Rare punishes streamers who called them out for not stopping harassment from their partners

[Nanners]

51 minutes ago, Spotty said:

I'd also like to point out that the twitter post from Rocco ranting about Pace is from July, and the stuff about Summit1G Kotaku mentions is from 2018 and maybe 2019. Yet for some reason Kotaku is writing an article about it in October...? Why?

Drag in a big streamer, have more people come to your website, more money.
The article itself shows there has been little to no time invested in looking for the whole picture but instead an article is created that would spark a bigger reaction.

[spartaman64]

37 minutes ago, Spotty said:

What's that comment from? Is that comment from someone associated with Pace directed at other SoT players/streamers?

I've received plenty of similar comments from other people in games before, including SoT. Often it's the annoying shouty 12 year old kids on xbox (SoT is crossplay PC & xbox). I just mute and report them. Kids being stupid isn't anything new. I really doubt that a full time streamer or "partner" will be making comments like that, but if they are then that should be addressed.

 

sorry it was an example from the community of a mmo i play of how people can be not related to this. i noticed that most of rocco's problems seems to be with pace's teammates rather than pace himself so I wonder if they are infamous in the community for being toxic and even one of pace's friends agree that beerlol and the other person goes too overboard. which leads me to believe this is true but ofc i dont play SoT so idk

 

rocco said that the mods deleted the messages and they tried contacting the mods for logs but they refused. 

 

and yeah i agree that beerlol being in the same discord as some harassers if its a public discord doesnt mean anything. there are lots of discords for my game that everyone is just in. but once again maybe hes a known toxic person who is likely to do that sort of thing

 

rocco did try to get it resolved privately it seems but decided to go public after starting to be ignored.

 

i feel like at least some of the harassers are pace's viewers and from this its seems unfair to blame him entirely but I think he could have issued a statement asking his viewers not to attack rocco. and streamer are responsible for some of the signals they send to their viewers intentional or not imo

 

also i think people do have a responsibility for who they support and associate with. i used to be sort of like a mascot for a big guild in the mmo i play but after hearing about them being toxic assholes i dropped my role and stopped associating with them. also as i said a lot of people dislike my gf and some of them happen to become friends with me before it comes up and i try to talk with them but if they dont see reason then i can't be friends with them

 

if the allegations against beerlol are true then if pace wants to not be associated with him then he shouldnt have him as a teammate. 

 

i agree going after pace is too zealous but i dont think they deserved to continue to be harassed or doxxed and pace doesnt seem to be interested in asking for it to be stopped and seems to want revenge. 

 

and yeah idk how summit fits into this probably as nanners said its trying to get more clicks on the article. summit played my mmo for a bit and most people had positive interactions with him.

[Nanners]

Pace always tells his viewers to not go to other streamers to start anything and doesn't tolerate any disrespect towards other streamers.

 

Go watch Pace sometime then you'll know he's one of the most chill streamers even when he has to deal with harassment aimed at him.

 

Pace doesn't wanna get involved in any drama so that's why he doesn't comment on anything like this.

 

Anyway this ain't tech news is it?

Unless it's about Kotaku baiting traffic which isn't new.

[Spotty]

1 hour ago, spartaman64 said:

and yeah idk how summit fits into this probably as nanners said its trying to get more clicks on the article. summit played my mmo for a bit and most people had positive interactions with him.

The summit1g issue that kotaku talks about is completely separate, and is discussing stuff that happened 2 years ago. Nothing to do with the "Rocco" streamer who was complaining about Pace. Summit1g has rarely even played Sea of Thieves in 2020. He used to stream it daily for about 6 months at the end of 2018 through to mid 2019 but then stopped playing and moved on to other games.

 

I'll try my best to summarise what Kotaku's issue with Summit1g was about.

game background...

