Tesla are running out of money and will be bankrupt by early 2019, they're asking suppliers to offer "retroactive price cuts"

[PlayStation 2]

Wah wah waaaaaah.

[TechyBen]

On 24/07/2018 at 7:56 PM, Master Disaster said:

Yeah, the test on a rolling road with a fan blowing into the engine for cooling and they used a predetermined range of rpm for X time.

 

Nobody drives down the road at exactly 4,000rpm for exactly 1 hour. The results are never even close to real world.

I often beat the stated mileage of my car. Many others do too. Yes, the MPG rating is not based on driving like a loon everywhere... but not all of us drive like loons*.

 

 

 

*all the time.

[TechyBen]

On 24/07/2018 at 9:26 PM, jeffmeyer5295 said:

I mean if we are being completely honest with ourselves any vehicle fire is very serious and is never a 'grab a fire extinguisher' kind of thing, and even if it was, who tf outside of track cars keep one on hand? A ton of gasoline cars burn to the ground all the time. Of course a car made out of lipoly batteries is going to burn once ignited but lets not pretend gasoline is any less flammable lol.

 

Don't get me wrong I get what you're saying but still.

Around here a wooden/board van cab burnt completely down. Most of these things, old or new, are flammable.

[Phentos]

15 hours ago, Amazonsucks said:

Toyotas 8AR-FTS engine is actually fun and has thermal efficiency that rivals hybrids. I highly recommend them in the Lexus lineup. Havent driven the Toyota branded cars with one but theyre probs pretty good.

Don't have the money for a Lexus 

 

I just work as a desktop support. That's Prius money, not Lexus money. 

[Amazonsucks]

3 minutes ago, Phentos said:

Don't have the money for a Lexus 

 

I just work as a desktop support. That's Prius money, not Lexus money. 

Prius are like ~$35k arent they?

[arnavvr]

On 7/24/2018 at 10:16 AM, Froody129 said:

You can't argue with expenses vs cash income. They simply do not have the money for their expenses 

 

I really hope they sort it out or get some form of government bailout or something. Electric cars have to come at some point and the sooner the better 

 

They already got one, they don't need another one. If Elon can't run his business properly, that's on him, not the taxpayers of the US.

[Phentos]

2 minutes ago, Amazonsucks said:

Prius are like ~$35k arent they?

Yea around that. My uncle bought a Prius hatchback 8 months ago with a few added features such as leather seats, collision alerts, premium sound, and wireless charging, and it came to ~$34K.

[Amazonsucks]

3 minutes ago, arnavvr said:

They already got one, they don't need another one. If Elon can't run his business properly, that's on him, not the taxpayers of the US.

Idk why Elon gets such a bad reputation. Hes ACTUALLY doing something noble and hes genuine, which is much more than can be said for the other tech billionaires like Sean Parker, Jeff Bozos, Zark Fuckerberg etc. 

 

All those companies like Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft either get more corporate welfare and govt handouts than SpaceX/Tesla, or they shelter their money in an unscrupulous fashion. 

 

Personally id rather my money go to bail out Elon Musks ventures than to the likes of Bezos or the dickheads at Google and Facebook. Theyre bullshitters who make garbage products or provide evolutionarily detrimental services.

 

If youre going to say "spare the taxpayer", and as a free market capitalist i agree, cut Amazon and the rest off from all the tax dollars they sponge.

[Amazonsucks]

8 minutes ago, Phentos said:

Yea around that. My uncle bought a Prius hatchback 8 months ago with a few added features such as leather seats, collision alerts, premium sound, and wireless charging, and it came to ~$34K.

You can get an ES350 or IS200t for around that.

[arnavvr]

16 minutes ago, Amazonsucks said:

Idk why Elon gets such a bad reputation. Hes ACTUALLY doing something noble and hes genuine, which is much more than can be said for the other tech billionaires like Sean Parker, Jeff Bozos, Zark Fuckerberg etc. 

 

All those companies like Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft either get more corporate welfare and govt handouts than SpaceX/Tesla, or they shelter their money in an unscrupulous fashion. 

