The tech industry is losing patience with Microsoft over Windows 10 updates / Re-release of Win 10 v1809 still plagued with issues

[Delicieuxz]

The threads have been merged, so I've edited the first post here to include both OPs. Scroll down this post to see the OP for "Microsoft's re-release of Windows 10 version 1809 continues to be plagued with issues".

Topic OP: The tech industry is losing patience with Microsoft over Windows 10 updates  [link to merged post]

 

 

Discontent over the updates system in Windows 10 has been present since Windows 10 released. But, as time goes on and problematic patch after problematic patch has released, many people who formerly saw nothing inherently malicious with the Windows 10 updates regime, and who maybe even advocated for it have come to realize that things cannot continue to go on as they have been.

 

These three recent articles show that industry sentiment is growing against Microsoft's Windows 10 updates regime.

 

 

October 2018: Critics warn Microsoft it needs to fix broken update process

Quote

 

"Microsoft really needs to get a handle on this. They're running out of time," said Chris Goettl, product manager with client security and management vendor Ivanti, when asked his reaction to the show-stopping problem of deleted user files. "If Microsoft wants to continue down this track of the Windows 10 [rapid release] model, its upgrades and updates must be of better quality than they have been."

 

...

 

Quality? What quality?

Calls for Microsoft to improve the quality of its upgrades and updates have been building for some time. Triggered by long stretches of problem-causing monthly updates - ironically, Microsoft dubs these, including the famous "Patch Tuesday" security releases, "quality" updates - commercial customers have been demanding that Redmond do better.

In July, patch expert Susan Bradley, a computer network and security consultant who also moderates the PatchMangement.org mailing list, implored Microsoft's senior executives to read the findings of a survey of IT professionals she conducted. That survey outlined how dissatisfied IT personnel were with the Windows patching process, in particular the updates' quality.

 

"Your customers who are in charge of patching and maintaining systems are not happy with the quality of updates ... and feel that it cannot go on as is," Bradley wrote in an open letter to Microsoft's leaders, including CEO Satya Nadella. Of the more than 1,000 respondents to her questionnaire, 64% were either "very much not satisfied" or "not satisfied" with the quality of Windows' updates.

 

Those opinions were only reinforced by 1809's stumble.

 

 

October 2018: Two Windows 10 feature updates a year is too many

Quote

 

After watching Windows 10 in the real world for more than three years, I am convinced that the current incarnation of "Windows as a service" is unsustainable and needs to change.

 

...

 

Mandatory monthly updates can be annoying, but because they're strictly compatibility and reliability fixes, it's easy to make the case for installing them. They install relatively quickly, and security updates are unlikely to mess up a stable Windows PC.

 

Feature updates are a different story. Because they are full Windows upgrades, they take much longer to install, especially on well-worn budget PCs. More importantly, each such update introduces a new set of possible compatibility and reliability problems.

 

For the people trying to get work done with a Windows 10 PC, each new feature update is an unwelcome disruption. If you're spending two, three, or four months a year dealing with teething problems for a new OS release, you're probably not a satisfied customer.

 

Ironically, the PC-owning population running Windows 10 Home is on the front line for each new release and is most likely to encounter problems that have to be ironed out with a cumulative update or two. This group is probably least equipped to troubleshoot technical problems and least likely to have professional IT help at hand. And yet, because the management tools to defer updates are available only on Windows 10 Pro and Enterprise editions, they have no choice but to install each update as it arrives.

 

 

November 2018: Windows Isn’t a Service; It’s an Operating System

Quote

 

“Windows as a Service” is failing. It’s obvious: Windows is not a service, and never was. It’s a desktop operating system, and it doesn’t need updates every six months. Even iOS and Android only get significant updates once per year.

 

...

 

No PC users asked Microsoft for Windows as a service. It was all Microsoft’s idea.

 

“Software as a service” is trendy. But these types of services are generally hosted on a remote platform, like Amazon Web Services or even Microsoft Azure. Web applications like Gmail and Facebook are services. That all makes sense—the company maintains the software, and you access it remotely.

