The tech industry is losing patience with Microsoft over Windows 10 updates / Re-release of Win 10 v1809 still plagued with issues

[Delicieuxz]

17 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

well it sometimes annoys me. i'll be playing a game and all of a sudden my ping egts like double, and i think it has to do with Windows downloading updates. 

 

i can set my pc to hibernate, and then turn it back on and everything is still there. i'm talking about similar functionality built into the browser, so that if it gets closed suddenly all of my stuff is saved. 

 

ssd's aren't standard just yet, not in low cost laptops. and that's what the casual users mostly buy so... 

 

i don't like forced updates, because i don't like my pc installing stuff i didn't ask it to.

 

i'm not disagreeing with that, but in my opinion the thing that bugs me the most about rebooting is all my browsertabs reloading. 

 

that would be nice indeed. 

 

as far as i know there's no real reason why MS can't support older versions of 10... it's the same OS after all... 

I think that if there was a security-only updates option, that would eliminate most complaints that people have with Windows Update in Windows 10, as people wouldn't really have to worry about bugs, incompatibility issues, settings resetting, data disappearing, increased telemetry, etc. But, Microsoft doesn't want to do that, which I think suggests that Microsoft isn't primarily concerned with security of Windows 10 systems but instead uses fear-mongering about security to push propaganda about needing to be updated - which Microsoft wants for the sake of other things like getting more monetized Microsoft programs installed on PCs, more telemetry installed, etc.

 

If Microsoft's primary concern was truly security then there would surely be a security-only option because it would resolve a lot of, if not most of the issues people have with Windows Update.

 

And there would be no added burden on Microsoft to support older editions of Windows 10 because Microsoft already has to support those older editions security-updates-wise for the sake of the LTSB and LTSC editions, which receive security updates for 10 years from their release. So, the same support work is going to be done by Microsoft regardless of whether they push people to update to newer versions of Windows 10 or not.

[Ashleyyyy]

13 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

By the way, Microsoft actually do state that Windows 10 Home and Pro editions are test-beds to prepare new Windows 10 versions for widespread deployment. And so, if you buy Windows 10 Home or Pro, you're paying to have your work put at risk and to be a test subject so that Microsoft can give some larger payouts to its executives:

if this is true that's pretty disgusting. but it doesn't surprise me considering all the crap i've had with windwos 10...

 

12 hours ago, fasauceome said:

There's a reason I'm switching to Linux soon. I'm even getting my hands on a server someone's dumping so that I can learn the OS and how to game on it.

if only the performance hit wasn't as big. 

 

also, look here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOWcZ6Wicl-1N34H0zZe38w

check out the linux gaming series. 

 

12 hours ago, ZcanKal said:

Do I see a Linux uprising happening soon?

i think so. i'm in the process of switching over completely, and running a Windows VM for games. 

[Ashleyyyy]

8 minutes ago, mr moose said:

That sucks. 
Companies like MS (and all online services) need to understand not everyone has 15+Mb/s connections.

i've got 100mbit, so speed isn't really the issue. it's that Windows update can consume that whole connection at times. that or there are 3 or 4 computers on in the house and all of them update at once. 

 

also the scheduler in Windows is pretty crap and relies on core 0 for a lot of things, so if it starts to run updates on that core and the game i'm playing happens to run on cpu 1 then it'll stutter... my Xeon core's aren't the fastest nowadays. if only MS knew by now that most apps don't use the last core, in my case core 5 or 11 depending on the cpu. 

[mr moose]

4 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

i've got 100mbit, so speed isn't really the issue. it's that Windows update can consume that whole connection at times. that or there are 3 or 4 computers on in the house and all of them update at once. 

 

also the scheduler in Windows is pretty crap and relies on core 0 for a lot of things, so if it starts to run updates on that core and the game i'm playing happens to run on cpu 1 then it'll stutter... my Xeon core's aren't the fastest nowadays. if only MS knew by now that most apps don't use the last core, in my case core 5 or 11 depending on the cpu. 

I've got a 15Mb/s connection and 5 PC's, I have yet to notice the updates downloading. in fact i didn't even notice the upgrades download in the back ground and 3 of the pcs in my house stream youtube almost all the time.

[Ashleyyyy]

Just now, mr moose said:

I've got a 15Mb/s connection and 5 PC's, I have yet to notice the updates downloading. in fact i didn't even notice the upgrades download in the back ground and 3 of the pcs in my house stream youtube almost all the time.

i don't notice it all the time, but i have noticed it in the past. especially when a big release rolled out. 