 

Personally id rather my money go to bail out Elon Musks ventures than to the likes of Bezos or the dickheads at Google and Facebook. Theyre bullshitters who make garbage products or provide evolutionarily detrimental services.

 

If youre going to say "spare the taxpayer", and as a free market capitalist i agree, cut Amazon and the rest off from all the tax dollars they sponge.

Agreed, the government should get out of the business of giving companies money, and let the free market regulate itself.

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, Amazonsucks said:

You can get an ES350 or IS200t for around that.

The base model ES350 (no upgrades) has a MSRP of ~$39K

 

I guess the IS200t is an older model? It's not listed on the Lexus US website. The base IS300 starts at $38K.

 

For reference, the Prius starts at ~$24K for the base model.

[Amazonsucks]

9 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

The base model ES350 (no upgrades) has a MSRP of ~$39K

 

I guess the IS200t is an older model? It's not listed on the Lexus US website. The base IS300 starts at $38K.

 

For reference, the Prius starts at ~$24K for the base model.

Oh i just checked and theyre pulling a Mercedes Benz with the silly names. The is300 is the one with the 8AR-FTS now. 

 

As for the base prices, the base Lexus usually has more goodies than the fully loaded Toyota. That is300 is RWD with an 8 speed flappy paddle gearbox for that price, which is hard to beat. 

[dalekphalm]

3 hours ago, Amazonsucks said:

Oh i just checked and theyre pulling a Mercedes Benz with the silly names. The is300 is the one with the 8AR-FTS now. 

 

As for the base prices, the base Lexus usually has more goodies than the fully loaded Toyota. That is300 is RWD with an 8 speed flappy paddle gearbox for that price, which is hard to beat. 

Sure. But you're comparing two totally different kinds of cars.

 

That's like comparing a Miata to a RAV4. Sure, you might be able to buy either for a similar price, but they exist for totally different reasons.

 

A Prius will smoke the IS300 in terms of fuel efficiency, and depending on the model, also in terms of cargo capacity too.

 

None the less, you're also comparing cars that are $10K to $15K more expensive to begin with.

[dtaflorida]

17 hours ago, Amazonsucks said:

Personally id rather my money go to bail out Elon Musks ventures than to the likes of Bezos or the dickheads at Google and Facebook. Theyre bullshitters who make garbage products or provide evolutionarily detrimental services.

 

 

That made me think of Kylie Jenner supporters for billionaire. I wish ppl would throw cash at me.

[Drak3]

33 minutes ago, dtaflorida said:

wish ppl would throw cash at me

I don't, quarters hurt.

[Amazonsucks]

6 hours ago, dtaflorida said:

 

That made me think of Kylie Jenner supporters for billionaire. I wish ppl would throw cash at me.

I wouldnt throw money at her either.

[Bensemus]

On 7/26/2018 at 3:00 PM, arnavvr said:

They already got one, they don't need another one. If Elon can't run his business properly, that's on him, not the taxpayers of the US.

They didn't get a bailout. They got a ~$465 million loan that they paid back years ago with interest. The bailout of GM and Chrysler lost the government $10 billion. Ford still owes a few billion from the loan it took from the government. 

 

I think Tesla is a better investment then the other american automakers based on the government's past dealings with them.

 

https://www.thebalance.com/auto-industry-bailout-gm-ford-chrysler-3305670

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-05-22/tesla-pays-off-its-465-million-loser-loan

[Okjoek]

Tesla go to the bank and be like:

 

[PineyCreek]

Darn it, was kind of hoping to get their PowerWall system when I moved into a new house in a few years.  Wonder how this will play out.  Musk might have to cannibalize one of the companies to keep the others afloat.

[KingCobra484]

It’ll find a way to stay up, they always do. But it needs to change its business practices too. I see people saying there’s less maintenance, but since Tesla has a monopoly over the supply of parts and information like service manuals so they can pretty much charge whatever they like for servicing. 

