The amount of bottlenecking threads...

[emosun]

leads me to believe that the video didn't really answer any questions as much as it did just create a tons of questions for people who previously never even considered it an issue. I literally just got done reading a thread about how someone was having NO issues with their computer at all but wanted to prevent it from bottle necking. I would equate that to being perfectly healthy and worrying about having a broken leg.

But beyond that , the responses to possible bottlenecking issues are much worse than the initial posts. Many of the immediate responses are recommendations for new hardware vs the most simple response which should be "what are you doing with the computer" , "whats games are you playing at what settings" , what's your cpu/gpu usage like".

If you're going to respond to bottlenecking threads can you take at least 2 seconds to consider that the user MIGHT not want to build an entirely new machine? That the user might not know a whole lot about computers and might not have a problem? and most of all , nobody cares about your pc part picker list of pre assembled components because this isn't a pc part picker list competition and some people just want to fix the machine they have.

Look i know its fun for you to find any excuse to shop for computer parts , but it's not fun for the people who have to pay for them and have no idea why they need them.

[Underwrought]

Well that PC enthusiast crowd tends to get lost in the weeds and cant see the forest for the trees.  Generally when stuff like this pops up its always at max about 5-10FPS difference which is nothing.  Its never hey my game is running like crap am I bottlenecked?  Its hey I noticed my GPU isnt running at 99% and even though I am getting 30000 FPS am I bottlenecked?

[it_dont_work]

I don't think there's really that many more than usual, the old bottleneck idea is simple enough to understand I think it just gives people the confidence to think its their specific problem, though most of the answers those threads get are kind stupid. The prevalence for throwing up a pcpp list is getting seemingly worse from what I can tell, 'Hey how can i tune or tweak this to work better' 'lol don't bother spend $xx and just get something better' 

[mr moose]

I came here for this meme but didn't see it:

 

 

 

 

 

[LogicalDrm]

I was gonna post suggestion thread to OT, but I'll paste it here:
 

Quote

The latest of LTT bottlenecking videos has just landed on YT and forum has gotten another huge surge of threads regarding subject. As most of these threads get one of two replies,

1. No
2. Depends on what you are doing with it

I don't see point of everyone cluttering forums with their own. So, asking kinda your general opinions, and also moderator opinions, if I'd make thread for asking this age-old-question, would mod team be willing to merge any reported bottlenecking thread to it. I'm not quite sure which subforum would be best place for it. Threads are located in GD, PC Gaming, New Builds and moved from GD to GPUs.

@colonel_mortis@Crunchy Dragon@Ryan_Vickers@wkdpaul@SansVarnic and others.

 

In spoiler are threads I've come across so far just in GD (granted I've been away for almost a week).

Spoiler

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956810-bottlenecking-or-not/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956716-i5-7400-adding-gtx-1060/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956671-no-bottlenecks/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956697-how-to-check-if-my-pc-bottle-necks/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956804-a-choice/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956791-is-my-pc-being-bottlenecked/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956625-ram-bottleneck/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956611-help-with-bottlenecks/

 

and so on...

 

[LogicalDrm]

3 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

there's 37 in the official thread for the video ._.

I've found couple more since just in GD, plus few more earlier from PC Gaming. This is almost as bad as when some major game releases or other high alert stuff is going on.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

14 minutes ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

I was gonna post suggestion thread to OT, but I'll paste it here:
 

@colonel_mortis@Crunchy Dragon@Ryan_Vickers@wkdpaul@SansVarnic and others.

 

In spoiler are threads I've come across so far just in GD (granted I've been away for almost a week).

  Reveal hidden contents

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956810-bottlenecking-or-not/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956716-i5-7400-adding-gtx-1060/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956671-no-bottlenecks/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956697-how-to-check-if-my-pc-bottle-necks/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956804-a-choice/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956791-is-my-pc-being-bottlenecked/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956625-ram-bottleneck/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956611-help-with-bottlenecks/

 

and so on...

 

And a lot of them are just dumb threads. Sorry, but it's true. We've got people asking if their E1 tier APUs are being bottlenecked because they're getting low FPS. No, it's not a bottleneck, it's just trash hardware. Then you have threads complaining that their 1070Tis are only getting 160 FPS (expecting 250... as if anyone has a monitor remotely capable of such FPS), asking if they're bottlenecked. At 160 FPS, even in hairy situations where the frame rate can dip, it'll still be well above 60 and maybe even 100. 

 

And now we have threads with people asking if they can overclock intel HD graphics... what is going on right now. 

[Crunchy Dragon]

19 minutes ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

I was gonna post suggestion thread to OT, but I'll paste it here:
 

@colonel_mortis@Crunchy Dragon@Ryan_Vickers@wkdpaul@SansVarnic and others.

 

In spoiler are threads I've come across so far just in GD (granted I've been away for almost a week).

