The tech industry is losing patience with Microsoft over Windows 10 updates / Re-release of Win 10 v1809 still plagued with issues

[NeuesTestament]

Windows 10 1809 is running fine on my laptop so far. I must say ironically W10 is the Windows which I so far had the least problems with. Maybe I am just the luckiest guy ever but probably not.

[79wjd]

7 hours ago, mr moose said:

I'm buying a tatts ticket.  I have auto updates all set to recommended, I power cycle my pc regularly and as a result windows knows when to update so it doesn't need to force a restart.  I haven't had any of the problems I keep hearing are so common.  I think in the last 3 years I have had one restart that took a while to update when I needed the PC.   Given how the internet carries on you be forgiven for thinking everyone suffers these problems.

I have a tendency to never restart my computer as I almost always have things open that I don't want to lose/have to save off/keep track of. As a result, Windows update has bit me a few times.

[Delicieuxz]

My PC can run for weeks or even well over a month without being restarted. And I can have up to a dozen documents open and in various stages of being worked on, as well at 120+ internet browser tabs, some with forms open and text being written into them but not completed. It is imperative that my PC never restarts apart from my explicit instruction to. A single unauthorized restart is going to cause me big problems. So, having restart hours does absolutely nothing to help and is a terrible joke of an offered solution for my case, and I'm sure for many other people's.

 

A lot of the productivity of the world doesn't run on a schedule of full-on in the day, full-off in the night, or by any sub-division of a 24, 48, or 74 hour period. If Microsoft thinks otherwise then they're really immature and inexperienced with life at Redmond - something that shows in more ways than just their out-of-touch-with-the-real-world Windows Update regime.

[jagdtigger]

1 hour ago, Delicieuxz said:

out-of-touch-with-the-real-world

Not just with updates, win10 is more like a bad farce than an OS...

[mynameisjuan]

1 hour ago, Delicieuxz said:

My PC can run for weeks or even over a month without being restarted. And I can have up to a dozen documents open and in various stages of being worked on, as well at 120+ internet browser tabs, some with forms open and text being written into them but not completed. It is imperative that my PC never restarts apart from my explicit instruction to. A single unauthorized restart is going to cause me big problems. So, having restart hours does absolutely nothing to help and is a terrible joke of an offered solution for my case, and I'm sure for many other people's.

 

A lot of the productivity of the world doesn't run on a schedule of full-on in the day, full-off in the night, or by any sub-division of a 24 hour period. If Microsoft thinks otherwise then they're really immature and inexperienced with life at Redmond - something that shows in more ways than just their out-of-touch-with-the-real-world Windows Update regime.

Are you talking servers or desktops? Because that falls under servers. 

 

If a reboot causes you that much of a hassle, then you should rethink your setup. I mean you are saying you have a bunch on un-completed, un-saved work in the browser. I mean WTF happens if your browser crashes? 

 

Your "productivity" isnt even a windows problem. The problem is you dont save anything. 

 

They are not out of touch with the real world, you and most others here think they are the world and they need to be catered too. Yeah random reboots are uncalled for, but you know that and still refuse to change your work style.

[mynameisjuan]

39 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Not just with updates, win10 is more like a bad farce than an OS...

Working just fine for me over here.

[jagdtigger]

2 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Working just fine for me over here.

Just because you dont have a problems it does not mean others dont have any either. And so far it seems forums are full of problems with win10.....

Edited November 20, 2018 by jagdtigger

[Mira Yurizaki]

4 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Just because you dont have a problems it does not mean others dont have any either. And so far it seems forums are full of problems with win10.....

And just because they have problems doesn't mean it's necessarily the norm.

 

With the way people tinker with their machines without understanding what those things do, it's a miracle their PCs still run.

[jagdtigger]

1 minute ago, M.Yurizaki said:

And just because they have problems doesn't mean it's necessarily the norm.

 

With the way people tinker with their machines without understanding what those things do, it's a miracle their PCs still run.

There are plenty of bugs caused by updates not just user error.... Like when it gone ahead and deleted linux partitions, or like in this case wiped the Documents folder, etc. I think its fair to say that these kind of mistakes are unacceptable even for a free software let alone a paid one .

 

/OFF

BTW your nick was a good clue what to watch next .

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 minute ago, jagdtigger said:

There are plenty of bugs caused by updates not just user error.... Like when it gone ahead and deleted linux partitions, or like in this case wiped the Documents folder, etc. I think its fair to say that these kind of mistakes are unacceptable even for a free software let alone a paid one .

 

/OFF

BTW your nick was a good clue what to watch next .

I'm not saying Microsoft is a saint here, but a lot of problems I've seen are often due to PEBKAC.

[Drak3]

7 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

I'm not saying Microsoft is a saint here, but a lot of problems I've seen are often due to PEBKAC.

In the case of 10, some are also due to hardware combinations or now incompatible drivers that worked with the old version.

[Mira Yurizaki]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

In the case of 10, some are also due to hardware combinations or now incompatible drivers that worked with the old version.

Which isn't really Microsoft's fault if the manufacturer doesn't care.

