Tesla h̶y̶p̶e̶ Hike - Tesla increases Supercharging prices globally

[CarlBar]

1 hour ago, Teddy07 said:

I think this is why Tesla is so successful in the US.

European car companies didn´t see this trend coming because they looked at European KW/h prices ~0,25 Euro.

 

 

haha, you must be joking. In the UK the price of petrol is around $7.25 a gallon. The difference in fuel pricing makes electric significantly better.

[YaBoiWill]

14 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

haha, you must be joking. In the UK the price of petrol is around $7.25 a gallon.

pound 10 in Asda for a litre of petrol. I legit make the 15 minute detour sometimes to save myself a few quid. 

 

 

electric cars are good, but they have a massive amount of embodied energy in their motors and batteries (the energy required to turn the material into the product) like copper and lithium. The recyclability of a lithium battery is also complex and expensive as the metal cant (atm) be turned into a new battery economically. It can probs be done, but at a higher price. So what happens to them? assume they're just dumped in landfill, which then brings its own plethora of problems to the environment. 

[Teddy07]

42 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

 

haha, you must be joking. In the UK the price of petrol is around $7.25 a gallon. The difference in fuel pricing makes electric significantly better.

That is indeed a valid argument. I haven´t thought about it when writing my post. Point for you sir!

[The Benjamins]

3 hours ago, Mr. Smiley said:

Buying new I find that very hard to believe considering a base model Tesla is $84,000 versus a $30,000 Accord. That means you would have to put $10,000 in service and extras a year in the Accord to break even. Buying used that might be different. 

 

All depends on what you drive. A Prius gets 58 city / 53 highway according to Toyota. At that mileage you are only paying four cents a mile ($2.24/53mpg), and the Prius is ~$50,000 cheaper new. That extra fifty thousand buys a lot of gas. 

Toyota pays people $15,000 to own a Prius, where do i sign up?

A Prius does not compete in the same class, it does not have anywhere near the same performance and driving characteristics as the Model 3 has. A model 3 starts at $32,900 + tax credits (can be up to 7,500 off)

 

0-60 times

Toyota Camry Hybrid 7.4

Toyota Prius Prime 10.1

Tesla Model 3 Base 5.6, dual motor 4.5 (40k), Performance 3.3 ( $50k)

260 mile range (base) or 310 mile range 

 

3 hours ago, NuclearPenske7 said:

I find it quite relaxing doing roadtrips in a Tesla. I've done SF to LA to LV and back in a 85D back in November and it wasn't really any slower than gas considering the usual breaks midtrip. Autopilot took away a lot of the fatigue that I normally had in a gas car doing the same trips. Kept it at ~85mph the entire way whenever the car's moving and not in traffic. It was definitely a lot nicer having our mid-trip stop between SF and LA at the Kettleman City Tesla lounge. It was super clean and there was In-N-Out right across the street. I feel that most people that don't think an EV can work for them are misunderstanding EVs. Change of habit is required, but once you're used to it, it doesn't take more time out of your life to own one than a gas car. I've had a Leaf for the past few years and charging at home means I don't have to go out of my way to refuel on a normal day-to-day commutes. Never needed service other than tires in the 96k miles I've put on this poor bastard. The dealer kept bothering me with service deals but they were just going to charge me to top up windshield fluids and rotate tires so I just ignore them. Brake pads still well over half at this point. I'm switching over to a 2015 85D later this year after having experienced one for a week with 1600+ miles logged. Cheaper to own than a $27-30k Accord within 5 years of ownership. 

 

That said, it's not for everyone. Charging infrastructure in your home area/state can make or break the decision to go EV.

I drive 1 hour to work each way, 40 miles, and now that I have a new Subaru with eyesight it makes the drive so much easier I don't have to touch the pedals for 95% of the drive. The system can't steer for me but it will do all the breaking and acceleration. 

[FPSwithaWacomTablet]

4 hours ago, The Benjamins said:

its faster now, can be 15 min.

