COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[atxcyclist]

1 minute ago, Egg-Roll said:

Masks are useless, unless they are N95. If the mask can't keep particles out it can't keep you safe, other masks are great for those who pose a risk not the other way around. That said N95 masks have all been sold out for weeks next to buying online at stupid prices.

 

Equally what is stupid is Amazon... Next to the fact that one could buy a 2100 gaming laptop and get it in a week vs starving to death in isolation because rice cookers arn't being shipped anytime soon. Why the hell is this not next day? Next to the fact it is clearly price gouging and I wouldn't trust them... https://www.amazon.ca/KN95-Masks-Adjustable-Headgear-5packs/dp/B0869LLF4V/

I have a family member that has been going on about wearing a mask for a month, to which I always reply: "What masks?" And no, I wouldn't pay $60 for a mask either, I'd rather stay inside.

[Egg-Roll]

13 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

I have a family member that has been going on about wearing a mask for a month, to which I always reply: "What masks?" And no, I wouldn't pay $60 for a mask either, I'd rather stay inside.

Well I guess taping a garbage over your head with a scuba tank would work as a mask... But Scuba places have all been shut down as they are not an essential service... Equally one could prob make their own N95 masks, but if done wrong they are no better than any other mask. Multiple layers of certain cloth could also work too, but it's getting too warm for that even.

[NumLock21]

3 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

What kind of nonsense thinking is that?

 

Beat people for leaving there homes?

 

If i go on a hike in the woods in my backyard i put nobody at risk. If i take my motorcycle out and ride for an hour without stopping i out nobody at risk.

 

You can practice social distancing easily without locking yourself in your home.

They how India is dealing with it, China are the other hand, they have been videos, where people are literally locked inside their homes.

 

2 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

Masks are useless, unless they are N95. If the mask can't keep particles out it can't keep you safe, other masks are great for those who pose a risk not the other way around. That said N95 masks have all been sold out for weeks next to buying online at stupid prices.

 

Equally what is stupid is Amazon... Next to the fact that one could buy a 2100 gaming laptop and get it in a week vs starving to death in isolation because rice cookers arn't being shipped anytime soon. Why the hell is this not next day? Next to the fact it is clearly price gouging and I wouldn't trust them... https://www.amazon.ca/KN95-Masks-Adjustable-Headgear-5packs/dp/B0869LLF4V/

If you can't find one, then make one. It's better than nothing. Don't want to end up like this poor bus driver.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/03/826817866/take-this-serious-bus-driver-dies-of-covid-19-after-calling-out-coughing-rider

[StDragon]

3 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

Masks are useless, unless they are N95. If the mask can't keep particles out it can't keep you safe, other masks are great for those who pose a risk not the other way around. That said N95 masks have all been sold out for weeks next to buying online at stupid prices.

 

Equally what is stupid is Amazon... Next to the fact that one could buy a 2100 gaming laptop and get it in a week vs starving to death in isolation because rice cookers arn't being shipped anytime soon. Why the hell is this not next day? Next to the fact it is clearly price gouging and I wouldn't trust them... https://www.amazon.ca/KN95-Masks-Adjustable-Headgear-5packs/dp/B0869LLF4V/

IMHO, N95 masks should be reserved for the heath care providers that are on the front lines. We need them to stay healthy as overloaded as they are. They should also be rationed out to only the elderly and those with preexisting conditions that put them more at risk.

 

As for Amazon, I'm not sure exactly what the priority is in logistics. But if I had to guess, it's medical supplies, daily essentials, and other items to keep the economy going; that means laptops and other computing equipment for people to work from home. Just a guess on that latter part, but it does make sense to me for that to be the case.

 

Rice cookers? Yeah, not so much for an appliance. There's plenty of ways to cook rice.

[RonnieOP]

Just now, NumLock21 said:

They how India is dealing with it, China are the other hand, they have been videos, where people are literally locked inside their homes.

 

If they tried that in the states there would be a justifiable civil war. 

 

The people i know in the military and police force would quit before they followed those orders 

 

Not to mention you said thats how more areas should handle it...

