Windows The Worse OS?

[AngelaHornung]

Before anyone gets pissed, this is not a defense of bad practices for any company but rather a genuine critique in the loss of quality in the Windows platform. I used to be an avid Windows fan and user (had the phone and everything), I switched to Linux for quite a few years and currently daily drive an M1 MacBook Pro. There are negative practices that Apple and Google both partake in which annoy me to no end (like the complete absence of repairability/upgradability in Apple Products or the spyware that Google's software has become). 

 

1.) Ads/bloatware

A paid product should not have sponsored applications installed nor should it install applications without my distinct permission. This kind of behavior is the mentality of a piece of malware. The fact that in Windows the only way I've found to turn it off too is using registry edits is ridiculous. Windows isn't the only ones who do this nor is it the only Microsoft product that does this, but I certainly find it to be the most egregious, especially considering it will reinstall these applications you've removed every other update or so. Also, Microsoft, MY CLIENTS DON'T NEED THE XBOX GAME BAR INSTALLED ON ANY OF THEIR MACHINES, LET ME REMOVE IT!!!

 

3.) Microsoft Accounts & Office 365

How come Microsoft Accounts are required to set up Windows 11 (I know the work around, but still)? I don't want one, nor do I want to have to set up every machine for my clients with one. Let it go. Apple I'm including you in this one as well because while you'll let me set up a machine without an Apple ID which is better, you still send out annoying reminders occasionally like Windows. Knock it off you two. Also how come an Office 365 Account can't also be a Microsoft Account but a Microsoft Account can also be an Office 365 account? If its an account through you, it's a Microsoft Account and it should behave as such end of story. 

 

3.) Browser switching

Stop with the guilt trip about Microsoft Edge! Yes I understand it is more efficient and yes Microsoft, you finally have a decent web browser built in, but people have traditions and platforms they prefer. Stop the guilt tripping, stop the pain in the *ss set up to change the default browser and calm down. Its one button after install to change your default browser in Mac, Mac will still let you know that Safari is better in their opinion, but after that they seem to just let it go, which is how it should be. Linux is even better with this, they'll just let you switch, no guilt tripping, no "this version is better", just a simple switch and done. 

 

4.) Allowing non-administrators to install applications through their application installer

I discovered something funny, non-administrator users can install applications on their work PCs for my clients as long as they use the .msix through Application Installer. Why? They're not administrators so they can't install applications on their own. I don't trust them with that power regardless of whether the application is from you or not. 

 

5.) License Upgrading

Sometimes machines with Windows Pro aren't available and we will occasionally (only during emergencies like someone is starting and needs a machine immediately) purchase a machine with Windows Home which is more readily available/cheaper for the same spec typically. We will then upgrade the license to Pro so that we can join the machine to the local Active Directory (why isn't this included in Home). To do this we need a Microsoft Account to run the purchase, why can't I just provide the payment details, YOU TAKE MY MONEY AND THEN ASSOCIATE THE LICENSE WITH THE MACHINE AND STFU! 

 

6.) Killing Off Hardware

Why are you not allowing some systems to upgrade to Windows 11 that are otherwise perfectly fine? I understand not everything can run, but there are plenty of 6th & 7th gen Intel chips that can run your shitty OS fine enough to merit a client to save a couple bucks in the short term. Plus these machines make for great second hand devices for those who don't have the cash for new hardware, so why not just let them run the OS. It's bad enough they want to use your products but now you have to gate keep them too? I get that some hardware is too old, but I think you're killing off way more than necessary and idk why. Also for those who work around it and get Windows 11 going on unsupported hardware, don't be a dick and put a watermark there, people usually do this to keep hardware they can't afford to replace atm going for just a bit longer. Apple, you're guilty of this too and personally this behavior is unacceptable!!! 

