AMD Ryzen 5000-series “Vermeer Zen 3" CPU Benchmarks Leaked (Update 2)

[AndreiArgeanu]

On 9/29/2020 at 9:35 PM, Shimejii said:

What matters is All core performance

Only outside of games, speaking strictly gaming, 2-4 core boost clock is what matters most for now in a lot of games, though hopefully developers will build in support for 8 core cpu's, I'm not even sure why is it taking them so long considering that that consoles since 2013 have been running 8 core x86 cpus. Not to mention that ryzen doesn't have hardware limits when it comes to boost clocks like Intel. Most cpu's will do their advertised boost clock on all cores if the cooling is adequate.

[AndreiArgeanu]

On 9/29/2020 at 9:38 PM, ONOTech said:

When I read 5 GHz, I don't think all-core. I'm thinking maybe 1-2 cores boost. It's not unreasonable, but I'm gonna wait and see. I don't think anyone should expect 5 GHz all core lol

Most likely, but AMD doesn't have hardware limits to boost clock like intel does, so depenending on how good the die is and the temperatures it will boost higher. Where for example the 10700k from Intel will turbo down to 4700mhz if more than 1 core is used regardles of thermal head room.

[AndreiArgeanu]

I don't want to get hyped up to get dissapointed, but this does look really promising, especially considering that Intel is STILL struggling with their 10nm node as it is. I'm really happy to have seen and to see AMD beat Intel so much lately, they fully deserve it for holding back progress and taking advantage of a lack of competition. Of course I don't want Intel to dissapear, but I do want them to do better, you know, perhaps make the k series dissapear and make every cpu oc'able, and make B-series chipsets capable of overclockable, and making all chipsets XMP compatible, but looking at their stubborness, they're really stuck on the idea of charging more on chipsets and cpu's for OC capabilities.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

13 minutes ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

I don't want to get hyped up to get dissapointed, but this does look really promising, especially considering that Intel is STILL struggling with their 10nm node as it is. I'm really happy to have seen and to see AMD beat Intel so much lately, they fully deserve it for holding back progress and taking advantage of a lack of competition. Of course I don't want Intel to dissapear, but I do want them to do better, you know, perhaps make the k series dissapear and make every cpu oc'able, and make B-series chipsets capable of overclockable, and making all chipsets XMP compatible, but looking at their stubborness, they're really stuck on the idea of charging more on chipsets and cpu's for OC capabilities.

iirc some gigabyte b series can oc

[paperbagperson]

On 9/29/2020 at 5:21 PM, HelpfulTechWizard said:

I think I hear the cries of Intel stock holders

 

And the cheers of AMD's stock holders. Apparently one of my friend's co-workers bought a bunch AMD stocks when they were $2 or something

 

I'm very hype for zen 3, I'm hoping this is the generation where I can actually build a PC.

[Ginger Penguin]

27 minutes ago, paperbagperson said:

And the cheers of AMD's stock holders. Apparently one of my friend's co-workers bought a bunch AMD stocks when they were $2 or something

 

I'm very hype for zen 3, I'm hoping this is the generation where I can actually build a PC.

I bought some stocks in about April this year and thought about buying some AMD but I figured their peak around the 4000 series launch was probably all it was going to get back to and not worth the risk. Just looked again now and really wish I'd bought them.

 

But I'm in the same boat. I've been on laptops for a while and I'd really like to have that be supplemental to a desktop now and my plan is probably for 5900X + 3060 (most of my stuff is CPU-heavy but a bit of GPU brunt is helpful in Davinci Resolve at least). I'm a little concerned that I'm buying in at the end of AM4's life so I won't just be able to swap out a CPU in a generation or two but I kinda feel that setup's likely to stack up for a fair while at least. I'm looking forward to a week from now for sure.

[Justaphysicsnerd]

On 9/30/2020 at 1:34 AM, BiG StroOnZ said:

The lineup should now be less confusing for consumers.

uuuh,.....What about when they launch Zen 3 on Laptops what will they call it 6000-series and then the desktop Zen 3 refresh or Zen 4 or whatever will be 7000-series or 6000 series ?

[Craftyawesome]

1 hour ago, Justaphysicsnerd said:

uuuh,.....What about when they launch Zen 3 on Laptops what will they call it 6000-series and then the desktop Zen 3 refresh or Zen 4 or whatever will be 7000-series or 6000 series ?

Currently, zen 2 parts are 3000 series on desktop, but 4000 series on mobile/APU. Desktop will skip 4000 to match all zen 3 parts to 5000 series.

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, Craftyawesome said:

Currently, zen 2 parts are 3000 series on desktop, but 4000 series on mobile/APU. Desktop will skip 4000 to match all zen 3 parts to 5000 series.

