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Facebook may have to stop serving Europe if data protection ruling is enforced

pythonmegapixel
By pythonmegapixel
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Summary

In July, a European Union court ruled that Facebook must stop storing European user data in the US, after it found that Facebook had insufficient guards against snooping by US intelligence. A spokesperson for Facebook has stated that if Ireland - where the European arm of Facebook is based - decides to enforce this ruling, they may be unable to operate in Europe.

 

Quotes

From https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/sep/22/facebook-says-it-may-quit-europe-over-ban-on-sharing-data-with-us:

Quote

“In the event that [Facebook] were subject to a complete suspension of the transfer of users’ data to the US,” Yvonne Cunnane argued, “it is not clear … how, in those circumstances, it could continue to provide the Facebook and Instagram services in the EU.”

 

Facebook denied the filing was a threat, arguing in a statement that it was a simple reflection of reality.

The filing is the latest volley in a legal battle that has lasted almost a decade. In 2011, Max Schrems, an Austrian lawyer, began filing privacy complaints with the Irish data protection commissioner, which regulates Facebook in the EU, about the social network’s practices.

Those complaints gathered momentum two years later, when the Guardian revealed the NSA’s Prism program, a vast surveillance operation involving direct access to the systems of Google, Facebook, Apple and other US internet companies. Schrems filed a further privacy complaint, which was eventually referred to the European court of justice.

That court found in 2015 that, because of the existence of Prism, the “Safe Harbour” agreement, which allowed US companies to transfer the data of EU citizens back home, was invalid.

The EU then attempted a second legal agreement for the data transfers, a so-called privacy shield; that too was invalidated in July this year, with the court again ruling that the US does not limit surveillance of EU citizens.

In September, the Irish data protection commissioner began the process of enforcing that ruling. The commissioner issued a preliminary order compelling the social network to suspend data transfers overseas.

 

 

From https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/facebook-fears-its-social-media-platform-could-be-wiped-out-in-europe-amid-high-stakes-data-case-39546362.html:

Quote

A senior Facebook executive has signalled it may not be able to continue providing social media services in Europe if it is forced to suspend the transfer of data to the US.

 

In an affidavit, Facebook Ireland’s head of data protection and privacy Yvonne Cunnane said it was “not clear” how it could continue to provide Facebook and Instagram.

 

She said there would be “significant” and “wide-ranging” consequences, not just for the social media giant, but for businesses across Europe.

 

The claims were made in a legal filing as part of Facebook’s challenge to a preliminary order from Ireland’s Data Protection Commission (DPC) requiring it to stop transferring the data of EU users to the US.

 

 

My thoughts

I hate Facebook, but there's no denying that their withdrawal from the EU would have massive consequences. So many people - probably rather naively, not that much can be done about that - have developed a reliance on them for whatever reason, and they may have precious data tied up in their services, which they don't know what to do with.

 

Facebook assure us that they aren't trying to use this as a political threat, but even if unintentionally, I believe they are holding the regulators hostage here. Do the technically correct thing and enforce the ruling, and lose Facebook. Or turn a blind eye, and avert all of that.

 

However, overall I believe that not enforcing this ruling would set a dangerous precident. We cannot really afford to give enormous corporations any more control over our lives, and allowing them to ignore regulations is a good way to give them that control.

 

It is my suspicion however that nothing will come of this whatever happens. Either the regulator turns a blind eye, or Facebook implements systems to keep European data in European data centres. I think Europe is probably too valuable for them to just abandon.

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pythonmegapixel

into tech, public transport and architecture // amateur programmer // youtuber // beginner photographer

Thanks for reading all this by the way!

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Depending on how damaging the loss of Facebook will be, I believe the likely outcome is for Facebook to build out servers in the EU, perhaps even at a subsidy. 
 

Though this could also provide an opportunity for a competitor to take hold if EU governments were willing to eat the civilian backlash and kick Facebook out. Though it will take years for a competitor to get up to par. 

My eyes see the past…

My camera lens sees the present…

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5 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Though it will take years for a competitor to get up to par. 

The WWW world can flip in a moment. Just look at myspace downfall or the rise of tiktok.

TikTok becomes a giant in less than a year.

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Knowing Facebook they had a solution months ago and aren't concerned. People often forget Fortune 100 companies employee some of the most brilliant minds of the modern world. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted

I vote for it to be enforced.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. 
It matters that you don't just give up.”

-Stephen Hawking

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fb is the most useless app and should have been illegal from the get go 

 

So my reaction is:  GOOD!

 

 

The direction tells you... the direction. 

-Scott Manley, 2021

 

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Alright, Facebook, it's time to settle this once and for all!

 

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1 hour ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Depending on how damaging the loss of Facebook will be,

Don't you mean "liberating"?

9 minutes ago, Techstorm970 said:

Alright, Facebook, it's time to settle this once and for all!

I don't understand, that video uses the same option twice.

