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with OLED tv's on the rise, could light guns make a comeback?

Ashley MLP Fangirl
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so i was wondering, could light guns make a comeback now that OLED tv's are on the rise? 

 

when LCD's became mainstream they became obsolete because of the way the LCD works. a CRT is very similar to an OLED screen in that the pixels are lit individually, not all at once. i'd be curious to know if it worked on an OLED screen. 

 

i'd test it myself but i don't have an OLED display to test it with.... maybe LTT can test it or someone here who has an OLED screen and a NES with a zappergun... 

 

 

the logic i'm using here can be found here:

to me it seems like it should be able to work on an OLED but i'm not too knowledgable on it. 

She/Her

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I highly doubt it as we have much better technology that isn't as primitive. I'm sure you could do it again and it would be very low power but there are better options that are more precise. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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6 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

I highly doubt it as we have much better technology that isn't as primitive. I'm sure you could do it again and it would be very low power but there are better options that are more precise. 

primitive technology isn't bad per-se. duck hunt still amazes me everytime i play it even though i know how it works. 

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I don't think it got anything to do with the backlight, more to do with the input lag.

LCD have higher input lag than crt, so the gun doesn't catch it on time.

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All modern monitors have the problem of latency ... those light guns work by  blanking the screen when you press the button, and you get a hit if the light sensor in the gun detects you aim at a block of light (the duck)

with old crt, you could run that low resolution at 60 Hz+ so you a guaranteed frame every 15ms or so ... you press the button and the game can react almost instantly and next frame is guaranteed to be usable for the gun.

 

With oled and ips, you could have up to 2-3 frames of latency, maybe even more, so it could take 100+ ms of you holding the button to catch that blanked frame. So the gun would have to wait up to 50-100ms or even more from the moment you push down on the button, to see if one of those blanked frames will pop up.

 

Also, you have some obvious misconceptions.

 

when LCD's became mainstream they became obsolete because of the way the LCD backlight works. a CRT is very similar to an OLED screen in that the pixels are lit individually, not all at once. i'd be curious to know if it worked on an OLED screen. 

 

There's no backlight, that's a difference, but it's not the reason why crt monitors worked with light guns. By design, crt monitors work by throwing electrons out of a gun heating phosphorus on glass so it produces light. Pixels don't have fixed size, so that's how you can get rectangular pixels which allow you to get weird resolutions working.

 

Nowadays there's really little need to light guns as they were back then .. .you could have sensors or cameras on the corners of your monitor which record the gun and detect the shape and angle (where you're pointing the gun) a few hundred times a second and as soon as you press the button it knows the area of the screen it's aiming at.

 

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3 minutes ago, mariushm said:

All modern monitors have the problem of latency ... those light guns work by  blanking the screen when you press the button, and you get a hit if the light sensor in the gun detects you aim at a block of light (the duck)

with old crt, you could run that low resolution at 60 Hz+ so you a guaranteed frame every 15ms or so ... you press the button and the game can react almost instantly and next frame is guaranteed to be usable for the gun.

 

With oled and ips, you could have up to 2-3 frames of latency, maybe even more, so it could take 100+ ms of you holding the button to catch that blanked frame. So the gun would have to wait up to 50-100ms or even more from the moment you push down on the button, to see if one of those blanked frames will pop up.

 

Also, you have some obvious misconceptions.

 

when LCD's became mainstream they became obsolete because of the way the LCD backlight works. a CRT is very similar to an OLED screen in that the pixels are lit individually, not all at once. i'd be curious to know if it worked on an OLED screen. 

 

There's no backlight, that's a difference, but it's not the reason why crt monitors worked with light guns. By design, crt monitors work by throwing electrons out of a gun heating phosphorus on glass so it produces light. Pixels don't have fixed size, so that's how you can get rectangular pixels which allow you to get weird resolutions working.

 

Nowadays there's really little need to light guns as they were back then .. .you could have sensors or cameras on the corners of your monitor which record the gun and detect the shape and angle (where you're pointing the gun) a few hundred times a second and as soon as you press the button it knows the area of the screen it's aiming at.

 

gooot it ok, i thought the backlight had something to dow ith it as well. do OLED's still process just like LCD's do?