[NumLock21]

1 minute ago, RonnieOP said:

If they tried that in the states there would be a justifiable civil war. 

 

The people i know in the military and police force would quit before they followed those orders 

 

Not to mention you said thats how more areas should handle it...

They probably should, so more will take it seriously and behave.

[atxcyclist]

1 minute ago, NumLock21 said:

They probably should, so more will take it seriously and behave.

There's a legal system and punishments for people that commit crimes, as it should be. A police state isn't necessary.

[StDragon]

This is the biological machinery and the code it's programmed with. It's elegant natural engineering (evolution) and yet, the cause of our troubles.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/03/science/coronavirus-genome-bad-news-wrapped-in-protein.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab
 

[RonnieOP]

11 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

They probably should, so more will take it seriously and behave.

I honestly dont understand how anyone could possible think that is an acceptable answer.

 

Locking people in their homes and beating them doesnt help anything. 

 

People still have basic needs. 

 

 

[Egg-Roll]

11 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

If you can't find one, then make one. It's better than nothing. Don't want to end up like this poor bus driver.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/03/826817866/take-this-serious-bus-driver-dies-of-covid-19-after-calling-out-coughing-rider

That sucks, hope the person got criminally charged. But as I said earlier unless the buses are crowded (can always take TTC then VIVA, which one has been ordered no more than 15 people and the other should be dead and typically 60 ft long) I'm more likely to catch it from some twat locally outside over anything else.

 

12 minutes ago, StDragon said:

IMHO, N95 masks should be reserved for the heath care providers that are on the front lines. We need them to stay healthy as overloaded as they are. They should also be rationed out to only the elderly and those with preexisting conditions that put them more at risk.

 

As for Amazon, I'm not sure exactly what the priority is in logistics. But if I had to guess, it's medical supplies, daily essentials, and other items to keep the economy going; that means laptops and other computing equipment for people to work from home. Just a guess on that latter part, but it does make sense to me for that to be the case.

 

Rice cookers? Yeah, not so much for an appliance. There's plenty of ways to cook rice.

I agree N95 should be left alone, but they are the only mask I would wear if not sick, and if sick I would just stay home like a responsible person.

 

Actually rice cookers are great and should be deemed as essential, esp the pressure cooker ones like the one I bought just before the change. If your stove dies you can't get a new one delivered (not a issue for a gas one but electric...), this means you either go out to a store and try getting a burner or what not (electric burners can be less efficient  than cookers) which since amazon has stopped shipping them I've seen more being sold and lower stocks of them. Canadian Tire locally had about 20 Instant Pots on display 2 days later half where gone, this was during the week and at full price.

 

Amazon priorities are a little weird, some food items are not allowed to be shipped till a later date (actual food that might be actually useful) yet you can buy candy and get it same/next day. However you do have the basics down Food Medical and such, my point with the gaming laptop is no one in their right mind would spend 2100 for a laptop when a tablet and/or a cheap computer would work just as well with a webcam. To me some things like electric burners and cookers should be allowed to be sold as essentials since appliances are not likely to be delivered/installed, could be wrong but equally what would you rather have during a jobless pandemic? a $500 stove or a $100 cooker till you get your job back? That $400 goes a long way for food.

 

To make things even more confusing: https://www.leons.ca/pages/covid-19 states they are doing deliverers but doorsteps and garages, mentions nothing about in home setups, repairs are still being done so one can assume installs are being done too, but that includes risk to both parties.

At least The Brick is more clear on their standing: https://thebrick.com/pages/covid-19 but once again a issue that could easily be fixed if Amazon just delivered...

 

FYI you can't even buy a pot on Amazon... Also once can't explain this with any argument... https://www.amazon.ca/all-new-Echo/dp/B07P64NDGG/ (Next day shipping wtf...)

[Kilrah]

30 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

If i take my motorcycle out and ride for an hour without stopping i out nobody at risk.

People are asked not to use their motorbikes here. Not forbidden, but strongly discouraged - don't want to clog the hospitals more and for long period due to motorcycle accidents.

