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Microsoft talks about performance loss from the Meltdown and Spectre patch

GoodBytes
By GoodBytes
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Microsoft briefly talk about the performance impact that users on Intel CPUs are expected to face with the Meltdown and Spectre patch.

Microsoft's Windows and Devices chief, Terry Myerson, explains in his blog post that basically, older your CPU, the greater you'll see the performance impact. However, the most hit, are those running servers environments.

 

He says:

Quote
  • With Windows 10 on newer silicon (2016-era PCs with Skylake, Kabylake or newer CPU), benchmarks show single-digit slowdowns, but we don’t expect most users to notice a change because these percentages are reflected in milliseconds.
     
  • With Windows 10 on older silicon (2015-era PCs with Haswell or older CPU), some benchmarks show more significant slowdowns, and we expect that some users will notice a decrease
    in system performance.
     
  • With Windows 8 and Windows 7 on older silicon (2015-era PCs with Haswell or older CPU), we expect most users to notice a decrease in system performance.
     
  • Windows Server on any silicon, especially in any IO-intensive application, shows a more significant performance impact when you enable the mitigations to isolate untrusted code within a Windows Server instance. This is why you want to be careful to evaluate the risk of untrusted code for each Windows Server instance, and balance the security versus performance tradeoff for your environment.

 

He explains the slow down being greater on older version of Windows and on older CPUs by (beside the CPU being slower by nature) by architecture difference:

Quote

For context, on newer CPUs such as on Skylake and beyond, Intel has refined the instructions used to disable branch speculation to be more specific to indirect branches, reducing the overall performance penalty of the Spectre mitigation. Older versions of Windows have a larger performance impact because Windows 7 and Windows 8 have more user-kernel transitions because of legacy design decisions, such as all font rendering taking place in the kernel. We will publish data on benchmark performance in the weeks ahead.

 

 

Source: https://cloudblogs.microsoft.com/microsoftsecure/2018/01/09/understanding-the-performance-impact-of-spectre-and-meltdown-mitigations-on-windows-systems/

 

I guess some good news, is that if you have a potato computer like me that desperately needs to be changed (Core i7 930, GeForce 680, 6GB of RAM), the system is already slow to do gaming properly with the latest games. So, the impact is reduced on basic day to day tasks. I guess it means for, people like me, that they would really not be able to play newer games :P

 

 

By the way, if you can't get the update, or it is failing on your side, your A/V might be the fault. Try to uninstall it, restart your system, and update again. You can also try this registry change:

https://www.onmsft.com/news/anti-virus-companies-required-to-make-changes-to-allow-meltdown-spectre-future-windows-updates

 

Also, keep in mind that Microsoft has pulled the update for AMD Athlon users due to issues with systems. Microsoft is working on this. And, yes, they are reports that some programs, mostly system level tools like motherboard Overclocking software stop working due to the patch. These software needs to be updated.

 

Did you notice the performance impact from this update?

 

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1 minute ago, GoodBytes said:

By the way, if you can't get the update, or it is failing on your side, your A/V might be the fault. Try to uninstall it, restart your system, and update again. You can also try this registry change:

https://www.onmsft.com/news/anti-virus-companies-required-to-make-changes-to-allow-meltdown-spectre-future-windows-updates

I havent gotten the update on my 4790K Win 10 system (it runs 24/7 so might have to restart) but my 7700K Win 10 system has been updated, and in general 2D and 3D modeling I havent noticed any significant productivity loss, so thats good. 

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11 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

By the way, if you can't get the update, or it is failing on your side, your A/V might be the fault. Try to uninstall it, restart your system, and update again.

It's ironic that a lot of A/V software that's supposed to protect us can actually poke more holes in our system.

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46 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

It's ironic that a lot of A/V software that's supposed to protect us can actually poke more holes in our system.

thats why they are called snakeoil.

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2 minutes ago, apm said:

thats why they are called snakeoil.

No they aren't. They are doing their purpose. You're patching things your AV is trying to not have changed. It's normal for system protection. Some are better than others, some are complete rubbish, but they aren't" snake oil".

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2 minutes ago, Ryujin2003 said:

No they aren't. They are doing their purpose. You're patching things your AV is trying to not have changed. It's normal for system protection. Some are better than others, some are complete rubbish, but they aren't" snake oil".

yes they are.

you actually dont wanna know how insecure the average AV software is.

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So TL;DR is that the i5 580M in my laptop could make me want to go crazy... Wooooooooo Intel

 

Still giggling over the fact that a bug similar to this was discovered on the 360 way back when and nobody apparently took note of it. ?

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That's interesting, because I remember people slamming Intel and MS for "forced obsolescence" when they released win 10 and Kaby lake.   It seems they were trying to get away from unnecessarily over complex legacy support*.  It really seems your damned if you do and damned if you don't these days.

