Waymo’s self-driving trucks will start delivering freight in Atlanta

[NTDaws]

Waymo has been working with google to integrate the technology into the operations of these massive shippers and carriers. I like the idea of this, but I feel like there could be a loss of jobs because of this. Though it will be a good environment to work around for these trucks in Atlanta.

Spoiler

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Waymo first began testing its autonomous technology on Class-8 tractor trailers last year in California and Arizona. In January, the company brought some of its self-driving minivans to Atlanta for mapping and public testing. Google’s data centers have been located in the Atlanta region since 2003, so the idea to move into a new phase of testing involving the company’s trucks seemed like an organic next step.

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Waymo is limiting its deliveries to within its own corporate circle. The self-driving company has yet to express an interest in brokering deliveries between shippers and receivers like Uber has with its Uber Freight venture.

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Waymo and Uber had settled a lawsuit in February on allegations that Uber had stolen Waymo's self-driving secrets. It had centered around Uber's acquisition of the self-driving truck startup Otto.

What are your thoughts on these self-driving trucks?

Credit to The Verge

Editor: Andrew J. Hawkins

Link

[Jtalk4456]

First of all, there will be a loss of jobs, bu then again that's nothing new. Everyone is trying to save money, be more efficient, automation and loss of jobs is inevitable. That's why linus and luke have talked several times about the inevitability of needing a Universal Basic Income

Second, I think self driving semi's will be fine. I look forward to it

[Crunchy Dragon]

I think of self-driving trucks the same way I do of other autonomous things; all they really do is take jobs away from people. In this case, the truckers.

 

Like that burger flipping robot in California, all it really does is take jobs away from people that could use the money.

[MikeSK]

For automation that replaces jobs, would they implement physical automation tax?  In the past, automation is usually only profitable if done on a large scale.  So, put in regulations favoring people and very small businesses and pull the legislative rug out from corporations.  More representative, independence and self reliance is the goal.  Universal Basic Income will only feed a downward spiral of government dependency and people just letting go of the desire to put in any effort to live a worth while and environmentally and socially friendly life.  I see increase in violence and theft of opportunity as this will be the only way to get ahead.  Otherwise, why put in the effort if 80% of anything you earn goes to someone else not working.  Gone will be the checks and balances of effort versus reward.  For humanity to succeed, people need to be able to fail from their own devices.  When AI is eventually put in charge, AI will eventually have to pull the plug from mess of humanity.      Extinction.  

[asus killer]

this is like saying tv killed the radio, cars and train killed the horse, automated telephones killed the switchboard operator, computers killed the people that used typewriters etc... People keep trying to stop the future and humans are for the most part averse to changes.

Safer for everyone on the road (the most scary accidents on the road are of trucks that can't stop in time especially in traffic) and more economical to operate.

[Drak3]

Never going to Alanta then. I forsee issues with either software freezes or these machines being hacked.

[AshleyAshes]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Never going to Alanta then. I forsee issues with either software freezes or these machines being hacked.

Unlike those flawless human drivers, amirite? :V

 

[Taf the Ghost]

11 minutes ago, asus killer said:

this is like saying tv killed the radio, cars and train killed the horse, automated telephones killed the switchboard operator, computers killed the people that used typewriters etc... People keep trying to stop the future and humans are for the most part averse to changes.

Safer for everyone on the road (the most scary accidents on the road are of trucks that can't stop in time especially in traffic) and more economical to operate.

The first issue is that there's yet to be proof that Automated Trucking will actually be more cost effective than Driver Operated. Everything actually points to it being more expensive, and even increased utilization arguments don't hold up since carry capacity is almost never the limitation in any shipping.

 

What's coming seems pretty obvious to me, but so many of the Techno-Futurists (who really seem more obsessed with destroying jobs via massive government subsidization) don't get, is that voting populations are going to require a driver always be in the vehicle. It's a good compromise, but it turns all of their work into a really advanced cruise control.

[bcredeur97]

18 minutes ago, asus killer said:

this is like saying tv killed the radio, cars and train killed the horse, automated telephones killed the switchboard operator, computers killed the people that used typewriters etc... People keep trying to stop the future and humans are for the most part averse to changes.

Safer for everyone on the road (the most scary accidents on the road are of trucks that can't stop in time especially in traffic) and more economical to operate.

the problem is our current system isn't built to handle these changes. unskilled laborers need to do /something/ to make their money.

[Drak3]

Just now, AshleyAshes said:

Unlike those flawless human drivers, amirite

I think that most drivers need their licenses revoked, but I'd still trust the average dipshit more than a machine when it comes to driving.

[Okjoek]

I'm not sure I like the idea of humans sharing the same roads as the autonomous vehicles, but maybe I don't know just how good this enterprise AI is. *shrugs*

 

I personally hate driving, it gives me anxiety. Humans weren't meant to be in control of several ton death machines flying around eachother at 30-60+ MPH

[NTDaws]

2 hours ago, asus killer said:

-snip-

Volvo had increased its braking volume by alot. https://youtu.be/ridS396W2BY

[Beskamir]

9 hours ago, Being Delirious said:

but I feel like there will be a loss of jobs because of this.