 

[NumLock21]

1 minute ago, Egg-Roll said:

That sucks, hope the person got criminally charged. But as I said earlier unless the buses are crowded (can always take TTC then VIVA, which one has been ordered no more than 15 people and the other should be dead and typically 60 ft long) I'm more likely to catch it from some twat locally outside over anything else.

There was only 8-9 people on that bus including the driver. The bus was empty. WEAR A MASK

[RonnieOP]

9 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

People are asked not to use their motorbikes here. Not forbidden, but strongly discouraged - don't want to clog the hospitals more and for long period due to motorcycle accidents.

 

Yeah you should try and be as safe as possible no matter what you are doing i agree 

[Egg-Roll]

14 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

I honestly dont understand how anyone could possible think that is an acceptable answer.

 

Locking people in their homes and beating them doesnt help anything. 

 

People still have basic needs. 

 

 

China permitted one person to leave every week for needs like food afaik unless they where an essential service worker or going to a hospital. I don't agree with beating someone however, but each country is different.

 

I do think we need to take a stricter approach than what is current.

 

11 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

There was only 8-9 people on that bus including the driver. The bus was empty. WEAR A MASK

Like I said anything less than N95 won't work, also quickly watching the video he actually touched his mouth at least once (7:46), and not knowing (I'm about to head out) where the lady was sitting her germs could have landed where he touched with his hands etc. For me with what I currently know there is too little information to support the whole bus could have been infected. Germs don't travel far typically but they last a long time on surfaces.

 

I have a solid practice of using one hand to public places the other for my stuff/take out food. I go to Tims daily for breakfast heading to work, my coffee is in public doors hand and food is either in my pocket or clean hand, when I'm out and only buy a drink the drink is always in the public hand regardless. Once I get to work I wash my hands and I don't drink my coffee till last then I wash my hands again. So unless the person prepping my food is sick or someone near me (under 2 meters) is sick I'm quite safe. My safety is only as safe as those around me. On a bus I can choose a different way or bus, but in public spaces you can only do so much due to traffic water trees etc, that is why I don't believe for me anyways transit is such a large risk. If I was a bus driver then yes I would be worried.

[NumLock21]

5 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

Like I said anything less than N95 won't work, also quickly watching the video he actually touched his mouth at least once (7:46), and not knowing (I'm about to head out) where the lady was sitting her germs could have landed where he touched with his hands etc. For me with what I currently know there is too little information to support the whole bus could have been infected. Germs don't travel far typically but they last a long time on surfaces.

 

I have a solid practice of using one hand to public places the other for my stuff/take out food. I go to Tims daily for breakfast heading to work, my coffee is in public doors hand and food is either in my pocket or clean hand, when I'm out and only buy a drink the drink is always in the public hand regardless. Once I get to work I wash my hands and I don't drink my coffee till last then I wash my hands again. So unless the person prepping my food is sick or someone near me (under 2 meters) is sick I'm quite safe. My safety is only as safe as those around me. On a bus I can choose a different way or bus, but in public spaces you can only do so much due to traffic water trees etc, that is why I don't believe for me anyways transit is such a large risk. If I was a bus driver then yes I would be worried.

Looks like your mind is set and not willing to accept change. Good Luck.

[Zodiark1593]

5 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

There's a legal system and punishments for people that commit crimes, as it should be. A police state isn't necessary.

So long as compliance remains relatively high, this is true. Though if substantial percentages of civilian populaces willfully defies lockdown orders (such as 10% of San Francisco, for example), the civilian legal system will have a rather heavy load to handle.
 

This is what “Martial Law” is generally designed to address where the existing legal system is no longer able to maintain order. Acute crises (storm, tornados, flooding, etc) and excessive rioting, looting and other violent crimes. 
 

In a hypothetical worst case scenario (here in the States), I believe it more plausible that states would sooner back down on restrictions and accept the consequences, than to allow unrest to reach the point of requiring military intervention. By this point though, the damage is already done. 
 

A preemptive (scaled back?) “Martial Law” I suppose is also possible. With swift (think overnight) mobilization, the shock value of suddenly having troops patrolling the streets (even if they actually do very little) will serve a very strong deterrence to flouting lockdown orders.  However, feasibility is an issue outside major cities. Even with a couple middling states, there is vast amounts of ground to cover, especially if rural areas are to be considered. 