 

 

drops microphone and walks away

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

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i'm eager for the tech companies to give up and stop providing services to the EU. Many EU privacy laws go too far and place unreasonable restrictions on online businesses not seen for physical business, such as google having to erase public indexed searches and limitations on tracking on websites, but not physical locations.

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Sorry but fuck Facebook. Most European countries don't use it. Most people who use it are old people who try to stay in touch. They can do that on other sites, no problem. The only country who actively uses FB 24/7 is the UK and they'll find another place to moan about their bf staying out with dem lads all night and not helping with the kids. That's also no probs.

I also love all these Americans in this thread criticizing EU privacy laws. eh.. sorry our governance ahs actual pro consumer STANDARDS and doesn't just throw us to the wolves to cash in like your government who has zero problems with your farmers pumping cows full with hormones or chlorinated chicken but I bet that has nothing to do with the US having a much higher cancer rate. Meanwhile the rich have their food flown in from fuck knows where but certainly not the US.

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49 minutes ago, poochyena said:

i'm eager for the tech companies to give up and stop providing services to the EU. Many EU privacy laws go too far and place unreasonable restrictions on online businesses not seen for physical business, such as google having to erase public indexed searches and limitations on tracking on websites, but not physical locations.

So many people here are so wound up with the fact that it's Facebook that they cheer in rejoice without thinking of the long term consequences. But doesn't this set a dangerous precedence for every other tech firm? 

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1 hour ago, poochyena said:

i'm eager for the tech companies to give up and stop providing services to the EU.

Not gonna happen unless they decide to stop serving other similarly sized populations such as the US at the same time.

 

It would make no business sense to give up on access to over 300 Million potential customers.

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

Many EU privacy laws go too far

I would personally argue many don't go quite far enough.

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

and place unreasonable restrictions on online businesses not seen for physical business, such as google having to erase public indexed searches and limitations on tracking on websites, but not physical locations.

They do place restrictions on physical businesses. Organisations that record CCTV video in the EU have the same obligations under GDPR as an online business. They need to provide consumers the ability to invoke any of the rights granted by GDPR.

 

The same goes for organisations that for example run their own car park system with their own security enforcement team. You still have GDPR rights even though you're engaging with the physical world because they're still controlling your data which in this case would relate to if they take details down of you, your car, etc.

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

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59 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

So many people here are so wound up with the fact that it's Facebook that they cheer in rejoice without thinking of the long term consequences.

 

But doesn't this set a dangerous precedence for every other tech firm? 

 

If I've read OP's source article correctly, this is the EU's way of poking the US into not spying on EU citizens. Whether Facebook has to be the one to suffer for this to stop or if somebody else will take that place is up to the US.

 

It looks like this affects companies in the NSA's PRISM programme and companies involved with it or at least formerly involved in it.

 

There are already schemes that exist for transfering wholesale private information from the EU to the USA provided that GDPR is followed. The EU is looking after the interests of Europeans and they don't want their citizens to be spied on by Americans.

 

Quote

That court found in 2015 that, because of the existence of Prism, the “Safe Harbour” agreement, which allowed US companies to transfer the data of EU citizens back home, was invalid.

 

The EU then attempted a second legal agreement for the data transfers, a so-called privacy shield; that too was invalidated in July this year, with the court again ruling that the US does not limit surveillance of EU citizen

This is a quote from the OP's source article.

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1 hour ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

So many people here are so wound up with the fact that it's Facebook that they cheer in rejoice without thinking of the long term consequences. But doesn't this set a dangerous precedence for every other tech firm? 

i don't see how.

29 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

It would make no business sense to give up on access to over 300 Million potential customers.

if the costs to operate increase, then it would.

31 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

They do place restrictions on physical businesses. Organisations that record CCTV video in the EU have the same obligations under GDPR as an online business. They need to provide consumers the ability to invoke any of the rights granted by GDPR.

 

The same goes for organisations that for example run their own car park system with their own security enforcement team. You still have GDPR rights even though you're engaging with the physical world because they're still controlling your data which in this case would relate to if they take details down of you, your car, etc.

The people who make these laws can't possibly live in the real world. Its impossible to realistically enforce those laws. Worse than US copyright laws.

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16 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

If I've read OP's source article correctly, this is the EU's way of poking the US into not spying on EU citizens. Whether Facebook has to be the one to suffer for this to stop or if somebody else will take that place is up to the US.

The US will spy regardless. If they dont have Facebook, then they will figure out another way. To me, if the data is freely available on Facebook, you cant bitch and moan if the government uses it. That being said, Facebook has become a cesspool. The world might be a better place if it withered and died. Hell, maybe we can convince EA to buy Facebook? Because everything EA touches withers and dies. 

 

Not sure if its just me, but it seems like the EU has issues with American companies. Or maybe its just an issue with America as a whole? Not sure. 

I just want to sit back and watch the world burn. 