There, fixed that for ya

[mr moose]

8 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

The first issue is that there's yet to be proof that Automated Trucking will actually be more cost effective than Driver Operated. Everything actually points to it being more expensive, and even increased utilization arguments don't hold up since carry capacity is almost never the limitation in any shipping.

 

What's coming seems pretty obvious to me, but so many of the Techno-Futurists (who really seem more obsessed with destroying jobs via massive government subsidization) don't get, is that voting populations are going to require a driver always be in the vehicle. It's a good compromise, but it turns all of their work into a really advanced cruise control.

Your trying to apply 20th century market economies and culture to a 21st century technology. 

 

8 hours ago, bcredeur97 said:

the problem is our current system isn't built to handle these changes. unskilled laborers need to do /something/ to make their money.

As above,  More jobs have been lost to recessions (even in the last 10 years)  than any automation has ever done.  We still keep moving forward.  If people become financially ruined because of automation you have a problem with your society not the technology.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

Your trying to apply 20th century market economies and culture to a 21st century technology. 

Last Mile Problem. Pedestrian Problem (which is more intense with trucking). Liability Problem.

 

"Advanced Autopilot" is the future.Which will be mostly self-driving cars with a human in there being both responsible and dealing with the odd issues that crop up. It's a surprisingly easy solution to the issue, much like with factory automation. But, as I said, there is deep questions about the economic viability of Automated Trucking. You're replacing expensive vehicles with even far more expensive vehicles when there's little in the way of efficiency to be had. "Cool Tech" is cool, but I don't see you using a MiniDisc player.

[mr moose]

22 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Last Mile Problem. Pedestrian Problem (which is more intense with trucking). Liability Problem.

 

"Advanced Autopilot" is the future.Which will be mostly self-driving cars with a human in there being both responsible and dealing with the odd issues that crop up. It's a surprisingly easy solution to the issue, much like with factory automation. But, as I said, there is deep questions about the economic viability of Automated Trucking. You're replacing expensive vehicles with even far more expensive vehicles when there's little in the way of efficiency to be had. "Cool Tech" is cool, but I don't see you using a MiniDisc player.

Mini disc player got replaced by an mp3 player (which in turn got replaced with internet connected phones).  Manned autopilot will just get replaced with an unmanned something else.   They already have passenger carrying trains with no drivers in London (no anyone on board).  

[divito]

On 3/9/2018 at 1:55 PM, Taf the Ghost said:

The first issue is that there's yet to be proof that Automated Trucking will actually be more cost effective than Driver Operated. Everything actually points to it being more expensive, and even increased utilization arguments don't hold up since carry capacity is almost never the limitation in any shipping.

Depends on if there's any collaboration in tech, and how it scales down to each type of vehicle. The efficiency comes from saving driver wages, insurance, not having to deal with driver error, mandated breaks that take away from drive time, drivers getting hooked on drugs, and then fuel becomes your only limiting factor for non-stop deliveries. Yes, initial cost will probably make it seem like less of a savings, but many logistics companies have already ran the numbers and approve. 

All industries have been restructured to account for technological innovation. Some jobs have been lost, and others have risen in their stead. Ultimately, there will be a diminishing effect to jobs created in my opinion, as tech and AI advance into other industries, but hopefully society by that point will have figured out a realistic scenario for basic income.

[Taf the Ghost]

43 minutes ago, divito said:

Depends on if there's any collaboration in tech, and how it scales down to each type of vehicle. The efficiency comes from saving driver wages, insurance, not having to deal with driver error, mandated breaks that take away from drive time, drivers getting hooked on drugs, and then fuel becomes your only limiting factor for non-stop deliveries. Yes, initial cost will probably make it seem like less of a savings, but many logistics companies have already ran the numbers and approve. 

All industries have been restructured to account for technological innovation. Some jobs have been lost, and others have risen in their stead. Ultimately, there will be a diminishing effect to jobs created in my opinion, as tech and AI advance into other industries, but hopefully society by that point will have figured out a realistic scenario for basic income.

3D Printing. It was going to be the biggest thing in the world! Everyone was going to have a 3D Printer in their home. It's the wave of the future!

 

Turns out to be amazing for certain industrial & spec manufacturing, very useful for rapid prototyping, but it's almost never going to see Home Use because it simply requires too much.

 

It isn't like we haven't gone through this before. The issue isn't the tech existing; it's always the implementation & utility cost. Into a massively mature industry like shipping, every step has to be cost-effective for the end-user. This isn't something you can do in a VC-like approach with lots of money and attempting to make up the massive losses later via an IPO. This will follow the path of most Industrial Application technologies: stepwise increase of the productivity of the Human Operator.

 

The main benefits will likely be with highway transport, rather than local short-haul, but expect laws requiring "Drivers" in the vehicles. The only place to expect to find fully autonomous driving is with the Military. Supply convoys are always weak points, so it's kind of easier to not have to defend them directly. (That gets expensive, quickly, though.) When you can isolate down the inputs & outside effects, the automated processes can be leveraged to work very well. 

