Facebook may have to stop serving Europe if data protection ruling is enforced

[SupaKomputa]

9 hours ago, Gamer Schnitzel said:

Most European countries don't use it. Most people who use it are old people who try to stay in touch.

People that use Facebook are late tech adopters, you buy a phone, the first thing you do is to get a FB account.

Young people adopt tech faster than older people. They are already on a Iphone / Android, while the older people still stuck with their blackberries.

Now their BB are dead, they have no choice but to use touch screen phone, which they scared them to death for the lack of tactile response.

Now that they've mastered touch control their FB group become boring, and found out that group chat is a more effective way to communicate with their friends.

[pythonmegapixel]

5 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

yes, not giving my data to the corrupt, hypocrite and unlawful us government, a consequence I could live with.

Personally I share your point of view.

However many people have data tied up in Facebook platforms that they really don't want to lose. This is what I mean by massive consequences. Not necessarily for you, but for society as a whole.

[Kisai]

11 hours ago, pythonmegapixel said:

 

My thoughts

I hate Facebook, but there's no denying that their withdrawal from the EU would have massive consequences. So many people - probably rather naively, not that much can be done about that - have developed a reliance on them for whatever reason, and they may have precious data tied up in their services, which they don't know what to do with.

 

 

I hate facebook, and refuse to use it except for the barest minimum "check if family is doing okay" bit.

 

Twitter and Facebook feel like polar opposites of how they protect privacy. Facebook feels like like an endless timesuck of people you don't really have an invested interest in, showing you things you might have cared about if you were actually friends with them. Twitter on the other hand is less of a timesuck because following people on twitter is not a life changing decision like facebook is. If someone decides to just drop off twitter, MOST of the followers won't even notice. But drop off facebook after you've been posting daily nonsense and people who actually care about you will take notice. 

 

Between the two, you have to draw a line when your personal privacy is more important than reposting memes.

 

The GDPR has basically made advertising toothless and has ruined pretty much every website in existence with endless "this site uses cookies" garbage. So if Facebook can't figure out how to operate in the EU, then just slam the door and let the users protest in their countries.

[Donut417]

6 hours ago, thechinchinsong said:

Are you implying that countries that rely on the US shouldn't seek to reduce their dependence on the US, especially if said countries find that their citizens' rights are being violated by a foreign country spying on them through a corporate entity?

No what I am say, its dont bite the hand that feeds you. This is not the ONLY US company the EU seems to have issues with. Its almost as they are targeting American companies because they dont like America. The fact is we have troops in the EU to help protect the EU, and I know that we have provided financial assistance, we also help provide funding for NATO. Lots of American blood has been spilled to keep Europe free, WW1 and WW2 come to mind. The other fact is that tooo much regulation strangles companies. Which then gives less incentive for companies to continue investing. When that happens the market stagnates. Also, no offense if your data is freely available on Facebook, then you have NO expectation of privacy. Its like walking down the street and having issues with being on surveillance cameras, when your in a pubic place you cant expect to have privacy. 

 

6 hours ago, thechinchinsong said:

Of course since the US has the largest military in the world

Ummmm. North Korea has a larger military than us. China most defiantly has more men than any other country. We have one of the most advanced militaries in the world. We also have the ability to move men and materials quickly.

 

6 hours ago, thechinchinsong said:

Yeah, jk that only happens with bad countries like Russia and China and bad companies like Tik-Tok and Huawei right?

You dont know how to read between the lines. The issues with China have nothing to deal with spying. It started as a trade war, it has escalated because neither side wants to back down. As far as Russia is concerned, we know for a fact they are trying to influence the election. But the fact of the matter is, Russia has pretty much been our adversary since the end of WW2. Just because we are not actively pointing nukes at each other doesn't mean we are friends, it just means that tensions are not as high as they were during the Cold War. 