 

7.) Phone Integration

Phone Integration on Chrome OS for Android users and iMessage for iOS users is fantastic, Windows for some reason has not been able to get on board. Anytime I've used it or helped clients who use it, its constantly losing access, dropping messages, not getting notifications and the only thing that fixes it is to completely reset it, like what the heck?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of these complaints weren't present not too long ago, I actually loved Windows 10 in the beginning. I'm not here to just crap all over Microsoft and talk about how Apple is superior because it's not (title might be a tad click baity). What I want to point out and discuss is that there seems to be a major decrease in the quality of Microsoft Windows releases to the point where right now while I wouldn't by any means state that Apple or Google is king or anything, they're definitely at the moment the better options for most applications in my perspective, and that list of most applications is only growing. They're also less whiney about everything, I think thats what pisses me off the most. I feel like all of Microsoft's products except for Office have been going down the drain lately and it's sad. In WAN show Linus said "you want a hungry Apple" and I could not agree more! I also want a hungry Microsoft, I miss the Microsoft the made the 360 and released Halo 1-3 and was corporate but also a little edgy and willing to take some risks, but ultimately was determined to manufacture quality products despite the hiccups on the path to do so (Windows Vista). I feel like that Microsoft is dead and it's thrown a once life long Microsoft fan into the Apple eco-system. Hopefully it changes. Thanks for reading, I just needed to rant after a long day of dealing with Microsoft BS at work. 

 

• Xbox is pretty much dead and honestly I'm so close to just liquidating my Xbox stuff and being Nintendo only.
  • Nintendo has their own issues too with the whole emulator nonsense and copyright striking everything with their music, but they at least have exclusives and I don't see ads on the Home Screen of my Switch, I only see them when I go under Nintendo News which makes sense and is fine as long as it stays in there like it has thus far.
• Windows & Edge have continued to get whinier and whinier guilt tripping you to stay on Edge and begging people to upgrade to their half baked mess of an OS Windows 11 all while shoving Microsoft Accounts down your throat with Teams, using their products feels like talking to a possessive romantic partner whose worried you're going to leave them, its obnoxious. 
• Windows Phone, they just killed it years ago after not putting anymore effort into it despite buying a whole company for like 5 billion dollars (really worried these studio acquisitions are a parallel to what happened with Windows Phone, a last ditch desperate half assed effort)

 

 

 

[manikyath]

2 minutes ago, AngelaHornung said:

A paid product should not have sponsored applications installed nor should it install applications without my distinct permission.

agreed.. but tell that to the HP's, dells, and MSI's of this world that have been doing that for as long as windows has been around. all that's happening now is that microsoft would really like a slice of that cake.

 

3 minutes ago, AngelaHornung said:

Microsoft Accounts & Office 365

How come Microsoft Accounts are required to set up Windows 11 (I know the work around, but still)? I don't want one, nor do I want to have to set up every machine for my clients with one.

because within microsoft's corporate structure windows is part of the azure ecosystem. it is essentially seen as an extension to their cloud products.

 

i dont agree with this move at all.. but just so you know, that's why they are doing that.

 

4 minutes ago, AngelaHornung said:

Stop with the guilt trip about Microsoft Edge! Yes I understand it is more efficient and yes Microsoft, you finally have a decent web browser built in, but people have traditions and platforms they prefer

this is VERY valid.. in fact in the early days there was an actual lawsuit over "internet explorer just existing on the platform", and now they're actually hostile takeover-ing your chrome tabs...

 

5 minutes ago, AngelaHornung said:

Allowing non-administrators to install applications through their application installer

I discovered something funny, non-administrator users can install applications on their work PCs for my clients as long as they use the .msix through Application Installer. Why? They're not administrators so they can't install applications on their own. I don't trust them with that power regardless of whether the application is from you or not. 

some applications can be installed within the user profile. they dont touch anything that requires administrator, and they dont affect other users. this 'problem' has existed since the dawn of windows.

on that note - on linux you can technically stuff as much garbage into your own profile, and even run stuff as a service the moment you log in without ever needing root... it's just more manual.

 

8 minutes ago, AngelaHornung said:

To do this we need a Microsoft Account to run the purchase, why can't I just provide the payment details,

this might have changed since the last time i've had to do this, but upgrade keys for windows 10 home to pro have existed.