Spoiler

 

SoT is a PvPvE game. There's a server with I think 5 or 6 ships on it. Ships can go around searching for treasure, doing puzzles, riddles, going on quests, fighting PvE skeletons. There's world events that bring other ships together such as PvE fort islands that contain loot that you can get by beating a few waves of skeletons and unlocking a vault. There's also PvP in that at any time other ships can attack you, sink your ship, and take your loot. When you get loot (treasure chests, gems, etc) you put it on your boat and take it to an outpost to sell ("turn in"). Anyone can turn in items, even if another ship found them. If you are a PvE player you can't just keep grinding quests to get a bunch of items as there's always the threat that another ship will see you have a bunch of valuable loot and attack you to try to take it. You can also "alliance" with other ships so that you fight together and you will share a cut of any loot ships in your alliance turn in.

 

When a crew/ship joins a server it just puts you in a random available server and you have no control over it. You can't pick to be on the same server that your friend is on.

 

There were a small number of heavy PvE focused players who would set up discord servers and they would lobby jump to get in to the same lobbies with their friends on different ships so that way they could take over the entire server with their friends, filling the ship cap for the server. If there were other players in the game they would gang up on them and harass them until they quit so they could get their friends in. Then once they had control of the server they would alliance all of the ships and then there would be no threat for PvP action as the server cap was filled with their friends - Effectively making a private PvE lobby where they could grind for loot endlessly. Whenever one person went offline someone else in the group would just take their spot and it will keep the ship on the server and they'll keep control of the server - potentially for days if they have enough people in their discord group keeping it alive.

 

This is obviously exploiting the server cap and a lot of PvP players didn't like that PvE players were exploiting this to play the game as PvE only.

 

 

Summit1g put out on Discord or twitter saying that he wanted people who were maybe in those discord groups that arrange those alliance servers to tip him off to the server or invite him in to their crew so that way he can get inside the server on a ship. The idea being he'd take the ship and then he'd be able to fight the other ships. This would mean that it would be his 1 ship vs an alliance of 4 or 5 other ships in a PvP battle. The PvE players didn't like this and complained that what he was doing was "stream sniping" or "meta gaming" by having people outside of the game tip him off to these servers and that people would invite him in to their "private" PvE servers.

Summit in his response video linked below makes a pretty good point that it was meta gaming what he was doing by asking viewers to find these servers for him, but it was also meta gaming what the PvE players were doing by arranging those PvE only servers.

 

 

The other thing that the kotaku article mentions is that Summit1g made statements that the game devs sucked during his streams playing the game. And yeah, he did. He complained about things he didn't like in the game or if there was a bug or something he would complain about it. But this is exactly the same things that other players were complaining about like hit reg (hits not registering correctly). Kotaku used this as an example of Summit1g being toxic

 

1 hour ago, spartaman64 said:

and yeah idk how summit fits into this probably as nanners said its trying to get more clicks on the article. summit played my mmo for a bit and most people had positive interactions with him.

I played SoT before and during the time Summit1g was streaming it and so many people joined the game because of Summit's streams. For months you could not join a public crew without someone asking if you watched summit1G's streams and talking about what they saw on his stream. Most people that I met like that were pretty cool, and some I went on to play other games with. So in my experience his viewers aren't toxic, but summit1G was getting 50k+ current viewers so there's bound to be some dicks in that crowd. Same with Pace's chat which has thousands of current viewers. Same with any streamers chat. There's no shortage of assholes in the world unfortunately.

 

 

It's pretty long, but here's a video reuploaded to youtube from Twitch stream of Summit1g's response to the kotaku article. He goes over the whole article and responds to all the stuff said about him.

 

 

So basically Kotaku are taking all these completely separate issues, some from years ago, and combining them in to this one story about "toxicity" in the game.

 

1 hour ago, spartaman64 said:

i feel like at least some of the harassers are pace's viewers and from this its seems unfair to blame him entirely but I think he could have issued a statement asking his viewers not to attack rocco. and streamer are responsible for some of the signals they send to their viewers intentional or not imo

I've watched a bit of Pace, and he has pretty strict no drama rules in his channel. He will not tolerate any drama with other streamers or people in his chat harassing other streamers. This isn't something recent after this blew up, this is something from back when I watched in 2018/2019. He definitely does not encourage or condone this behaviour on his streams from what I have seen. That's why this whole story of him harassing other streamers or sending his chat to harass them just doesn't add up to me.