 

but on a road trip, you can get food, go to the bathroom, relax during that time. a standard gass stop takes 5-10 min

Cattle would take you to your location and beef, if you don't mind the ranching and walking speed.

 

/s

[CarlBar]

2 hours ago, YaBoiWill said:

pound 10 in Asda for a litre of petrol. I legit make the 15 minute detour sometimes to save myself a few quid. 

 

 

electric cars are good, but they have a massive amount of embodied energy in their motors and batteries (the energy required to turn the material into the product) like copper and lithium. The recyclability of a lithium battery is also complex and expensive as the metal cant (atm) be turned into a new battery economically. It can probs be done, but at a higher price. So what happens to them? assume they're just dumped in landfill, which then brings its own plethora of problems to the environment. 

 

I used £1.25 as a sort of mid point between the two extremes possible.

 

Second, don't get me wrong there are issues with the electric vehicles we have now, they're not perfect by a long shot, but they're a lot cheaper to run than many assume, which was all  i was addressing.

 

2 hours ago, Teddy07 said:

That is indeed a valid argument. I haven´t thought about it when writing my post. Point for you sir!

 

Don;t worry about it, a lot of people from the other side of the pond are completely clueless as to petrol prices in Europe. Also thats a mid price estimate, the peak is somwhere around $8 a gallon. Admittedly you can get as low as around $7 a gallon too.

 

Incidentally the UK also has a closer to US electricity price, (around 16-17 cents a KW/h), but i suspect the level of engineering that goes into our grid plays a big part, (we love our tea). Video if you've never heard of the phenomenon before:

 

 

[Fetzie]

2 hours ago, The Benjamins said:

Toyota pays people $15,000 to own a Prius, where do i sign up?

A Prius does not compete in the same class, it does not have anywhere near the same performance and driving characteristics as the Model 3 has. A model 3 starts at $32,900 + tax credits (can be up to 7,500 off)

 

0-60 times

Toyota Camry Hybrid 7.4

Toyota Prius Prime 10.1

Tesla Model 3 Base 5.6, dual motor 4.5 (40k), Performance 3.3 ( $50k)

260 mile range (base) or 310 mile range 

 

I drive 1 hour to work each way, 40 miles, and now that I have a new Subaru with eyesight it makes the drive so much easier I don't have to touch the pedals for 95% of the drive. The system can't steer for me but it will do all the breaking and acceleration. 

I just checked the Tesla website from Germany. €55,400 for the cheapest option. Extended Autopilot feature is €5,200. If you want it not painted black, then it is 1,600 for blue, and 2,600 for red. In Europe, a Tesla isn't even close to the same price-class as a Camry or Prius. If you kit it out, you're talking closer to 65k. You can get a hell of a lot of car for 65 grand.

 

In fact, I clicked my way through the US configurator, and the cheapest you can make it is 44,000 USD, not including sales tax.

 

I pay 30-33 Euro for 25 litres of petrol that gets me 650-700 km in Germany in my Yaris hybrid (measured at the pump and on the odometer). That works out at 4.3-5 cents per km (my daily commute to work and back costs me about 70 cents in fuel).

[The Benjamins]

14 minutes ago, Fetzie said:

I just checked the Tesla website from Germany. €55,400 for the cheapest option. Extended Autopilot feature is €5,200. If you want it not painted black, then it is 1,600 for blue, and 2,600 for red. In Europe, a Tesla isn't even close to the same price-class as a Camry or Prius. If you kit it out, you're talking closer to 65k. You can get a hell of a lot of car for 65 grand.

 

In fact, I clicked my way through the US configurator, and the cheapest you can make it is 44,000 USD, not including sales tax.

 

I pay 30-33 Euro for 25 litres of petrol that gets me 650-700 km in Germany in my Yaris hybrid (measured at the pump and on the odometer). That works out at 4.3-5 cents per km (my daily commute to work and back costs me about 70 cents in fuel).

well Tesla is a small company in the car space, they are only make in the US, so importing the car is costly and any import taxes.

