Electricity supplies cannot be guaranteed in Belgium in the month of November

[Castdeath97]

5 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

For people that don't live in Belgium, in 2015 we were also told there wouldn't be enough power during the winter and there were also plans of when which part of the country would be "turned off" in case of a power shortage. Guess how many times a part of Belgium was actually shut down.

Of course it was 0, not a single time was there an actual lack of power so i doubt there will be actual problems this time.

 

Also, 2 years ago there was a sort of test where 10k households participated in, completely voluntary. The test was simple, reduce power usage when asked but don't go completely dark. So this means turn off lights or devices that aren't really necessary but you can keep your fridge for example plugged in. Test was very succesful and it sort of made the plans to put complete cities dark a bit redundant and unnecessary. I mean how hard can it be to just ask citizens in a country "hey, we are running out of power right now, would you mind turning off some devices and lights?" Can't be that difficult...

Smart infrastructure and even Vehicle-to-grid tech is getting better and more popular, it's a lot easier to control power demands now in cases of low output.

[Master Delta Chief]

10 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

I mean how hard can it be to just ask citizens in a country "hey, we are running out of power right now, would you mind turning off some devices and lights?" Can't be that difficult...

It ain't hard at all to ask the people to turn off the lights or any other unnecessary electrical apparatus. Problem is, people can be quite stubborn (Including myself tbh). Luckily there are a few people that still care about some stuff and actually co-operate. 

[RejZoR]

Contrary to popular belief among clueless people, nuclear power is actually very clean...

 

Everyone just freak out as soon as they hear "nuclear" and "reactor" used together thinking it's yet another Chernobyl.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

54 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Contrary to popular belief among clueless people, nuclear power is actually very clean...

 

Everyone just freak out as soon as they hear "nuclear" and "reactor" used together thinking it's yet another Chernobyl.

True, nuclear generation is clean but there has been a history of plant failures and near misses so I don't blame people for being nervous about nuclear generation (btw, I live well within ground zero of the U.S.' largest nuke plant and I don't lose sleep over it).

 

What is dirty, however, is nuclear waste disposal. That stuff will be around for thousands of years and there have been far more instances of disasters due to improper storage so that is a well warranted concern. However, i do not advocate eliminating nuke planbts just because of past problems associated with them; that would be throwing the baby out with the bath water. Since many utilites running the plants haven't taken the responsibility to clean up their act, it falls onto governments to do so but not by just banning them or unnecessarily shutting them down.

[MoonSpot]

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

Contrary to popular belief among clueless people, nuclear power is actually very clean...

 

Everyone just freak out as soon as they hear "nuclear" and "reactor" used together thinking it's yet another Chernobyl.

Though I tend to agree, it is not like they don't have any reason to.  The cost of mistakes is very high, and the cost of ensuring mistakes aren't made or insulated tend to be fiscally high up front.   Nuclear power is the business of governments and the exceptionally huge companies, its not a venture for companies needing/wanting mid-term returns cause they will create devastating problems by cutting corners.

Fortunately the world has a fair share of intelligent anal retentive people for nuclear to employ; and with Belgium and Japan being among the more fearful/shortsighted the reset of the world gets to see how going that route doesn't panout.  So, sucks for them but it was their choice.  A lucky thing is that neither Japan or Belgium has been out of the game long enough for their trained people to lose their skills, so they can start back up if they clue in sooner rather than later.

[jagdtigger]

13 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

True, nuclear generation is clean but there has been a history of plant failures human errors and near misses so I don't blame people for being nervous about nuclear generation (btw, I live well within ground zero of the U.S.' largest nuke plant and I don't lose sleep over it).

FIFY...

[LukaH]

"hoping for a non-chilly winter" 

 

great strategy can't see it failing.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

6 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

FIFY...

Normally, I do not appreciate someone one FIFY me but, at least, you did it properly by using strike throughs and bold text to indicate the correction and because you are absolutely correct. Even more accurate would be "plant failures caused by human errors".