  Reveal hidden contents

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956810-bottlenecking-or-not/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956716-i5-7400-adding-gtx-1060/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956671-no-bottlenecks/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956697-how-to-check-if-my-pc-bottle-necks/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956804-a-choice/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956791-is-my-pc-being-bottlenecked/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956625-ram-bottleneck/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/956611-help-with-bottlenecks/

 

and so on...

 

That honestly doesn't sound like too bad of an idea. Another reason I was thinking it might be a good idea to have a bottleneck megathread.

[LogicalDrm]

2 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

And a lot of them are just dumb threads. Sorry, but it's true. We've got people asking if their E1 tier APUs are being bottlenecked because they're getting low FPS. No, it's not a bottleneck, it's just trash hardware. Then you have threads complaining that their 1070Tis are only getting 160 FPS (expecting 250... as if anyone has a monitor remotely capable of such FPS), asking if they're bottlenecked. At 160 FPS, even in hairy situations where the frame rate can dip, it'll still be well above 60 and maybe even 100. 

 

And now we have threads with people asking if they can overclock intel HD graphics... what is going on right now. 

 

I just replied to troubleshooting thread where issue was screen going black for few secs. With title being about bottlenecking and actual bottlenecking question being about system being capable of handling 4k editing. I'm almost ready to list that as curse word, right there next to PCMR and peasant.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

3 minutes ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

 

I just replied to troubleshooting thread where issue was screen going black for few secs. With title being about bottlenecking and actual bottlenecking question being about system being capable of handling 4k editing. I'm almost ready to list that as curse word, right there next to PCMR and peasant.

At this point, we're gonna need a bot for the forums just like on the live stream. 

[bowrilla]

14 minutes ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

I'm almost ready to list that as curse word,

Almost? If I'd actually say what I was thinking about most of those threads I'd get banned. People just got way too lazy. Instead of doing some research for like 10-15min to help themselves they just creat a new thread – even though like 20 threads before a similar question has already been posted. It's not just about bottleneckig but issues in general. 

[LogicalDrm]

13 minutes ago, bowrilla said:

Almost? If I'd actually say what I was thinking about most of those threads I'd get banned. People just got way too lazy. Instead of doing some research for like 10-15min to help themselves they just creat a new thread – even though like 20 threads before a similar question has already been posted. It's not just about bottleneckig but issues in general. 

Or actually watching videos on LTT and TQ. Granted, LTT one wasn't that good nor informative. Mainly as I already know that stuff (being one that has run bottlenecked system in both ways, first with CPU bottleneck and then with GPU bottleneck). But Linus still explains what being bottlenecked means. Before showing some half meaningless graphs.

[2FA]

3 minutes ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

Or actually watching videos on LTT and TQ. Granted, LTT one wasn't that good nor informative. Mainly as I already know that stuff (being one that has run bottlenecked system in both ways, first with CPU bottleneck and then with GPU bottleneck). But Linus still explains what being bottlenecked means. Before showing some half meaningless graphs.

Is it even a LTT video if there aren't half meaningless graphs?

[AngryBeaver]

The problem is the word bottleneck has been tossed around so often and used as a negative thing or even an insult.

 

When the truth is it doesn't matter how powerful the system there will always be a bottleneck. I can take a 8700k put it under LN2 and overclock it to 7.5ghz.. then take a 1080ti toss in pretty much any game and then turn the graphics down to 720p. I can almost guarantee you that the 8700k which is literally the strongest gaming cpu atm... would bottleneck in that scenario.

 

The problem isn't IF there is a bottleneck, the issue is WHERE it occurs. If you are bottlenecking your CPU at 160fps.. then it isn't an issue. If you are bottlenecking at the cpu at 25fps though then it is.

 

The same goes for the gpu. If it can push 160fps then it isn't an issue, if it can only hit 25 fps on all low then it is. You also have to remember that resolutions and graphic intensity plays a big part in this. There is basically an imaginary slider... the more graphically demanding the more load on the gpu, the less demand and higher fps the more demand on the cpu. There isn't a way to really keep the usage on both at once under say 90% unless you specify a frame rate target/cap.

 

People just need to understand that bottlenecks are always going to happen. So don't be concerned about if you are bottlenecked, be concerned about WHERE it occurs.

[LogicalDrm]

5 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

The problem is the word bottleneck has been tossed around so often and used as a negative thing or even an insult.

There are so many other things that are caused by tech reviewers looking to get views over looking to get things across peoples minds. Like getting high fps in games and what fps drops or bad fps actually mean. Or whole ordeal with 8700K (and 7700K) being hot and needing AIO/custom loop/delid to OC. Or even use without OC.

[AngryBeaver]

40 minutes ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

There are so many other things that are caused by tech reviewers looking to get views over looking to get things across peoples minds. Like getting high fps in games and what fps drops or bad fps actually mean. Or whole ordeal with 8700K (and 7700K) being hot and needing AIO/custom loop/delid to OC. Or even use without OC.