 

An operating system that runs on millions of different hardware configurations is not a service. It can’t be updated as easily, and you’ll run into issues with hardware, drivers, and software when you change things. The upgrade process isn’t instant and transparent—it’s a big download and can take a while to install.

 

 

 

Regarding the 'Windows as a service' slogan, it should be noted that service versus product are legal distinctions that change how something can be marketed and also what the rights of possessing that thing include. Windows 10 is definitively legally a product that is marketed for sale and sold, and then bought by people like you who then own their copy of Windows 10. There is no truth to calling Windows 10 a service. It legally isn't, and it never has been. It is legally and technically a product, and so people rightfully expect their rights as owners over a product to fully be honoured by Microsoft while they use their Windows 10 OS.

 

Microsoft's own 'Windows as a service' documentation makes it clear that 'Windows as a service' refers only to Microsoft's internal development and release cycle of Windows 10 updates, and imposes (and legally cannot) no duty upon Windows 10 owners for them to regard, or expect, or treat Windows 10 as a service.

 

 

I agree with the critics: Software that a person purchases and uses is for the purpose of serving the person. However, with Microsoft's Windows 10 update regime, Microsoft is turning people's computer and owned software against them.

 

By the way, Microsoft actually do state that Windows 10 Home and Pro editions are test-beds to prepare new Windows 10 versions for widespread deployment. And so, if you buy Windows 10 Home or Pro, you're paying to have your work put at risk and to be a test subject so that Microsoft can give some larger payouts to its executives:

 

Windows 10 Servicing Branches (CB, CBB, and LTSB), Semi-Annual Channel

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This is the latest version of Windows and is called Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted), this version receives all upgrades (new versions) and updates (patches) from Microsoft within a few days of their release. Semi-Annual Channel(Targeted) is what all home users get and what most small business corporate Pro users will get.

 

...

 

New feature update releases are initially considered as Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted) releases: organizations will use these for pilot deployments to ensure compatibility with existing apps and infrastructure. After about four months, the feature update will be declared as Semi-Annual Channel, indicating that it is ready for broad deployment.

 

 

And this is what Satya Nadella fired over 20,000 Microsoft testing engineers since 2015 for: To offload the testing of Windows 10 onto people like you who own and run Windows 10 Home and Pro.

 

I find and fully believe that is unacceptable, and so I'm running Windows 10 Enterprise right now, and will switch to Windows 10 LTSC 2019 very soon. Licenses for Windows 10 Enterprise and LTSC can be legitimately purchased for cheap from places like eBay, reddit, Craigslist.

 

 

 

 

 

Topic OP: Microsoft's re-release of Windows 10 version 1809 continues to be plagued with issues

 

 

If at first or second you don't succeed, you may be Microsoft: Hold off installing re-released Windows Oct Update

 

------------------------------------------ start of excerpts ------------------------------------------

The 1809 build of Windows 10 and Windows Server is fast becoming infamous. Microsoft pulled it shortly after release when it started deleting people's files, and stumbling in other ways. Redmond reissued the software on Tuesday, and today it's clear you shouldn't rush into deploying it, if installing it at all, in its present state.

 

Buried among the release notes for the re-released build is this little advisory, in which Microsoft admits:

 

 

Quote

 

You experience the following issues in Windows 10, version 1809:

• In Windows Explorer, a red X appears on the mapped network drives.
• Mapped network drives are displayed as Unavailable when you run the net use command at a command prompt.
• In the notification area, a notification displays the following message: 'Could not reconnect all network drives.'

 

 

We can imagine that being a little annoying for people in work environments or otherwise relying on network shares.

 

Microsoft does provide a number of possible workarounds for the loss of network drive connectivity – a bug it knew was present in build 1809 of Windows, but chose not to fix in the re-release. It suggests setting up script files, scheduled tasks, or changing group policy settings. That said, these mitigation steps may not last beyond a reboot, and may need to be reapplied. Microsoft says it'll sort out the issues "in the 2019 timeframe." 

 

...

 

Meanwhile, antivirus biz Trend Micro is warning that some of its customers won't be able to download the 1809 build even if they wanted to.