[Delicieuxz]

41 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Are you talking servers or desktops? Because that falls under servers. 

My computer is definitely not a server and is a desktop.

 

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If a reboot causes you that much of a hassle, then you should rethink your setup. I mean you are saying you have a bunch on un-completed, un-saved work in the browser. I mean WTF happens if your browser crashes?

I dump copy and pastes of large incomplete form information into notepad without saving the notepad.

 

I also have a plugin to auto-save form information. Will it still store that information after a forced system reset? I'm not sure.

 

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Your "productivity" isnt even a windows problem. The problem is you dont save anything.

That's not true. I save lots. But I don't save every miniscule step of the way, and when working with many large documents I don't save every one of them while switching between them or while sleeping

 

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They are not out of touch with the real world, you and most others here think they are the world and they need to be catered too.

That sounds like Microsoft and maybe yourself. An OS is supposed to be configurable so that all use cases can be catered to. And Windows can cater to all use cases if the correct settings are there. There is no justification for forcing a hostile updates regime on people presuming that you know what people need and that the world needs to conform to your updates ideology. That's an arrogant and unaware position to take. Updates are there to serve people, not people there to serve the updates. Microsoft hasn't got its thoughts sorted in the right order and so is out of touch with the real world.

 

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Yeah random reboots are uncalled for, but you know that and still refuse to change your work style.

Why would people change their work style to suit an OS? That's backwards. The OS is there to serve people, not the other way around. And I've adapted by dumping Windows 10 Pro and switched to Windows 10 Enterprise, and soon I'll be switching to Windows 10 LTSC for even more protection against a completely wrong OS design.

 

 

39 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Working just fine for me over here.

The full concept of a thing, such as an OS, isn't defined by its most simple usage, but by its all-encompassing usage. That there's a person who drives a car and never encounters an accident and so didn't need the seatbelt in their care isn't an argument that cars shouldn't have seatbelts in them.

[mynameisjuan]

33 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Just because you dont have a problems it does not mean others dont have any either. And so far it seems forums are full of problems with win10.....

I didnt say that others dont have problems. Just having worked at a call center starting at a level 1 to a sysadmin, I have ran into litter problems over the years. Most problems are not the OS (aka the person).

 

I get there are updates that are breaking things but I think how wide spread the issue is is being blown up more and more. 

[Drak3]

22 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Which isn't really Microsoft's fault if the manufacturer doesn't care.

No, but it is their problem as per their own conviction to keep 10 functional on as much hardware as they possibly can.

[mynameisjuan]

6 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

My computer is definitely not a server and is a desktop.

I dump copy and pastes of large incomplete form information into notepad without saving the notepad.

I also have a plugin to auto-save form information. Will it still store that information after a forced system reset? I'm not sure.

That's not true. I save lots. But I don't save every miniscule step of the way, and when working with many large documents I don't save every one of them while switching between them or while sleeping

Again, you should read what you are writing. You dont save and yet still complain when you lose data. Why should anyone feel bad for you? This isnt a windows problem. Lose power, lose internet, browser crashes, site crashes, wrong info copied....like dude...take a step back and look who is to blame. 

 

SAVE YOUR SHIT

 

 

10 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

Why would people change their work style to suit an OS? That's backwards. The OS is there to serve people, not the other way around.

The way windows was designed it cannot be changed unless the OS is completely rewritten. People who know this know that you need to change your work instead of not and just whining about microsoft monthly. 

 

11 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

The full concept of a thing, such as an OS, isn't defined by its most simple usage, but by its all-encompassing usage. That there's a person who drives a car and never encounters an accident and so didn't need the seatbelt in their care isn't an argument that cars shouldn't have seatbelts in them.

What? What the hell does that have to do with this at all? 

 

I mean your analogy applies to you not saving things. Saving is your seat belt and you are not wearing it because you dont think you should get into accidents......you owned yourself....

[GoodBytes]

15 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

That sounds like Microsoft and maybe yourself. An OS is supposed to be configurable so that all use cases can be catered to. And Windows can cater to all use cases if the correct settings are there. There is no justification for forcing a hostile updates regime on people presuming that you know what people need and that the world needs to conform to your updates ideology. That's an arrogant and unaware position to take. Updates are there to serve people, not people there to serve the updates. Microsoft hasn't got its thoughts sorted in the right order and so is out of touch with the real world.

incorrect. The role of the OS is to operate your system (hardware). It choose what it want to offer you or not. They are OSs that has 0 user configuration. Like the OS in your car monitoring sensor system of the engine.  If the OS does not meet your needs, then pick something else that does. You have countless of OSs available: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_operating_systems

 

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Why would people change their work style to suit an OS? That's backwards.

Why does a car OS needs to cater to you? Why does Android need to cater to your needs? It doesn't, and it won't, cause it is not designed for what you need, and doesn't care about you. It has a direction, a focus, it caters to that. Same way you have Ubuntu and you have hundred of other distro, each have their target focus.

 

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The OS is there to serve people, not the other way around.

No. It serves users. Users can be sensors, can be other machines, can anything not human.

