The tech industry is losing patience with Microsoft over Windows 10 updates / Re-release of Win 10 v1809 still plagued with issues

[captain_to_fire]

1 minute ago, mrchow19910319 said:

high sierra is "okay" only. compares to the old days, it is not a stable version. 

but then again... apple's software and hardware had gone downhill. 

I heard someone said it in their youtube video, (and he is not a tech reviewer,he's a programmer) and he said apple's profit had gone up, but the devices they sold had gone down. he said he think that after 10 years or something like that, this apple trend is gonna die off. and I somewhat agree with him.... had a ton of OS / hardware issues with my 2017 macbook pro. and giving the price apple charges, I don't see myself spend that much money on a mac any time soon. 

While there are security issues, I read somewhere that a lot of the high sierra issues are about the transition from HFS+ to APFS. 

[ZacoAttaco]

2 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

The next time Microsoft releases it again, it’s already January 2019 but they’ll still name it Windows 10 October update.  

banned for plugging own topic thread

3 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

 I wonder how does HR in Microsoft hire people?

I don't think Microsoft has great marketing, Apple are clearly the leader in that department, you could argue Apple has the best marketing in the world. That and the McDonalds corporation.

 

I think Microsoft has good ideas, but they have trouble executing them properly. They have trouble converting them from ideas to actual functionality.

[Delicieuxz]

39 minutes ago, Master Delta Chief said:

Sounds like the average user is basically a 'test-subject' on whether the update actually works or not nowadays.

That's precisely what Microsoft counts Windows 10 Home and Pro owners as being:

 

https://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/33703.windows-10-servicing-branches-cb-cbb-and-ltsb-semi-annual-channel.aspx

Quote

Semi-Annual Channel(Targeted) / CB (Current Branch)

This is the latest version of Windows and is called Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted), this version receives all upgrades (new versions) and updates (patches) from Microsoft within a few days of their release.  Semi-Annual Channel(Targeted) is what all home users get and what most small business corporate Pro users will get.

 

...

 

New feature update releases are initially considered as Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted) releases: organizations will use these for pilot deployments to ensure compatibility with existing apps and infrastructure. After about four months, the feature update will be declared as Semi-Annual Channel, indicating that it is ready for broad deployment. Each Windows 10 feature update (which initially begins as Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted) and then is declared as Semi-Annual Channel) will be serviced with quality updates for a minimum of 18 months after it is released.

 

If you run Windows 10 Home or Pro, you're an unpaid beta tester for Microsoft. That, among other reasons, is why I don't recommend Windows 10 Home or Pro to anybody.

 

There's also the detail that Microsoft has downgraded the identity of all Windows editions from the Windows 7 and 8 days so that Windows 10 Pro isn't comparable to Windows 7 Pro, but is more like a mix between Windows 7 Starter and Home editions, with some further neutering to admin controls. The analogous Windows 10 edition to Windows 7 Pro is Windows 10 Enterprise or LTSB / LTSC.

[DrMacintosh]

9 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

Never used macOS High Sierra but I think its issues aren’t as awful as the W10 October November 2018 update am I right? @DrMacintosh @mrchow19910319

Yes. The worst we had, imo, in High Sierra was a graphical glitch when waking from sleep that went away after half a second. 

 

[ZacoAttaco]

3 minutes ago, mrchow19910319 said:

high sierra is "okay" only. compares to the old days, it is not a stable version. 

but then again... apple's software and hardware had gone downhill.  

I heard someone said it in their youtube video, (and he is not a tech reviewer,he's a programmer) and he said apple's profit had gone up, but the devices they sold had gone down. he said he think that after 10 years or something like that, this apple trend is gonna die off. and I somewhat agree with him.... had a ton of OS / hardware issues with my 2017 macbook pro. and giving the price apple charges, I don't see myself spend that much money on a mac any time soon. 

Just install Linux if you're having issue...oh wait...never mind.

 

_{I know it's only for certain models with the T2 chip.}

[mrchow19910319]

Just now, captain_to_fire said:

While there are security issues, I read somewhere that a lot of the high sierra issues are about the transition from HFS+ to APFS. 

true. It took me a couple of times to upgrade to high sierra. and there are a few times it gives me issue AFTER I upgrade to it. (screen glitching/animation acting funny and such) nothing a OS reinstall won't fix. But I heard people complain that they failed to install high sierra, then they tried to revert back to sierra using time machine, but their time machine drive is in the old format, and their laptop had already been converted to APFS... I don't know how they solved their issues. But that's sounds like a problem... 

[mrchow19910319]

Just now, ZacoAttaco said:

Just install Linux if you're having issue...oh wait...never mind.

 

_{I know it's only for certain models with the T2 chip.}

welp, linux isn't perfect either... there are a lot of software you cannot use if you use linux.. (if I remember correctly)

[DrMacintosh]

7 minutes ago, mrchow19910319 said:

he said he think that after 10 years or something like that, this apple trend is gonna die off.

I’ve heard that before....

