NVIDIA could price the next-gen GeForce GTX 2080 at up to $1499 USD

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, Equlix said:

I can't wait to live in a world where I have to buy a gpu and then buy a GeForce yearly license to process dx13 games.

 

Solving a temporary supply problem with a permanent and anti-consumer licensing solution is pretty short sighted. If we give them an inch to stop crypto mining from stepping on gamers toes they will take a mile. Thats all I'm saying.  

So get used to a gpu being at least $200 over MSRP, mining isn't going anywhere. The supply problem isn't going to get better as long as memory manufacturers are price gouging while the phone manufacturers pay more to get the largest share of ram. Adding a GPU license is a bad idea,I agree that is very anti-consumer however adding detection to limit mining in drivers is reasonable as long as Nvidia makes a mining card,though of course Nvidia won't do anything as they already had the chance to with 10 series gpus.

[RotoCoreOne]

Regardless of these rumors, we can be assured that prices will be up significantly. If not nvidias usual trend, it's the price of gddr5 rising.

[Donut417]

These threads are getting about as depressing as the news here in the US. 

 

Doesnt matter if Nvidia increases the price or not, prices will be high regardless. The one thing that really bugs me, is all the people saying wait for the prices the come down. They dont understand, this could take years and years to happen. What I can say is this, Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo have an opportunity here. There are millions of pissed off gamer's that they could be trying to steal away from PC gaming. While my heart is int to PC gaming, Im not willing to pay the cost. So I have a feeling many will leave to consoles. At least for a few years until prices come down if prices come down. Lets hope Intel actually comes out with a decent card in the near future and we have 3 options out there in the market. That could help with demand a bit. 

[Zodiark1593]

3 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

So get used to a gpu being at least $200 over MSRP, mining isn't going anywhere. The supply problem isn't going to get better as long as memory manufacturers are price gouging while the phone manufacturers pay more to get the largest share of ram. Adding a GPU license is a bad idea,I agree that is very anti-consumer however adding detection to limit mining in drivers is reasonable as long as Nvidia makes a mining card,though of course Nvidia won't do anything as they already had the chance to with 10 series gpus.

Even if specific mining programs could be blacklisted via the drivers, new clients can be developed to sidestep the limitations. Short of stripping out CUDA.and OpenCL altogether, which would be quite loathed among many communities, there isn't really anything Nvidia can do to single out mining.

[ravenshrike]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

The one thing that really bugs me, is all the people saying wait for the prices the come down.They dont understand, this could take years and years to happen. What I can say is this, Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo have an opportunity here. There are millions of pissed off gamer's that they could be trying to steal away from PC gaming.

Both Raven Ridge APUs can play all modern games at 1080p low-med settings 50-60fps with some overclocking and a cheap aftermarket cooler. So between $450-$550 for an entire system at current prices. Less if you go bargain basement, but I assume one would want at least 3000 Mhz ram. Moreover, the prices aren't affecting prebuilt systems nearly as much. The idea that PC gaming is reliant on the cutting edge of DIY systems is ludicrous.

[Master Disaster]

3 hours ago, Donut417 said:

These threads are getting about as depressing as the news here in the US. 

 

Doesnt matter if Nvidia increases the price or not, prices will be high regardless. The one thing that really bugs me, is all the people saying wait for the prices the come down. They dont understand, this could take years and years to happen. What I can say is this, Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo have an opportunity here. There are millions of pissed off gamer's that they could be trying to steal away from PC gaming. While my heart is int to PC gaming, Im not willing to pay the cost. So I have a feeling many will leave to consoles. At least for a few years until prices come down if prices come down. Lets hope Intel actually comes out with a decent card in the near future and we have 3 options out there in the market. That could help with demand a bit. 

It matters for Nvidia and that's the point, unlike AMD Nvidia sell direct to customers and by doing so have to Honor their own MSRP so they're not likely to release the 2080 for $699 when the 1080 is selling for $1200 everywhere else.