[atxcyclist]

7 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Looks like your mind is set and not willing to accept change. Good Luck.

Ratings like N95 exist for a reason, and homebrew safety equipment will vary wildly in its effectiveness. Telling people to take a few layers of a t-shirt and make masks sounds great, but everything from thread-count, layering tension, treatment of the fibers, age of the material, and maybe dozens of other variables will determine the ability of those masks to be beneficial against microscopic pathogens. Meanwhile, there's a scientifically-backed standard for what an N95 rated mask will do.

 

Worse than people not having a mask to use and just staying home, is them using an ineffective one and believing that they are protected.

[Bombastinator]

25 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

China permitted one person to leave every week for needs like food afaik unless they where an essential service worker or going to a hospital. I don't agree with beating someone however, but each country is different.

 

I do think we need to take a stricter approach than what is current.

 

Like I said anything less than N95 won't work, also quickly watching the video he actually touched his mouth at least once (7:46), and not knowing (I'm about to head out) where the lady was sitting her germs could have landed where he touched with his hands etc. For me with what I currently know there is too little information to support the whole bus could have been infected. Germs don't travel far typically but they last a long time on surfaces.

 

I have a solid practice of using one hand to public places the other for my stuff/take out food. I go to Tims daily for breakfast heading to work, my coffee is in public doors hand and food is either in my pocket or clean hand, when I'm out and only buy a drink the drink is always in the public hand regardless. Once I get to work I wash my hands and I don't drink my coffee till last then I wash my hands again. So unless the person prepping my food is sick or someone near me (under 2 meters) is sick I'm quite safe. My safety is only as safe as those around me. On a bus I can choose a different way or bus, but in public spaces you can only do so much due to traffic water trees etc, that is why I don't believe for me anyways transit is such a large risk. If I was a bus driver then yes I would be worried.

I thought it was once every three days.

[atxcyclist]

9 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

So long as compliance remains relatively high, this is true. Though if substantial percentages of civilian populaces willfully defies lockdown orders (such as 10% of San Francisco, for example), the civilian legal system will have a rather heavy load to handle.
 

This is what “Martial Law” is generally designed to address where the existing legal system is no longer able to maintain order. Acute crises (storm, tornados, flooding, etc) and excessive rioting, looting and other violent crimes. 
 

In a hypothetical worst case scenario (here in the States), I believe it more plausible that states would sooner back down on restrictions and accept the consequences, than to allow unrest to reach the point of requiring military intervention. By this point though, the damage is already done. 
 

A preemptive (scaled back?) “Martial Law” I suppose is also possible. With swift (think overnight) mobilization, the shock value of suddenly having troops patrolling the streets (even if they actually do very little) will serve a very strong deterrence to flouting lockdown orders.  However, feasibility is an issue outside major cities. Even with a couple middling states, there is vast amounts of ground to cover, especially if rural areas are to be considered. 

It is still shocking to me that there are urban areas where people are defying shelter in place rules that much. I know there are rural areas here in Texas that there is no way compliance could be enforced as they're too big. That said, most of those people live a half-mile or more from their neighbors and don't have to deal with the issues of being stuck inside their homes for weeks at a time. If I could freely roam hundreds of acres I'd never get bored.

[Egg-Roll]

  

31 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Looks like your mind is set and not willing to accept change. Good Luck.

It's not my mind that is the issue, it's those who refuse to follow the guidelines. Where possible I avoid human contact (cashierless checkouts ftw), I wash my hands enough times threw out the day after touching anything from stores. I avoid touching my face when outside or have had interactions with others/product.

 

So long as people stay away from me my risk is almost 0. That's the issue is people (esp where I live) are stupid, they refuse to follow guidelines hence the dramatic increase in cases. I do my best next to buying a N95 mask (impossible, and won't as I know others need it more than me) I can't do much more next to knocking Tims off my daily routine. I do not drive (false sense of cleanliness, like masks) and I do not patronize companies that require you to go threw drive thrus for food, reason for this is because drive thrus are actually a higher rate of transfer and unknown due to not knowing whos inside and who was in front of you upwards to 5 people (or more)

 

12 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I thought it was once every three days.