 

8 minutes ago, AngelaHornung said:

Why are you not allowing some systems to upgrade to Windows 11 that are otherwise perfectly fine? I understand not everything can run, but there are plenty of 6th & 7th gen Intel chips that can run your shitty OS fine enough to merit a client to save a couple bucks in the short term.

they've taken the decision to require TPM, because microsoft products all use TPM for login management. it comes back to the azure thing, and beyond that it's microsoft throwing their weight at hardware vendors (looking at you, HP...) that refused to integrate this actually very interesting security tool into anything not meant for business use. it sucks, it's a horrid decision IMO, but i see why they did it.

and hey.. at least it means that turning off TPM is a surefire way to not have sudden windows 11 appear on my machines.

 

11 minutes ago, AngelaHornung said:

Phone Integration on Chrome OS for Android users and iMessage for iOS users is fantastic, Windows for some reason has not been able to get on board.

it's almost as if google and apple dont want to work well with windows because they have their own operating system to push.. perhaps it's a really good experience with windows phones /s.

 

i've got 6 years of IT experience, serving both regular home users and major businesses.. and i can tell you.. this garbage is why i left IT. microsoft has hit market saturation, and the only thing they can do to grow is sell the same people more products they dont need.  i've seen 15 employee businesses rack up $40k/month azure billing for what's essentially just an office suite with some plugins.

[emosun]

I actually didn't read most of your post

 

But I'm willing to bet a lot of your concerns would be fixed with a modded version of windows.

 

Lmg is kinda up in the air regarding privateering , but effectively if you paid for it you should be able to modify it to your hearts content

[Mumintroll]

Windows 7 was the last good Windows OS. It was stable, it wasn't bloated, simple and great for a gaming rig at the time.

Great memories.

[RollyShed]

It appears you are stuck with commercial use of the computers concerned.

 

You do use the word "Linux" near the start and for those of us not "stuck" with commercial integration but handle domestic users, it appears we are the lucky ones.

 

Linux Mint with Cinnamon desktop and FREE, powerful, reliable, logical computing.

Yes, well over a hundred installations so I do have a little bit of experience.

Some of these have been done to save users from MS disaster such as wiped machines and non-logical operation, etc.

 

As for the mention of Windows 7, tearing more hair out the other day to get things working and Firefox the only browser it admitted to, eventually. LibreOffice fixed the other problem.

[jaslion]

3 hours ago, manikyath said:

because within microsoft's corporate structure windows is part of the azure ecosystem. it is essentially seen as an extension to their cloud products.

 

i dont agree with this move at all.. but just so you know, that's why they are doing that.

This is 100% what messed things up royally.

 

You are now an extension of a license. No longer a user a licenense with not enough addons yet.

 

Saw that major shift from 7 to 8 where the whole "ecosystem" became a thing that was heavily encouraged and then basically hard enforced with 10 and all the software as a perpetual paid service with as little user agency as possible way of thinking.

 

Everything is cloud focused now to the point that they are again trailing cloud computer for all users with the actual computers just being thin clients basically. All for insane prices for bussiness and not affordable for consumers.

 

3 hours ago, manikyath said:

rack up $40k/month

Exactly. Its extraxting every cent for what used to be basically an onsite server deployment of 15k for 5-7 years + 150 or so maintenance cost a month. With then a bussiness license for office 20xx of a couple thousand for the next 7-10 years of use.

 

Now its basically that cost every month or so for not really an improved feature set by much.

 

I'm genuinly curious how long windows server is going to still be around with the same level of control as it offers now. Its really been feeling like the sunset years are here now especially ever since 11 rolled around.

 

Seeing this cost go up exponentially thing happen at one work rn again. Going off local to the cloud for better management and availability of services yet the uptime hasnt increased since the move 2 years ago and the cost has gone up many times.

 

One site is still on prem due to simply having too much data and well they are working fine and dandy as always even having better remote working operations since almost nothing is bound to a microsoft account and all runs through vpn, AD and all that stuff. Keeping management of the users quite simple and quick.

[manikyath]

6 hours ago, jaslion said:

 

Saw that major shift from 7 to 8 where the whole "ecosystem" became a thing that was heavily encouraged and then basically hard enforced with 10 and all the software as a perpetual paid service with as little user agency as possible way of thinking.