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Just now, Ashley xD said:

gooot it ok, i thought the backlight had something to dow ith it as well. do OLED's still process just like LCD's do?

of course, and also oled monitors don't always have all three color elements the same size and some oled tvs are even wrgb (white, red, green and blue elements) to reduce burn when showing white.

Some colors produce more light compared to others so there has to be a processor which adjusts the levels of color and brightness to how the specific oled material in the tv works.

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4 hours ago, mariushm said:

All modern monitors have the problem of latency ... those light guns work by  blanking the screen when you press the button, and you get a hit if the light sensor in the gun detects you aim at a block of light (the duck)

with old crt, you could run that low resolution at 60 Hz+ so you a guaranteed frame every 15ms or so ... you press the button and the game can react almost instantly and next frame is guaranteed to be usable for the gun.

 

With oled and ips, you could have up to 2-3 frames of latency, maybe even more, so it could take 100+ ms of you holding the button to catch that blanked frame. So the gun would have to wait up to 50-100ms or even more from the moment you push down on the button, to see if one of those blanked frames will pop up.

 

Ehm, Some OLED TVs have about 9,7ms input lag or whatever it was.

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42 minutes ago, Mihle said:

Ehm, Some OLED TVs have about 9,7ms input lag or whatever it was.

well, 9.7ms is still more than a CRT which has basically 0, so... 

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I don't think your standard type of light gun game would sell well these days. Just point and shoot would make most gamers board. 

 

VR offers a much better and more immersive experience and isn't just tied to shooters

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2 hours ago, Arika S said:

 

I don't think your standard type of light gun game would sell well these days. Just point and shoot would make most gamers board. 

 

VR offers a much better and more immersive experience and isn't just tied to shooters

 

I still play a game of duck hunt every once in a while, it’s still fun as fuck

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2 hours ago, Arika S said:

I don't think your standard type of light gun game would sell well these days. Just point and shoot would make most gamers board. 

do you realize how many people play call of duty? there is no challange. the AI is predictable AF and it's just a point and shoot game. there is no strategy... 

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2 minutes ago, Ashley xD said:

do you realize how many people play call of duty? there is no challange. the AI is predictable AF and it's just a point and shoot game. there is no strategy... 

Thats the sad fact of a lot of games, to add an AI that can change the way it plays will be too power intensive and to hard (Atm technology is making it better) to make them learn how you play...

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14 minutes ago, Ashley xD said:

do you realize how many people play call of duty? there is no challange. the AI is predictable AF and it's just a point and shoot game. there is no strategy... 

Call of duty is hugely different to light gun games. It's either a static position or on rails like time crisis. CoD at least has some kind of "strategy" in terms of positioning and movement

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10 hours ago, Ashley xD said:

so i was wondering, could light guns make a comeback now that OLED tv's are on the rise? 

 

 

Nope. Light guns required the entire screen to display black and show a white rectangle. The light guns only did a "yes/no" for a hit, and some timing determines which rectangle was hit.

 

Now, that said, some kind of CMOS-camera based light gun would be possible. The Wiimote actually used an IR sensor and a small camera. That's how it worked. The IR LED's in the emitter is how the wiimote determined position and orientation along with the accelerometers. So with a CMOS camera, just use the old-school trick with the hitboxes, but instead of making it something that requires the screen to flash, make the trigger create a silhouette of all targets without removing the background.

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7 hours ago, Ashley xD said:

well, 9.7ms is still more than a CRT which has basically 0, so... 

That's false, CRT is about 8,3ms on a 60hz one.

Reason is that it takes about 16,6ms for one image to be shown on screen from start to finish because how CRT works. Input lag is usually messured in the middle of the screen. Middle of the screen is halfway through a scan or whatever you call it, so 16,6/2=8,3ms.

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10 hours ago, Mihle said:

That's false, CRT is about 8,3ms on a 60hz one.

Reason is that it takes about 16,6ms for one image to be shown on screen from start to finish because how CRT works. Input lag is usually messured in the middle of the screen. Middle of the screen is halfway through a scan or whatever you call it, so 16,6/2=8,3ms.

ah right that's true. if you were to run one at 144hz then that would help i guess. 

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A part of this problem is that arcadey games (lots of light gun games were arcade games) kinda died off years ago. Yeah, you could bring back something like The House of the Dead or a Duck Hunt-type game, but there’s not gonna be much interest in it. It’ll be very niche.

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