 

...

 

Finally, if you're using a Radeon HD2000 and HD4000 graphics card from AMD, you're out of luck. The new Windows build will throw out an "INVALID_POINTER_READ_c0000005_atidxx64.dll" error code and lock the screen.

 

------------------------------------------ end of excerpts ------------------------------------------

 

Microsoft's update history notes for the re-release of Windows 10 1809 are here (thanks for the link, GoodBytes): https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4464619/windows-10-update-history

 

 

So, the re-release of Windows 10 1809 still has some big caveats to it for people that are using some particular software and hardware, and also for people wanting to access information from a networked drive.

 

I have two new SSDs waiting to have Windows 10 LTSC 2019 installed on them, and I wonder how many more issues are going to be discovered with the re-release of 1809 and what they might mean for LTSC 2019, which might not receive the fixes for them.

 

I think, as I have for a long time, that Microsoft's Windows 10 updates regime has clearly and comprehensively failed, and that a major change, probably a return to the pre-2015 Windows 7 style, in updating development and rollout methodology is needed to make Windows 10 a safe and secure OS. Windows owners are not Microsoft's employees and should not be being made victims and to suffer consequences for Microsoft's irresponsible and reckless choice to fire its OS testing engineers in favour of offloading the costs of bug-testing Windows 10 onto Windows 10 owners.

 

 

If you need to disable Windows Update to protect the security of your Windows system from Microsoft, here are some ways you can do that:

 

 

[Ashleyyyy]

good thing i ditched Windows 10 for macOS and Windows 8.1....

 

*laugs in Apple and old Microsoft*

[Bananasplit_00]

Every day, I'm pushed a little closer to installing Linux

[Ashleyyyy]

Just now, Bananasplit_00 said:

Every day, I'm pushed a little closer to installing Linux

if i had the ability to run all of my games on Linux without a massive performance hit i would have no need for Windows ever at all.... 

[3 Lions]

So is this 1809 (OS Build 17763.134)? 

[Bananasplit_00]

3 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

if i had the ability to run all of my games on Linux without a massive performance hit i would have no need for Windows ever at all.... 

I can't say I care even a bit about the performance hit, the problem is that the games I play don't run at all. Tried pretty much everything but anticheat makes them impossible cases

[jagdtigger]

Just now, VegetableStu said:

didn't valve release an "emulator" something? o_o

Yes they did. Its called proton(fork of wine).

[Ashleyyyy]

Just now, VegetableStu said:

didn't valve release an "emulator" something? o_o

it's still based on Wine. a lot of games don't work properly and as far as i know the one's that do work still have a big performance hit... 

[TechyBen]

1 minute ago, VegetableStu said:

didn't valve release an "emulator" something? o_o

IS 50/50 because some games/software needs deeeep black magic to work, even in Windows.

[Bananasplit_00]

Just now, VegetableStu said:

didn't valve release an "emulator" something? o_o

Proton, its a comparability layer. Works great untill something has anticheat stuffs

[Ashleyyyy]

1 minute ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

I can't say I care even a bit about the performance hit, the problem is that the games I play don't run at all. Tried pretty much everything but anticheat makes them impossible cases

sure, but when you have an i5 7400 and a GTX 780Ti and you have to run overwatch on all low settings and it still stutters from time to time it gets really annoying. 

[Bananasplit_00]

Just now, firelighter487 said:

sure, but when you have an i5 7400 and a GTX 780Ti and you have to run overwatch on all low settings and it still stutters from time to time it gets really annoying. 

Yah running a 5GHz I7 4790K and 2.1GHz 1080 has its privlages

[FarmerGiles97]

Update has fucked my chrome up! 

 

Cant even open gmail, and then the internet for chrome stops working and wont open web pages!

[Ashleyyyy]

8 minutes ago, JordanHopkins97 said:

Update has fucked my chrome up! 

 

Cant even open gmail, and then the internet for chrome stops working and wont open web pages!

reinstall chrome?

