Computers 'do not improve' pupil results, says OECD

[patrick3027]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34174796

Investing heavily in school computers and classroom technology does not improve pupils' performance, says a global study from the OECD.

The think tank says frequent use of computers in schools is more likely to be associated with lower results.

...

Annual global spending on educational technology in schools has been valued at £17.5bn, by technology analysts Gartner. In the UK, the spending on technology in schools is £900m.

The British Educational Suppliers Association (BESA) says schools have £619m in budgets for ICT, with £95m spent on software and digital content.

But Mr Schleicher says the "impact on student performance is mixed at best".

The report says:

• Students who use computers very frequently at school get worse results
• Students who use computers moderately at school, such as once or twice a week, have "somewhat better learning outcomes" than students who use computers rarely
• The results show "no appreciable improvements" in reading, mathematics or science in the countries that had invested heavily in information technology
• High achieving school systems such as South Korea and Shanghai in China have lower levels of computer use in school
• Singapore, with only a moderate use of technology in school, is top for digital skills

I've always thought giving kids computers for the sake of giving them computers is a stupid idea. Glad there is finally a study that proves it.

And computers are just the tip of the iceberg, I can't imagine a kid learning something on a tablet. It's a media consuming device, they'll never be creative with a device which such crippled functionality. iFixit made a great article on the subject: http://ifixit.org/blog/765/ever-broken-a-textbook-beyond-repair-now-with-ibooks-you-can/

Anyway: do you have access to computers in your school? Do you think it impacts learning?

[minibois]

What does using computers have to do with grades? It would improve how good you are with computers.. your grades for classes are irrelevant to PC's IMO.

 

Do I have access to PC's at my school? Yes.

Does it improve learning impact? Uhh.. Try writing C# code on paper. It doesn't work.

[Bob Jim]

Umm well then.... Our school this year just introduced iPads for everyone in the school, with over 40 required apps....

[escape093]

At least a third of the computers in my school are still running Core 2 Duos.

[boboman342]

Computers at my old high school were mostly just for people who didn't have one at home. Just like ones at an old library, equally as shitty. 

[TheMcSame]

Yes... We have access to computers in my college.

 

Do I think it impacts learning? In my case, it does, positively. Why? Two of my subjects are done wholly on a computer and would take FAR more time and waste plenty of paper to accomplish the same thing. The teacher for my third subject is only in once a week and I don't know of any other teacher that teaches it (at my college).

 

 

In general though, I can see why it would make students perform worse, the PCs we have in our common room, are mainly used for games and watching videos on youtube. We were also recently give tablets, not sure what others use them for but I doubt it's for work.

It's a case by case thing though (imo), some people will abuse the privilege, others will use it to aid their education.

[patrick3027]

Does it improve learning? Uhh.. Try writing C# code on paper. It doesn't work.

That's what I'm trying to say. Of course you need a computer if your studies involve the use of computers but we shouldn't be trying to 'computerise' everything to the point where kids can't write a sentence by hand.

Am I the only one who facepalms when reading this kind of articles: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/cursive-writing-obsolete-schools-teach-programming-instead/ ?

[themaniac]

well i need a computer to even do anything for my school

[kwljunky]

 

 

Depends entirely on the context of use COU, so if it can be used in some way to facilitate learning for example: 

 

Maths class full of kids, no books. The aim is not to do sums in books, but rather apply a maths concept to solve a problem. Good way to do this is something like giving the kids like a game pad kind of thing, and ask a question, kids answer. 

 

The whiteboard is turned into a like a screen, projected from a laptop shows the replies of students. This can be altered based on seating patterns and stuff making it easier for the teacher to focus on. Makes it much more enjoyable, Instant feedback and analytics to show where a students strengths and weaknesses are. This will allow for maybe running a extra session or two with particular set of students to brush up on the skills. 

 

You look at a pile of books that need to be marked, vs this system. It will visualize a students progress and what they know and don't know, way better than a bunch of ticks and a grade.

 

This however requires a departure from a what I am calling, very outmoded ways of teaching. The problem that this a OECD highlights, is that computers are being pushed onto students, rather than looking at the advantages they can bring to learning, and adapting it, by scrapping dumb outdated ideas.  

