Morality questioned by Pirates

[xiamandrewx]

10 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

Piracy is fine as long as you don't sell copies or anything. If you own it already, it's legal. For some TV shows, it's a necessity. 

I kinda thought this was the case. I definitely don't intend to redistribute the game. I just wanna play it again.

[xiamandrewx]

10 hours ago, dusanyu said:

Go to GOG the version of fallout 3 they sell works just fine on windows 10 in fact Good old games is rather good about making sure what they sell runs on current systems for example the copy of sim city 2000 i bought there yesterday, installed and configured Dos box for me the experience was seamless. 

Good suggestion. But I don't really want to pay for a game I already own. Especially since it was intended as a gift so that I don't need to buy the game. Lol! I will keep that in mind though. GOG would be free of all the DRM crap that is crashing my game.

[mr moose]

7 hours ago, MysteriousAeon said:

The guy was using it as an analogy as to why games don't have demos. "You can't try out the product in your grocery story." etc. It makes no sense to compare a game demo to a grocery store product.

grocery store products are consumables, you always have to buy more, games are one time purchases, there is a difference. But alas, the point is according to consumer law in many countries a game is considered a product for the purposes of being supported by all current consumer law.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, xiamandrewx said:

I kinda thought this was the case. I definitely don't intend to redistribute the game. I just wanna play it again.

Nah you’re alright, not your fault your paid product is not supported.

[JZStudios]

On 12/23/2018 at 12:50 PM, TetraSky said:

To be honest, in my opinion, piracy of games is only acceptable in three scenarios.

1- Where the original publisher decided to call it quit and literally made it so you cannot legitimately buy it anywhere anymore. (This is an issue with older games, primarily Console games, not so much on PC... unless it's things like DiRT 2 where they pull it off sales instead of just changing the music)
In fact, even some game devs and publishers have encouraged this before, like Hotline Miami 2 when faced with an Australian ban.
 

2- If they never bothered updating it to make it compatible with the latest OS/hardware but somehow pirates fixed it? (This is quite rare and even in your case, there are ways to make it work with your legal copies)

 

3- When you just want to try the game yourself and see how it runs on your PC prior to buying it (A demo if you will... If you finish the game and don't buy it, you're just a filthy pirate).

 

As for pirating something that you already own... Frankly, I see no problem with that. You've already given them your money. You could be using your legitimate copy, but if the pirated one is more convenient for you, go for it.

Game demos are the biggest reason aside from 1 that I'd ever really pirate something. Demos really need to come back, it sucks when you buy something on these damn digital storefronts and they don't work, run poorly, or you just don't like the game and end up not being able to get a refund.

Somehow people always defend not being able to get your money back when something doesn't work or you're unsatisfied. You can leave a movie and complain to the manager that it was terrible and get your money back. You can return food at a restaurant and get it replaced or get your money back.

[JZStudios]

16 hours ago, xiamandrewx said:

Good suggestion. But I don't really want to pay for a game I already own. Especially since it was intended as a gift so that I don't need to buy the game. Lol! I will keep that in mind though. GOG would be free of all the DRM crap that is crashing my game.

Lol, since GOG is DRM free, maybe you can find the pirated install files for it.

[JZStudios]

20 hours ago, TetraSky said:

It's really not the same thing and I don't understand how you could even think it is.

You normally can't return an opened bottle of milk after drinking a good portion of it just because you've decided "eh, I don't want it anymore", or any other such grocery items.
Groceries can be inspected, touched, smelled and judged based on your prior experience on other such items. (they are also a LOT less expensive compared to games)

You can't do that with a video game. They are usually unique in style, controls differently, runs differently on different machines and what not. Hence the importance of demos to try them before purchasing.

You could argue that there are youtube videos to let you "inspect" the games prior to buying, but you still wouldn't know if they are playable on your machine unless you find someone with a 100% similar computer as yours.