[jagdtigger]

13 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

it's still based on Wine. a lot of games don't work properly and as far as i know the one's that do work still have a big performance hit... 

I wouldnt call it big....

[bitsandpieces]

What about the missing notification? Ever since this October update, on 2 of my own computers, I no longer see notifications in the notifications center

[Ashleyyyy]

4 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

I wouldnt call it big....

proton supports too few games for me to be able to reliably test it unless i buy games it supports, so i have to look at Wine, and Wine still has a big hit. 

 

like i said before, i got Overwatch running in Wine which is cool, but the system i did that on has an i5 7400, 16gb of ram and a GTX 780Ti, and i had to run Overwatch on low settings to make it run at 60fps, where as on Windows it can run on high/epic settings. so... a big hit still. 

[Ashleyyyy]

Just now, bitsandpieces said:

What about the missing notification? Ever since this October update, on 2 of my own computers, I no longer see notifications in the notifications center

isn't that a positive thing? Windows 10 sends so many notifications it gets annoying as hell. 

[Nowak]

That title is a bit Department of Redundancy Department, no?

 

I honestly can't wait for Microsoft to fix this issue where the Action Center retains notifications you have it set not to retain until you open and close it.

[bitsandpieces]

1 minute ago, firelighter487 said:

isn't that a positive thing? Windows 10 sends so many notifications it gets annoying as hell. 

But the icon in the task bar still receives them, although they're absent in the notification center

[Ashleyyyy]

1 minute ago, bitsandpieces said:

But the icon in the task bar still receives them, although they're absent in the notification center

oh really? that's annoying... i've seen that one or two times with older versions, where i was gaming and opened the notification thing when i was done and it was empty... 

 

but you're talking about just general use right?

[Terryv]

29 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

proton supports too few games for me to be able to reliably test it unless i buy games it supports, so i have to look at Wine, and Wine still has a big hit. 

 

like i said before, i got Overwatch running in Wine which is cool, but the system i did that on has an i5 7400, 16gb of ram and a GTX 780Ti, and i had to run Overwatch on low settings to make it run at 60fps, where as on Windows it can run on high/epic settings. so... a big hit still. 

I take it you were using the lutris scrip?

 

DXVK or openGL mode?

 

I'm using DXVK, I think my performance hit was 10-15%

 

Turning off dynamic reflections is a big performance boost as well. Doing basically negated my performance hit.

[JoeCoke]

Here we are again, folks. More Windows 10 bullshit! Oh, but those of us who are still on 7/8.1 are just "clingy and can't move on".

 

Can Adobe programs just hurry up and come to Linux? I've gotten all the games/emulators I care about running in Linux, and all of the other programs I use are running in Linux. I'm so close to switching, I've been playing with Linux more and more and damn, it's just better than Windows in every way. I'M READY.

Spoiler

 

 

 

Also @Delicieuxz, thanks for your bullshit free pre updated Windows 7 SP1 ISO. It's been a lot of help. No more battling Windows update for me, and the few updates I want to install, I have the offline installers. Setting up a machine has never been quicker. I just install Windows, install all the dependencies I need, drop the necessary programs on there and done.

[Delicieuxz]

18 minutes ago, 2Buck said:

Here we are again, folks. More Windows 10 bullshit! Oh, but those of us who are still on 7/8.1 are just "clingy and can't move on".

 

Can Adobe programs just hurry up and come to Linux? I've gotten all the games/emulators I care about running in Linux, and all of the other programs I use are running in Linux. I'm so close to switching, I've been playing with Linux more and more and damn, it's just better than Windows in every way. I'M READY.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Also @Delicieuxz, thanks for your bullshit free pre updated Windows 7 SP1 ISO. It's been a lot of help. No more battling Windows update for me, and the few updates I want to install, I have the offline installers. Setting up a machine has never been quicker. I just install Windows, install all the dependencies I need, drop the necessary programs on there and done.

I'm glad it's helping!

 

And, yeah, having key productivity software like Adobe's made available for Linux would make a lot of people migrate from Windows.

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

2034 : Microsoft has successfully rolled out Windows Update patch 1809 (relaunch 2254)