Intel Internal Memo Reveals that even Intel is Impressed by AMD's Progress

[mr moose]

6 minutes ago, Neftex said:

youre trying to argue your point of ryzen making money by saying it was top end product and it wasnt...

 

if amd gpus had similar price/performance difference from competition like they have in cpus, their mid range gpus would sell just as well, meaning they dont need "crowns" to make money.

 

 

Do you seriously want to try and argue that Ryzen is not the chief reason AMD are doing so well? Maybe you think Ryzen are shit, but the market disagrees and the market tells us otherwise.   As I and several other pointed out in several other threads,  market sales go up when you have a top end product.  many people consider threadripper to be a crown product, just because you don't doesn't mean it isn't and it certainly doesn't mean that it's performance had no impact on sales.

 

 

 

 

[Neftex]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

Do you seriously want to try and argue that Ryzen is not the chief reason AMD are doing so well? Maybe you think Ryzen are shit, but the market disagrees and the market tells us otherwise.   As I and several other pointed out in several other threads,  market sales go up when you have a top end product.  many people consider threadripper to be a crown product, just because you don't doesn't mean it isn't and it certainly doesn't mean that it's performance had no impact on sales.

lets break it up:

1) Do you seriously want to try and argue that Ryzen is not the chief reason AMD are doing so well?

i havent said anything like this

 

2) Maybe you think Ryzen are shit, but the market disagrees and the market tells us otherwise.

if we talk top end, yes ryzen wasnt comparable to intel products performance wise. why does market like ryzen? BECAUSE ITS SIGNIFICANTLY CHEAPER, BETTER VALUE. jesus dude how many times do i have to spell it out for you. ryzen didnt sell so well because of some performance crown (cuz it had none), it sold well because of its price/performance

 

3) market sales go up when you have a top end product.  many people consider threadripper to be a crown product

and again, ryzen and threadripper wasnt top end product. it was just cheaper

[Guest]

3 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

Ask all those who bought expensive but ultimately useless ram (until all the patches finally cam out) for first gen Ryzens what they think of validation.

You got me there. I remember that AMD-certified RAM or whatnot. Only other place I’ve seen that is AliExpress, where you can buy AMD-specific or Intel/all RAM, which I still have no idea why.

[Arika]

8 minutes ago, Neftex said:

i havent said anything like this

then i think you're arguing different points.

[Neftex]

3 minutes ago, Arika S said:

then i think you're arguing different points.

hes using ryzen sales as a "proof" of top end affecting amd sales to support his gpu argument in other threads

but ryzen wasnt top end. so his proof doesnt work, thats what im pointing out. sadly again

[Arika]

19 minutes ago, Neftex said:

but ryzen wasnt top end

Why don't you think they are "top-end"?

 

1800x the top end consumer ryzen processor was released 2 months after the 7700k intel's top end consumer kaby lake processor, they went toe-to-toe. Even the TR-1950x and i7-7980xe, the top-end HEDT chips were close enough for them to be accepted as competitors in terms of performance.

 

during kaby lake and first-gen ryzen the consensus was

intel for single core

ryzen for multi core

 

but maybe i'm misinterpreting what you're saying.

[Neftex]

3 minutes ago, Arika S said:

intel for single core

ryzen for multi core

single core intel, correct. but multicore also intel because xeons

[Humbug]

28 minutes ago, Neftex said:

single core intel, correct. but multicore also intel because xeons

You are including server parts?

Thought the discussion was consumer parts.

[Neftex]

4 minutes ago, Humbug said:

You are including server parts?

Thought the discussion was consumer parts.

im including the right tools for the job. you want multithread performance, then consider the multithread options

 

(some people bought xeons for gaming back in the day as well)

[leadeater]

22 minutes ago, Neftex said:

single core intel, correct. but multicore also intel because xeons

How are Xeons all that relevant? Also not Really because AMD EPYC also out core count those which has quite a few benefits beyond posting high CB numbers. Intel holds multicore on HEDT only just and only when overclocking beyond the capability most people have, and by that I mean in raw RAD area bigger and more is better not skill wise.

 

If you want to post a really high CB score, Luxmark, Blender, Corona etc you buy a 1950X/2950X or 2990WX and can leave them completely stock. It's not like those are cheap either.

 

These products hold what they have not because they are cheaper than Intel but because they have that true sense of class topping performance, while also being cheaper. There is no sense at all for years that you're getting class leading graphics performance from AMD.

 

AMD CPUs also managed to change the CPU market, AMD GPUs have done very little in comparison.

[Neftex]

5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

These products hold what they have not because they are cheaper than Intel but because they have that true sense of class topping performance, while also being cheaper. There is no sense at all for years that you're getting class leading graphics performance from AMD.

 

AMD CPUs also managed to change the CPU market, AMD GPUs have done very little in comparison. 

noone would buy them if they werent cheaper than intel, would you buy slower cpu for higher price?

 

yes, amd cpus did change the market because of their significant price/performance, amd gpus would change the market as well with that kind of price/performance difference from competition... i guess i dont keep mentioning this enough, or do i...

[Loote]

Zen was faster than Intel's CPUs in some workloads, Zen+ in a bit more and was losing less in others, even if Intel was better for more use cases, AMD wasn't and irrelevant choice, and cheaper at that. This means many companies would have to choose between AMD and Intel servers that both do the job, but AMD is cheaper. Then we have some specific use cases where AMD offers ECC/more PCI lanes etc. in lower price tiers.