Hate to triple post, but fun fact, you can take back an empty bottle of wine to Costco and get a refund. They just don't like when you do it too much.

 

The other thing I hate with the argument of "Do shitloads of research before you buy a game" to me really kills the experience of the game in the first place, especially single player narrative games. How much research am I supposed to do? Should I watch a full LP of it? Why would I buy it now that I've seen everything?

It's a dumb argument that doesn't make sense. Game demo's give you a vertical slice of the game in either a non story spoiling way, or the first hour or so of gameplay, thus also not ruining the experience.

 

Something that made no sense in MGSV was the credits sequence before every mission, so there's never any surprises while you're playing. How is that fun?

[TempestCatto]

Most people who pirate do it because

1) the content is not available where they live

2) they wish to test if it will work

3) they wish to test if they will like it

 

and im probs missing some. But the people from above usually will pay the content creators back in some way. Or will get rid of the pirated content and purchase it. In your situation, Op, I would do it and not lose sleep over it.

[Mira Yurizaki]

45 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

The other thing I hate with the argument of "Do shitloads of research before you buy a game" to me really kills the experience of the game in the first place, especially single player narrative games. How much research am I supposed to do? Should I watch a full LP of it? Why would I buy it now that I've seen everything?

Go read reviews, go watch trailers, go see non-spoiler videos showing the game and how it's supposed to play. If a person can't make up their mind then, I still don't see how that gives them a "right" to pirate the game so they can try it out. If the whole purpose of pirating to demo a game is simply because someone wants to figure out if it's worth spending $60 or something, it's obviously too expensive for them and they should walk away and find something more affordable or play other games they may have.

 

All in all, I can't really side with "justified" pirating because it makes the gamer look entitled.

 

Besides, what about other entertainment items? Are you going to pirate a music album to see how all of the songs are before purchasing it? Are you going to pirate a movie and watch some of it before buying it? And really, at that point, why bother buying it? You have the entire thing.

 

And why can't we demand samples everything else before we buy it? If the whole core purpose of "pirating to demo" is sample the entire product before buying it, then why can't that be applied to everything else? Why are games such a sacred thing that requires this special treatment?

 

EDIT: I don't believe for a smidgen that demos should be a requirement in order to sell games. However, I'm more open to a refund policy, though it would have to be game time limited and ownership time limited. And something like Steam's policy I find to be acceptable. If a game isn't engaging a person within two hours, then maybe it's not going to engage them ever.

[Andreas Lilja]

On 12/23/2018 at 7:05 PM, SansVarnic said:

Legally and morally piracy is wrong, this is why it is called piracy. Piracy is not a victimless crime.

Who's the victim when said product can't be bought first-hand anymore? There's more than a few games out there that can only be bought on eBay at extremely inflated prices, by someone who has no IP rights. 

[Andreas Lilja]

22 hours ago, xiamandrewx said:

Wow, this gained more attention than I thought. Though I was hoping to cause a stir on the Internet, I want it to be known that I don't condone piracy. I don't do it normally because if I want to play a game I feel that the team who worked to develop the game deserve a paycheck, aka my money. However, in this odd case, Games for Windows Live is causing trouble with running it in Windows 10 on Steam. Obviously, I've followed the pinned super guide on steam or I wouldn't be turning to this final resort. I'm thinking a hacked version might just keep GFWL turned off from the start.

 

In my defense, I have tried everything to get the game to work through steam. I own the game, I have a key. I feel I have the right to play it. That's my moral standpoint.. turns out there's a lot of people who don't agree 

GOG version is fixed from the start and has the community patch as well. If you can't run it you didn't follow the guide correctly. 

[aigars2]

On 12/24/2018 at 2:05 AM, SansVarnic said:

Legally and morally piracy is wrong, this is why it is called piracy. Piracy is not a victimless crime.

Oh, this just gets my blood pumping, since Apple is calling repairing your own Iphone basically piracy. 