 

Everything is cloud focused now to the point that they are again trailing cloud computer for all users with the actual computers just being thin clients basically. All for insane prices for bussiness and not affordable for consumers.

i'm blaming satya nadela personally for this.

under steve ballmer windows was this archaic pile of bloat, caking on more and more things onto a decades old design philosophy...

under satya nadela windows got trimmed down A LOT, which is good.. but they then also trimmed down the team responsible for making it a coherent platform.

 

6 hours ago, jaslion said:

Exactly. Its extraxting every cent for what used to be basically an onsite server deployment of 15k for 5-7 years + 150 or so maintenance cost a month. With then a bussiness license for office 20xx of a couple thousand for the next 7-10 years of use.

the stunning thing about that $40k example is that their entire thing could be replaced with onedrive and sharepoint included in their office suite.. but someone told them they need to have virtual desktops in the cloud, even though the experience is certified genuine worse™

 

azure does a lot of cool stuff.. it's just that no one uses those, and instead people get sucked into the idea of needing horrendously expensive garbage that adds nothing of worth.

 

one of the setups i'm the most proud of in my 6 years of IT was an AAD setup where any new laptop just needed to be signed in with business credentials, and azure would -over the course of 30 minutes or so- deploy a douzen pieces of software, some that were manual drag&drop installs before, and provide the user with a "store" of optionals that are just one-click installs.

made such a setup once.. as a demo, for the IT company's own AAD... and never ever sold that concept to a customer.

[jaslion]

4 hours ago, manikyath said:

one of the setups i'm the most proud of in my 6 years of IT was an AAD setup where any new laptop just needed to be signed in with business credentials, and azure would -over the course of 30 minutes or so- deploy a douzen pieces of software, some that were manual drag&drop installs before, and provide the user with a "store" of optionals that are just one-click installs.

This is the way. I had 1 client who had a very similar setup but also had a local ad server for specialized machines and old machinery vms.

 

Was a treat to work with and not too complex to maintain (I came in after a major it team issue causing the 5 people to leave and the problem manager to be fired after). With the little documentation only took me 3 weeks to get it going well again. Just never quite got the ancient sap system to auto install on 11 but well a rubber ducky usb stick and 10 seconds later it was on the way to patch the .net 2.5 package with whats needed.

 

Azure can be great but well the buzzword throwing sales offices are there for money and money only. So perpetual issues and service contracts are like crack cocaine on a golden platter for them.

 

Ita gonna be a bubble that may be bursting sometime as that pure massive monthly cost is enough to massively impact a bussiness whilst most could just do with a basic e3 or e5 office 365 sub and basic azure or hell just a basic win server install on a budget network storage device.

[Donut417]

17 hours ago, AngelaHornung said:

1.) Ads/bloatware

To be honest the things you mention dont bother me that bad. BUT the fact they are trying to push ads on us does. I HATE ads and I wont be a part of this stupidity. I generally turn off this type of bullshit. I do agree however that if there are things like Game Bar, you should be able to uninstall those features or at least disable them.

 

17 hours ago, AngelaHornung said:

3.) Microsoft Accounts & Office 365

As far as Office is concerned I wont sub to it, I have enough subs as it is. I use Google for my productivity needs. As far as the Microsoft account I think they need to make it easier for those who dont want to use one to create a local account. I like the MS account only because it stores my Windows key which makes installations easier.

 

17 hours ago, AngelaHornung said:

3.) Browser switching

I hate that they try to push their browser on me. I have been using 3rd party browsers since Windows 98 SE. I currently use Firefox and Safari (iPhone) and they suit my needs. Im warry of any Chromium based browsers as Google is trying to take away my ability to prevent ads. Again I HATE Ads.

 

17 hours ago, AngelaHornung said:

5.) License Upgrading

As far as home not being able to connect to AD, this is been the standard forever. Back in the Windows 9x days you used Windows NT for business needs. During the XP days they moved to the Home vs Pro. Personally I think this is fine. Because they made the average consumer version of Windows cheaper, any time a product is for a "business" its just more expensive, it is what it is. As far as needing the MS account for upgrades, I do agree that they should be provide an update key or something to that nature for those who dont want to use MS accounts.

