Windows 10 Violates User Privacy according to a Dutch Agency

[Phse0]

The Dutch Agency Claims that in the April Update of Windows 10 new privacy settings where introduced that might be unlawful

 

https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/dutch-windows-10-violates-user-privacy,news-61533.html

 

Quote

Microsoft's attempts to appease European Union regulators have fallen short. The Dutch Data Protection Agency (DPA) announced yesterday that it asked the Irish Data Protection Commission (DPC) to investigate "new, potentially unlawful, instances of personal data processing” in Windows 10.

The DPA originally complained about Windows 10's data collection in 2017. Microsoft responded by improving the operating system's privacy with the Windows 10 April 2018 Update, but in doing so it also introduced "new processing of personal data that might be unlawful," as the DPA put it. (The agency's announcement was only published in Dutch; an English translation was not available at time of writing.) So it wants the DPC to investigate.

 

So another investigation about data processing and Microsoft. I am curious if that will change anything. I would hope they would just stop collecting data, but i doubt they will...

[desertcomputer]

This is not new news ...windows 10 always to "spy" on user even if all tracking are disabled.

[jagdtigger]

11 minutes ago, desertcomputer said:

This is not new news ...windows 10 always to "spy" on user even if all tracking are disabled.

The problem is that average joe just doesnt care. They just say "i have nothing to hide" then stick their head into the sand....

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, jagdtigger said:

The problem is that average joe just doesnt care. They just say "i have nothing to hide" then stick their head into the sand....

Including yourself...since you're using the internet...

[AlTech]

13 minutes ago, desertcomputer said:

This is not new news ...windows 10 always to "spy" on user even if all tracking are disabled.

I respectfully disagree. This is a news topic.

[Stormseeker9]

3 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Including yourself...since you're using the internet...

So am I and everyone on this forum lol.

are we all the average joe?

 

[jagdtigger]

1 minute ago, Enderman said:

Including yourself...since you're using the internet...

Nope....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0chw9g5f5r9p789/Screenshot_2019-08-30_10-46-50.png?dl=0

Plus a whole lot of filtering done at the router level. So yes, i pretty much care.

[Spakes]

Same here... I'd like to share a thought one guy said on TED about this (not exact words though)...
"You have nothing to hide? Here's my e-mail, send me everything you have in your life or on PC..."

He received a total of zero e-mails up to this day.

P. S. I have some useful stuff for that in my signature (that thing below every post). Feel free to use it.

[captain_to_fire]

Isn’t this a retoast from a few years ago? 

 

[minibois]

Dutch to English translation of the original source:

 

First some context, this is the 'Autoriteit Persoonsgegevens' (later abbreviated to DAP) is a (non government) organisation that is responsible for the making sure companies are following the 'Algemene Verordening Gegevensbescherming (AVG, 'General Rules [for] Personal Data'. A European law introduced in May 2018. More well known as GDPR).

The DAP is one of many European privacy watching organisations, as all EU countries are supposed to have one. These organisations can then work together to ensure user data is processed correctly in all EU countries.

Quote

Microsoft has improved user privacy in Windows. That has been concluded after a recent check by the DAP. 

With this check, DAP did discover new ways of processing personal user detail, which are possibly not lawful. Because of this, the DAP has asked the Irish privacy supervisor to do another research into the user privacy of Windows users.*

 

What happened previously?

DAP did another investigation in 2017 about the privacy of Windows Home and Pro users. Microsoft processed user information unlawfully via telemetry. With this, the user privacy was violated. April 2018 was the last time Microsoft made changes to Windows as instructed by the DAP.

 

From further investigations it seems that these changes have introduced actual improvements [to user data processing]. Microsoft has upheld the agreement made. At the same time though, Microsoft is still retrieving different user data from a [literal/geographical] distance.

Microsoft is possibly still breaking the privacy rules.

 

European Collaboration

The DAP has shared the investigation results with other European privacy supervising organisations. Since May 2018 is the European Data Protection Law [GDPR/AVG] in effect. Since that date, European privacy supervising organisations have been retrieving complaints and signals of privacy violations by companies from outside the EU together.

The privacy supervisor in the country where the company has its European headquarters takes the lead in the investigation and can also take legal actions [e.g. fines, sanctions, etc.]

In this case, the privacy supervisor is Ireland, which is where the Microsoft Europe headquarters are located. Privacy supervisors from other countries can also pass along complaints or signals, so the DAP will stay involved.