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Just now, LukaH said:

"hoping for a non-chilly winter" 

 

great strategy can't see it failing.

No kidding! That strategy pretty much guarantees an exceptionally miserable winter.

[jagdtigger]

1 minute ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

Normally, I do not appreciate someone one FIFY me but, at least, you did it properly by using strike throughs and bold text to indicate the correction and because you are absolutely correct. Even more accurate would be "plant failures caused by human errors".

Sometimes its just better than rewriting it in my own words, but i will try to keep in mind that you dont like it.

[akio123008]

If Belgian nuclear reactors are of the same quality as Belgian motorways I can completely understand why you'd want to shut them down.

 

 

[LukaH]

22 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

No kidding! That strategy pretty much guarantees an exceptionally miserable winter.

*Murphy's law intensifies*

[Lady Fitzgerald]

22 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Sometimes its just better than rewriting it in my own words, but i will try to keep in mind that you dont like it.

Like I said, you did it properly so don't worry about it (plus there was that little matter of you being correct  ) .

[samcool55]

4 hours ago, Master Delta Chief said:

It ain't hard at all to ask the people to turn off the lights or any other unnecessary electrical apparatus. Problem is, people can be quite stubborn (Including myself tbh). Luckily there are a few people that still care about some stuff and actually co-operate. 

Well that's the thing, it's not required that everyone does something. It's fine if some people ignore it, even if half of them reduces their power usage by a decent amount, that's probably enough! I'm quite sure they are making a bigger deal of it than it actually is because they have done it before and a bit of help from citizens can probably go a long way.

 

I mean i prefer the gov to be nice to be and just ask if i want to reduce my power usage instead of scaring me for months for probably nothing. They asked us during last summer to reduce water usage because there were drought issues so why can't they ask us nicely this time?

[handymanshandle]

21 hours ago, ElfenSky said:

I understand having to maintain and modernize, but I still disagree and don't understand the reasoning of phasing them out. Nuclear is literally the best option with our current technology, especially considering we're not that earthquake prone.

bUt GrEeN eNeRgY iS tHe FuTuRe

Modernizing nuclear plants and ensuring that they are designed in a way that meets the way modern nuclear energy plants are built and maintained would be far more beneficial.

 

[Cheeky Leo]

21 hours ago, aezakmi said:

It's $484 for a MW, that's roughly 48 cents per KW

 

haven't done the math but I must be paying at least twice that per KW/h

and they have nuclear power plants not coal burning ovens

I pay half of that in Germany for "ecologic" electricity

[DrMacintosh]

22 hours ago, ElfenSky said:

Nuclear is literally the best option with our current technology, especially considering we're not that earthquake prone.

You might believe that, but popular opinion, and quite frankly my opinion, would have us (the world)  pursue other options. 

 

Nuclear energy is "clean" but Nuclear energy has made a bad rep for itself. There is a great documentary out there (I forget the name) that showcases some of the extremely safe Nuclear reactor designs, but those designs are irrelevant if people don't want Nuclear energy. 

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

2 hours ago, akio123008 said:

If Belgian nuclear reactors are of the same quality as Belgian motorways I can completely understand why you'd want to shut them down.

The concrete in our motorways isn't rotting anywhere near as much as that in several of our nuclear plants.  So no worries, the roads will be good enough to quickly get out of the fallout zone.

 

The big problem is that our plants were originally designed to last 30 years and the oldest are now over 40.  They plan to shut them down in 2025 (if they don't extend it yet again), at which point they'll be 50. 

The concrete in some of the reactors is degrading, which caused FANC (the federal agency for nuclear control) to order the shutdown of some reactors until the situation has been properly assessed, repairs have been done and safety can be guaranteed.  Meanwhile the others can have other technical issues or need regular maintenance too, and then you eventually end up with a situation where your country has 7 reactors but only 1 that actually produces electricity.

