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Lord Nicoll

[UPDATED] Der8auer States Some X299 Low End boards Have Bad VRM Coolers

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4 minutes ago, DildorTheDecent said:

>HEDT

>Single 8 pin connector

 

Avoid these crap boards then. 

 

Most of the ones I'm seeing are 8 + 4 pin.  I wouldn't even look at a single 8 pin with the power these 10c + chips are going to draw.  

 

That Apex is rocking a 8 + 8 and no VRM cooling issues.  That makes me happy.  :D


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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, done12many2 said:

 

Most of the ones I'm seeing are 8 + 4 pin.  I wouldn't even look at a single 8 pin with the power these 10c + chips are going to draw.  

Yeah, it's not even like an extra 4 pin costs much, but I bet even the 8+4 will be maxed out by the 12 cores, I'ma bet that only the 8+8 are worth anything. It should be noted that any board on the platform however should be able to support any CPU as per Intels spec, so clearly either Intel or these board makers have made oopsies.


Yours faithfully

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3 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

Most of the ones I'm seeing are 8 + 4 pin.  I wouldn't even look at a single 8 pin with the power these 10c + chips are going to draw.  

 

That Apex is rocking a 8 + 8 and no VRM cooling issues.  That makes me happy.  :D

nice nice. VI Extreme is 8 + 4. Should be doable for the 10C. 


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Just now, Lord Nicoll said:

Yeah, it's not even like an extra 4 pin costs much, but I bet even the 8+4 will be maxed out by the 12 cores, I'ma bet that only the 8+8 are worth anything. It should be noted that any board on the platform however should be able to support any CPU as per Intels spec, so clearly either Intel or these board makers have made oopsies.

 

Same thing happens with every platform.  My son's z170 board has a VRM that starts throttling with any 4 core at around 4.9 to 5 GHz.  It was just a cheap board so that's to be expected.

 

Agreed though, I'll end up with 8 + 8 as I've seen what too little can actually do.  

 

None of the x299 boards in Der8auer's video could really be considered anything but mid to low end for x299.  Each of the MB manufacturers named have much higher quality boards then those he tested with.  They just happened to be available to him.  We'll see how they adjust to recommendations. 


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5 minutes ago, DildorTheDecent said:

nice nice. VI Extreme is 8 + 4. Should be doable for the 10C. 

 

Honestly, while I do like having all of the extra cores for heavier workloads, I also like high single-threaded performance and I think we're going to see some sacrifice in that area with the HCC 12-18c parts.  I'm going to start off with the 10c and see what happens with the 18c before I jump on them.  


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40 minutes ago, DeadEyePsycho said:

As long as it beats Ryzen

In the mushroom cloud dept.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

Same thing happens with every platform.  My son's z170 board has a VRM that starts throttling with any 4 core at around 4.9 to 5 GHz.  It was just a cheap board so that's to be expected.

 

Agreed though, I'll end up with 8 + 8 as I've seen what too little can actually do.  

 

None of the x299 boards in Der8auer's video could really be considered anything but mid to low end for x299.  Each of the MB manufacturers named have much higher quality boards then those he tested with.  They just happened to be available to him.  We'll see how they adjust to recommendations. 

Yeah haha, I own both an ROG Maximus VIII Formual and an ASUS Z170-P, the difference is shocking, I really don't care much it costs, I will always use ROG boards. 


Yours faithfully

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1 minute ago, done12many2 said:

 

Honestly, while I do like having all of the extra cores for heavier workloads, I also like high single-threaded performance and I think we're going to see some sacrifice in that area with the HCC 12-18c parts.  I'm going to start off with the 10c and see what happens with the 18c before I jump on them.  

10C is probably the nice one for most performance users. A better 6950X for a cheaper price is rather nice. 


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Glad I chose an 8+4 pin. :D

 

And those temperatures: nothing a 92mm spot fan can't handle. :D 

 

At stock anyways, 3.6 base, 4.3-4.5 boost, highest core temp for me is 41 and package temp 50. VRM max 45. But I do run in cool ambients. 👍


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36 minutes ago, Lord Nicoll said:

Yeah, it's not even like an extra 4 pin costs much, but I bet even the 8+4 will be maxed out by the 12 cores, I'ma bet that only the 8+8 are worth anything. It should be noted that any board on the platform however should be able to support any CPU as per Intels spec, so clearly either Intel or these board makers have made oopsies.

i'm okay with cheaper 8/8+4 boards existing as there are people that will be running 7800x/7820x's (and 7640k/7740k's). Sure it makes things more complicated and that's bad, but if I'm going to buy a 7800x I'd rather save the money and get an 8 pin board since an 8+8 wouldn't get me anywhere. 


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44 minutes ago, lukart said:

I wish he had a look at asrock OC-Formula. That one is really targeted to overclockers...

Except it's 8+4 which is kinda "huh?"


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FYI, there is a good possibility the PSU used influenced this a lot. He's using the Superflower PSU with the transparent modular connectors. That particular model uses the same 9-pin connector type for ALL connectors. So the nine pins have to support +12 V, +5 V and +3.3 V and ground connections. Thus, if the voltage drops from the PSU to the EPS12V, the VRMs have to pull more current at the lower voltage than it would if the voltage were higher thus causing them to run hotter too. It has fewer +12 V connectors on the PSU side too, so voltage drop is a guarantee.

A lot of the info above came from JonnyGuru whom I was talking with just now about this, so he alerted me to this possibility. I did let Der8aurer know via a message but not sure he'll see it anytime soon.

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2 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

You can't blame Intel for this...this isn't the first 10 core CPU that the mobo mfg's have seen.  They were just being cheapskates.