 

In Germany you can get a German car cheaper then the state so give and take.

[Bensemus]

9 hours ago, YaBoiWill said:

electric cars are good, but they have a massive amount of embodied energy in their motors and batteries (the energy required to turn the material into the product) like copper and lithium. The recyclability of a lithium battery is also complex and expensive as the metal cant (atm) be turned into a new battery economically. It can probs be done, but at a higher price. So what happens to them? assume they're just dumped in landfill, which then brings its own plethora of problems to the environment. 

Right now the batteries are installed into the grid. Once their weight to energy ratio is too poor for a car many companies, not just Tesla, use the batteries for grid storage. At that point space is cheap so using degraded batteries isn’t an issue. 

 

Besides recycling isn’t that hard. It’s more expensive then making a new one but Tesla and other companies have the processes in place, they just aren’t really needed yet as these batteries can have a effective life of a few decades. 

[paddy-stone]

Even at $2.85 a gallon for fuel, it's still vastly cheaper than the UK at around £5.62 a gallon, or $7.22 US.

[bcredeur97]

On 1/21/2019 at 12:25 PM, The Benjamins said:

its faster now, can be 15 min.

 

but on a road trip, you can get food, go to the bathroom, relax during that time. a standard gass stop takes 5-10 min

15min is usually till like 80% capacity, the rest has to be done slower because it's either bad for the batteries or dangerous or both to charge fast when it's nearly full.

 

which is fine if your 80% can get you far enough. Just annoying because that last 20% can take 2-3 times longer

[Real_PhillBert]

Even Ray Charles saw this one coming. Tesla simply could not be expected to continue free or reduced rate charging forever, it's just not economically viable. Add to that the fact that Tesla has been cutting down on spending and attempting to increase revenue in an effort to become profitable for the long term. 

 

Anyone who bought a tesla expecting the superchargers to be free forever, is a fool. 

[MetEishYa]

On 1/21/2019 at 9:19 PM, GoodBytes said:

• QUOTE

Maintenance is a lot cheaper on electric cars. However the battery has to be replace at some point which is a big cost if its out of warranty. They should get cheaper over time which will help a lot.

 

Safer is more of a car by car basis. As it stands today the safest rated road car is the Volvo XC60 (https://nypost.com/2018/01/12/safest-car-in-the-world-scored-nearly-perfect-in-crash-test/). Just because is electric does not naturally make it safer nor unsafe however there is good potential for them to be safer. Electric SUV should also be better for roll over because of the lower centre of gravity.

 

Overall an electric car should be cheaper to run than a gas car. Would like to try and then maybe own an electric car but none here in South Africa worth looking at and the infrastructure is non-existent to support EVs.

 

The big disadvantages that i see are more to do with Tesla then with EVs. Extremely high cost of damage repair (this will probably make insurance high), the long time to repair (can wait months), extremely long waiting time to get your car when purchasing a used Tesla from Tesla (can wait months), Tesla cars being very unreliable.

 

The next coming years are going to be interesting for electric car as all the big name are releasing there own Electric cars. Merc with the EQC, Audi e-tron. Hopefully they can improve the industry.

 

 

[D13H4RD]

Meanwhile, I still prefer my gas guzzling V12.

 

Sorry, but the sound whenever you go past 7000RPM is just too dang good not to look past.

 

Probs not ideal daily material, but who said it's going to be my daily?

 

[D13H4RD]

20 minutes ago, MetEishYa said:

Safer is more of a car by car basis. As it stands today the safest rated road car is the Volvo XC60 (https://nypost.com/2018/01/12/safest-car-in-the-world-scored-nearly-perfect-in-crash-test/). Just because is electric does not naturally make it safer nor unsafe however there is good potential for them to be safer. Electric SUV should also be better for roll over because of the lower centre of gravity.

If you don't count the human factor, an EV has some advantages when it comes to safety, both active and passive.