 

Fucking miners ruining everything, this is why we can't have nice things. Once this happens it's VERY unlikely Nvidia will drop it back down when prices normalise. The cost of the x80 just went up to match the cost of a Titan.

[Demonking]

17 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

It matters for Nvidia and that's the point, unlike AMD Nvidia sell direct to customers and by doing so have to Honor their own MSRP so they're not likely to release the 2080 for $699 when the 1080 is selling for $1200 everywhere else.

 

Fucking miners ruining everything, this is why we can't have nice things. Once this happens it's VERY unlikely Nvidia will drop it back down when prices normalise. The cost of the x80 just went up to match the cost of a Titan.

Years to come down shit i might as well just buy a switch instead of a new gpu with my $ saved for a new gpu. 

[Gdourado]

This totally killed pc gaming...

Just get a PS4 pro for 300 dollars and enjoy free games with hen.

Play those PS4 exclusives until all this crazyness with mining is over...

[Donut417]

8 hours ago, ravenshrike said:

Moreover, the prices aren't affecting prebuilt systems nearly as much.

I enjoy the building part of the PC expirence. So I will NOT buy any pre builts. PERIOD. Also, if prices go up like the article says, then even prebuilts are going to go up in price. 

 

8 hours ago, ravenshrike said:

Both Raven Ridge APUs can play all modern games at 1080p low-med settings 50-60fps with some overclocking and a cheap aftermarket cooler

Im pretty sure my HD7950 still crushes these in GPU performance. When they can release an APU at my GPU's equivalent or greater then Ill think about APU's. 

[SpaceGhostC2C]

Reality always wins. Prices reflect market conditions (that is, actual prices you face when buying something. Everything else -MSRPs, the prices any forum member may deem "fair", the prices your cousin expected to see, etc- is a toast to the sun). Intel launched quad-core after quad-core at around the same price, if not higher at times. Then it launched a six-core that is already selling by less than the last quad. AMD was "the value brand" by selling octa-cores at $150, now it claims to be "the value brand" selling octa-cores at $300. It's not about pricing things at some magical number, it's not about pricing lower or higher than last gen, it's just about playing the cards you got at each point in time to get the most out of them.

(haha, "cards", get it? No, really, it was just coincidence).

There's no need to wait for any company's announcement: the actual price of GPUs (or the price of a unit of GPU computational power per watt) is readily available.

 

15 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

 I mean it isn't always as extreme as that but generally you can have performance that is better value compared to last generation so the whole nation that nvidia wouldn't price their next gen in a way that would make last gen uncompetitive is silly as it has always been the case. Buying the last gen new has always been a bad deal once the next gen has released because they don't lower the prices on last gen very much if at all and the next gen is just a way better value. 

No, that is not true at all. Sure, if you look at whatever MSRP was set when the previous gen launched, sure, they typically seem to be worse value than the brand new gen. But that's a flawed comparison to determine value today: if you look at the prices of last gen cards at the same time (that is, when both gens are out in the market), which is substantially lower, then you'll find that they tend to be much more aligned in terms of value. When you say that "they don't lower the prices on last gen very much if at all", you are just referring to the irrelevant MSRP that companies seldom bother to adjust. The relevant price, the one you face as a consumer when buying a product, that change to reflect the changes in market conditions. Just to use the same example you cite: the GTX 970 launched at $329 MSRP. Before the second mining peak (around or right before the launch of the 1070ti) I could buy a 970 (new) for €150 on sale, €170 more regularly. A 1060-3 would only fall to €200 on sale, while the 1060-6 would at least cost €240.

Yes, you'll find the odd shop out trying to charge whatever for older products (guess storage is cheap for them ), but for the most part market prices reflect performance and features, not ancient claims by chip designers.

[Master Disaster]

1 hour ago, Gdourado said:

This totally killed pc gaming...

Just get a PS4 pro for 300 dollars and enjoy free games with hen.

Play those PS4 exclusives until all this crazyness with mining is over...