The DAP's advice

The DAP suggest Windows users to pay close attention to privacy settings during the installations of Windows. Microsoft is allowed to process your user data when they asked your correctly.

Source: https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/nl/nieuws/microsoft-verbetert-privacybescherming-nader-onderzoek-nodig

 

Keep in mind pieces in brackets, with Italics are pieces I added to further clarify what is going on. Also, the point in the first piece about Ireland is explained in the last block of text. Keep in mind Ireland is not Northern Ireland, meaning Ireland is in the EU and uses the Euro for example. No Brexit for them.

2 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

Isn’t this a retoast from a few years ago? 

It's more of a sequel (the DAP report is from three days ago, August 27th) and it's partially a response to what has been done in the close to two years since the original investigation.

TL;DR: Microsoft has improved many original complaints, but has introduced new violations, according to the Dutch privacy organisation, the (D)AP.

[captain_to_fire]

12 minutes ago, Minibois said:

It's more of a sequel (the DAP report is from three days ago, August 27th) and it's partially a response to what has been done in the close to two years since the original investigation.

TL;DR: Microsoft has improved many original complaints, but has introduced new violations, according to the Dutch privacy organisation, the (D)AP.

So basically this is nothing then? 

 

[Phse0]

57 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Including yourself...since you're using the internet...

I don't really get it, are you saying everyone on the internet leaves some data behind? Or that we all don't care that we leave data behind? 

[desertcomputer]

1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

The problem is that average joe just doesnt care. They just say "i have nothing to hide" then stick their head into the sand....

They have nothing to hide and still they won't give me their passwords to their accounts.

[Enderman]

11 hours ago, Stormseeker9 said:

So am I and everyone on this forum lol.

are we all the average joe?

Yeah, most people refuse to acknowledge it and think a VPN and tor is "protection"

 

 

11 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Nope....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0chw9g5f5r9p789/Screenshot_2019-08-30_10-46-50.png?dl=0

Plus a whole lot of filtering done at the router level. So yes, i pretty much care.

10 hours ago, Phse0 said:

I don't really get it, are you saying everyone on the internet leaves some data behind? Or that we all don't care that we leave data behind? 

If you use the internet your data is being collected by the ISP, the ISP of every site you visit, your browser, your search engine, the websites you visit, the third parties that pay the websites for information, etc.

 

Oh and if you use a cell phone then even more stuff too.

[minibois]

10 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

So basically this is nothing then? 

 

I don't know how to respond to this..

Apparently in an April 2018 update of Windows 10, Microsoft made some DAP suggested changes, but there are still problems apparently.

[jagdtigger]

50 minutes ago, Enderman said:

If you use the internet your data is being collected by the ISP, the ISP of every site you visit, your browser, your search engine, the websites you visit, the third parties that pay the websites for information, etc.

FF, DDG, a whack ton of addons, filtering at the router level. Not much they can collect.... (I wouldnt share anything that isnt generic anyway, anything that is just remotely personal stays on my local storage.)

[Flying Sausages]

13 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

The problem is that average joe just doesnt care. They just say "i have nothing to hide" then stick their head into the sand....

There is no privacy anymore

 

Even in hotel, you will going to find hidden cameras in some hotels.

 

Same in public bathroom like I can't take a leak or dump at peace man?

[Enderman]

2 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

FF, DDG, a whack ton of addons, filtering at the router level. Not much they can collect.... (I wouldnt share anything that isnt generic anyway, anything that is just remotely personal stays on my local storage.)

Cell phones go through cell towers when not on wifi.

And still, even filtering at the router level there is still tons of information on you from any sort of email services, search engine, all the websites you visit, etc etc etc.

In addition, all the information the government has on you, assumming you're a registered citizen and not living off grid.

[LAwLz]

40 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Cell phones go through cell towers when not on wifi.

And still, even filtering at the router level there is still tons of information on you from any sort of email services, search engine, all the websites you visit, etc etc etc.

In addition, all the information the government has on you, assumming you're a registered citizen and not living off grid.

The world is not black and white like that.

Just because some companies might collect some information regarding you doesn't mean it is hopeless and nobody should give a damn about their privacy.

I mean, you're not giving me the password and account names to things like your bank account right? If we think in your black and white terms then if you are okay with your bank knowing all your financial details then why shouldn't you be okay with me having it too?

