Unannounced AMD 400-Series Chipset Appears In PCI-SIG Integrators List

[NumLock21]

2 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

honestly what card that is not a gpu can fully utilize the bandwidth of a 2.0 pcie slot? yea it kinda sucks that its not pcie3 , but its not gonna hurt you in any way , the graphics card is guaranteed 16x 3.0 from the cpu and whatever device you may use in a second slot or the m.2 will not saturate the available bandwidth of the pcie 2.0 lanes 

Idgaf if they saturate or not. People spend their hard earn money, and they deserve the best they can get.

[Space Reptile]

1 minute ago, NumLock21 said:

Idgaf if they saturate or not. People spend their hard earn money, and they deserve the best they can get.

i spend 75$ on an mATX B350 board that has 4 ram slots and can do crossfire and i got just that , and im happy w/ that as its very hard to find that feature set in this formfactor , there are hardly any intel board who do that 

each there own i guess , but i hardly believe the average consumer cares or is affected by this at all 

heck most people i see still think more vram = better when they buy a gpu , or they buy cheap shit """800w""" power-supplies for 30$

because number was bigger even tho in the end a EVGA 500B will deliver more wattage before blowing up 

 

so i have a hard time believing they will know the difference between pcie 2 and 3 or use either to its full potential 

[Notional]

28 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Well people still got screwed when you know Intel already have 3.0 on the chipset. And the mia amd x300 is also 3.0

The only thing those Intel chipset adds are more M.2 ports. But the SSD's are so expensive no one buys them anyways.

 

That being said, I do hope Zen+ gets some more lanes for M.2 on the chipset.

[Bit_Guardian]

39 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

honestly what card that is not a gpu can fully utilize the bandwidth of a 2.0 pcie slot? yea it kinda sucks that its not pcie3 , but its not gonna hurt you in any way , the graphics card is guaranteed 16x 3.0 from the cpu and whatever device you may use in a second slot or the m.2 will not saturate the available bandwidth of the pcie 2.0 lanes 

Quad 10Gbit network card?

 

Though, saying that, anything that fully utilizes Thunderbolt 3 unless my memory is failing me. And we know 8x PCIe 3.0 SSDs exist.

[cj09beira]

31 minutes ago, Bit_Guardian said:

Quad 10Gbit network card?

 

Though, saying that, anything that fully utilizes Thunderbolt 3 unless my memory is failing me. And we know 8x PCIe 3.0 SSDs exist.

Those you would put in the second x16 slot to be connected directly to the cpu

[Drak3]

1 hour ago, NumLock21 said:

Well people still got screwed when you know Intel already have 3.0 on the chipset

Except both the AMD SoC and Sky+ Intel CPUs only provide a link equivalent to PCIe 3.0 x4, with the southbridge on the Intel side acting as a PLX switch and the 'chipset' on AMD's side acting as a doubler, and the option for a straight x4 of 3.0 is available. Beyond that, manufacturers can add as many PLX bridges and switches that they want to create the same affect.

[NumLock21]

57 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

i spend 75$ on an mATX B350 board that has 4 ram slots and can do crossfire and i got just that , and im happy w/ that as its very hard to find that feature set in this formfactor , there are hardly any intel board who do that 

each there own i guess , but i hardly believe the average consumer cares or is affected by this at all 

heck most people i see still think more vram = better when they buy a gpu , or they buy cheap shit """800w""" power-supplies for 30$

because number was bigger even tho in the end a EVGA 500B will deliver more wattage before blowing up 

 

so i have a hard time believing they will know the difference between pcie 2 and 3 or use either to its full potential 

Yes, the average consumer probably won't care, but those that ask here for their help on their builds, probably will. Hey if you like to run your CFX at x16/x4 and don't care about whether your gpu runs at 2.0 or 3.0, then good for you. And there are plenty of Intel mATX boards with the same features, 4 ram slot with unbalanced CFX setup.

[cj09beira]

18 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Yes, the average consumer probably won't care, but those that ask here for their help on their builds, probably will. Hey if you like to run your CFX at x16/x4 and don't care about whether your gpu runs at 2.0 or 3.0, then good for you. And there are plenty of Intel mATX boards with the same features, 4 ram slot with unbalanced CFX setup.

Ryzen still gives you two x8 3.0 lanes for dual Gpu, this only affects chipset lanes

[Brooksie359]

On 12/23/2017 at 9:51 AM, Godlygamer23 said:

Titan V.