 

In addition, in certain circumstances, Electric car batteries are detrimental to performance, mainly handling due to the weight of the batteries and cooling systems. Also, whilst not common, we see loads of videos of Tesla’s burning IC cars off the line, but we never see what happens after 3 or 4 consecutive runs when an IC car will still maintain a stable engine temperature whilst the electric car’s batteries will have almost certainly overheated and put the car in limp-home mode. It’s not a common occurrence I know, but it still matters.

 

Tesla needs more money for R&D to stay afloat and ahead of the competition, they have good products that need to be refined and improved upon,  they ought to stop bringing out fancy publicity stunt models and focus on their revenue-making business. 

[kuddlesworth9419]

On 7/25/2018 at 1:52 PM, Selah said:

Appealing to emotion is a really weak platform to argue from.

 

A 30 minute break every 3 hours is nowhere near inconvenient. That follows many safety guidelines and allows you to take care of other necessary functions.

Are you crazy. Ever had a driving job where you need to get somewhere? Ever been on a driving holiday? You can drive for days on end in a petrol or diesel with very fast 2 minute fill ups. Fucking around with waiting for your stupid car to charge is going to piss you off.

[dalekphalm]

7 minutes ago, kuddlesworth9419 said:

Are you crazy. Ever had a driving job where you need to get somewhere? Ever been on a driving holiday? You can drive for days on end in a petrol or diesel with very fast 2 minute fill ups. Fucking around with waiting for your stupid car to charge is going to piss you off.

Sure, it probably will piss some people off.

 

But seriously. If those people planned their trips ahead of time, it would not be a problem.

 

Plus, on top of that: If you regularly drive 400+ miles in one go multiple times per month, you are not a typical driver.

 

A typical driver will drive ~20-30 miles per day. They will drive 400+ miles perhaps 2-3 times a year.

 

You know what that person can do? Rent a car during those once a year long trips.

[ARikozuM]

12 minutes ago, kuddlesworth9419 said:

Are you crazy. Ever had a driving job where you need to get somewhere? Ever been on a driving holiday? You can drive for days on end in a petrol or diesel with very fast 2 minute fill ups. Fucking around with waiting for your stupid car to charge is going to piss you off.

Swapping out the battery at a supercharger only takes 10 minutes. You can charge for an hour and have enough power to get to the next stop. You can charge overnight. Also, if you're going on a holiday drive, why would you use your own car when you could rent and have a waiver just in case something does happen?

[Monkey Dust]

13 hours ago, Bensemus said:

They didn't get a bailout. They got a ~$465 million loan that they paid back years ago with interest. The bailout of GM and Chrysler lost the government $10 billion. Ford still owes a few billion from the loan it took from the government. 

 

I think Tesla is a better investment then the other american automakers based on the government's past dealings with them.

 

https://www.thebalance.com/auto-industry-bailout-gm-ford-chrysler-3305670

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-05-22/tesla-pays-off-its-465-million-loser-loan

Ford and GM are huge, massive employers, with a gargantuan number of pensioners dependent on their Ford/GM pensions. And then there are the huge number of parts suppliers they keep in business. Letting Ford and/or GM go bust wasn't an option, like most of the banks. Tesla going bust would have tiny repercussions by comparison, tiny number of employees, no pensioners.

 

Tesla are in serious trouble, their total debt as a percentage of turnover is massive. Even if they can make some profit on the Model 3 they have long way to go before they are in stable financial position.

 

Their hard squeeze on their suppliers is a big risk. Short term suppliers may decide to stop dealing with Tesla, which carries a high risk of disrupting production. Long term suppliers will seek to reduce their costs, and consequently the quality of many of the components they supply. Or of course suppliers could go bankrupt, again disrupting production.      

[Zodiark1593]

On 7/25/2018 at 5:52 AM, Selah said:

Appealing to emotion is a really weak platform to argue from.

 

A 30 minute break every 3 hours is nowhere near inconvenient. That follows many safety guidelines and allows you to take care of other necessary functions.

Not sure I would appreciate adding 30 minutes to my already lengthy 5 hour drive to the bay area, thank you very much, safety guidelines be damned...