 

As mentioned before, some EVs (barring a few examples) usually does not feature a large, heavy object in the front of the vehicle between the bumper and the passenger cell, which means one less big thing that could potentially intrude into the cabin, inhibiting survival space. Another advantage is that a larger number of EVs have their batteries mounted on the floorpan, in a manner that would reduce the vehicle's center of gravity.

 

With all that said, once you add the human factor in it, it's a bit less predictable.

[MetEishYa]

13 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

If you don't count the human factor, an EV has some advantages when it comes to safety, both active and passive.

 

As mentioned before, some EVs (barring a few examples) usually does not feature a large, heavy object in the front of the vehicle between the bumper and the passenger cell, which means one less big thing that could potentially intrude into the cabin, inhibiting survival space. Another advantage is that a larger number of EVs have their batteries mounted on the floorpan, in a manner that would reduce the vehicle's center of gravity.

 

With all that said, once you add the human factor in it, it's a bit less predictable.

Agreed, Thats why i said has good potential for them to be safer.

 

The batteries are the biggest safety factor in EVs. The vehicle manufacture must take good steps to ensure the batteries don't get damaged in an accident. Tesla has done a very good job in protecting there batteries. 

 

Will be looking at future cheaper EV to see how they fair with this.

 

[D13H4RD]

Just now, MetEishYa said:

Will be looking at future cheaper EV to see how they fair with this.

They're definitely evolving. Wouldn't be surprised to see them become ubiquitous in a couple of years.

 

Still prefer my gas engines though XD 

[Tribalinius]

On 1/21/2019 at 2:19 PM, GoodBytes said:

Hybrid cars are no ideal. As you have they are far more complicated systems, more things that can break (electric portion AND car engine ), smaller batteries, heavier car (reduce travel distance - don't forget the weight of gas as well). I mean it is a great option if calculate that it can save you money or if you just want to reduce carbon footprint, which you still can with such car, but not a great choice for everyone.

At the moment, it feels that it comes with your physical location and battery technology more than anything else. I'm not sure I would go full EV with the last couple of days we had in our part. If we lived in Arizona, going full EV would have been a no brainer but, with -20 across the board in our dear province... I'd rather go with an hybrid. That being said, I'm not in the market to buy a new car for the next 5-6 years so, car manufacturers have plenty of time to come up with new ideas and new technology to change my mind :p.

[GoodBytes]

9 hours ago, MetEishYa said:

Maintenance is a lot cheaper on electric cars. However the battery has to be replace at some point which is a big cost if its out of warranty. They should get cheaper over time which will help a lot.

8 to 10 years depending on the manufacture, battery and depending how much battery life you need.

How come so long? Reserve power cell that the car has, uses high quality, latest Lithium-Ion battery technologies (which laptop manufactures and phone manufacture tend to not use, to encourage device replacement, and lower device cost, and maximize profits) or it doesn't use Lithium Ion or Poly batteries, but instead Lithium Iron Phosphate battery, which in summary doesn't allow as much energy to be stored as Lithium Ion, but lasts much longer.

 

So yes, when it comes to replace the battery, assuming that there is no price difference in battery cost from today and 8 to 10 years from now (and price adapted to inflation), a new battery will costs the same or more than the value of your car. But it will still be cheaper by a lot than buying a new car. Keep in mind that, assuming you don't have rust issues that can't be solved, and everything else works fine (which is possibility, I mean, you have car, in the rust belt regions that lasts 15-18 years before having major repairs, and those re traditional gasoline cars), it can be a valid option. And the market for used cars can adapt as a result, meaning, like gasoline car, if you have the spark plugs, timing belt and fan belts replaced, then you can re-sale the old car much easily and at a higher price, than if those where not and due very soon. Of course, I cannot predict the market future, just stating possibilities.

 

[Carclis]

On 1/22/2019 at 4:49 AM, Teddy07 said:

You can show your friends how cool and environmentally friendly you are.

That would mean that electricity being produced in your country was done so in an environmentally friendly manner? If the pricing for electricity is low making an electric car more appealing then it's very likely that it's not environmentally friendly.