COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[straight_stewie]

21 minutes ago, Cora_Lie said:

You can do that when you have planned and readied yourself for that situation.

Well that's not true at all.

It is not required to have a plan in place to correctly respond to a thing, all that's required to correctly respond to a thing is a correct response to the thing.

 

Proper preparation definitely helps and makes things easier. That point can't be argued against. But preparation is not necessarily a requirement to get through any given thing.

Taking Coronavirus response to the extreme, either extreme, will cause more death than necessary. If we do not focus on safety enough, more people than necessary will get infected. If we focus on safety to the point of extreme detriment to the economy, more people will become impoverished and die because they cannot afford to live.

In the general case, extreme responses lead to extreme outcomes and everything comes at a cost. Take that however you will.

[atxcyclist]

46 minutes ago, Cora_Lie said:

I hope too for your sake, but if I may say, you need people to run the economy and in that regard you only need to look at history:

1918-19 --> 1929 --> 1934

 

You already have everything in place all around the world for 1934, we are completely in 1918-19... You only need 1929!

Why on earth do you think that Europe is injecting so much money to keep people at home to have them as safe as possible AND giving money to the (small) companies to keep running?

In my country the state even went so far as to not ask for rent from the shops and small companies in order to not strangle them and asked the land-owners to do the same in exchange of tax exemptions. And many land-owners accepted.

WHO do you think makes the country run? The big companies or the small ones? Which ones are providing the cash-flow? The big ones who seek as much tax-exemptions and delocalize as much as possible or the small ones which employ the citizens locally and pay their taxes?

 

I don't work in an industry that can just get money put into it, I work in a small architectural firm. It takes months or years for a project to come to life from a concept, and without both willing clients and their money, non-governmental firms (and we don't do governmental work) will die. Injecting money to keep employees like me home in the business I work in does nothing for our long-term prospects. Yes, I'll collect a paycheck during the lockdown, but will come back to zero clients and we'll close up anyway.

 

I learned that my area is going by Federal guidelines for essential workers now, and because we don't do governmental work my firm has been deemed non-essential. So I just found out I'm stuck in my house until April 30th, and get to watch the business I've worked at for almost two decades probably fade into dust. And since my industry is likely to be nearly non-existent at the end of this, without my current job I'll probably have to go dig ditches for minimum wage once this is over.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

I don't work in an industry that can just get money put into it, I work in a small architectural firm. It takes months or years for a project to come to life from a concept, and without both willing clients and their money, non-governmental firms (and we don't do governmental work) will die. Injecting money to keep employees like me home in the business I work in does nothing for our long-term prospects. Yes, I'll collect a paycheck during the lockdown, but will come back to zero clients and we'll close up anyway.

 

I learned that my area is going by Federal guidelines for essential workers now, and because we don't do governmental work my firm has been deemed non-essential. So I just found out I'm stuck in my house until April 30th, and get to watch the business I've worked at for almost two decades probably fade into dust. And since my industry is likely to be nearly non-existent at the end of this, without my current job I'll probably have to go dig ditches for minimum wage once this is over.

I'm truly sorry for your situation and for all those who are in the same one as your.

I understand and know that it's not easy. Far from it. Mine is not either.

I know it may sound as being such a platitude but... as long as you're alive and in good health you can rebuild.

If you're dead or have to deal with sequels... it's much more difficult.

 

 

[SpaceGhostC2C]

44 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

 Injecting money to keep employees like me home in the business I work in does nothing for our long-term prospects. Yes, I'll collect a paycheck during the lockdown, but will come back to zero clients and we'll close up anyway.

Sadly, that is true, or at least a likely outcome in a slow recovery scenario (however, there is a real possibility of rapid recovery due to the nature of this recession and the battery of measures being adopted). The thing is, the forces reducing future demand for your business are already at play, whether you're quarantined or allowed to work now. The viability of your business at the other end of the upcoming recession isn't as much a consequence of current health policies as it is a consequence of future expectations about the economic recovery. Hence, at this point it is entirely an issue of economic policy, rather than health policy, and that's the stance governments and central banks around the world are taking. They may fail, or it may not be enough, or it may not be enough for everybody even if it mostly succeeds in the aggregate, but it is well understood and being tackled.

 

We have seen "jobless recoveries" in the past, but we also have seen plenty of cases where the recovery happens at "Chinese rates" after a specific deadweight is lifted from an economy. In that sense, and directly opposite to 2007-2009, the chances for a booming recovery worldwide (the "V-shape" recession you may have heard about in the media) are far from slim.