 

 

[Bombastinator]

4 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

No what I am say, its dont bite the hand that feeds you. This is not the ONLY US company the EU seems to have issues with. Its almost as they are targeting American companies because they dont like America. The fact is we have troops in the EU to help protect the EU, and I know that we have provided financial assistance, we also help provide funding for NATO. Lots of American blood has been spilled to keep Europe free, WW1 and WW2 come to mind. The other fact is that tooo much regulation strangles companies. Which then gives less incentive for companies to continue investing. When that happens the market stagnates. Also, no offense if your data is freely available on Facebook, then you have NO expectation of privacy. Its like walking down the street and having issues with being on surveillance cameras, when your in a pubic place you cant expect to have privacy. 

 

Ummmm. North Korea has a larger military than us. China most defiantly has more men than any other country. We have one of the most advanced militaries in the world. We also have the ability to move men and materials quickly.

 

You dont know how to read between the lines. The issues with China have nothing to deal with spying. It started as a trade war, it has escalated because neither side wants to back down. As far as Russia is concerned, we know for a fact they are trying to influence the election. But the fact of the matter is, Russia has pretty much been our adversary since the end of WW2. Just because we are not actively pointing nukes at each other doesn't mean we are friends, it just means that tensions are not as high as they were during the Cold War. 

 

 

And US approval has gone from 70% approval to 20% approval since 2016.   That 20% number is actually still fairly high world wide.  It’s that bad.  One reason for that.

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

And US approval has gone from 70% approval to 20% approval since 2016.   That 20% number is actually still fairly high world wide.  It’s that bad.  One reason for that.

Well first of all that problem could be fixed in November. Secondly Russia needs to butt the hell out of our elections. 3rd the EU is challenging the US, that may not end well. I dont know what our trade agreements are like but we could always start another trade war. Yeah it might hurt the US to an extent. But this could push manufacturing and other jobs back in to the US. The thing is the US has a tendency to hold grudges, when/if Europe ever needs the US, the US might not be there for them, not like in the past. 

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Well first of all that problem could be fixed in November. Secondly Russia needs to butt the hell out of our elections. 3rd the EU is challenging the US, that may not end well. I dont know what our trade agreements are like but we could always start another trade war. Yeah it might hurt the US to an extent. But this could push manufacturing and other jobs back in to the US. The thing is the US has a tendency to hold grudges, when/if Europe ever needs the US, the US might not be there for them, not like in the past. 

Won’t pop back to 70% just because of an election.  Everyone has a tendency to hold grudges. Real damage was done.

[Donut417]

Just now, Bombastinator said:

 Everyone has a tendency to hold grudges. Real damage was done.

Just means when they start another world war over there we dont have to come in a save the day. We can just watch them burn like that have watched us burn for the last 4 years. 

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Just means when they start another world war over there we dont have to come in a save the day. We can just watch them burn like that have watched us burn for the last 4 years. 

Goes both ways and the EU is a lot less likely to start a war than the US

[Rauten]

Fellow European here, saying: do it. DO IT. DOOOOOOOOO EEEEEEEEEETTTTTT!!!!

[Mark Kaine]

5 hours ago, pythonmegapixel said:

Personally I share your point of view.

However many people have data tied up in Facebook platforms that they really don't want to lose. This is what I mean by massive consequences. Not necessarily for you, but for society as a whole.

well yes sure but they could then surely transfer or download that data that's important for them. of course it would be a change but it wouldn't necessarily mean people would lose things either. I get what you're saying but from my point of view it indeed shouldn't be a big problem more like a nuisance.

 

19 minutes ago, Rauten said:

Fellow European here, saying: do it. DO IT

 

heh, that's the hilarious part about this all, "IF Ireland enforces the rules..."  how is that even a question lol 

[Donut417]

33 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Goes both ways and the EU is a lot less likely to start a war than the US

History doesn’t lie. Both world wars started in Europe. It’s not secret that Russia has been wanting to expand. I forget what country but they are current eying one of the former Soviet Republics. That in its self could lead to conflict. I for one say we need to pull out of NATO, pull out all of our troops. Let’s Europe be Europe’s problem. 

[Bombastinator]

Just now, Donut417 said:

History doesn’t lie. Both world wars started in Europe. It’s not secret that Russia has been wanting to expand. I forget what country but they are current eying one of the former Soviet Republics. That in its self could lead to conflict. I for one say we need to pull out of NATO, pull out all of our troops. Let’s Europe be Europe’s problem. 