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4 hours ago, Ashley xD said:

PLEASE IRELAND ENFORCE IT THEN FACEBOOK WILL BE YEETED ONCE AND FOR ALL AND EUROPE WILL BE FREE FROM IT'S GRASP

I kinda doubt that.  The word “may” is key here.   That’s not “would”.  I suspect @BuckGup has it.   Europe would have to be willing to accept the possibility though. 

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5 hours ago, pythonmegapixel said:

withdrawal from the EU would have massive consequences.

yes, not giving my data to the corrupt, hypocrite and unlawful us government, a consequence I could live with.

 

4 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Don't you mean "liberating"?

 

basically

 

 

@Donut417  this would go far beyond the forum rules to explain this in detail but your last paragraph I do believe you know why.

And from a European view it looks like America currently has huge issues with America itself. And I do believe you know why also.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

And from a European view it looks like America currently has huge issues with America itself. And I believe you know why also.

We all have big issues, every country. The problems in the US has existed since is creation. Thats why the Civil war happen, why the Civil rights movement happen, etc. People are trying to push for change, some are doing it in a positive way, others are just being jackasses. But the other thing to consider is how much of the world relies on the US. Even countries in the EU. 

I just want to sit back and watch the world burn. 

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Well, good riddance then... Literally, if Facebook is gone over night, nothing of value will be lost and nothing will be affected. Been blocking Facebook for years and it doesn't affect my online experience in any way.

 

Google is much bigger problem with their stupid infestation of every pore of internet. I mean just look at all the crap Google is connected to that has NOTHING to do with Google. Look just at THIS forum. Bunch of stuff constantly fetched from Google's services just to display some stupid fonts and buttons. And if you block it, everything gets fucked up and broken. And that's almost on every page in existence. I've blocked it for a while but it screwed up online experience so far I was basically forced to go back to their shit even though I otherwise don't use anything from Google. Like, not a single service with exception of Youtube because they hold an absolute monopoly on video streaming. There just isn't any video webpage that would be anywhere close to Youtube. Which further makes situation even more sucky. And they are further screwing things up with Chrome's dominance and how everyone relies on it like it's 1990's all over again with Internet Explorer... Facebook has none of that and they can be gone literally over night and no one would give a damn.

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It would really say a lot about Facebook if they ultimately decided to not comply with the laws if they’re enforced and just give up on the EU. And whatever it would say about the company would not be good for the rest of us. 

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51 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Well, good riddance then... Literally, if Facebook is gone over night, nothing of value will be lost and nothing will be affected. Been blocking Facebook for years and it doesn't affect my online experience in any way.

 

Google is much bigger problem with their stupid infestation of every pore of internet. I mean just look at all the crap Google is connected to that has NOTHING to do with Google. Look just at THIS forum. Bunch of stuff constantly fetched from Google's services just to display some stupid fonts and buttons. And if you block it, everything gets fucked up and broken. And that's almost on every page in existence. I've blocked it for a while but it screwed up online experience so far I was basically forced to go back to their shit even though I otherwise don't use anything from Google. Like, not a single service with exception of Youtube because they hold an absolute monopoly on video streaming. There just isn't any video webpage that would be anywhere close to Youtube. Which further makes situation even more sucky. And they are further screwing things up with Chrome's dominance and how everyone relies on it like it's 1990's all over again with Internet Explorer... Facebook has none of that and they can be gone literally over night and no one would give a damn.

Should probably regulate Google like a utility then? I don’t really see much other alternative with Google as they’re pretty much everywhere. Google is probably a powerful enough corporation that they can make viable political threats to nations. 

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My camera lens sees the present…

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45 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Should probably regulate Google like a utility then? I don’t really see much other alternative with Google as they’re pretty much everywhere. Google is probably a powerful enough corporation that they can make viable political threats to nations. 

I mean, I've replaced every single service they provide with some alternative one. Except Youtube and all the shit they force onto webpages. Or make incentives for webpages to use them willingly coz it's convenient and "free".

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Isn't the EU release of tencent QQ and Wechat GDPR compliant already? It can't be hard for facebook.

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3 hours ago, Donut417 said:

But the other thing to consider is how much of the world relies on the US. Even countries in the EU. 

Rant start:

Are you implying that countries that rely on the US shouldn't seek to reduce their dependence on the US, especially if said countries find that their citizens' rights are being violated by a foreign country spying on them through a corporate entity? Yeah, jk that only happens with bad countries like Russia and China and bad companies like Tik-Tok and Huawei right? Of course since the US has the largest military in the world and the largest economy in the world, if you proverbially "talk shit" to the US, then you "get hit" right? Sounds like a good national ally to me.

Rant end:

 

Seriously though, just cause EU countries have close military and economic ties to the US doesn't mean they should give up the rights of the citizens they serve. With Facebook, is it really freely available information if only big corporations and national governments can get access to it? If I can get a source on the information the US government is getting from Facebook, I'd be on it in a heartbeat.

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