 

Single 8pin has no business being on a X299 board.

 

Sure you can... going from an August launch to NOW FUCKING NOW release meant all development stopped and whatever design they had cobbled together was it. Had Intel not played a game of one upmanship this steaming pile of shit called x299 would have been less steaming.

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15 minutes ago, DoctorWho1975 said:

 

Sure you can... going from an August launch to NOW FUCKING NOW release meant all development stopped and whatever design they had cobbled together was it. Had Intel not played a game of one upmanship this steaming pile of shit called x299 would have been less steaming.

VRM design is the easiest thing to do on a board and they easily have done it enough times to be able to copy paste from another board on to X299.  Second, they make higher end X299 boards with better heatpiped VRM heatsinks, so this was clearly a cost-cut-corner-cut problem.  The only reason to blame Intel in this is because hey it's the hip thing to do this summer.

 

Third, it's the 10 core.  The 6950X has already *been* there.  This isn't a sudden "oh here's 18 cores #dealwithit".


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2 hours ago, done12many2 said:

Don't forget that "rushed" releases happen with both companies.  A platform plagued with memory issues and unoptimized definitely qualifies as "rushed", but I guess that depends on what company you root for.  

 

With that said, it's a shame that the MB manufacturers are releasing these boards with poor VRM cooling.  My x99 board has way better cooling out of the box than these things do.  How did they expect that they were going to get away with less VRM cooling on a platform that will consume more power on average?

Though there's a difference if a 1300$ platform (10 core CPU + Mobo) marketed for enthusiasts and prosumers has issues with overclocking while it was one of its strongest selling points or when a brand-new, completely remade mainstream platform & architecture that's under 400$ for an 8-core CPU + mobo has issues, especially in a market that was mostly dominated by Intel for quite some time with software optimized almost exclusively for it, of which some of the issues arose.

 

Also, people used beefy-VRM requirement for FX-8000 series as an argument against the platform and AMD for creating such power-hungry CPUs, yet some comments here say it's a non-issue...

 

EDIT: That's, if what der8auer said really is an issue.


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7 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Also, people used beefy-VRM requirement for FX-8000 series as an argument against the platform and AMD for creating such power-hungry CPUs, yet some comments here say it's a non-issue...

Because these chips can perform better than an i5. And because these arent going in peoples rigs who dont need more than a 500B


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Why would a single 8 pin have this much of an effect vs say an 8+4 pin?

 

Also, holy balls that's hot. Why should I have to buy a monoblock just to use my CPU. Plus if anyone is thinking you're OCing an 18 core to 4.5GHz.. just no, you were never going to be able to do that this year.


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3 hours ago, Notional said:

I honestly think this is a non issue. No one in their right mind will buy a 10 chip anyways. Just too expensive. Only youtubers getting it for free, might get these issues. And who cares about their free stuff breaking?

 

That being said, everything about x299 is a giant cluster frack.

Points in its favor:

-44 pcie lanes, it's the cheapest 44 pcie lane CPU from Intel

-if you're doint content creation and gaming and have a huge budget, it seems decent I guess?

 

For the most part though I agree with you, but I think there are a few, albeit niche, scenarios where it could be a decent idea.


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So: we have boards with the pcie and dimm slots for Skylake-X and the power delivery for KabyLake-X. 

I guess it's the result of the marvelous idea of having one 4 to 18 cores, gaming to server platform... :P

 

I think that's what may be happening: manufacturers don't want to overspend on the lower X299 end, with CPUs that could basically take motherboards copy-pasted from Z270. However, they cannot release separate boards, as omen requires support for the full lineup on all X299 boards. 

Hence, in order to compete, manufacturers have to release lower cost boards for lower cost "X299" builders, but they cannot cut down on the truly useless stuff for "CPU formerly known as 7700K", so they cheap out on what is left at their discretion, and "officially support" any socket 2066 CPU. If der8auer's findings are confirmed, the unofficial (or maybe "updated") support list for these boards will be considerably shorter. 

 

 

In other words: the trakeout isn't "X299 will catch fire, avoid at all costs", but rather that the "one platform, 300 CPUs" isn't really so (hence why he focuses on these boards). 

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Just now, DocSwag said:

Points in its favor:

-44 pcie lanes, it's the cheapest 44 pcie lane CPU from Intel

-if you're doint content creation and gaming and have a huge budget, it seems decent I guess?

 

For the most part though I agree with you, but I think there are a few, albeit niche, scenarios where it could be a decent idea.

I think the biggest upside to the Intel x299 CPU's are still somewhat better IPC, but mostly the higher frequenzy. Those are never bad things.


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1 hour ago, Clanscorpia said:

And because these arent going in peoples rigs who dont need more than a 500B

B? What's B? Bananas? Bartenders? Bras? Big booty bitches?

I don't know about you, but I don't need any in my system.

1 minute ago, done12many2 said:

 

Interesting. Quantity vs quality.  

I see you've chosen to take the quality route.

 

It isn't working, but that's not really that important.


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Just now, Drak3 said:

B? What's B? Bananas? Bartenders? Bras? Big booty bitches?

I figured you would know what an EVGA 500B PSU was


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Just now, done12many2 said:

 

Interesting. Quantity vs quality.  

Depends how "academic" you wish to be,  scientific journals can run upto 60 words per sentence with averages upto 30, while harry potter has just 12.

 

both harry potter and peer reviewed journals would be considered quality writing.


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Just now, Clanscorpia said:

I figured you would know what an EVGA 500B PSU was

A) Nope. Don't care much about EVGA's PSUs. I recall them being made by the same OEM as Corsair's, but not aesthetically to my liking, costing and performing similarly.

B) Jokes.


Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

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