[captain_to_fire]

Just now, ZacoAttaco said:

 

I think Microsoft has good ideas, but they have trouble executing them properly. They have trouble converting them from ideas to actual functionality.

I think that’s probably the reason why Apple is in the fence of making a macOS/iOS hybrid even though they use the same kernel even though they admitted that they’ve done a ton of tests with Macs with touchscreens. (play at 11:29)

 

[mrchow19910319]

3 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Yes. The worst we had, imo, in High Sierra was a graphical glitch when waking from sleep that went away after half a second. 

 

my laptop's screen becomes "greenish" for a bit, then went back to normal..

[DrMacintosh]

3 minutes ago, mrchow19910319 said:

then they tried to revert back to sierra using time machine

That’s not how Time Machine works....

3 minutes ago, mrchow19910319 said:

but their time machine drive is in the old format, and their laptop had already been converted to APFS

APFS is backwards compatible with HFS+, but HFS+ is not forward compatible with APFS.  whoever’s machine that was wasn’t very knowledgeable going by how he thought restoring from an old TimeMachine version would downgrade his OS. 

[ZacoAttaco]

1 minute ago, captain_to_fire said:

I think that’s probably the reason why Apple is in the fence of making a macOS/iOS hybrid even though they use the same kernel even though they admitted that they’ve done a ton of tests with Macs with touchscreens. (play at 11:29) 

 

Nice find, Jobs was ahead of his time, but I think now the market has changed and more and more people are comfortable using the touch screen and between people becoming more used to the technology and the software being more effective in tying-in to those gestures the time has change.

 

Nice find though @captain_to_fire I don't think he was wrong at the time, but I think people's needs and wants have changed since 2010.

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, mrchow19910319 said:

my laptop's screen becomes "greenish" for a bit, then went back to normal..

I only had the common static screen on wake as a result of the display walking up before the rest of the computer did. Hasn’t happened since Mojave. 

[DrMacintosh]

5 minutes ago, ZacoAttaco said:

and more people are comfortable using the touch screen

That’s realistically only because of the exposure to TouchScreens on laptops. 

 

I see touchscreen laptops as an excuse to keep putting terrible trackpads in computers. I guarantee most people would much rather have a MacBook quality trackpad in their laptops than a touchscreen. 

 

I happen to still agree with Steve’s “gorilla arm” criticism. 

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, ZacoAttaco said:

Nice find, Jobs was ahead of his time, but I think now the market has changed and more and more people are comfortable using the touch screen and between people becoming more used to the technology and the software being more effective in tying-in to those gestures the time has change.

 

Nice find though @captain_to_fire I don't think he was wrong at the time, but I think people's needs and wants have changed since 2010.

Welll... the problem is the interface. Back then, and worst before, the touch was just a mouse. The concept of pressing anywhere on a page on your web browser and not have select text but instead scroll, have larger collision detection of buttons so that you don't need to be super precise in your touch to reach some button, is all R&D that made touch screen on laptops possible. There is a big different in touch screen experience between Windows 7 and 10. And that was when Microsoft introduced the larger task bar, imagine Vista or XP... you where forced to use a pen at this point.

[captain_to_fire]

3 minutes ago, ZacoAttaco said:

Nice find, Jobs was ahead of his time, but I think now the market has changed and more and more people are comfortable using the touch screen and between people becoming more used to the technology and the software being more effective in tying-in to those gestures the time has change.

 

Nice find though @captain_to_fire I don't think he was wrong at the time, but I think people's needs and wants have changed since 2010.

After upgrading to a SSD and adding more RAM, I still can’t use my Dell Inspiron 13 as a regular tablet (it has a hinge that folds into a tablet). The UWP equivalents of the apps I use aren’t on par as the iPad versions like Complete Anatomy. The software keyboard in Windows 10 is a mixed bag. Their word suggestions is better than iOS but it’s slow to bring up when typing in forms and in browsers that aren’t Microsoft Edge. 

 

Also, I don’t think a software engineer, app developer or even a pro video editor would ever want a touchscreen alone just to use it. Heck, even in my uni most students have no problems of carrying a thin laptop and an iPad. 

[captain_to_fire]

8 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

That’s realistically only because of the exposure to TouchScreens on laptops. 

 

I see touchscreen laptops as an excuse to keep putting terrible trackpads in computers. I guarantee most people would much rather have a MacBook quality trackpad in their laptops than a touchscreen. 

 

I happen to still agree with Steve’s “gorilla arm” criticism. 

Makes me wonder why Microsoft’s excellent precision drivers used by the Surface line aren’t standard to all PC OEMs? 

[GoodBytes]

4 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

That’s realistically only because of the exposure to TouchScreens on laptops. 

 

I see touchscreen laptops as an excuse to keep putting terrible trackpads in computers. I guarantee most people would much rather have a MacBook quality trackpad in their laptops than a touchscreen. 

 

I happen to still agree with Steve’s “gorilla arm” criticism. 