Yes but let's be honest here. If you are running a titan v you would be running it off the cpu lanes not the chipset so you would 3.0 lanes not 2.0. Honestly idk what the big deal is about having 2.0 for the chipset if the cpu provides enough lanes for your graphics cards. If you need more lanes than the cpu can provide then you need a different platform tbh regardless of pci limitations.

[Brooksie359]

49 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

NONE of the AMD mATX boards. I did the homework.

You shouldn't run dual gpus on a mATX tbh.

[Bit_Guardian]

Just now, Brooksie359 said:

You shouldn't run dual gpus on a mATX tbh.

Why not? They have enough slots.

[Brooksie359]

Just now, Bit_Guardian said:

Why not? They have enough slots.

Because it wasn't designed to. If they wanted to they could have given the cpu lanes to two of the slots if necessary. I don't see how the chipset is forcing them to not use the cpu lanes for two slots like they do for full atx boards.

[Bit_Guardian]

Just now, Brooksie359 said:

Because it wasn't designed to. If they wanted to they could have given the cpu lanes to two of the slots if necessary. I don't see how the chipset is forcing them to not use the cpu lanes for two slots like they do for full atx boards.

I don't mean these particular boards. It sounded like you meant don't run dual GPUs on any mATX board at all. In Intel's case you can get 8+8, or if on the HEDT platform, 16+16 just fine.

[Godlygamer23]

2 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

Yes but let's be honest here. If you are running a titan v you would be running it off the cpu lanes not the chipset so you would 3.0 lanes not 2.0. Honestly idk what the big deal is about having 2.0 for the chipset if the cpu provides enough lanes for your graphics cards. If you need more lanes than the cpu can provide then you need a different platform tbh regardless of pci limitations.

My response didn't include any other factors. It was simply an objective response to the question posed. 

[Brooksie359]

1 hour ago, Godlygamer23 said:

My response didn't include any other factors. It was simply an objective response to the question posed. 

That's a fair point but I think many don't realize that this is just the chipset lanes and not the cpu lanes.

[Jito463]

9 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

People spend their hard earn money, and they deserve the best they can get.

What precisely do you think you're losing out on by having PCIe 2.0 on the chipset?  You seem to be on a bit of a rampage about this, so I'm curious why this has you so riled up.

[NumLock21]

27 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

What precisely do you think you're losing out on by having PCIe 2.0 on the chipset?  You seem to be on a bit of a rampage about this, so I'm curious why this has you so riled up.

Not being able to install additional PCIe devices that's has the ability to run at Gen 3. I have a X99 with 40 gen 3 lanes, so I don't really care about my chipset that only has 8 Gen 2 lanes. Those Intel cpus with 28 lanes, with SLI using up 16 lanes, there is still 12 left, which is plenty to go around for other Gen 3 devices. Intel Z170 to Z370 Gen 3 lanes, has a combined total of 36 to 40. AMD Threadripper has 60 Gen 3, so it won't matter if their chipset is still at Gen 2. AMD Ryzen on the other hand only has 24 gen 3. 20 are already used up by the video card and communication between cpu and chipset, this only leaves the user with just 4. Ryzen was released around early of this year. If Ryzen had more gen 3 lanes from their cpu, then it won't matter if their chipset is at Gen 2, but no they don't. Not enough Gen 3 lanes to go around and having to fallback to Gen 2 from the chipset, going into 2018 is kind of sad. At least they're going to use Gen 3 with their new 400 series chipset, so that's good. Can't wait for those boards to be released, so those who want AMD Ryzen, will be able to have a proper up to date build.

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

AMD Ryzen on the other hand only has 24 gen 3. 20 are already used up by the video card and communication between cpu and chipset, this only leaves the user with just 4.

Ryzen allocates 16 lanes to GPU. 2 for NVMe, and 4 for chipset.

 

Intel Z series chipsets, 170 up, has 16 direct to CPU lanes, and "20" chipset lanes that are ultimately just a DMI that's really a PCIe 3.0 x4 connection being split up to those 20 lanes.

 

With Ryzen, one can run Xfire/SLI, retain 2 direct to CPU connections, and manufacturers can PLX the hell out of the chipset lanes to make as many "PCIe 3.0" lanes that they want, just like Intel's consumer counterparts.

 

And asides for whatever additional controllers the mainboard manufacturer adds, those 20 chipset lanes on Intel's chipsets are not available for the end user.