There is no guarantee, but there is room for hope.

[Uttamattamakin]

All of those talking about business down turns.  I HATE to say this but since I have been working in education I have learned that in this part of the economy a downturn for everyone else means more students, more classes, more work, more full time tenure tracked jobs.   So  while I don't think this will lead to a long term decline it will make people think twice about the notion that they can just be a gig worker with no more than high school education.  It is not enough to know how to use half a dozen apps and be able to hustle that extra room on AirBnB while you also deliver food and packages all day. 

To change the subject.  I have read the rules and beg forgiveness in advance.  A VERY reliable team of youtubers who have focused on China issues for years, and who lived in China and youtube from China for many MANY years have taken a look at the Chinese language internet.  They have found some intriguing information.   Which IF true may be dynamite.   The claim in brief is that a particular researcher at the Wuhan Institute of Virology was the actual patient zero.  They have a lot more to go on than just coincidence.  This person has had their bio removed from that website. 

 

I cross checked it with sources I know in English.  For example her OrCID page and research gate.  OrCID keeps a database of published scientist.   We work our whole lives to build up the logest research record possible.  No one, even if they leave science forever, chooses to delete all of that.  It would be futile since the published papers exist, the coauthors exist.   Yet look at this. (https://orcid.org/0000-0003-1192-675X) 

 

 

This is highly suggestive but of course not confirmed as in some outside third party did a careful forensic investigation or the CCP has come out and admitted to something like this.  Things which would never ever occur as long as the CCP is in power.  On the contrary they'd rather tell us it was from an American Cyclist or some such nonsense.   Go ahead and delete this section  if you think it is too far but please have mercy on me for thinking it is too much not to share.    The lab has denied this but no one has found a trace of this person online and unlike the supposed usual operating procedure of the CCP she has not appeared in media to deny the claim.  

 I have reached out to some of the people she published with and am awaiting a reply from them. If they dare contradict the CCP. Scientist are usually delighted to respond to emails so I may have to publish it myself.     There are a lot of people on this forum who have knowledge of these issues.  Does this pass the smell test.  Am I missing something? 

 

 

[atxcyclist]

30 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

All of those talking about business down turns.  I HATE to say this but since I have been working in education I have learned that in this part of the economy a downturn for everyone else means more students, more classes, more work, more full time tenure tracked jobs.   So  while I don't think this will lead to a long term decline it will make people think twice about the notion that they can just be a gig worker with no more than high school education.  It is not enough to know how to use half a dozen apps and be able to hustle that extra room on AirBnB while you also deliver food and packages all day. 
 

 

 

Telling laid-off or out-of-work people, 'Hey, it looks like you should have gotten a degree' isn't actually productive. You're obviously not one of the people that's losing their job, so maybe you HATE to say it but it's easy for you to say it. A lot easier to say than someone coughing up 4+ years of time and thousands of dollars for a college education during a pandemic. Hindsight is 20/20 and it's easy to point fingers, a college degree isn't possible/available for everyone. Also something of note; Those package and food deliverers are some of the biggest fields of essential workers, in my country anyway. Right now there are a lot of professionals with degrees that are just as out of work as a Waffle House employee, neither one has an income.

[Delicious Cake]

18 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

Telling laid-off or out-of-work people, 'Hey, it looks like you should have gotten a degree' isn't actually productive. You're obviously not one of the people that's losing their job, so maybe you HATE to say it but it's easy for you to say it. A lot easier to say than someone coughing up 4+ years of time and thousands of dollars for a college education during a pandemic. Hindsight is 20/20 and it's easy to point fingers, a college degree isn't possible/available for everyone. Also something of note; Those package and food deliverers are some of the biggest fields of essential workers, in my country anyway. Right now there are a lot of professionals with degrees that are just as out of work as a Waffle House employee, neither one has an income.

There's a pretty simple reply to this, but it's an inherently political answer.

[atxcyclist]

9 minutes ago, Delicious Cake said:

There's a pretty simple reply to this, but it's an inherently political answer.

Politics don't really have anything to do with it, I doubt where you're from or who you vote for really apply much. Anything can be made political though.

[Delicious Cake]

I saw the original post.

 

The fact you immediately dismiss it with "Anything can be made political though" is part of the fundamental problem.

 

Where you're from and who you vote for "doesn't matter," because the problems at the heart of it all are present everywhere, but where you're from and who you vote for also do matter, because while these problems exist everywhere, they're also much more egregiously rampant and ingrained in some places more than others.

[atxcyclist]

10 minutes ago, Delicious Cake said:

I saw the original post.