[Brooksie359]

10 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

cry me a river: random guy on the internet knows where i live, so scared, much worry, wow

Tell that to the people who get swated and end up being shot by the police as a result because they got doxed. Having a group of people who are harassing you know your address is bad and people who think otherwise are naive. 

[Chett_Manly]

Where is a statement from the police? Where is a statement from their boss? Why should I believe these people?

 

I have to assume Kotaku did not bother to verify any of these claims because this is just a hit piece to get clicks and champion people who share their politics.

[ouroesa]

Quote

The couple had been the target of misogynistic and ableist abuse

Stopped reading after this as I associate these type of specific words with people looking to be victims most of the time (not to say that this doesn't happen but seems we are inventing new ways for people to be victims, how many times have you read about misandrists, bet most don't even know what that is). Are people being 'misogynistic and ableist' to a cat puppet? Really?These people should know that this is part and parcel of being a streamer, it's not right but it is what it is. Just ignore them and go on with your life, why drag the game makers into their schoolground streamer dramas?

[Thaldor]

This was kind of coming. The little I have played and read the SoT community the huge gap between PvE and PvP is probably biggest I have seen anywhere, and then they are put into the same sandbox. SoT being far from the only game with such problems within their community. You build a game that happens to get two very different communities and the game becomes successful and you try to balance those two communities without really separating them (partly because the one or other doesn't want them to be separated) and sooner or later that will explode.

 

Developers really can't do anything when that explosion happens because it goes so much over their influence and the real parties to get involved are cops, lawyers and other officials. They could have done something for it year or two ago (namely clearly separate the PvE and PvP) but that's kind of late now for a damage prevention and that is huge development question (not only that you are separating the game in two but you also need to separate a lot other resources to tend those parts of the game). There are other ways also that can be tended but even with them it is too late when things start to escalate (main thing is you need to separate those communities or find the middle ground that really suits them both, not to just tend the battlefield and try to bribe with new features and content one or the other or both sides to just stand the situation).

 

Spoiler

I was/am more PvE player and generally I try to steer off from games with "forced" PvP elements and you cannot avoid them clearly. I want to know what I'm going to get especially because I rather like playing alone (I am real dick when it comes to games, breaking the game can be the goal and finding out everything is the way, if there is a NPC saying I can't go to a dungeon because I'm too low level, I will go to that dungeon and, if I can kill the first 2 enemies, spend next hours trying to clear it one enemy at the time just because NPC said I can't do it, I take the scenic route just because awesome and take my time doing things majority of the gamers find too boring) and so SoT wasn't the game for me (although I got couple good laughs out when my ship filled with explosives blew up on someone who didn't like that someone elses ship blews up on them, nothing personal, mainly wanted to see how many explosives I can fit to the ship and it became a small habit of mine to collect explosives and couple times I blew them up when people came to steal from me, mostly I blew them up when I just got bored).

Personally I would have loved to see SoT being separated especially now later that I return to it and they really made the sea a lot more dangerous and the fleeing chances are still somewhat low if you don't spend half the time looking at the horizon and running away, abandoning your missions, when a sail is spotted and you know the white flag in your mast can mean you make new friends but just as well be an invitation to get robbed.

 

[AnonymousGuy]

7 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

This was kind of coming. The little I have played and read the SoT community the huge gap between PvE and PvP is probably biggest I have seen anywhere, and then they are put into the same sandbox. SoT being far from the only game with such problems within their community. You build a game that happens to get two very different communities and the game becomes successful and you try to balance those two communities without really separating them (partly because the one or other doesn't want them to be separated) and sooner or later that will explode.