So hang on a minute, your response to a hike in PC GPU prices is to tell users to buy a PS4 and pirate games?

[Brooksie359]

4 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Reality always wins. Prices reflect market conditions (that is, actual prices you face when buying something. Everything else -MSRPs, the prices any forum member may deem "fair", the prices your cousin expected to see, etc- is a toast to the sun). Intel launched quad-core after quad-core at around the same price, if not higher at times. Then it launched a six-core that is already selling by less than the last quad. AMD was "the value brand" by selling octa-cores at $150, now it claims to be "the value brand" selling octa-cores at $300. It's not about pricing things at some magical number, it's not about pricing lower or higher than last gen, it's just about playing the cards you got at each point in time to get the most out of them.

(haha, "cards", get it? No, really, it was just coincidence).

There's no need to wait for any company's announcement: the actual price of GPUs (or the price of a unit of GPU computational power per watt) is readily available.

 

No, that is not true at all. Sure, if you look at whatever MSRP was set when the previous gen launched, sure, they typically seem to be worse value than the brand new gen. But that's a flawed comparison to determine value today: if you look at the prices of last gen cards at the same time (that is, when both gens are out in the market), which is substantially lower, then you'll find that they tend to be much more aligned in terms of value. When you say that "they don't lower the prices on last gen very much if at all", you are just referring to the irrelevant MSRP that companies seldom bother to adjust. The relevant price, the one you face as a consumer when buying a product, that change to reflect the changes in market conditions. Just to use the same example you cite: the GTX 970 launched at $329 MSRP. Before the second mining peak (around or right before the launch of the 1070ti) I could buy a 970 (new) for €150 on sale, €170 more regularly. A 1060-3 would only fall to €200 on sale, while the 1060-6 would at least cost €240.

Yes, you'll find the odd shop out trying to charge whatever for older products (guess storage is cheap for them ), but for the most part market prices reflect performance and features, not ancient claims by chip designers.

I looked at the prices when I was about to buy a new gpu and at the time the last gen gpus were still around their msrp on newegg. So unless you are calling newegg an odd shop then I would have to disagree with you.

[Spongy141]

23 hours ago, TheDankKoosh said:

Those theoretical "200" cards don't exist in our current situation, and either way the cards are going to keep selling in their current volumes regardless of price. This is why they are jacking the prices up, those theoretical volume sales have already happened on a normal market, but with the mark-up they are making much more then they would be if they were selling at MSRP. This has nothing to do with conspiracy, but actual economic which you are telling me to educate myself on. I think I have a decent grasp on this situation without being a market insider.  

But they are not selling out at the higher prices... Miners do not buy cards with a low return value. Just go look for a higher end GPU and you will find plenty in stock, if you were right then they would all be sold out, which is just not the case.

[Spongy141]

23 hours ago, mr moose said:

Not too sure you said what you meant to say,  both Nvidia and AMD are selling everything they have, there is no decrease in volume due to higher prices.  People are just paying more and still buying everything.

 

I'm not even sure it is mining or ram that is the biggest driver of all this.  There is so much hype around the cost of cards and availability that people who really want them will be running out and trying to get them before the price goes any higher.  It's actually normal market trends, you see it with stocks and commodities and even in the banking sector all the time.  A whiff of fear in the wind that something is going to fail and everyone sells ensuring it's failure.  Same thing with GPU's, everyone is blaming mining and ram saying it is getting worse,  so those who want to buy are trying to get in before it gets worse which only cements the whole situation.   I believe they call it panic buying/selling.