[wasab]

Morally acceptable, legally, pretty sure you are fine as well. Most courts wouldnt entertain lawsuits by big coportaions against individuals who pirate copies which they already own and for their own use. 

[wasab]

1 hour ago, aigars2 said:

Oh, this just gets my blood pumping, since Apple is calling repairing your own Iphone basically piracy. 

Apple hate club is recruiting. All apple haters welcome 

 

[Mira Yurizaki]

Some more two cents to throw in the lot, because why not.

 

If we define piracy to basically obtaining a copy without paying for it while the distributor is selling it, or basically stealing a copy, then I find "justifications" for doing this arbitrary at best. Distributor doesn't provide a demo so it's okay to steal the game to try? Can I go to where you work and not pay for whatever it is you're selling or providing because the company didn't meet some arbitrary thing I wanted from the company?

 

Well anyway, I feel like I'm sounding like a broken record.

[Princess Luna]

Just 3 words:

 

Too Many Launchers.

 

Furthermore is piracy only "cracking/tempering with game files" or is... hm lets call "exploits" to get the game for free also piracy?

 

You can actually get The Witcher 3 legit copy for free directly from Steam quite easily with a trick.... won't go further on it though not to get in trouble [:

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

Just 3 words:

 

Too Many Launchers.

 

Furthermore is piracy only "cracking/tempering with game files" or is... hm lets call "exploits" to get the game for free also piracy?

 

You can actually get The Witcher 3 legit copy for free directly from Steam quite easily with a trick.... won't go further on it though not to get in trouble [:

Piracy is getting paid digital media for free by illicit means.  If its fairly legitimate means, for instance the refund scheme on steam, then thats perfectly legal. If you were to use a cracked steam or someone else's steam account then that would be illegal. 

[Amazonsucks]

Piracy in general is much less damaging to a game dev than buying it off a gray market money laundering site like G2A. I dont pirate anything but i see much less of a moral problem with piracy than garbage like G2A and Kinguin.

 

With piracy you deprive the dev of potential money. With G2A you assist criminals in laundering money which hurts the people getting their creditcard info stolen as well as cost the devs actual money. 

 

If its a game you own, theres even less moral problem.

[Princess Twilight Sparkle]

Pirating PC games? Is this the early 2000s all over again? Lol

[wasab]

6 hours ago, Princess Cadence said:

Just 3 words:

 

Too Many Launchers.

 

Furthermore is piracy only "cracking/tempering with game files" or is... hm lets call "exploits" to get the game for free also piracy?

 

You can actually get The Witcher 3 legit copy for free directly from Steam quite easily with a trick.... won't go further on it though not to get in trouble [:

I pirate copies of steam games I ALREADY OWNED simply because pirated copies are stripped of their DRM thus work with WINE on my Linux machine. Anyone who thinks this is immorale with see me pointing a middle finger at em. 

[Giganthrax]

You would be morally wrong not to pirate EA games.

 

That being said, if you already paid for a game, and it doesn't work due to no fault of your own, I absolutely see no issue with pirating it if it will actually allow you to play the game that you paid for. 

[JZStudios]

On 12/24/2018 at 5:30 PM, M.Yurizaki said:

Go read reviews, go watch trailers, go see non-spoiler videos showing the game and how it's supposed to play. If a person can't make up their mind then, I still don't see how that gives them a "right" to pirate the game so they can try it out. If the whole purpose of pirating to demo a game is simply because someone wants to figure out if it's worth spending $60 or something, it's obviously too expensive for them and they should walk away and find something more affordable or play other games they may have.

 

All in all, I can't really side with "justified" pirating because it makes the gamer look entitled.

 

Besides, what about other entertainment items? Are you going to pirate a music album to see how all of the songs are before purchasing it? Are you going to pirate a movie and watch some of it before buying it? And really, at that point, why bother buying it? You have the entire thing.