 

17 hours ago, AngelaHornung said:

6.) Killing Off Hardware

This kinda pisses me off. My mom has a perfectly good PC, it works for her needs. But doesnt not have the right TPM module. So now she will have to upgrade come sometime next year. Sure I can hack Windows to make it work, but I dont want to have to troubleshoot it when Microsoft breaks it, or it has activation issues and what not.

 

 

Overall Ive been really impressed of how well the Steam Deck works for gaming. Because I have a Macbook Pro and kinda like MacOS, its likely sometime in the future I may not have a Windows device.

[AngelaHornung]

2 hours ago, Donut417 said:

To be honest the things you mention dont bother me that bad. BUT the fact they are trying to push ads on us does. I HATE ads and I wont be a part of this stupidity. I generally turn off this type of bullshit. I do agree however that if there are things like Game Bar, you should be able to uninstall those features or at least disable them.

 

As far as Office is concerned I wont sub to it, I have enough subs as it is. I use Google for my productivity needs. As far as the Microsoft account I think they need to make it easier for those who dont want to use one to create a local account. I like the MS account only because it stores my Windows key which makes installations easier.

 

I hate that they try to push their browser on me. I have been using 3rd party browsers since Windows 98 SE. I currently use Firefox and Safari (iPhone) and they suit my needs. Im warry of any Chromium based browsers as Google is trying to take away my ability to prevent ads. Again I HATE Ads.

 

As far as home not being able to connect to AD, this is been the standard forever. Back in the Windows 9x days you used Windows NT for business needs. During the XP days they moved to the Home vs Pro. Personally I think this is fine. Because they made the average consumer version of Windows cheaper, any time a product is for a "business" its just more expensive, it is what it is. As far as needing the MS account for upgrades, I do agree that they should be provide an update key or something to that nature for those who dont want to use MS accounts.

 

This kinda pisses me off. My mom has a perfectly good PC, it works for her needs. But doesnt not have the right TPM module. So now she will have to upgrade come sometime next year. Sure I can hack Windows to make it work, but I dont want to have to troubleshoot it when Microsoft breaks it, or it has activation issues and what not.

 

 

Overall Ive been really impressed of how well the Steam Deck works for gaming. Because I have a Macbook Pro and kinda like MacOS, its likely sometime in the future I may not have a Windows device.

October 14th 2025 is when Windows 10 loses support. 

[AngelaHornung]

20 hours ago, emosun said:

I actually didn't read most of your post

 

But I'm willing to bet a lot of your concerns would be fixed with a modded version of windows.

 

Lmg is kinda up in the air regarding privateering , but effectively if you paid for it you should be able to modify it to your hearts content

Unfortunately modifying Windows is one of the issues. We need to set up machines for clients fast, I don't want to deal with modifying an image just because Microsoft ants to shove their crap down my throat. Thats part of my complaint! XD 

Screw Microsoft.

[AngelaHornung]

Seems like the consensus overall is in agreement with my general inquiry. For my personal usage just to alleviate my headache, I've decided to liquidate all of the few remaining Microsoft products I own and switch completely to their competitors. Nintendo will be taking over completely where Xbox once was, my Mac and its office suite (Page and Numbers) will be taking over where Windows and office once were (Windows much longer ago). 

 

By no means do I expect things will change due to this as I'm one nerd, but it makes me feel a bit better knowing they aren't getting my money anymore for as long as time continues. It's just unfortunate as there are is one franchise and one game on Xbox I'll be missing. Halo & StarWars Battlefront II. 

 

Also I know Nintendo and Apple have been jerks too, I just don't think they've been nearly as cruel or whiney to their customers in proportion to what they offer as Microsoft has. The lesser of two evils in my perspective, but by no means not an evil. Like switching out smoking for Zyn, same poisonous stimulant, just perhaps less harmful to consume in this new manner. 

[Donut417]

22 minutes ago, AngelaHornung said:

October 14th 2025 is when Windows 10 loses support. 

I know, not a big deal. I moved to Windows 11 on my system. My mom either will buy a new machine or switch to Linux.

[da na]

I'll ride Windows 7 into the ground. I used to be all in on Windows 10 but when they started adding the AI tools and stuff like 8 months ago I downgraded most of my machines back to Windows 7 Ultimate. It runs faster, is stabler, and can do most things Windows 10 can.