 

The fact you immediately dismiss it with "Anything can be made political though" is part of the fundamental problem.

 

Where you're from and who you vote for "doesn't matter," because the problems at the heart of it all are present everywhere, but where you're from and who you vote for also do matter, because while these problems exist everywhere, they're also much more egregiously rampant and ingrained in some places more than others.

Ok, well it doesn't fix the current situation being political, so what else do you have? As I said in my other post, pointing fingers is easy. Is your presumed moral/intellectual superiority good enough to fix the problem? No.

[RonnieOP]

31 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

Ok, well it doesn't fix the current situation being political, so what else do you have? As I said in my other post, pointing fingers is easy. Is your presumed moral/intellectual superiority good enough to fix the problem? No.

I have no clue what he is getting at.

 

People with degrees are not immune to a crashed economy. Having a degree isnt going to put you ion some huge advantage. If anything if you have student debt its going to hurt you even worse.

 

 

[Uttamattamakin]

1 hour ago, atxcyclist said:

Telling laid-off or out-of-work people, 'Hey, it looks like you should have gotten a degree' isn't actually productive. You're obviously not one of the people that's losing their job, so maybe you HATE to say it but it's easy for you to say it.

Never said "Hey, it looks like you should have gotten a degree".  You did.  If you want to drag me drag me for an actual quote. 

 

1 hour ago, atxcyclist said:

 A lot easier to say than someone coughing up 4+ years of time and thousands of dollars for a college education during a pandemic. 

I was in college during the post 9/11 slump and started during the dot com bust at the end of the 1990's.  I started grad school in earnest going into the 2008 crisis (We had Sars and Swine Flu) and graduated with a MS in Physics in 2013... times were still tough.   In many ways worse than now.  Right now the only problem is Coronavirus.

 

1 hour ago, atxcyclist said:

a college degree isn't possible/available for everyone. 

I am and adjunct at community colleges here in Illinois. IT IS possible it just isn't easy.  I did it and supposedly I was one who would NEVER succeed.  I have helped others who were told they would/could NEVER graduate to graduate.  I have taught grown people to count and others calc based physics. 

1 hour ago, atxcyclist said:

 Those package and food deliverers are some of the biggest fields of essential workers, in my country anyway. Right now there are a lot of professionals with degrees that are just as out of work as a Waffle House employee, neither one has an income.

I'm from Chicago, Illinois.  Waffle house... might you be from the far off land of Kentucky or Louisiana? I happen to know that most desk working professionals, in the United States of America, are working remotely IF they were working before this. 

 

Many professional workers WERE gig workers or still are but our gigs can be done remotely. 

 

How might this posting relate to coronavirus. 

 

I hope some of the young folks reading this will take away a few things.  

 

1. Things have been bad before but they always got better again.   The economy has been bad before
2. YOU no matter who you are can be whatever you want to be if you put your mind to it. IF I could do it then it is likely you could too. Don't think the way things are is how they have to always be.  Don't assume how you see people now is how they always were.  Don't assume how you are now is how you always have to be.
3. Out of hardship comes opportunity.  I got into the career I have now, with "only" a MS when most people who do it have a PhD because there was demand.  Find the demand you can fill and fill it.  For some that may be food delivery .. well... try to be the one that owns the food delivery service.  Start one of your own and keep 100% of the tips (especially good if you are in a small town with none of the big guys around.)  

Feel free to read some kind of negative messaging into it.  My only point in replying is to hope you will get the message that feeling bad because someone else might have it a little better is what is not productive.  

Trying to find a silver lining in this is what IS productive.    Someone elses may be, if you are in IT, that suddenly a lot of people are going to need and value having tech support.    How many people on this forum could work from home for a phone tech support company? 

 

Linus already has a great name for it.... 

 

Don't see limits see possibilities! 

 

Edited to add: I see above that you say you are an architect.  Uhm ... isn't most of that done via CAD programs and computerized renderings now.  I mean you have to visit the site of construction and measure ... but you can do that remotely.  In most states construction is ongoing and essential.    Unless I am mistaken. 

[Uttamattamakin]

1 hour ago, Delicious Cake said:

There's a pretty simple reply to this, but it's an inherently political answer.

No the simple reply to that has three words.  That would not teach anything though.  

30 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

I have no clue what he is getting at.

 

People with degrees are not immune to a crashed economy. Having a degree isnt going to put you ion some huge advantage. If anything if you have student debt its going to hurt you even worse.