 

 

 

 

The higher prices on high-end GPU's (WHICH MINERS DO NOT BUY, LET'S MAKE THAT PERFECTLY CLEAR) are NOT sold out, the people who actually would buy these GPU's now cannot afford to do so, resulting in the decrease volume of sales. And as I already stated the volume of GPU's sales is already going down year to year. Miners buy GPUs with a high return, it make's zero sense to buy a GPU that will not get you any return value in mining (high-end GPU's). So back to my main point, Nvidia and AMD are making less money since they are selling fewer cards (of the high-end variant)

[Blademaster91]

22 minutes ago, Spongy141 said:

The higher prices on high-end GPU's (WHICH MINERS DO NOT BUY, LET'S MAKE THAT PERFECTLY CLEAR) are NOT sold out, the people who actually would buy these GPU's now cannot afford to do so, resulting in the decrease volume of sales. And as I already stated the volume of GPU's sales is already going down year to year. Miners buy GPUs with a high return, it make's zero sense to buy a GPU that will not get you any return value in mining (high-end GPU's). So back to my main point, Nvidia and AMD are making less money since they are selling fewer cards (of the high-end variant)

You're implying that nvidia/amd are making less money? If that were the case both wouldn't have record profit which is obviously from the miners. Maybe high end gpu's are in stock in your country however in North America everything but low end gpu's are out of stock, miners aren't paying msrp's either they order by the pallet load and get regular pricing from nvidia/amd.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, Spongy141 said:

The higher prices on high-end GPU's (WHICH MINERS DO NOT BUY, LET'S MAKE THAT PERFECTLY CLEAR) are NOT sold out, the people who actually would buy these GPU's now cannot afford to do so, resulting in the decrease volume of sales.

But they are being sold out.  All the stock both nvidia and AMD are shipping is selling regualrily and the "sold out" message appears very frequently.  In some stores the shelves are empty, they just can't keep them stocked. Every news article makes the same claims.

 

2 minutes ago, Spongy141 said:

And as I already stated the volume of GPU's sales is already going down year to year.

We know this, but that doesn't prove anything other than the total demand for dGPU's is shrinking over time.   There are lots of possible causes for this.

 

2 minutes ago, Spongy141 said:

Miners buy GPUs with a high return, it make's zero sense to buy a GPU that will not get you any return value in mining (high-end GPU's).

I don't see how that explains changes in sales trends over long periods.

 

2 minutes ago, Spongy141 said:

So back to my main point, Nvidia and AMD are making less money since they are selling fewer cards (of the high-end variant)

But they aren't, they are both making more money today than they were last year even with reduced sales in GPU's.  

 

There is a lot more to economics than the superficial evaluations we put on who would buy what at what price.

 

 

 

 

[TheDankKoosh]

39 minutes ago, Spongy141 said:

The higher prices on high-end GPU's (WHICH MINERS DO NOT BUY, LET'S MAKE THAT PERFECTLY CLEAR) are NOT sold out, the people who actually would buy these GPU's now cannot afford to do so, resulting in the decrease volume of sales. And as I already stated the volume of GPU's sales is already going down year to year. Miners buy GPUs with a high return, it make's zero sense to buy a GPU that will not get you any return value in mining (high-end GPU's). So back to my main point, Nvidia and AMD are making less money since they are selling fewer cards (of the high-end variant)

At least try to confirm your suspicions before you iterate on them

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/video-card/#c=390&sort=price&page=1

[Spongy141]

5 hours ago, TheDankKoosh said:

At least try to confirm your suspicions before you iterate on them

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/video-card/#c=390&sort=price&page=1

Again the cards being sold out are not the high-end cards. My point still stands, barely anyone can afford high-end GPU's anymore (EVEN MINERS CANNOT AFFORD THEM), resulting in fewer profits and volume of sales. 

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_8?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=gtx+1070

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=gtx+1070&ignorear=0&N=-1&isNodeId=1

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=rx+480&rh=n%3A172282%2Ck%3Arx+480

 

Feel free to check those links, as you will find nothing sold out, maybe some low stock, but that's the extent of it. Miners buy the cards with a good return, high-end GPUs are NOT those cards, the cards being sold out are the ones that have higher return values (not high-end cards AGAIN). So my point AGAIN, less people can afford the high-end cards, resulting in fewer volume of sales (OF THE HIGH END VARIANT) (Of cource the cards with a good return are being sold out, that is not even debatable[nor what I am debating])

 

[Donut417]

Just got done watching TechTalk. Jayztwo cents said he was contacted by an AIB whom make Nvidia cards. They state that production issues are not due to factory limitations. The issue is purely RAM. Ram producers claim they are producing RAM as fast as they are getting the materials out of the ground. So it sounds like purely a raw material issue. Doesnt make any of this better. Because the more shit that comes out that uses ram keeps increasing. 