Yep. As I understand it AMD is giving up the generation late for apu thing.  It’s a good move imho.  It was pretty obnoxious.

[Stahlmann]

31 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Yep. As I understand it AMD is giving up the generation late for apu thing.  It’s a good move imho.  It was pretty obnoxious.

Still: Zen3 = Ryzen 4th Gen = Ryzen 5000

 

For anyone not really in touch with all that's going on in the tech world this can be extremely confusing...

[Bombastinator]

5 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

Still: Zen3 = Ryzen 4th Gen = Ryzen 5000

 

For anyone not really in touch with all that's going on in the tech world this can be extremely confusing...

Earlier situation  was even worse though.  A mess years in the making.

[Rym]

I could always welcome more gaming performance than the i9, not being able to quickly buy my new PC might end up being a blessing.

[Stahlmann]

5 hours ago, Rym said:

I could always welcome more gaming performance than the i9, not being able to quickly buy my new PC might end up being a blessing.

Seeing as the current RTX launch is going you might not even be able to buy a new Zen3 CPU in the near future, even with it launching this month. Probably most of the inventory will instantly move over to ebay again.

[cj09beira]

21 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

What they apparently really really should have done is call their 3400g what it really was in the first place which was a 2400g this made the 4xxxg chips really 3xxxG chips.  A 4800h/u is really a voltage dropped 3700x with a Vega gpu attached.

 

The number change is apparently a way to erase old marketing sins because they can’t turn back time to do it right in the first place.  More evidence that marketing departments in general is suspect and need to be treated like weasels.  

things arent that simple had they done what you say for most of the apus product life it would be sold along side a desktop series with the next up series naming eg: 2000 series apu with 3000 series desktop cpus, to the normies that is much more confusing than keeping the naming the same across both lines even if they dont share the same architecture.

and there is a good chance the reason they are able to change that now is they will release the apus much closer to the launch of the desktop series than before (used to be one year lag between architectures on desktop until they reached the mobile market)

6 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Earlier situation  was even worse though.  A mess years in the making.

was it though?, only if you were looking at what was inside the cpus (which architecture), if you went for what is the lattest product, it was fairly simple as both the desktop cpus and apus were on the same series (for most of the product cycle anyway)

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, cj09beira said:

things arent that simple had they done what you say for most of the apus product life it would be sold along side a desktop series with the next up series naming eg: 2000 series apu with 3000 series desktop cpus, to the normies that is much more confusing than keeping the naming the same across both lines even if they dont share the same architecture.

and there is a good chance the reason they are able to change that now is they will release the apus much closer to the launch of the desktop series than before (used to be one year lag between architectures on desktop until they reached the mobile market)

was it though?, only if you were looking at what was inside the cpus (which architecture), if you went for what is the lattest product, it was fairly simple as both the desktop cpus and apus were on the same series (for most of the product cycle anyway)

It does depend on whether one is more interested in what is new than what something actually does.  If one treat them the same and compares performance afterwards, the problem became one of creating the assumption that APUs just suck compared to equivalent CPUs. 

[porina]

1 hour ago, Stahlmann said:

Seeing as the current RTX launch is going you might not even be able to buy a new Zen3 CPU in the near future, even with it launching this month. Probably most of the inventory will instantly move over to ebay again.

We don't know for sure it will sell this month, only that the announce is next week. I don't recall how big a gap there was for Zen 2 between announce and shipping date.

 

Also, while I have no doubt that Zen 3 will be a good improvement on Zen 2, it isn't going to be as big a performance jump as we're seeing on GPU side. I'd guess we'll see similar to before. There may be shortages, particularly early on (like first week or so), and/or for higher end parts, but there wont be the same lack of availability as we saw with the 30 series launch.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

7 minutes ago, porina said:

We don't know for sure it will sell this month, only that the announce is next week. I don't recall how big a gap there was for Zen 2 between announce and shipping date.

 

Also, while I have no doubt that Zen 3 will be a good improvement on Zen 2, it isn't going to be as big a performance jump as we're seeing on GPU side. I'd guess we'll see similar to before. There may be shortages, particularly early on (like first week or so), and/or for higher end parts, but there wont be the same lack of availability as we saw with the 30 series launch.

Hardware Unboxed thinks its going to be either the 20th or 27th for zen 3. It was on the newest news vid from them.

[Bombastinator]

38 minutes ago, porina said:

We don't know for sure it will sell this month, only that the announce is next week. I don't recall how big a gap there was for Zen 2 between announce and shipping date.