 

Developers really can't do anything when that explosion happens because it goes so much over their influence and the real parties to get involved are cops, lawyers and other officials. They could have done something for it year or two ago (namely clearly separate the PvE and PvP) but that's kind of late now for a damage prevention and that is huge development question (not only that you are separating the game in two but you also need to separate a lot other resources to tend those parts of the game). There are other ways also that can be tended but even with them it is too late when things start to escalate (main thing is you need to separate those communities or find the middle ground that really suits them both, not to just tend the battlefield and try to bribe with new features and content one or the other or both sides to just stand the situation).

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I was/am more PvE player and generally I try to steer off from games with "forced" PvP elements and you cannot avoid them clearly. I want to know what I'm going to get especially because I rather like playing alone (I am real dick when it comes to games, breaking the game can be the goal and finding out everything is the way, if there is a NPC saying I can't go to a dungeon because I'm too low level, I will go to that dungeon and, if I can kill the first 2 enemies, spend next hours trying to clear it one enemy at the time just because NPC said I can't do it, I take the scenic route just because awesome and take my time doing things majority of the gamers find too boring) and so SoT wasn't the game for me (although I got couple good laughs out when my ship filled with explosives blew up on someone who didn't like that someone elses ship blews up on them, nothing personal, mainly wanted to see how many explosives I can fit to the ship and it became a small habit of mine to collect explosives and couple times I blew them up when people came to steal from me, mostly I blew them up when I just got bored).

Personally I would have loved to see SoT being separated especially now later that I return to it and they really made the sea a lot more dangerous and the fleeing chances are still somewhat low if you don't spend half the time looking at the horizon and running away, abandoning your missions, when a sail is spotted and you know the white flag in your mast can mean you make new friends but just as well be an invitation to get robbed.

 

Why don't PVE players just quit the game?  I quit playing The Division because it basically forced you into PVP if you wanted any shot at good loot.  Shame too because the game was genuinely fun if you teamed up with other people to go do missions but it was just too damn broken if some nerd with 1000 hours in the game decided to shit on everyone.

[Arika]

This is why i rarely play multiplayer games anymore, and if i do, i disable in-game chat and voice. 

[Thaldor]

6 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Why don't PVE players just quit the game?  I quit playing The Division because it basically forced you into PVP if you wanted any shot at good loot.  Shame too because the game was genuinely fun if you teamed up with other people to go do missions but it was just too damn broken if some nerd with 1000 hours in the game decided to shit on everyone.

Probably because the game is extremely popular (still one of the most streamed games currently) and it doesn't only promise something for the PvE players but even has a lot to offer for them. Hopefully most of the PvE players quit quite soon (soon enough to get their refunds) but a lot of popularity means a lot of players which turns into a lot of leftovers who decide to take the stance and when their voices aren't heard, they start to take actions if there's possibility for that (as SoT has in form of server takeover). But probably mostly this whole thing stirs in the community that is either too hopeful or too dense to leave the game (or they have some other reasons) and then start to be toxic.

But most probably the thing is, the game just has too much to offer for PvE players who see that and when the PvP players come around and play their game, the PvE players forget that "don't hate the player" and rather than being mature and leaving the game they lash out to the PvP players for "ruining" their game. Devs on the other hand don't make things any easier by aiming most of the updates to the PvE side almost like fueling the fire (AFAIK all new content since launch is more or less bound to PvE aspect as in new quests and loots don't just spawn in to the players ships) by adding more content for the PvE.

But really, who knows. People are stupid.

[Taf the Ghost]

19 hours ago, Nanners said:

Drag in a big streamer, have more people come to your website, more money.
The article itself shows there has been little to no time invested in looking for the whole picture but instead an article is created that would spark a bigger reaction.

Kotaku is an "agenda journalism" outfit, so it's not just traffic. It's influence/effect they're after. We also don't know who put them up to writing the story. It's a hit/smear piece of a fairly low order. Frankly, at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they have a quota for their attack pieces accusing group X of heinous action Y with little actual proof.

 

@Spotty good work on this one. "Rocco" came off poorly in the article, but your analysis is about what I would have expected. A lot of things go smoother when you don't start by slandering someone. Most don't take kindly to it.