 

 

All I said was speaking as a person whose job it is to teach.   When college enrollment was at a historic low before this ... after this enrollment will go up.  When the economy turns down young people who right now might think "Why go to college?"  Just drive for Uber and Grub Hub or get a 2 BR apartment and AirBnB out one room for $100- $200 a night.  Right there in a place like Chicago rent is done in a couple of nights a week of that, Ubering or similar can pay for the rest of the bills.  In a thriving economy that actually isn't a dumb thing to do.  

 

NOW that might not look so attractive. 

 

It sounds AWFUL but the education sector goes up when the rest of the economy goes down.   So I expect a lot more people are going to want to have at least one of their gigs be something that could be done remotely or online.  That always requires technical knowledge that cannot yet be automated.   That requires more education than our failing high schools have been giving people. 

 

Saying something like that make me an elitist?  I am a college prof now of course I think college is GREAT! 

[atxcyclist]

22 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

 

 

Don't see limits see possibilities! 

I graduated high school in 2002, and every penny that was in my college tuition fund got spent keeping a roof over my family’s heads before I turned 18. I’ve also worked since I was 15 years old, and started my current job that isn’t in IT back in 2003. There isn’t a silver lining on my end, aside from having plenty of time to play TF2 in a few days/weeks when whatever work I can do from home runs out and the company is sunk.

 

22 hours ago, RonnieOP said:

I have no clue what he is getting at.

 

People with degrees are not immune to a crashed economy. Having a degree isnt going to put you ion some huge advantage. If anything if you have student debt its going to hurt you even worse.

 

 

Yep, my boss is a professional and will be just as out of work as I am if this keeps going. Unless you’re a doctor, therapist, or possibly an attorney, a degree doesn’t guarantee anything right now.

[Uttamattamakin]

16 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

I graduated high school in 2002, and every penny that was in my college tuition fund got spent keeping a roof over my family’s heads before I turned 18. I’ve also worked since I was 15 years old, and started my current job that isn’t in IT back in 2003. There isn’t a silver lining on my end, aside from having plenty of time to play TF2 in a few days/weeks when whatever work I can do from home runs out and the company is sunk.

You need to be more positive.  Trust me it'll get better.  

[Bombastinator]

4 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

It’s not really easy to revive either one. I hope the company I work for will make it through, same with many other companies. 

It won’t be as bad as the Great Depression hopefully.  I forget what the percentage of companies was that got through that one.  Double digits.  Not sure what digits.  It was like 5 years though.  

[SpikeSpiegel]

She cost the supermarket $35k worth of produce, meat, deli, and bakery.  What a waste of food and they had to throw it all out because of her.

 

 

Quote

 

Lady purposely coughs at supermarket meat in New Jersey - A lady purposely coughed at meat produce in a supermarket in the U.S. state of New Jersey. The supermarket had to destroy products worth around 35,000 U.S dollars (250,000 yuan).

 

As the coronavirus outbreak is becoming increasingly serious in the U.S., the supermarket decided to disinfect all the areas that she touched. The U.S. Department of Justice has announced that those who intentionally spread COVID-19 can be prosecuted on terrorism-related charges.

 

 

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, RonnieOP said:

I have no clue what he is getting at.

 

People with degrees are not immune to a crashed economy. Having a degree isnt going to put you ion some huge advantage. If anything if you have student debt its going to hurt you even worse.

 

 

They aren’t.  They can be slightly more immune.  It’s the only real advantage.  Education can never be taken away from you once acquired.

[Bombastinator]

Was talking to a guy today who was a navy spook in 2000 or so.  Part of his job was to read and verify news.  According to him as of 2000 one of the better places to find actual news was global news Canada.  It was not reliable for Canadian news particularly but it was good for international stuff.  That was near 20 years ago.  He had very bad things to say about FOX.  Also 20 years ago.

[vanished]

4 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

They aren’t.  They can be slightly more immune.  It’s the only real advantage.  Education can never be taken away from you once acquired.

[atxcyclist]

15 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

You need to be more positive.  Trust me it'll get better.  

To respond to your edit earlier, I am not an architect. I'm a building modelling and CAD draftsman, but managing shared modeling files on projects we do is a complicated job, and with only two people in the office we don't have a huge fancy system for doing it offsite. Mainly because no one prepares for a pandemic that will lock them in their house for a month at a time away from their work. Construction is essential on specific projects, but CISA guidelines which are what is being used in my state now, only allow for certain types of projects to be considered essential and we're currently not working on them. 