 

Also, while I have no doubt that Zen 3 will be a good improvement on Zen 2, it isn't going to be as big a performance jump as we're seeing on GPU side. I'd guess we'll see similar to before. There may be shortages, particularly early on (like first week or so), and/or for higher end parts, but there wont be the same lack of availability as we saw with the 30 series launch.

Assumes the 30xx launch was an edge case.  It’s an issue of maybe vs will.  Whether the 30xx launch was an edge case or a trend created by new tech and new sales systems is currently unknown.  One would think that the capacity of scammers and scalpers is finite, and that by overwhelming that capacity with product quantity one could destroy their effect.  It’s unknown though.  Part of the problem is how successful the scalpers were is unknown.  If they made money they’ll do it again.  If they took a bath they still might do it again. The number of bad actors in the next iteration could be larger.  It’s critical that in the next release iteration for the sakes of producers, consumers, and the current business model, the scalpers need to be utterly crushed and forced to tremendous losses.  Apparently some business model systems are already being changed to increase losses and reduce profit for scalpers.  To what degree I do not know. 

[porina]

36 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Assumes the 30xx launch was an edge case.

Of course I can only speculate as good as the next person, but the 30 series was a significant upgrade for potential buyers. If you're on Pascal or older, regardless of the exact number, it is a big improvement for something more than a couple years old.

 

Zen 3 will be an improvement, but it isn't that big relatively speaking. A solid update, but it isn't going to have as much impact for people. Ampere essentially destroyed the value of older nvidia cards. Zen 3 will not do that to Zen 2. I think the navi announce will be more important (short term) than Zen 3.

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, Escanor said:

Im looking forward to this

I want the weakest thing that can play whatever the consoles can.  I might be buying a 3700x.  I personally don’t trust the 3600x to do it, though there was a point that it looked pretty probable.  I’m both funds locked and information locked at the moment though, and there’s no real point in updating my rig piecemeal, so I’m locked down at least till I know what is in the consoles. 

[pas008]

6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I want the weakest thing that can play whatever the consoles can.  I might be buying a 3700x.  I personally don’t trust the 3600x to do it, though there was a point that it looked pretty probable.  I’m both funds locked and information locked at the moment though, and there’s no real point in updating my rig piecemeal, so I’m locked down at least till I know what is in the consoles. 

if playing 4k like newere consoles are aiming at seems like all cpus are pretty close

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-3900xt/21.html

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, pas008 said:

if playing 4k like newere consoles are aiming at seems like all cpus are pretty close

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-3900xt/21.html

I’m worried about thread count.  From what I can tell The jaguar2 bears certain similarities to a 2700x or 3700x.  There was a point where it was more 1700x and I thought a 3600x or even a 2600x might do it because they had more single core speed.  That advantage seems to have dropped away though.  Predictions of jaguar2 performance were 7/14@2.5ghz but have gone up to 8/15@3.8ghz. So 8/16@3.8ghz still whups it.

[Craftyawesome]

5 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

I’m worried about thread count.  From what I can tell The jaguar2 bears certain similarities to a 2700x or 3700x.  There was a point where it was more 1700x and I thought a 3600x or even a 2600x might do it because they had more single core speed.  That advantage seems to have dropped away though.  Predictions of jaguar2 performance were 7/14@2.5ghz but have gone up to 8/15@3.8ghz. So 8/16@3.8ghz still whups it.

As in the Series X CPU? It's Zen 2 8c8t @ 3.8 or 8c16t @ 3.6 (-1 core dedicated for os) (source). AFAIK the unknowns are things like cache, CCX configuration, and how Zen 2 performs with GDDR6.

[porina]

4 hours ago, Craftyawesome said:

As in the Series X CPU? It's Zen 2 8c8t @ 3.8 or 8c16t @ 3.6 (-1 core dedicated for os) (source). AFAIK the unknowns are things like cache, CCX configuration, and how Zen 2 performs with GDDR6.

CCX configuration is extremely unlikely to be any different from existing Zen 2 with 4 cores in each. Cache is anyone's guess. They could go for the same amount as desktop CPUs, or a smaller quantity like APUs if they want to use the die area it would have consumed for other uses. It is quite possible to see great performance for ram bandwidth sensitive workloads if the GPU isn't running heavility at the same time. In games, there'll have to be sharing which could impact performance. I don't understand their two tier ram speed though.

[DaRk0]

On 9/29/2020 at 10:54 PM, FloRolf said:

Meanwhile my 3900X heats up like a motherf#cker with a 240 AIO. Maybe it's just my Chip but I really wouldn't want another 50% power pumping through my sad loop. 

Really? That's a bit odd.

 

I have 1920x with Be quiet dark rock TR and temps are fine. Gets a bit warm on load, but nothing to worry about.