 

 

[suicidalfranco]

Isn't heating gas powered anyway?

 

Anyway there's still option C to survive winter in confort: wood

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

31 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

Isn't heating gas powered anyway?

Most modern boilers rely on electricity for ignition.  And then there's the "smart" ioT thermostats which won't work when the power is out.

 

I use electricity to heat my place.  Luckily I live in the center of a big enough city, which means they won't shut me off.    Still, with this price hike I'll be looking into alternatives for next winter. 

 

 

[ouroesa]

This is called load shedding in South Africa. It's been a thing for many years now. Government cannot supply enough power due to their incompetencies then shuts of power to certain areas at certain times (like a roster). Glad I'm not living there anymore. 

[Donut417]

7 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

Isn't heating gas powered anyway?

 

Our furnace has electric start. THOUGH our hot-water heater has a special valve that gives it ignition without power. So when we had the ice storm last February that took out power for 4 days, we had no heat but I could take a hot shower, then freeze half to death when I got out. 

[suicidalfranco]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

Our furnace has electric start. THOUGH our hot-water heater has a special valve that gives it ignition without power. So when we had the ice storm last February that took out power for 4 days, we had no heat but I could take a hot shower, then freeze half to death when I got out. 

 

8 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

Most modern boilers rely on electricity for ignition.  And then there's the "smart" ioT thermostats which won't work when the power is out.

 

I use electricity to heat my place.  Luckily I live in the center of a big enough city, which means they won't shut me off.    Still, with this price hike I'll be looking into alternatives for next winter. 

 

 

right, completely forgot that the boiler starts with an electric spark, but i mean, it's not like that will consume as much as a fridge for example.

Frankly i moved to wood burning to keep the house warm in winter, gas bill had reached a ridiculous point where having the audacity to try to keep the house at 17° +/-0,5°, would cost me around close to 1000€ per month.

[Donut417]

18 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

17° +/-0,5°, would cost me around close to 1000€ per month.

SHIT. Im proud to be an American. Our gas bills are in the $100s of dollars. I think $300-$400 is high for us and thats just in the Winter. In the summer the only gas appliance are the Hot water heater and stove. Natural Gas is sooooooo cheap here. Mind you we keep the heat at about 62 F, which is great if you ask me. Like my mom says "What keeps you warm outside, works just as good inside" 

 

20 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

moved to wood burning

My sister has a wood pellet stove where she lives. It does use electricity I think for starting it and to feed more pellets in. But they use that in the winter and it helps keep the furnace from kicking on. So yeah wood is kinda nice. A buddy of mine's parents have an attached garage with a wood burning stove. They have a vent that leads in to their house from the stove, great way to heat the house too. Plus with wood, you dont worry about if the power goes out.  

[suicidalfranco]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

SHIT. Im proud to be an American. Our gas bills are in the $100s of dollars. I think $300-$400 is high for us and thats just in the Winter. In the summer the only gas appliance are the Hot water heater and stove. Natural Gas is sooooooo cheap here. Mind you we keep the heat at about 62 F, which is great if you ask me. Like my mom says "What keeps you warm outside, works just as good inside" 

 

My sister has a wood pellet stove where she lives. It does use electricity I think for starting it and to feed more pellets in. But they use that in the winter and it helps keep the furnace from kicking on. So yeah wood is kinda nice. A buddy of mine's parents have an attached garage with a wood burning stove. They have a vent that leads in to their house from the stove, great way to heat the house too. Plus with wood, you dont worry about if the power goes out.  

Yeah it really sucks, either the cold kills you or the state owned utility company does. 

Was thinking on adding a pellet stove for the upper floor since thy don't take too much space, so far I only have a cheminee in the living room that manges to warm up the entire place minus the bedrooms cause most of the times the doors are closed. So winter in winter I tend to move my gaming rig from the office to the living room and enjoy the company of a good fire while I farm my way through warframe