 

I'd be more positive if there were not knuckleheads going to beaches and spring breaking, or hopping state borders to get around bar closures. I've been socially distancing for weeks and been at home for a week already, so part of my frustration is that I can do what I'm supposed to and there are still people out there being idiots about this situation. All I want is to be able to get some fresh air on my motorcycle on my normal daily commute and not be cooped-up in my house all day, but even though that's socially distancing I face fines and maybe an arrest for leaving my house because I'm not an essential worker; Meanwhile those morons keep partying and lengthening this for everyone else.

[SpikeSpiegel]

https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/newborn-in-connecticut-dies-of-coronavirus/2248709/

 

2nd Infant death in the U.S.A.

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

Telling laid-off or out-of-work people, 'Hey, it looks like you should have gotten a degree' isn't actually productive. You're obviously not one of the people that's losing their job, so maybe you HATE to say it but it's easy for you to say it. A lot easier to say than someone coughing up 4+ years of time and thousands of dollars for a college education during a pandemic. Hindsight is 20/20 and it's easy to point fingers, a college degree isn't possible/available for everyone. Also something of note; Those package and food deliverers are some of the biggest fields of essential workers, in my country anyway. Right now there are a lot of professionals with degrees that are just as out of work as a Waffle House employee, neither one has an income.

I agree with this.  I was seeing a story on how Ford designed a “low cost” $7000/per respirator and hopes to have it out in as little as a hundred days.  A hundred days?!   Useless.

 

degrees take years to acquire.  It’s pointless.
 

Point of irony about the respirator:

According to pro publica, a news source I know almost nothing about so I’m treating it as “somebody said” until I see it confirmed, that  There was one designed by philips 5 years ago for just this event that actually got through the FDA last year.  Philips isn’t making it of course though they took 13 million in development money from the IS government.  They just tarted it up and sold it overseas. 

[Uttamattamakin]

5 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

To respond to your edit earlier, I am not an architect. I'm a building modelling and CAD draftsman, but managing shared modeling files on projects we do is a complicated job, and with only two people in the office we don't have a huge fancy system for doing it offsite. Mainly because no one prepares for a pandemic that will lock them in their house for a month at a time away from their work. Construction is essential on specific projects, but CISA guidelines which are what is being used in my state now, only allow for certain types of projects to be considered essential and we're currently not working on them. 

 

 

Well lets see.  At one of the colleges I teach at we are simply doing our work with Zoom  and all other collboration via our MS office 365 account.  A sub for that cost about $100 for the office 365.  SOoo  you could get that and Zoom is free or 15 a month.  Then sync your files to One Drive and share a link to that folder with your co worker.  Sit on Zoom all day chatting and working on the same files.  
 

 

8 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

I'd be more positive if there were not knuckleheads going to beaches and spring breaking, or hopping state borders to get around bar closures. I've been socially distancing for weeks and been at home for a week already, so part of my frustration is that I can do what I'm supposed to and there are still people out there being idiots about this situation. All I want is to be able to get some fresh air on my motorcycle on my normal daily commute and not be cooped-up in my house all day, but even though that's socially distancing I face fines and maybe an arrest for leaving my house because I'm not an essential worker; Meanwhile those morons keep partying and lengthening this for everyone else.

I know EXACTLY what you mean.  Soo many people did not take this seriously at all.  (Might I hazard that you also watch 2/3 of this list  Peak Prosperity, China Uncensored, ADV China ? Those three channels were WAY ahead  of the wave on this. )    Callow young people are expected to be that way.  What I don't get is the politicians left, right and center who were more concerned with keeping the economy going, or using it to show the other side was bad.  Where I live until the governor of the state took action they were trying to keep colleges open.

 

My own students have been great.  I prepared the class for this.  I have always used online books, online homeworks, online test, and showed them how to use cloud collaboration to work on projects.  So this is not a HUGE problem for me. 

The darndest thing I was asked, helping other teacher,  

"how to put a scantron online".   

[Uttamattamakin]

3 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I agree with this.  I was seeing a story on how Ford designed a “low cost” $7000/per respirator and hopes to have it out in as little as a hundred days.  A hundred days?!   Useless.

 

degrees take years to acquire.  It’s pointless.

I never said what he has in that quote... not even in an earlier edit never at all.    Lets unpack the rest of this. 

 

4 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Ford designed a “low cost” $7000/per respirator and hopes to have it out in as little as a hundred days.  

AND

5 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

degrees take years to acquire.  It’s pointless.

You see how that is self contradicting right? 

I'd assume you're trolling but this is 2020, this is the internet, up is black, left is polkadotted, and humanity is losing a war with a virus while astronauts orbit the Earth. 

 

Please say April fools.