[minibois]

That's what I'm trying to say. Of course you need a computer if your studies involve the use of computers but we shouldn't be trying to 'computerise' everything to the point where kids can't write a sentence by hand.

Am I the only one who facepalms when reading this kind of articles: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/cursive-writing-obsolete-schools-teach-programming-instead/ ?

Well, looking at how poor my writing is and how often I use a PC or phone, I never write anything anymore..

 

Either way, cursive is bs. Do you see any 30 year old still write in cursive (other than doctors)? Well I don't, that's because other type of writing are often easier too read. And write IMO.

[DigitalHermit]

Rather than 'to improve results' the spending on education is more geared towards creating a fast, uniform, convenient and cheap medium for the facilitation of information imo...

 

just getting the info faster to the user... in the end it's up to the user when it comes to utilizing the information...

 

edit:

@kwlijunky hit the nail on the head...

 

the current model of teaching is starting to get outdated... we need to experiment with more personalized models that focuses on the individual to develop his strengths and minimize his weaknesses rather than just giving out a lecture to a crowd of students...

[Sauron]

The use of technology in school should improve student and teacher coordination, not the amount a student learns. If a student wasn't learning as much without technology, there would be something seriously wrong with the teaching. Using a laptop as opposed to a bagful of books and notebooks for example vastly reduces the load a student has to carry on his/her back and allows a faster and more efficient deployment of school texts and exercises as well as making handing in assignments a lot less chaotic and easier on everyone involved. Pertinent media can be accessed directly on the student's terminal. Information that is not provided directly by the school can be searched and accessed in a matter of seconds. What's not to like?

 

EXCEPT... this only works if everyone involved knows how to use the system. Unfortunately a lot of teachers take pride -yes, I said pride- in not understanding technology. They will refute anything that is not the 50-year-old way of doing things that they used when they were in high school, and if forced to do so will do all they can to not make it work and blame the technology for every problem they have. It is therefore no wonder that the systems implemented up to now have mostly been ineffective. What's the point of using a car if the guy who's supposed to drive it insists on pushing it on foot? Not only that, but schools tend to buy the cheapest equipment possible expecting it to be perfectly fine for 10 years, when it'll be borderline unusable in a month. What advantage can you possibly take from using a computer if it takes 15 minutes to boot it and open the program you need? If it becomes sluggish whenever you open anything more than notepad? If it uses windows xp and outdated software and doesn't let you update any of it?

[patrick3027]

Well, looking at how poor my writing is and how often I use a PC or phone, I never write anything anymore..

 

Either way, cursive is bs. Do you see any 30 year old still write in cursive (other than doctors)? Well I don't, that's because other type of writing are often easier too read. And write IMO.

I'm writing all my notes by hand at the university.

I read a great scientific article about the cons and the pros of taking notes by hand or using a laptop a few years back. In summary: typing on a laptop is faster than writing by hand which means you can have more complete notes when using a laptop than by writing by hand. This comes with a disadantage though: people using laptops are more inclined to take 'literal' notes. This means they'll note down word by word what the teacher says. People using handwriting have to summerise the information given because they are limited in the amount of notes they can write down. This means they 'pocess' the info when taking notes, something laptop users don't.

In the study, the people who took hand-written notes had better results than laptop users in a test done right after the lesson was over. This was the case for both open-book tests (where students had access to their notes) as closed-book tests.

This doens't mean you should stop taking notes on a laptop, especially if you're working in the tech sector. I'm just saying that for some people, taking notes by hand makes sense and I think it should be thaught on school no matter what. I'm studying to become a pharmacist and I can't see myself taking note of a complex chemical formula on a laptop...

[DigitalHermit]

-snip-

 

and this is the case where tablets with proper styluses and good handwriting recognition software come in handy...

 

you can have both handwritten and digital notes without the need for paper...

[patrick3027]

and this is the case where tablets with proper styluses and good handwriting recognition software come in handy...

Until your battery dies...

[DigitalHermit]

Until your battery dies...

 

That's what these bad boys are for...

 

Translation (from left to right)

My battery ran out.

I wish I had a computer.

My iPad is missing

 

Those are plain notebooks btw...

 

a camera and handwriting recognition software should be enough to make up for the notes taken when the device is out of batteries...