Yep, it makes it hard for people who haven't been doing this or aren't educated or researched enough. I mean it happens here no linus's videos too, but he isn't as bad as others. I see plenty of videos where they conduct tests or comparisons that aren't even done properly or have some variable that makes them unreliable... then people see these videos and use it as gospel to fuel flawed arguments.

 

Then we get huge waves of misinformation that causes damage to the community. Like Overclocking, with todays cpu's there is little need to do it... it is free performance, but the problem is most of the time that is purely synthetic and you do not see or feel it real world. Look at the 7700k, how many people actually need it over 4.5 ghz? The 8700k is at 4.7ghz. There isn't a real need for a 5ghz cpu for most people, outside of rendering or other tasks that require the added cpu horse-power, but in those circumstances you would be better off with a higher core cpu or even a xeon.

 

I have a feeling this is why so many people pick up inexpensive consoles for their gaming needs. They don't have to worry about all of this.

[D13H4RD]

I think people just have to accept that they can't totally eliminate bottlenecks. They're still there, and their effects differ based on workload and type of application. 

 

Focus on what you want to do and then check the performance of your components on that workload. Even if it's not performing exactly at peak potential, if it still performs more than well enough, I wouldn't be so concerned 

[PlayStation 2]

Bottlenecking is all relative as fuck.

CS:GO running at 250fps instead of 320? Valve probably bloated the fuck out of the game like they've done with TF.

Now, something like a game not running as good as it genuinely could? Then look into it, but at the end of the day, bottleneck is all relative and depends on what we're looking at.

 

My 7850 sees Team Fortress 2, emulation and not much else. It does that just fine. Would it "bottleneck", per se, my 1700X in newer games? Probably, but it doesn't hold me back at all in what I do.

[Mooshi]

Spoiler: Tech ages and software will continue to be more demanding.

[D13H4RD]

10 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

My 7850 sees Team Fortress 2, emulation and not much else. It does that just fine. Would it "bottleneck", per se, my 1700X in newer games? Probably, but it doesn't hold me back at all in what I do.

Let's not forget. 

 

TF2 uses no more than 40% of my GTX 1060 

[PlayStation 2]

Just now, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Let's not forget. 

 

TF2 uses no more than 40% of my GTX 1060 

No more than 35%ish at 1080p on my 7850. 

Granted, I usually play at 1440p now and that's something like 50%, but still.

[Mira Yurizaki]

I'm sadface nobody pinged me here. But I'll just repost what I said on a thing between me and @VegetableStu

Quote

To me bottlenecks are more of a symptom of a problem rather than a problem itself. The problem itself is "not getting enough performance." I try to stress (whenever I feel like poking at this subject) that what's important is if the computer is performing to the performance values you want. Not if the computer is performing to its bestest all the time, because that is highly dependent on a bunch of variables.

 

My first real encounter with performance bottlenecks was when I added a GeForce 8800 GT to my Athlon X2 3800+ system. Some games received a decent upgrade, other games saw a bump in minimums, and one game in particular I remember had no performance benefit at all and it was the one I wanted to improve the most. Then I went to a new CPU shortly after (I think it was a few months) and everything got a noticeable improvement in performance.

 

I like to use that as an example of when to start worrying about bottlenecks. I mean, I get it, people want to make sure their system is being used to its fullest without being held back. But even in the example I have, I still got an upgrade in some use cases. I might even consider that scenario a double upgrade.

 

But in the end I think it's a short-sighted view of the bigger picture: does the computer perform to what you want for how you use it? If the video card is still outputting 120 FPS across the board even when it can get 240 FPS but you only care about getting 60 FPS, it's still doing what you want it to do. Granted it may not be the smartest decision to get this video card if you plan on keeping the same system for the next three years, but that's another thing.

 

Edited August 6, 2018 by M.Yurizaki

[Yoinkerman]

Oh boy I'm afraid to look at the video for fear I may die of misinformation

[Mira Yurizaki]

2 hours ago, Yoinkerman said:

Oh boy I'm afraid to look at the video for fear I may die of misinformation

It's not that it's misinformation, it's just scratching the surface of a complicated issue and people are taking it the wrong way.

 

It's like every time some fad diet comes out. There's probably some science to it (okay, 9 times out of 10 it's pseudoscience), but people take it the wrong way and think that said fad diet is the answer to their weight loss problem.

[D13H4RD]

4 hours ago, Yoinkerman said:

Oh boy I'm afraid to look at the video for fear I may die of misinformation

There's not really any misinformation, but it's pretty light on the whole concept of bottlenecking. 

 

I've already said this, but bottlenecking has pretty much devolved into a term thrown around by elitists and fanboys, to the point where it is made to be worse than it actually is. 

 

The upshot is this. You'll always have a bottleneck of some kind. Even with an i7 8700K/Ryzen 7 2700 and GTX 1080 Ti. Focus on what you're using your PC for and its performance in those tasks.