Still not completely being locked in home as some might believe. It's quite easy to walk to a store and get a weeks worth of food in one shot, if it was 3 days all the better. But damn did they kill the curve fast 

[NumLock21]

9 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

Ratings like N95 exist for a reason, and homebrew safety equipment will vary wildly in its effectiveness. Telling people to take a few layers of a t-shirt and make masks sounds great, but everything from thread-count, layering tension, treatment of the fibers, age of the material, and maybe dozens of other variables will determine the ability of those masks to be beneficial against microscopic pathogens. Meanwhile, there's a scientifically-backed standard for what an N95 rated mask will do.

 

Worse than people not having a mask to use and just staying home, is them using an ineffective one and believing that they are protected.

N95 will have good protection, while homemade will have less, but it's better than no protection. What's so difficult to understand. Do people want to be lying in a hospital bed with a tube jammed into their windpipe, and then start regretting, they should have worn one, when they still have the chance. Now that's too late, next stop, it's the crematorium.

[RonnieOP]

14 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

 

In a hypothetical worst case scenario (here in the States), I believe it more plausible that states would sooner back down on restrictions and accept the consequences, than to allow unrest to reach the point of requiring military intervention. By this point though, the damage is already done. 

This.

 

We already have politicians questioning if the current stay at home orders are constitutional. 

 

If they start pulling what india and china are doing shit will really hit the fan.

[Bombastinator]

5 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

  

It's not my mind that is the issue, it's those who refuse to follow the guidelines. Where possible I avoid human contact (cashierless checkouts ftw), I wash my hands enough times threw out the day after touching anything from stores. I avoid touching my face when outside or have had interactions with others/product.

 

So long as people stay away from me my risk is almost 0. That's the issue is people (esp where I live) are stupid, they refuse to follow guidelines hence the dramatic increase in cases. I do my best next to buying a N95 mask (impossible, and won't as I know others need it more than me) I can't do much more next to knocking Tims off my daily routine. I do not drive (false sense of cleanliness, like masks) and I do not patronize companies that require you to go threw drive thrus for food, reason for this is because drive thrus are actually a higher rate of transfer and unknown due to not knowing whos inside and who was in front of you upwards to 5 people (or more)

 

Still not completely being locked in home as some might believe. It's quite easy to walk to a store and get a weeks worth of food in one shot, if it was 3 days all the better. But damn did they kill the curve fast 

They had some advantages.  Spring festival was a big one.  The thing seems to have hit just after the city emptied out.  It had less than a third of its population in it for the duration.  It was an industrial city, but it didn’t do stuff that couldn’t be done elsewhere and they had a preplanned shutdown.  The town was scheduled to be near empty for six weeks anyway.  Serious luck.  Luck other places didn’t have.  Also there is some question as to how accurate their figures are.  Particularly total deaths.

[RonnieOP]

6 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

N95 will have good protection, while homemade will have less, but it's better than no protection. What's so difficult to understand. Do people want to be lying in a hospital bed with a tube jammed into their windpipe, and then start regretting, they should have worn one, when they still have the chance. Now that's too late, next stop, it's the crematorium.

From what ive heard doctors say homemade masks do very very little.

 

If the protection has very very little effect theres no point. 

 

Your assuming that a homemade mask would be the difference between getting the virus or not getting it.

 

 

[Bombastinator]

5 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

N95 will have good protection, while homemade will have less, but it's better than no protection. What's so difficult to understand. Do people want to be lying in a hospital bed with a tube jammed into their windpipe, and then start regretting, they should have worn one, when they still have the chance. Now that's too late, next stop, it's the crematorium.

There was a long thread back when the virus was China only maintained by I think some international health worker.  He went into some detail about cloth masks.  Iirc you specifically want cotton.  More specifically unmercantarized or well washed fluffy cotton.  Cotton has unusual properties.  It also didn’t hit n95.  Something like n80 or n85 iirc.