That is not true. I would not use a touch screen on a 15inch laptop, but would on a 13 or smaller. I have honestly used a MacBook Pro, and many times, while I genuinely loved the trackpad and I have to admit the Surface trackpad is right behind it, but not at the same level, I still, depending on where I am, wanted to use my fingers to scroll a page for example, or tap a button, it feels faster than moving a small cursor on the screen to the destination and tap, or move the cursor on a window to scroll the content if it's not already there. If am lying on the bed, would I use the trackpad? no, not at all, it is not comfortable, but a touch screen is very welcomed as it is more comfortable in this case. same if I am on the coach. That said, and I want to highlight this, I am not saying that the trackpad is not needed. I am saying I want both.. and BOTH I want really good. I don't want a shitty touchscreen, I don't want a shitty trackpad. Both needs to be excellent or don't bother.

[iamdarkyoshi]

8 hours ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

Every day, I'm pushed a little closer to installing Linux

My daily driver laptop has been moved over

 

Main PC running LTSB. Screw updates.

[ZacoAttaco]

21 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

That’s realistically only because of the exposure to TouchScreens on laptops. 

 

I see touchscreen laptops as an excuse to keep putting terrible trackpads in computers. I guarantee most people would much rather have a MacBook quality trackpad in their laptops than a touchscreen.  

 

I happen to still agree with Steve’s “gorilla arm” criticism.  

I don't think touchscreen should be the 'primary' interface, but I think people find them using the touch-screen more than they would think.

 

Linus and Alex both said they can't use a laptop without touch-screen now, so they must have some use for it and I'd argue there's a lot of users with similar work loads/styles to those two.

 

Trackpad is still primary form on interface and should take precedent and the 'gorilla arm' is only an issue if you are constantly using the touchscreen, I'd argue 99% of people don't use the touchscreen exclusively.

[ZacoAttaco]

21 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

After upgrading to a SSD and adding more RAM, I still can’t use my Dell Inspiron 13 as a regular tablet (it has a hinge that folds into a tablet). The UWP equivalents of the apps I use aren’t on par as the iPad versions like Complete Anatomy. The software keyboard in Windows 10 is a mixed bag. Their word suggestions is better than iOS but it’s slow to bring up when typing in forms and in browsers that aren’t Microsoft Edge.  

 

Also, I don’t think a software engineer, app developer or even a pro video editor would ever want a touchscreen alone just to use it. Heck, even in my uni most students have no problems of carrying a thin laptop and an iPad. 

Yeah I think iOS and MacOS would be the smoothest transition, especially considering they both have a dedicated App Store and the way the Ecosystem is so tied in. I'd be more in favor of the iPad Pro running a basic version of MacOS than a blown-up version of iOS.

[captain_to_fire]

1 minute ago, ZacoAttaco said:

Yeah I think iOS and MacOS would be the smoothest transition, especially considering they both have a dedicated App Store and the way the Ecosystem is so tied in. I'd be more in favor of the iPad Pro running a basic version of MacOS than a blown-up version of iOS.

Well the iPad is basically a big iPod Touch. I think Apple is slowly testing the waters of merging the two operating systems. In WWDC 2018, Apple announced that they’ll provide developer APIs to make iOS apps run on the Mac with little changes to the code so that the app would run natively instead of emulating it. 

 

W10oA opted for emulating x86 on ARM which resulted to big performance penalties. Don’t get me started on the absurd pricing of some WoA tablets. 

 

[DrMacintosh]

17 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

I think Apple is slowly testing the waters of merging the two operating systems.

Definitely not. Emulating ARM on x86 is relatively easy compared to emulating x86 on ARM. 

 

Apple has put effort into getting big shot developers like Adobe to bring their apps to iPad. What is holding iPad back right now is iOS 12, that’s not to say iOS 12 is bad either. It’s by far the best iOS version since iOS 6 imo, but it’s currently not ready to take advantage of the hardware iPad has to offer. 

 

We will most likely see some fundamental changes to iOS on iPad that will bring it more in line with the Mac in terms of software capabilities while also not losing its identity as an ARM based device. 

[Canada EH]

1 hour ago, ZacoAttaco said:

rivers are compensated so poorly

Like restaurant workers, the cooks

 

special sauce

 

They probably use Windows Products for the printout thingy doodad.

 

Its best just to not update, let it slide for a month then update.

[GoodBytes]

28 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

Don’t get me started on the absurd pricing of some WoA tablets.

If you compare with their Intel versions, they are cheaper. Usually, they look the same, but the Intel version is more expensive, doesn't have LTE, or a shitty LTE modem with absurdly bad LTE performance, the keyboard and track pad got a serious quality drop with terrible keys and horrible trackpad, worst battery life, and so on, all despite the higher price tag.

 

Computer manufacture are no longer interested in value for money, They all aiming at premium product. They still have budget system of course, but their energy is what brings profits. They don't want to what they have done since 2006 which was race to the bottom. It killed HP image, it almost bankrupt Dell if it didn't manage to go private to turn things around, Sony went out and destroyed its reputation, Lenovo who had the image of robust system taking over IBM Thinkpad, is now seen as junk cheapo quality systems, etc. Companies focus has now changed.