 

[mynameisjuan]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

No, but it is their problem as per their own conviction to keep 10 functional on as much hardware as they possibly can.

Ok but how should they test every hardware that can exist in a system? I mean how many millions of configurations do they need to go through before the update is considered safe? 

 

Trust me, windows 10 is a shit ton more functional on a shit ton more hardware than any other OS. Even hardcore linux users cant deny that. 

 

Its the manufacturers responsibility to update their stuff. Their updates tell the devices how to interact with windows. There is only so much windows can do. 

[Delicieuxz]

2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

incorrect. The role of the OS is to operate your system (hardware). It choose what it want to offer you or not. They are OSs that has 0 user configuration. Like the OS in your car monitoring sensor system of the engine.  If the OS does not meet your needs, then pick something else that does. You have countless of OSs available: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_operating_systems

 

Why does a car OS needs to cater to you? Why does Android need to cater to your needs? It doesn't, and it won't, cause it is not designed for what you need, and doesn't care about you. It has a direction, a focus, it caters to that. Same way you have Ubuntu and you have hundred of other distro, each have their target focus.

 

No. It serves users. Users can be sensors, can be other machines, can anything not human.

All those sensors and other machines exist to serve people's needs and goals. Ultimately, they are there to serve people. And Windows is the OS that is most for human engagement in all capacities. It's capability to be configured should serve and not get in the way of that - just as previous Windows versions do.

[Drak3]

4 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Ok but how should they test every hardware that can exist in a system? I mean how many millions of configurations do they need to go through before the update is considered safe? 

That's the entire purpose of the insider builds. No company can reasonably test a fraction of combinations that Windows sees.

4 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Even hardcore linux users cant deny that. 

Yet they do.

 

5 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Its the manufacturers responsibility to update their stuff. Their updates tell the devices how to interact with windows. There is only so much windows can do. 

However, Microsoft decided to pursue fixing as many of said issues as reasonably possible to keep users and customers.

[mynameisjuan]

1 minute ago, Delicieuxz said:

All those sensors and other machines exist to serve people's needs and goals. Ultimately, they are there to serve people. And Windows is the OS that is most for human engagement in all capacities. It's capability to be configured should serve and not get in the way of that - just as previous Windows versions do.

I dont get what you expect from an OS. Windows 10 doesnt do anything different than 7. 

[GoodBytes]

9 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

All those sensors and other machines exist to serve people's needs and goals. Ultimately, they are there to serve people.

So you are saying that your car OS needs to run the latest games, and do all the multi-taking stuff you need? No. It serves a specific tasks.

It doesn't need to serve anyone, and can go against people, all people including its creator.

 

Quote

And Windows is the OS that is most for human engagement in all capacities. It's capability to be configured should serve and not get in the way of that - just as previous Windows versions do.

Windows is an OS that engages a certain group of users. If you don't fit, then you don't fit. Pick an OS that does. Microsoft won't change its OS just for you. If it sees no value, then it won't. Same for any other OS. Again, some people don't like Ubuntu, and picks a different distro instead, despite running the same apps and desktop environment in the end (or can do it).

 

Microsoft doesn't work for you, it works for the target market wants and needs. This is why Windows is not bombarded with options left, right, top and down to try and please everyone... (and even then, it will not cater people who seek simplicity, and even if you have an option to have "Simple mode", the options available will not cater everyone that evaluate that should be there or not). It has a focus on what it thinks its user cares about.

[mynameisjuan]

Just now, Drak3 said:

That's the entire purpose of the insider builds. No company can reasonably test a fraction of combinations that Windows sees.

Catch 22. Most people who whine that updates broke a piece of their hardware will also refuse to run an inside build because they dont want it to break something. 

 

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Yet they do.

Most here do. Go to any linux forums where they constantly complain that they cant get their wireless card to work or get their trackpad to even click. People who would defend that really have not tried linux on multiple systems. 

 

[Delicieuxz]

6 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

So you are saying that your car OS needs to run the latest games, and do all the multi-taking stuff you need? No. It serves a specific tasks.

It doesn't need to serve anyone, and can go against people, all people including its creator.

The car performs specific tasks, and the car's computer software is designed to fulfill all of those tasks. Playing games is not one of the tasks that a car is about.

 

serving a person's workload and work-schedule is, however, something that a home computer is about. And so the software made for it and those purposes should have the functionality that serves those needs.

 

6 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Microsoft doesn't work for you, it works for the target market wants and needs. This is why Windows is not bombarded with options left, right, top and down to try and please everyone... (and even then, it will not cater people who seek simplicity, and even if you have an option to have "Simple mode", the options available will not cater everyone that evaluate that should be there or not). It has a focus on what it thinks its user cares about.

According to the prevalent and increasing complaints from consumer and professional sectors, the target group that Microsoft's OS works for and needs is shrinking.

[mr moose]

I solely  used Linux for a good 3 year stint and still use Linux on the side, It is much better today with most common hardware being made to a standard, but I can assure you it is still not as good as windows for compatability with hardware in general.

Windows is designed for the average everyday joe and office work, it is not designed for people who don't save their work and refuse too power cycle. It likely never will be.