 

*which is now really only starting to rear it's ugly head.

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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No performance loss noted here. Though AI Suite III v1.0.something stopped functioning (including the fan control service), meaning that I had to find v3.

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Has the update come to Win7?

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25 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

No performance loss noted here. Though AI Suite III v1.0.something stopped functioning (including the fan control service), meaning that I had to find v3.

How is that working for you? My AI Suite II started throwing server exception errors after the update, but I didn't want to go mess around with III, even though the (current) beta version seems to have solved the problem for some.

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Says haswell does that also mean Broadwell?

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Posted
27 minutes ago, Slyhawk said:

Has the update come to Win7?

It arrived on the current patch Tuesday. It was part of a cumulative update.

I haven't found much of a performance difference in Python with heavy IO or general computing on an i5-540M. 

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13 minutes ago, outercry said:

How is that working for you? My AI Suite II started throwing server exception errors after the update, but I didn't want to go mess around with III, even though the (current) beta version seems to have solved the problem for some.

Its working perfectly after I disabled the Asus services and removed AISIII V1, then installed the new version. I haven't noticed any bugs so far either.

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1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

Its working perfectly after I disabled the Asus services and removed AISIII V1, then installed the new version. I haven't noticed any bugs so far either.

Thanks a lot for that. I will give it a go later on.

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2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

 

I guess some good news, is that if you have a potato computer like me that desperately needs to be changed (Core i7 930, GeForce 680, 6GB of RAM), the system is already slow to do gaming properly with the latest games. So, the impact is reduced on basic day to day tasks. I guess it means for, people like me, that they would really not be able to play newer games :P

 

 

 

You consider that a potato computer? my laptop is the one I do all my billing onsite with an i5-4210M, and I have a dozen core2qaud (Optplex 380s) I have re-purposed, one acts as my plex server/home NAS, (I have SATA III  RAID controller in the only PCie slot) and I am worried about how hard it will be hit with transcoding.  when I have 3 1080P streams it already spikes CPU usage to 90% for a few seconds.  I don't run a NAS OS because I also use it to manage my enterprise grade APs and run the firmware upgrade software to push across all 4 my APs at once, so its Running 10 Pro, because of this patch I have pushed back all updates on it until I see how it affects my Core2 desktop I use daily.

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Well I wonder how this will affect the server cpu market? I have a feeling this might prompt some to switch to AMD for server cpus.

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4 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Well I wonder how this will affect the server cpu market? I have a feeling this might prompt some to switch to AMD for server cpus.

Is Epic even widely available yet, the old Opteron architecture is slow as hell compared to Intel.  I havent gotten any AMD partner e-mail updates if it is available.

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14 minutes ago, JCMPTech said:

Is Epic even widely available yet, the old Opteron architecture is slow as hell compared to Intel.  I havent gotten any AMD partner e-mail updates if it is available.

Supermicro I think is the only one where you can actually buy general AMD EPYC server systems from, HPE has one in it's cloud line of products but nothing in the ML/DL/Apollo range.

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7 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Supermicro I think is the only one where you can actually buy general AMD EPYC server systems from, HPE has one in it's cloud line of products but nothing in the ML/DL/Apollo range.

I am not looking for full servers but where the CPUs are available to the general public or small partners like me that build customer business solutions, not to derail the thread but I am chomping at the bit to build one, and as far as I can tell is only available to Tier1 OEMs, not small mom and pop partners.

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1 minute ago, JCMPTech said:

I am not looking for full servers but where the CPUs are available to the general public or small partners like me that build customer business solutions, not to derail the thread but I am chomping at the bit to build one, and as far as I can tell is only available to Tier1 OEMs, not small mom and pop partners.

Supermicro, you can just buy EPYC motherboards and CPUs through them. They sell parts as well as full servers.

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3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Supermicro, you can just buy EPYC motherboards and CPUs through them. They sell parts as well as full servers.

Thank you!  I used to buy from my distributor but they were the parent company for TigerDirect (infotel Distributors), and when they went under, the new company that rised in TigerDirects ashes is just terrible.

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3 hours ago, TVwazhere said:

I havent gotten the update on my 4790K Win 10 system (it runs 24/7 so might have to restart) but my 7700K Win 10 system has been updated, and in general 2D and 3D modeling I havent noticed any significant productivity loss, so thats good. 

What is the update called?

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That really sucks... I'm stuck with an i3 4170 and it was already the bottleneck of my system, i can miss it being an even bigger one...

Is there a way to measure how big the impact is for my system? O_o

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So the article only talks about CPU back to 2015. What about Ivy Bridge Chips? What kind of performance hit can I expect on my i5 3570K? Because if its alot, then I might end up upgrading. 

I just want to sit back and watch the world burn. 

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