[Toddwjp]

computers have to be used to improve teaching, just having them wont improve anything

[dragosudeki]

What does using computers have to do with grades? It would improve how good you are with computers.. your grades for classes are irrelevant to PC's IMO.

 

Do I have access to PC's at my school? Yes.

Does it improve learning impact? Uhh.. Try writing C# code on paper. It doesn't work.

This study was about whether PC affected grades. Not whether grades translated to success.

[GoodBytes]

A HUGE problem, is that most people, even when I was at university doesn't know how to use their tools (computer), and many uses it as a distraction device (check Facebook and so on). Not to mention huge number of students where using Word to try and type notes... and trying to do a math equation that popup in a theory class on a laptop... it takes so much time for them, that they don't focus on the class, but rather how to put their stuff on the system.

Don't get a hammer if you don't know how to use it, as teh saying goes. And don't try to figure it out how to use your software when you are there in class.

For me, my computer has helped hugely in my studies, and has helped be more efficient, organized, and probably and most likely helped boost my grades. I learned to use my software and found the best software during summer time. So I think that it is matter of knowing how to use the tools you have, and many/most don't have a clue.

As for high school, schools are pushing "computer in class rooms", but there is no proper systems, or ideas of proper implementation of it all. So, schools gets students iPads, but you can't do anything due to the lack of knowledge from the professor to know how to use it properly, not to mention: device limitation as the school don't know what to get, and gets what is popular instead of what is right, and lack of software designed for the classroom, and schools not knowing about them.

[Merry]

Bro, lemme explain it to you :

Whatever the tools you give to a kid, that's not the point.

What you gotta understand, is that learning and education require specific processes, and our actual education system is based on incremental improvements over decades/centuries/...
Just giving a kid the exact same education, weither it's on a computer, in books, orally, ... Doesn't really influentate the kid's future.

Now what I'm thinking, it's that computers, books, oral, teachers ... Can only reach a limit when teaching to a kid, and that computer can raise this ceilling over other methods.

But it requires long-term planning, devellopment of educationnal programs, tutorings, ... And especially a higher ceiling of the education given itself.

Long story short : if you spend 10 years teaching 1+1 = 2 to a kid, he'll have as good results weither he learnt on a computer or from a teacher with 30 years of experience.
Now, if you accumulate the knowledges, stats, referencing and feedbacks on a teaching method that's 1000% better at collecting them than the others, there you'll have significant results.

And you having biased opinions about tablets, like previous generations had about computers, rock-and-roll and others, has nothing to do with the efficiency of new methods.

[Doobeedoo]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34174796

I've always thought giving kids computers for the sake of giving them computers is a stupid idea. Glad there is finally a study that proves it.

And computers are just the tip of the iceberg, I can't imagine a kid learning something on a tablet. It's a media consuming device, they'll never be creative with a device which such crippled functionality. iFixit made a great article on the subject: http://ifixit.org/blog/765/ever-broken-a-textbook-beyond-repair-now-with-ibooks-you-can/

Anyway: do you have access to computers in your school? Do you think it impacts learning?

Yeah, I agree with tablet part. At least teach them something useful and something they could apply in life later on.

[Doobeedoo]

well i need a computer to even do anything for my school

It was same for me. Out of like 15 subjects, 10 were on computers to actually do work

[zMeul]

Does it improve learning impact? Uhh.. Try writing C# code on paper. It doesn't work.

this is funny...

yes, it's true you can't do coding without actually writing it and compiling it; but there's a whole lot of knowledge to be absorbed before you start actual coding

 

I dunno if this is still a thing, but back in the days I learned Pascal and C/C++ we used pseudo-code to lay out the logic before jumping into writing and compiling the code

[minibois]

this is funny...

yes, it's true you can't do coding without actually writing it and compiling it; but there's a whole lot of knowledge to be absorbed before you start actual coding

 

I dunno if this is still a thing, but back in the days I learned Pascal and C/C++ we used pseudo-code to lay out the logic before jumping into writing and compiling the code

Yeah, I do that too, but I personally think it's way easier to do in software, because it's easier to change things.

I tend to think of stuff, change my mind.. erase and rearrange some stuff.. Repeat, Repeat. If I did that on paper, it would be a mess and filled in a sec

[Avalen]

I never thought maniacally adding electronics into schools for the sake of adding them was going to boost productivity.