[Syntaxvgm]

3 hours ago, asus killer said:

i got sick and tired of Microsoft, and on the laptop i installed a pirated LTSB, works great, i get all the security updates and no crap. Sure you miss some nice features but it's not worth it. I really don't want to format the desktop, but if i ever will i will do the same.

 

I had one of those legit keys from ebay, so i don't even thing it's piracy.

I did the same on a couple of mine as well.

[williamcll]

If only chrome OS were more common and could support any linux software

[AlTech]

6 hours ago, vorticalbox said:

The linux kernel is stable and a lot of hardware is supported out of the box.

Not completely. For example the Fingerprint scanner and Facial recognition using IR camera are not supported on Linux but supported on Windows. Same for the optional LTE although that's Lenovo's fault cos the drivers exist for it but Lenovo needs to change an option in the BIOS to support it.

 

6 hours ago, vorticalbox said:

I think the first people to leave we developers followed shortly by offices. All linux needs is some great office software and it's a no brainer.

 

I know there is libreoffice bit that thing looks like to time jumped from 95.

6.1 looks passable.

[Sauron]

HAH, that's funny. What are they going to do? They gave Microsoft a monopoly, now MS can do whatever they want with it.

 

Seriously, why should Microsoft care? These people gave them no reason to. At any mention of switching a corporate office infrastructure to a Linux distro, you get eye rolls and "but ms office won't work!". The few large scale Linux desktop deployments, most of them being part of some sort of public service, are being slowly rolled back by corrupt politicians. MacOS is tied to expensive and fussy hardware that no sysadmin wants to deal with. So, why are they surprised MS can get away with this?

 

Sure, they can cling to windows 7 hoping MS will give a fuck (they won't, you're still enforcing their monopoly and eventually you'll have to upgrade), but the only way to really force them to change is to stop using Windows altogether. And no, a private customer switching to Linux isn't nearly enough for them to care.

[Sauron]

13 hours ago, RyomaSJibenG said:

i don't know man, i'm that one guy who update windows 10 last october without backup and i didn't lose anything. its business as usual everyday, the games i played still played normally and stuff. until now nothing is amiss as far as i can tell and i do get my sweet sweet dark theme windows

 

maybe i'm just a lucky one who didn't get shot by the bullet

That's not really the point, even if only ~5% of people are affected something like that could seriously mess with a corporate network with hundreds of machines.

[mynameisjuan]

5 minutes ago, Sauron said:

That's not really the point, even if only ~5% of people are affected something like that could seriously mess with a corporate network with hundreds of machines.

A proper corporate network should have a competent sysadmin and it wouldnt mess with it.   

[Sauron]

8 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

I don’t understand what is so hard about giving users the power to consent over what happens on their machines.

You give that up when you install proprietary software. You'll never have full control of what your computer does if you can't go read the code and modify it as you please. After that, where is the line? When you buy windows you give microsoft control over your pc in exchange for some functionality. That has always been the case. Forced updates are, to be honest, not really the problem - the average windows user really should update a lot more often than they do - the problem ensues when things break, or when what you originally bought radically changes in functionality. Again, proprietary software problems - you don't get a say in how things are done.

8 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Essentially every other OS across x86 and ARM give the user the power of consent yet Windows 10 makes users bend over and take it?

Hardly. Sure, on android/ios/macos you get to decide if and when you'll install the update... but the update won't change. If you want the security updates, you'll have to accept the feature updates too, eventually. And as I said, forced updates are far from being the only control you give up when using windows or any proprietary system.

8 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

I get that there are security concerns but maybe leave the updates on for grandma but let people like myself switch them off? Or does that not work within Microsoft’s data mining tactics?

As if they needed you to update to mine your data! They're going to mine you even if you use windows 7, don't "worry".

6 hours ago, strajk- said:

You can't install anything less than Windows 10 either, because the ones responsible for said systems get upset by saying that their system isn't modern enough if the Project Leader goes for Windows 7 or 8.1 instead, not giving a shit that by doing the jump to Windows 10 you're compromising your system.

Then sorry, but these people deserve exactly what they get. I don't see why an embedded production system would need to run on Windows. And using 7/8 is only a temporary "solution" to the underlying problem that is placing your infrastructure at MS' mercy. Also, to be clear, if you want to disable the auto updates you can  do that with 10 without any monkey business - you just need an enterprise license - at least for now.

[Sauron]

10 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

A proper corporate network should have a competent sysadmin and it wouldn't mess with it.   

Sure - but that doesn't mean it's ok for MS to push out whatever and expect their customers to not trust their updates.

[mynameisjuan]

14 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Sure - but that doesn't mean it's ok for MS to push out whatever and expect their customers to not trust their updates.