They should offer a bullshit-less version of Windows. I've see a growing dissatisfaction among people, not just tech-minded individuals, regarding Windows's increasing bloatedness - maybe make Windows 11 Pro free of garbage? I feel like they'd bring MORE users that way.

[Alan G]

For me it is what applications are critical and what OS runs them.  Adobe Creative Cloud is not available for Linux and that rules it our right up top.  I don't want to be fooling around with a dual boot machine.  The post-retirement consulting and Board work that I do requires Office apps:  Ouitlook, Word and Excel.  Yes, there are probably work arounds with those but it's not easy.  I've upgraded to Windows 11 and all three PC at home are linked to a Microsoft account.  I host my website on Azure which is pretty much free.  I've used Microsoft OS from back in the MS-DOS days and have had barely any issues with any new iteration.  I actually like some of the AI features that are being rolled out.  I find they help out a lot with technical editing which is important to me.  I've been using Edge for the past six months and have pretty much stopped using Firefox.

 

You can take all of this with a grain of salt as I've been a Microsoft shareholder for 30 years now.

[RollyShed]

4 hours ago, Donut417 said:

I know, not a big deal. I moved to Windows 11 on my system. My mom either will buy a new machine or switch to Linux.

"or switch to Linux." is the best idea. I've dealt with so many and no problems once it is done.

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, RollyShed said:

"or switch to Linux." is the best idea. I've dealt with so many and no problems once it is done.

Not sure how she would like Linux. The issue is, while I have some patience and experience with Linux, she does not. The other issue I just thought of, I dont think iTunes works for Linux, and she kinda needs iTunes for her iPod.

[Mark Kaine]

Tldr: Sledgehammer 

 

Real tldr: Linux exists... ~

 

There! 

 

 

[Mark Kaine]

7 hours ago, da na said:

I'll ride Windows 7 into the ground. I used to be all in on Windows 10 but when they started adding the AI tools and stuff like 8 months ago I downgraded most of my machines back to Windows 7 Ultimate. It runs faster, is stabler, and can do most things Windows 10 can.

They should offer a bullshit-less version of Windows. I've see a growing dissatisfaction among people, not just tech-minded individuals, regarding Windows's increasing bloatedness - maybe make Windows 11 Pro free of garbage? I feel like they'd bring MORE users that way.

agreed, they're getting worse... however for gaming you kinda don't have a choice - unless you go consoles only 

 

(lotsa games simply don't run on anything but win 10/11... its typically an artificial limitation,  its there nonetheless) 

 

- sony, more like wokestation - not an option 

 

- nintendo, most anti-consumer company on the planet  - not an option 

 

- xbox, its windows,  but worse - not an option 

 

That leaves the Ouya? lol no thank you

 

 

[da na]

12 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

agreed, they're getting worse... however for gaming you kinda don't have a choice - unless you go consoles only 

 

(lotsa games simply don't run on anything but win 10/11... its typically an artificial limitation,  its there nonetheless) 

 

- sony, more like wokestation - not an option 

 

- nintendo, most anti-consumer company on the planet  - not an option 

 

- xbox, its windows,  but worse - not an option 

 

That leaves the Ouya? lol no thank you

 

 

I think if you see my game selection you'll understand lol

[RollyShed]

3 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Not sure how she would like Linux.

"It's all in the mind." as they say, British humour show 1950s-60s and so very true. iTunes probably via WINE.

 

So many who have never used a computer for decades of their life, then mentally get stuck on the first system they have to use.

 

It would be interesting / amusing to see how my mother would get on but too late by many decades. She was someone who could strip down and service her Austin 7 cars (1930s), design houses (her trade), service electrical appliances (before retiring) so I suspect open minded to look for the best technology. My partner, Windows one day, Linux the next (after MS totally destroyed things 2018) and carried on getting the jobs done including running business finances.

[Mark Kaine]

2 hours ago, da na said:

I think if you see my game selection you'll understand lol

yeah... i was actually thinking for retro games that would make sense maybe... i should really fix my vista pc... so many games and apps that were really cool (half of them don't even run on 10 lol)