 

And why can't we demand samples everything else before we buy it? If the whole core purpose of "pirating to demo" is sample the entire product before buying it, then why can't that be applied to everything else? Why are games such a sacred thing that requires this special treatment?

 

EDIT: I don't believe for a smidgen that demos should be a requirement in order to sell games. However, I'm more open to a refund policy, though it would have to be game time limited and ownership time limited. And something like Steam's policy I find to be acceptable. If a game isn't engaging a person within two hours, then maybe it's not going to engage them ever.

I didn't say it was a right. I said games need to have demos.

For example, everyone gushes over Rockstar Games and GTAV n such, how amazing it is, yadda yadda. I buy it, I don't particularly like the way it plays, handles, the story, the annoying gangster characters, and I'm basically screwed out of $60 because it's the hottest shit that has rave reviews in every aspect but I just ended up not liking it.

 

Going back to my Costco story, you can buy a wine that everyone raves about and tells you to try, decide you don't like it and get your money back. They probably won't take kindly to you doing it excessively repeatedly, but it's still an option that makes it risk free.

 

It has nothing to do with being able to spend $60 on a game. I don't mind paying full price for a game or bottle of wine, but if it plays like Fallout 76 or tastes like camel piss I want my money back. Just assuming people can't afford it is a stupid miserable mistake to make. I bought work shoes at JCPenneys that had a 3 month refund period, after 3 months when the soles fell off I returned them and bought another pair because they sucked and didn't hold up.

 

If games had a demo (They do free weekends for this purpose since it's supposedly hard to do "demo" builds) then people can try out the game for themselves over a 48 hour period to determine if they like it. Alternatively, maybe Steam could do a once a month guaranteed refund... with some less strict stipulations than what's already in place.

 

 

For music, well hell, there's Spotify and Pandora, both free with ads. Those are great to sample music, and both have a $10/month subscription for unlimited play of everything on their service. I'd like to see Steam adopt that approach.

 

Movies? They've been getting stretched out, but there's plenty of options. Amazon, Netflix, Hulu, Vudu. All also have $10/month subs I don't know if Hulu still does "free with ads" anymore, but Vudu has a small selection. The reality is actually, people are upset that there's so many "services" stretched around that they do pirate it because otherwise they'd need 10+ subscriptions. Watch anime? Well then you need Crunchyroll. Oh, you want anime from a certain studio? Well they have their own subscription. Want to watch Stranger things? That's Netflix. Sneaky Pete? That's Hulu. That's 4 subscriptions right there. At least with music you can go with Spotify or Pandora and get roughly the same thing.

Vudu also has ties with Wal-Mart... think Wal-Mart owns it, and a lot of DVDs and Blu-rays have Vudu codes so you can have it physically and digitally.

 

So why bother buying movies after you pirate them? Well that depends. Do you get upset watching movies on TV because you didn't pay for them? I doubt it. Have you ever seen a movie on TV and then bought the DVD? The only difference now is movies have a pay wall instead of being essentially free on TV. Minus the cost of cable or whatever.

Maybe you want to see the special features. Maybe you want higher res. Maybe you have an actual surround sound and want better audio.

 

Again, go to Costco. You can return everything except for smokes. Actually, most places employ refund periods or trials. It's how they entice people to try things risk free so they'll take the chance and impulse buy. Somehow games got to the point where people don't even do that, they impulse buy and splurge on $200 special bonus pre-order bullshit before the game even comes out so they have no idea what they're buying. They're like Tesla people.

 

I don't understand how people so vehemently defend these anti-consumer practices.

Want new shoes? Go to the store and try them. You don't just buy them, find they don't fit and go "Shit, guess I'm fucked out of $60."

Want a new TV? Go to the store, they have rows of TVs on DEMO for you to look at before purchase.

New speakers? Try them.

New car? Test drive.

New GPU? My store has a week long refund period.