Different issue.  I agree that the original purpose of nato is gone and has been for some time.  That’s not what the issue was about though. 

[Doobeedoo]

They may not be able to operate in EU yeah ok more lile they don't want to then. Making it like a subtle threat ahaha. Boohoo. 

[thechinchinsong]

3 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Ummmm. North Korea has a larger military than us. China most defiantly has more men than any other country. We have one of the most advanced militaries in the world. We also have the ability to move men and materials quickly.

True, you're right, what I meant was most powerful, not largest. Another way to put is is most expensive.

3 hours ago, Donut417 said:

No what I am say, its dont bite the hand that feeds you. This is not the ONLY US company the EU seems to have issues with. Its almost as they are targeting American companies because they dont like America. The fact is we have troops in the EU to help protect the EU, and I know that we have provided financial assistance, we also help provide funding for NATO. Lots of American blood has been spilled to keep Europe free, WW1 and WW2 come to mind. The other fact is that tooo much regulation strangles companies. Which then gives less incentive for companies to continue investing. When that happens the market stagnates. Also, no offense if your data is freely available on Facebook, then you have NO expectation of privacy. Its like walking down the street and having issues with being on surveillance cameras, when your in a pubic place you cant expect to have privacy. 

Yeah, don't bite the hand that feeds you is true, but maybe because multiple US companies violate EU laws. Yes, the Facebook terms of service clearly state you have no privacy, but maybe the FaceBook TOS needs to actually follow EU regulations. You might have a certain perspective of how competition and corporations should be run in the US, but when you cater to the international market, you need to make sure to follow the culture and the laws of the places you reach. We can argue all day about regulation and capitalism, but in the end, the laws in the EU are simply catering to a different society than in the US and if companies can't respect that, then maybe said companies need to think a little harder. Just cause Facebook has TOS doesn't mean shit. I can say in my TOS that I literally own you as a person, but that doesn't make it moral, ethical, or even legal. If you put it that way, France helped the US win independence and the US spat in France's face when repaying the debt. Should the US still allow French companies to have free reign over US citizen rights? Yeah, I agree that NATO countries other than the US mostly don't do shit regarding their military, but should military alliance be allowed to dictate the enforcement of laws in another country? Maybe the US got too used to occupying a foreign nation and forcing their ideals on them over the past couple of decades. One would have hoped the Middle East would've taught us something, but I guess it really hasn't. Maybe Japan and Germany would be an example of successful US occupation?

3 hours ago, Donut417 said:

You dont know how to read between the lines. The issues with China have nothing to deal with spying. It started as a trade war, it has escalated because neither side wants to back down. As far as Russia is concerned, we know for a fact they are trying to influence the election. But the fact of the matter is, Russia has pretty much been our adversary since the end of WW2. Just because we are not actively pointing nukes at each other doesn't mean we are friends, it just means that tensions are not as high as they were during the Cold War. 

Eh, Russia I can understand blacklisting the hell out of them since all their companies are explicitly linked with the Russian oligarchs in charge TBH. For China, I can actually see much of the same. Yes Chinese companies are essentially an extension of the CCP, but saying that blacklisting Chinese companies simply due to the trade war isn't quite the whole story. Yeah, tariffs against imports and exports would have been a given so I can see Huawei being affected but do you know the main stated reason for Huawei and Tik-Tok being banned? Certainly not due to the amount they contribute to the US trade imbalance with China. It was stated that the reasons for banning those companies was due to national security. I'm curious to think how one would even put tariffs against companies like We-chat and Tik-Tok. Tax 10 cents every post/message coming from China into the US lol? I would have been fine with Chinese company bans if the US put out some actual findings about security problems, but every-time I search for it, can't seem to find any information coming from official US government sources. What I can find is US companies with backdoors and security issues due to US government pushing less secure encryption and built in NSA backdoors. But of course, China is worse so we can ignore the US government, since it is the protagonist of the world after all.

[CTR640]

Yes please, enforce it! Seriously, fuck Facebook!