[Drak3]

14 hours ago, Gdourado said:

This totally killed pc gaming...

No, it hasn't. It might have slowed DIY system builds, but nothing is even remotely close to getting killed.

[Donut417]

4 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

No, it hasn't. It might have slowed DIY system builds, but nothing is even remotely close to getting killed.

You're right. The 1%er are still buying the hardware. I mean its only chump change to them /sarcasm 

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, Spongy141 said:

Again the cards being sold out are not the high-end cards. My point still stands, barely anyone can afford high-end GPU's anymore (EVEN MINERS CANNOT AFFORD THEM), resulting in fewer profits and volume of sales. 

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_8?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=gtx+1070

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=gtx+1070&ignorear=0&N=-1&isNodeId=1

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=rx+480&rh=n%3A172282%2Ck%3Arx+480

 

Feel free to check those links, as you will find nothing sold out, maybe some low stock, but that's the extent of it. Miners buy the cards with a good return, high-end GPUs are NOT those cards, the cards being sold out are the ones that have higher return values (not high-end cards AGAIN). So my point AGAIN, less people can afford the high-end cards, resulting in fewer volume of sales (OF THE HIGH END VARIANT) (Of cource the cards with a good return are being sold out, that is not even debatable[nor what I am debating])

 

Showing some in stock online doesn't mean they aren't selling.   They are ALL selling, some super fast and others over the course of a few days.  All those you linked will be sold very shortly and replaced with new stock.    This long term reduced volume of sales is not caused by what you think it is.

 

Quote

Discrete cards sales jumped by almost 10% compared to Q4 2016. The site also says that demand for midrange and high-end cards has increased, while the entry-level portion of the discrete graphics market has stagnated.

So unless you know something that industry experts don't, you probably need to rethink your hypothesis. Because high end GPUs are selling and have been under higher demand.

 

https://techreport.com/news/33313/jon-peddie-research-quantifies-state-of-the-pc-graphics-market

[Spongy141]

15 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Showing some in stock online doesn't mean they aren't selling.   They are ALL selling, some super fast and others over the course of a few days.  All those you linked will be sold very shortly and replaced with new stock.    This long term reduced volume of sales is not caused by what you think it is.

 

So unless you know something that industry experts don't, you probably need to rethink your hypothesis. Because high end GPUs are selling and have been under higher demand.

 

https://techreport.com/news/33313/jon-peddie-research-quantifies-state-of-the-pc-graphics-market

There needs to be more research on this, but I still believe high-end cards are suffering in sales compared to low-end and mid-range. And a side note(My opinion), no one can really qualify as an expert in this field yet because of how new it is, really all anyone can do is speculate from what little data is available. 

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Spongy141 said:

There needs to be more research on this, but I still believe high-end cards are suffering in sales compared to low-end and mid-range. And a side note(My opinion), no one can really qualify as an expert in this field yet because of how new it is, really all anyone can do is speculate from what little data is available. 

This is the issue though, it's not speculation on our part.  These are the reports from not only major analysis firms like JP, but also actual sales figures from the industry.  We don't need to be experts to understand that prices are through the roof, all cards are being sold (except maybe some really shit ones like the 1030), mining has something to do with it and ram prices are shit also.  I have my own hypothesis but I am not about to pontificate on that, I'll just throw it out for people to consider.   

[alphaproject]

Who wants to pay 700+ for the 1070 is the better question. My 1060 6Gb was $299 out the door.... Why pay more than 2x that.... it's ridiculous. I could buy the 1070 no problem if I wanted to but in principle no way I'm paying that ridiculous price.