 

From what I saw of this memo, Intel knows they will sell many processors just because the clients already have an Intel platform, but this also means that if AMD has significantly better prices, they will gain some of the hard to get customers who in turn, will be hard to get back.

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, Neftex said:

noone would buy them if they werent cheaper than intel, would you buy slower cpu for higher price?

But they aren't slower, that's the point.

[Neftex]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

But they aren't slower, that's the point.

then your point is wrong, they are factually slower

[Dylanc1500]

20 minutes ago, leadeater said:

How

Beat me to it!

 

Also to add, in most single socket or dual socket configurations, you might honestly be better off with something like a EPYC 7601 versus a Xeon platinum 8180/M (unless you are running AVX). That said, if you are going dense with quad or octo socket configurations, then obviously you'd be going Intel since AMD has nothing to offer in regards to that. So no, @Neftex they aren't always slower.

 

So it's not as simple as Intel has the best, or vice versa. It's entirely dependent on workload and configuration. Heck, in some instances you may go Z-series or even SPARC, maybe ARM.

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, Neftex said:

then your point is wrong, they are factually slower

How often do you pull out your chilly bin filled with iced water? Any other time Threadripper has superior performance except in gaming and if your primary use case is gaming and you have either HEDT platform you made HUGE mistake.

[Arika]

16 minutes ago, Neftex said:

noone would buy them if they werent cheaper than intel, would you buy slower cpu for higher price?

 

yes, amd cpus did change the market because of their significant price/performance, amd gpus would change the market as well with that kind of price/performance difference from competition... i guess i dont keep mentioning this enough, or do i...

You are literally arguing semantics. Your entire argument seems to be based on the assumption that @mr moose said ryzen are the best processors and are better than intel and that's why they sold so well.

 

Ryzen sold well, it's the reason AMD is able to make more amazing cpus and start improving their GPUs. The reason why they sold so well is irrelevant 

[Neftex]

2 minutes ago, Arika S said:

You are literally arguing semantics. Your entire argument seems to be based on the assumption that @mr moose said ryzen are the best processors and are better than intel and that's why they sold so well.

 

Ryzen sold well, it's the reason AMD is able to make more amazing cpus and start improving their GPUs. The reason why they sold so well is irrelevant 

ye, he brought his reason why they sold so well, i didnt agree. its all it is

[Arika]

2 minutes ago, Neftex said:

ye, he brought his reason why they sold so well, i didnt agree. its all it is

Then who cares? It's such a tiny reason to get all bent out of shape about across (apparently) multiple threads. 

[Kukielka]

4 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

Ask all those who bought expensive but ultimately useless ram (until all the patches finally cam out) for first gen Ryzens what they think of validation.

I'd buy B-Die any time again over any other DDR4.

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, Neftex said:

lets break it up:

1) Do you seriously want to try and argue that Ryzen is not the chief reason AMD are doing so well?

i havent said anything like this

 

2) Maybe you think Ryzen are shit, but the market disagrees and the market tells us otherwise.

if we talk top end, yes ryzen wasnt comparable to intel products performance wise. why does market like ryzen? BECAUSE ITS SIGNIFICANTLY CHEAPER, BETTER VALUE. jesus dude how many times do i have to spell it out for you. ryzen didnt sell so well because of some performance crown (cuz it had none), it sold well because of its price/performance

 

3) market sales go up when you have a top end product.  many people consider threadripper to be a crown product

and again, ryzen and threadripper wasnt top end product. it was just cheaper

I think the others have effectively clarified everything enough.

 

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, floofer said:

You got me there. I remember that AMD-certified RAM or whatnot. Only other place I’ve seen that is AliExpress, where you can buy AMD-specific or Intel/all RA which I still have no idea why.

I still see Ram with AMD stamped variants.

[cj09beira]

5 hours ago, Neftex said:

here we go again. ryzen wasnt top end product. intel pretty much held all performance crowns regardless. only reason ryzen was successful was that it was significantly cheaper

 

tldr: it wasnt some performance crown that sold ryzens. it was price/performance

 

unfortunately we dont see that big price/performance difference in GPUs and that is exactly why we dont see amd adoption there. and the new gpus dont seem to change much

its not as simple as that though, look at the Rx 470/ Rx 570 it has had the price performance crown for a long time, with much better performance than its competition but sales wise it doesn't seem to sell much better than other amd cards and not anywhere near what the 1050 ti does for example, so there is a good amount that is dependent more on brand perception than actual price/ performance

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

its not as simple as that though, look at the Rx 470/ Rx 570 it has had the price performance crown for a long time, with much better performance than its competition but sales wise it doesn't seem to sell much better than other amd cards and not anywhere near what the 1050 ti does for example, so there is a good amount that is dependent more on brand perception than actual price/ performance

 

Yes, the 1050ti have always been a shit buy on that score, but don't forget that the for the first 6 months of launch they were the only card available to many people becasue they were no good for mining.   Personally I'd like to see the sales figures after AMD stocks recovered from the mining craze, I think that would be very telling of market mindshare.

[Princess Luna]

Intel's secret sauce? Is that a joke?

 

What is it exactly? overcharge for features that should be mainstream by now such as unlocked multiplier and Hyper-Threading?

 

Overcharging someone for that overclocking capacity on HEDT x99 platform only so barely 3 years later you have to roll out security patch that disables overclocking on all of Broadwell-E?

 

Shipping an i7 with this:

Spoiler

Instead of something like this?

Spoiler

Intel has already changed a lot due to Zen and Zen+ reality shock. I can't stress enough how much I want Zen 2 to be a success so AMD starts dictating the standards.