[Sauron]

Time to do some backseat engineering...

 

I'm assuming the law doesn't apply to public information on your profile; in that case facebook can operate across continents in exactly the same way by populating your feed with your friends PUBLIC posts. The only difference would be that your shadow profile would only be accessible from within the EU and therefore only be available to EU based advertisers. I don't see the problem outside of the reduced potential for data exploitation.

[Kisai]

3 hours ago, Donut417 said:

History doesn’t lie. Both world wars started in Europe. It’s not secret that Russia has been wanting to expand. I forget what country but they are current eying one of the former Soviet Republics. That in its self could lead to conflict. I for one say we need to pull out of NATO, pull out all of our troops. Let’s Europe be Europe’s problem. 

Both "world wars" were started by Germany, but the second one was a consequence of the first one. If you know your world history, there have been more deadly wars than WWI in China.

 

"Let Europe be Europe's problem" is a completely ignorant point of view because that removes American influence, and without that, Europe is more heavily influence by Russia, and as we've seen with Crimea, absolutely toothless to do anything to Russia. Likewise in Asia, if the US withdraws all it's troops from Korea, DPRK would absolutely invade, and if withdrawn from Japan, Japan would have to re-militarize, which would destabilize the region further, in favor of China.

 

If America doesn't want to play Hero anymore, and leave these countries to their own demise, that is completely ignoring what happened in the time between WWI and WWII.

 

Having virtual wars over the internet, will just further balkanize the internet, which China does, and Russia has said it's capable of doing. If you think geofences to watch Netflix are annoying, just wait until the connections to/from certain countries have access controls that prohibit any communication with countries that don't pay for access.

 

[Loote]

I fail to see any value in Facebook, sure, many restaurants and other small companies operate purely on FB, that's why I avoid them, that site is simply making my head hurt and I hate every second there. Messenger is inferior to normal xmpp, their restaurant pages are useless, the frontpage is so bad it's not even funny, what I'm saying is, from my personal POV it wouldn't be a loss at all and hopefully move people to other, better pages.
Also, the law is the law, however absurd it'd be, and FB being used by people of all ages would mean a simple DNS change or VPN is beyond most of its users, so it's probably quite easy to reach critical mass of people unable to use it for the change to start.

I firmly believe Facebook will die out sooner or later, it's already become a boomer site, it is doomed even if they sort out the stuff with EU.

[pythonmegapixel]

2 minutes ago, Loote said:

that site is simply making my head hurt and I hate every second there, their restaurant pages are useless, the frontpage is so bad it's not even funny

That's not even the problem I have. The problem is all the "SIGN UP TO SEE MORE" prompts.

That would be fine if I was actually trying to use Facebook... but I don't want to be using Facebook; often I'm forced to.

[jagdtigger]

I can already hear the uproar from smombies and FB addicts.....

[SpaceGhostC2C]

23 hours ago, pythonmegapixel said:

Do the technically correct thing and enforce the ruling, and lose Facebook.

... and the downside?

[pythonmegapixel]

13 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

... and the downside?

Nothing, for you and me.

 

But thousands of people who have relied, perhaps naïvely, on Facebook to store memories, to run their business, or to keep contact with others, could find all of that wiped up.

[kaylexmorgana]

23 hours ago, SupaKomputa said:

The WWW world can flip in a moment. Just look at myspace downfall or the rise of tiktok.

TikTok becomes a giant in less than a year.

Lol really? No way you can actually believe that.

That a no name social media site can take over Facebook and Twitter. Never going to happen. 

[pythonmegapixel]

1 minute ago, kaylexmorgana said:

Lol really? No way you can actually believe that.

That a no name social media site can take over Facebook and Twitter. Never going to happen. 

Well they kinda have... Facebook and Twitter really have little to no appeal among younger generations anymore.

Facebook, being a huge company, cleverly snapped up Instagram and Snapchat.  But I reckon even if they hadn't, those two platforms would have beaten them.

 

Besides, Facebook comes from a time before mobile platforms were widespread, so it will naturally be less attractive in modern situations than Instagram and Snapchat, which were designed from the ground up for mobile devices.