New mattress? Try it in the store, and they still usually have a 30 day refund period.

Headphones? Try them in a store.

Guitar? Try it in a store.

Tables? Look in a store.

Phone? Store.

Clothes? Store.

Tools? Store.

Tires? Store.

Books? Store.

I'm running out of options here based on what's in my room. The fact is, 99% of everything you buy you can try out before you buy them, and even then you can still typically get refunds on them if you don't like them. Saying "Well why can't we demand samples everything else before we buy it?" is fucking stupid because it already works that way.

Not only that, but each of these products have a longer refund period than 2 hours. Who gives a shit if you can beat the game in 2 hours? If you do, and feel it's not worth your money, it's not worth your money. I have Ethan Carter and Edith Finch, both fairly pricey for the run time, but I enjoyed what they were and didn't refund them. It's another case where people say "Well some people pirate, and some people might abuse the refund system, so let's punish the other 95% of the population and just fuck them over, while the pirates are literally unaffected by it." Make a limitation for how many games you can refund a month or something. A 2 hour period is bullshit and I hate that people defend it saying Steam is like God for allowing us to get our money back for shit products. Well, only if they approve it anyways.

[JZStudios]

23 hours ago, Princess Cadence said:

Just 3 words:

 

Too Many Launchers.

 

Furthermore is piracy only "cracking/tempering with game files" or is... hm lets call "exploits" to get the game for free also piracy?

 

You can actually get The Witcher 3 legit copy for free directly from Steam quite easily with a trick.... won't go further on it though not to get in trouble [:

The Witcher 3 goes on such deep sale so frequently I'm surprised CDPR don't just give it away.

23 hours ago, SnowWolf370 said:

There are some old games.. Take "The Sims The Complete Collection" or "SimCity 3000".

 

These are both games I bought in the store, I have the physical CD releases in my hand, I install the game using these CD releases.

 

But thanks to Windows 10 I can't play the games because of how CD checking works, Windows 10 no longer has the software the game needs to check if the correct CD is in the drive, so the only ways I can play these games on Windows 10 is by downloading a no CD crack exe file.

 

I think in those kind of situations it's alright, I bought the game and installed it using the software. But I am using a modified exe file in order to play the game. Since it's borked with new Windows and I'm not interested in buying it off an online site...

Other instances are that there's a shitload of older games made by devs and studios that no longer exist. For example, Dead Space. Fuck you EA.

19 hours ago, Giganthrax said:

You would be morally wrong not to pirate EA games.

 

That being said, if you already paid for a game, and it doesn't work due to no fault of your own, I absolutely see no issue with pirating it if it will actually allow you to play the game that you paid for. 

Yep. I only owned BF4, but my email tied with the account got deleted so I couldn't access it, even though I could give my credit card info and proof of ownership. They "couldn't do anything" about it, so fuck em. I'd be royally pissed if I actually owned multiple games.

[Falkentyne]

I used to live on the newsgroups back in the day, when I had no money at all.  Almost everything I got was pirated.  Still have boxes full of CD's and DVD's and stuff.  Now with the advent of GOG and DRM free games, and since I'm doing a bit "better" financially now (still not doing great though) I now just buy all my PC games.  I will still pirate applications however.  Not spending $2,000 dollars for Keyshot Pro--nope and nope.  And console games...I'll buy the AAA stuff usually and flashcard the rest (only thing I have is a DS Lite). 

I'm a dirty person I guess

 

And I believe there's nothing wrong with getting backups of things you already own, e.g. cracking the copy protection of a game you actually bought, or downloading an emulated ROM of a game you purchased in a 'retro remake' package on MAME, etc.

[D13H4RD]

I stopped pirating long ago. I felt that there was no real reason to these days. 

 

The only exception? When finding a legitimate copy is literally impossible, and even then, it's rare since I keep my legitimate copies. 

 

I dislike piracy, but I dislike stuff like G2A even more.