 

The person you are responding to are clearly trying to limit the amount of companies who has access to the information regarding them, and also limit the amount of information. Just because some data might still be collected doesn't mean it's a worthless effort, that they should just give up and let everyone take all the info they want.

 

 

I mean seriously, your argument is essentially "well your government knows that you're a registered citizen, so why not give Microsoft a ton of personal information?"

 

Hey Enderman. You're a registered citizen in Canada, so therefore you should be okay with me walking into your apartment without your knowledge. That sounds reasonable, right? After all, since the Canadian government has info on you it is completely useless to try and limit what other people might know about you, right?

[Enderman]

6 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

The world is not black and white like that.

Just because some companies might collect some information regarding you doesn't mean it is hopeless and nobody should give a damn about their privacy.

I mean, you're not giving me the password and account names to things like your bank account right? If we think in your black and white terms then if you are okay with your bank knowing all your financial details then why shouldn't you be okay with me having it too?

 

The person you are responding to are clearly trying to limit the amount of companies who has access to the information regarding them, and also limit the amount of information. Just because some data might still be collected doesn't mean it's a worthless effort, that they should just give up and let everyone take all the info they want.

 

 

I mean seriously, your argument is essentially "well your government knows that you're a registered citizen, so why not give Microsoft a ton of personal information?"

 

Hey Enderman. You're a registered citizen in Canada, so therefore you should be okay with me walking into your apartment without your knowledge. That sounds reasonable, right? After all, since the Canadian government has info on you it is completely useless to try and limit what other people might know about you, right?

I don't think you get it.

This is more like the police entering your apartment because they have a warrant, except in this case all the services you use, websites you visit, etc have the 'warrant' in the form of terms and conditions you agreed to.

 

If you don't agree, then the solution is to go off grid and stop using the internet and cell phones, because that's truly the only way to get privacy.

 

If you think a VPN or blocking some IPs in your router settings will give you privacy, there are thousands of other ways that all the sites and companies are getting your information.

[ARikozuM]

I love how this has devolved into "don't use the internet if you don't consent to having your privacy breached" arguments. Sorry, but I'll continue using the internet and fighting for data privacy and transparency. 

[LAwLz]

14 minutes ago, Enderman said:

This is more like the police entering your apartment because they have a warrant, except in this case all the services you use, websites you visit, etc have the 'warrant' in the form of terms and conditions you agreed to.

No it isn't like the police entering your apartment. This is a private company which has broken the law and illegally collected private information from users.

This is like if a private company illegally installed webcams in your apartment.

 

14 minutes ago, Enderman said:

If you don't agree, then the solution is to go off grid and stop using the internet and cell phones, because that's truly the only way to get privacy.

Or... The other solution is to try and limit what companies can collect on me and fight for stronger regulations to protect citizens.

You are acting like there are only two ways to deal with this. Completely give up on privacy and let anyone do anything, including breaking the law, or live in the woods.

Why do you pretend like those are the only two options?

 

Privacy is a spectrum and you act like you must either have complete privacy or none at all. How about we try and move towards a society where people have more privacy than they got today, but without going so far that everyone lives in the woods by themselves because "the government knowing your name is an invasion of your privacy!!!"?

 

Not using the Internet isn't the only way to get privacy. For example blocking a lot of the tracking on websites and in the OS provides as substantial boost in privacy compared to the default configurations.

 

 

 

I want you to give me the account detains to your email. If you don't want to give them to me then I want you to explain why you won't give them to me in a way that is consistent with the logic you have displayed above.

[Enderman]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

No it isn't like the police entering your apartment. This is a private company which has broken the law and illegally collected private information from users.

This is like if a private company illegally installed webcams in your apartment.

You gave them permission to.

[jagdtigger]

5 hours ago, Enderman said:

You gave them permission to.

Not really, especially when they circumvent measuers put in place specifically to stop it (hosts file, registry tweaks, etc)

[mr moose]

7 hours ago, LAwLz said:

 

 

I want you to give me the account detains to your email. If you don't want to give them to me then I want you to explain why you won't give them to me in a way that is consistent with the logic you have displayed above.

In that scenario you are not asking only for his information, but for control over his information.  Also there is a difference in the ideology of who is accessing said information, a government body that is supposed to ignore or delete information that is not pertinent to their search and non identifiable and letting your neighbors see everything.

 

AS you say, it is a scale, some people just sit further up the scale than others.