They dont just push out whatever. This problem was small enough that it might of never been caught in testing even with 30k extra staff. 

[Master Delta Chief]

If only Microsoft had the proper staff to test out these updates before they were published. Yes, it's time-consuming for them but it would at least make the lives of the actual users a lot easier and better. And I know there's the insider program but that I think is pretty much a failure. It's only useful if you want to see 'new features'. Besides, using the average user as test-subject instead is just wrong.

[Doobeedoo]

Compatibility should never be broken with new update and critical bugs included in such new update. Hopefully they turn their word in action next year with putting more effort for under the hood improvements and updates. 

I don't have problematic issues after updates, specially nothing serious like deleted files, broken compatibility, boot loops etc. I do configure my OS quite enough which I'm sure general consumer doesn't even configure basic stuff in settings and updates sadly. 

I also do run Enterprise version too. 

So MS needs to change their approach or do better. But they need to act and repair this image of theirs. 

[jagdtigger]

7 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

But they need to act and repair this image of theirs. 

Problem is there is nothing left that can be repaired IMO...

[Doobeedoo]

8 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Problem is there is nothing left that can be repaired IMO...

They can, how willing are they is on to them. They will definitely do something, but to what extent is the question. I mean I'd expect such big companies to know what is and what's not a good idea. It seems many continue to be stubborn in this way which doesn't pay off. 

[jagdtigger]

3 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

They can

After all they've done thats borderline impossible...

[Doobeedoo]

11 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

After all they've done thats borderline impossible...

Well, they'll have to do something though. Unless they're completely blind and don't see continuing doing nothing will just derail further.

[samcool55]

48 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

They dont just push out whatever. This problem was small enough that it might of never been caught in testing even with 30k extra staff. 

Yet the problem (actually a lot of problems) are time and time again big enough that we are once again talking about it...

Fact is, the 2 big update for windows 10 had issues. Those big updates are just NOT a good idea.

What i wonder is, why do they even do it like that? Look at Linux, that thing updates stupidly quick compared to windows and rarely needs a reboot.

 

Also, wtf is the point of the big updates? Like, most of the new stuff is basically an update of a program, can easily be done with a reinstall of that program!

New programs, just install them! No need to mess with windows, Paint 3D for example, it's just a program, install it and be done with it. Or even better, give us the option to not install it at all because who actually uses it?

 

There are SO many better options to handle the biggest parts of those big updates that probably makes them pointless, but nope...

[asus killer]

5 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Or even better, give us the option to not install it at all

 

hey there, what are you smoking, i want some. Now you're going to tell me the user that paid for the product could choose what options/apps to install. What a crazy idea, this guy is nuts. What's next raking the forest 

[jagdtigger]

6 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Look at Linux, that thing updates stupidly quick compared to windows and rarely needs a reboot.

And when you do a dist-upgrade it wont reinstall stuff that you removed, not to mention it wont override your settings or revert them back to defaults.

[AngryBeaver]

Meh, if Microsoft is wanting to make further bug fixes to a major release and it gets delayed.... people should just get over it. Yes it sucks and all, but I would rather them work on getting it right first so that we don't end up with a new update that introduces possible security issues.

 

The OEM's aren't going to move away from microsoft, because I doubt they even actually care. I think it is funny how people are telling microsoft what it SHOULD be doing. They have been the most successful OS ever released and have done just fine for decades.

 

These responses remind me of all the posts you see on say the WoW forums when a patch goes longer than expected. They complain and try and threaten to cancel their subscriptions, but as soon as the server is up all is forgotten until the next maintenance/patch day and it just begins anew.

[mynameisjuan]

3 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Yet the problem (actually a lot of problems) are time and time again big enough that we are once again talking about it...

Fact is, the 2 big update for windows 10 had issues. Those big updates are just NOT a good idea.

What i wonder is, why do they even do it like that? Look at Linux, that thing updates stupidly quick compared to windows and rarely needs a reboot.

 

Also, wtf is the point of the big updates? Like, most of the new stuff is basically an update of a program, can easily be done with a reinstall of that program!

New programs, just install them! No need to mess with windows, Paint 3D for example, it's just a program, install it and be done with it. Or even better, give us the option to not install it at all because who actually uses it?

 

There are SO many better options to handle the biggest parts of those big updates that probably makes them pointless, but nope...

Because people complained about updates and rebooting so they just packaged them in large updates with smaller security updates a few times are month. 

 

The programs included in updates are not just installed, they are integrated into the OS. Is just the way windows was designed and there is nothing they can do about it with starting from scratch. 

 

Yeah the better option are the way unix handles updates but windows was not designed that way. The large upgrades with smaller security updates are the way to go.