 

I do expect Tesla's battery powered short-haul to be of interest to quite a number of companies. Especially ones with very active warehouse systems. 

[divito]

1 minute ago, Taf the Ghost said:

3D Printing. It was going to be the biggest thing in the world! Everyone was going to have a 3D Printer in their home. It's the wave of the future!

 

Turns out to be amazing for certain industrial & spec manufacturing, very useful for rapid prototyping, but it's almost never going to see Home Use because it simply requires too much.

I think it's a little much to stretch it as analogous to 3D printing. 3D TVs, printing, and VR are all gimmicks. Autonomous driving, in consumer and logistical form hold much more potential from what I've seen in my opinion. Regulatory hurdles will always abound with certain areas of technology.

[2FA]

30 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

he main benefits will likely be with highway transport, rather than local short-haul, but expect laws requiring "Drivers" in the vehicles. The only place to expect to find fully autonomous driving is with the Military. Supply convoys are always weak points, so it's kind of easier to not have to defend them directly. (That gets expensive, quickly, though.) When you can isolate down the inputs & outside effects, the automated processes can be leveraged to work very well. 

Volkswagen is building the Vizzion which uses Level 5 autonomy* slated for a 2022 release (will probably get delayed though).

 

*Level 5 is fully autonomous with zero part of the driving handled by the "driver" and doesn't even have driving controls available to the humans inside.

[dizmo]

15 minutes ago, DeadEyePsycho said:

Volkswagen is building the Vizzion which uses Level 5 autonomy* slated for a 2022 release (will probably get delayed though).

 

*Level 5 is fully autonomous with zero part of the driving handled by the "driver" and doesn't even have driving controls available to the humans inside.

I could see them releasing a car like that, but only in certain areas. Likely places in Europe, where it's much easier to sort out the issues that might arise. I'm kind of excited to see it. Automated driving, once they iron it out, will be a great piece of technology. I think 2022 is awfully ambitious though.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, divito said:

I think it's a little much to stretch it as analogous to 3D printing. 3D TVs, printing, and VR are all gimmicks. Autonomous driving, in consumer and logistical form hold much more potential from what I've seen in my opinion. Regulatory hurdles will always abound with certain areas of technology.

3D Printing is big business and has changed a whole lot of things in areas you don't see, however it isn't the wunderkind technology it was being heralded as during the mid-2000s.

 

Automated Driving, as an ultra-advanced cruise control, is going to slowly come into the top-end models and work its way down to mid-tier models of cars over the next 15 years. Level 4 will enter the market over the next few years, but it's likely to always be on fairly expensive cars only. The sensor package maintenance and liability issues are never going away.

44 minutes ago, DeadEyePsycho said:

Volkswagen is building the Vizzion which uses Level 5 autonomy* slated for a 2022 release (will probably get delayed though).

 

*Level 5 is fully autonomous with zero part of the driving handled by the "driver" and doesn't even have driving controls available to the humans inside.

I was going to put out that a Level 5 would never be allowed on the roads in most of the World, as it doesn't qualify as a "car" in most of the modern world. But then I realized that in the USA, they'd be automatically banned. A Level 5 autonomous vehicle would actually be, properly, a guided munitions platform and banned under Arms Control laws. They're GPS & Ground-tracking Radar delivery platforms. 

 

The tech will be pretty fun in the 2030s, after all of the civil wars currently on trend in most Modern economies. 

[2FA]

4 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

I was going to put out that a Level 5 would never be allowed on the roads in most of the World, as it doesn't qualify as a "car" in most of the modern world. But then I realized that in the USA, they'd be automatically banned. A Level 5 autonomous vehicle would actually be, properly, a guided munitions platform and banned under Arms Control laws. They're GPS & Ground-tracking Radar delivery platforms. 

 

The tech will be pretty fun in the 2030s, after all of the civil wars currently on trend in most Modern economies. 

Thanks, desk chair lawyer!

[mr moose]

7 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

3D Printing is big business and has changed a whole lot of things in areas you don't see, however it isn't the wunderkind technology it was being heralded as during the mid-2000s.

 

That's because for some people it was and still is the best thing since sliced bread.   It's also still a developing technology.   However the important bit is that we remember that is only for some people.  Getting excited about fancy new appliances does not detract from the enormity that converging technologies like automated logistics, decentralized networks and the IOT is going to have a massive effect on how society operates.    This is why it is important to differentiate between how revolutions come to be and how the world changes as a result.   There are commonalities between the previous two revolutions and what is shaping up to be the next.  The biggest one was the massive shift in cultural thinking from before to after each revolution.   Hence why I say we can't  judge 21st century technology using 20th a century mindset.  

 

Imagine if they didn't build trains because some people thought the result of two people operating one machine that does the job of 20 people and 30 horses would land the country in ruin.   

[Canada EH]

Start looking into the big rigs cab and see who's driving it.

 

I have a few friends who drive truck, both lifers, ones long haul across the border, the other does the same route, and they tell some interesting stories. I dont know if they are owner/operators or not.