10 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Not enough Gen 3 lanes to go around and having to fallback to Gen 2 from the chipset, going into 2018 is kind of sad.

Being quite frank, AMD's conversion of 4 PCIe 3.0 lanes into 8 PCIe 2.0 lanes is far better than Intel taking 4 PCIe 3.0 lanes and PLX switching the hell out of them into 20 lanes that see the same bandwidth limitation and will incur more latency as more of those "lanes" are used.

[NumLock21]

12 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Ryzen allocates 16 lanes to GPU. 2 for NVMe, and 4 for chipset.

Ryzen has 24, 16 for gpu, 4 for cpu to chipset, and 4 for NVMe

12 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Intel Z series chipsets, 170 up, has 16 direct to CPU lanes, and "20" chipset lanes that are ultimately just a DMI that's really a PCIe 3.0 x4 connection being split up to those 20 lanes. And asides for whatever additional controllers the mainboard manufacturer adds, those 20 chipset lanes on Intel's chipsets are not available for the end user.

CPU has 16, chipset has 20. DMI 3.0 does not use up any of the 20 lanes from the chipset. Devices controlled by the chipset gets their 20 lanes from the chipset.

 

12 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

With Ryzen, one can run Xfire/SLI, retain 2 direct to CPU connections, and manufacturers can PLX the hell out of the chipset lanes to make as many "PCIe 3.0" lanes that they want, just like Intel's consumer counterparts.

PLX add latency and increase cost. It's better to have more native lanes.

 

[Drak3]

Just now, NumLock21 said:

Ryzen has 24, 16 for gpu, 4 for cpu to chipset, and 4 for NVMe

13 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Board manufacturers can add 2 for NVMe by sacrificing 2 SATA III. Default is 16 for GPU, 2 general purpose, 4 chipset.

 

1 minute ago, NumLock21 said:

CPU has 16, chipset has 20. DMI 3.0 does not use up any of the 20 lanes from the chipset. Devices controlled by the chipset gets their 20 lanes from the chipset.

The Chipset's 20 lanes are just 4 PCIe 3.0 lanes being split up. No different from a PLX bridge, because the southbridge is essentially a PLX bridge.

 

2 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

It's better to have more native lanes.

Intel's chipset lanes aren't native. At least Ryzen's chipset lanes are 4 3.0 -> 8 2.0, maintaining the same bandwidth.

[NumLock21]

13 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Board manufacturers can add 2 for NVMe by sacrificing 2 SATA III. Default is 16 for GPU, 2 general purpose, 4 chipset.

 

16 for cpu, 4 for chipset, 2 for general purpose? Then where are the other 2 lanes? Also SATA don't use PCIe.

13 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

The Chipset's 20 lanes are just 4 PCIe 3.0 lanes being split up. No different from a PLX bridge, because the southbridge is essentially a PLX bridge.

PLX is additional hardware chipset that provides more lanes. You cannot call the Southbridge a PLX chip. Asrock Z270 SuperCarrier is a board with a Broadcom PLX chip. CPU provides 16, PLX provides another 48, this lets you run SLI /CFX in x16/x16 and up to 4-way SLI or CFX in x8/x8/x8/x8.

 

26 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Intel's chipset lanes aren't native. At least Ryzen's chipset lanes are 4 3.0 -> 8 2.0, maintaining the same bandwidth.

Native lanes as in without having to rely on a 3rd party chipset.

 

 

 

 

[Drak3]

Just now, NumLock21 said:

Then where are the other 2 lanes? Also SATA don't use PCIe.

By default, routed, in way of AMD chipset, to a SATA controller. Mainboard manufacturers can reclaim those lanes.

 

Which isn't surprising, seeing as how PCIe reliant EPYC is, seeing as Ryzen is just a single die counterpart.

 

1 minute ago, NumLock21 said:

PLX is additional hardware chipset that provides more lanes. You cannot call the Southbridge a PLX chip.

Identical functionality. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's certainly not great aunt Jamima.

 

2 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Native lanes as in without having to rely on a 3rd party chipset.

Native lanes are those coming directly from the northbridge, which is integrated on any desktop Intel chip with PCIe 3.0.

Intel's chipset lanes are equivalent to running a PLX bridge, because that is the exact setup Intel uses to get those 20 "PCIe 3.0" lanes.

[Jito463]

2 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

CPU has 16, chipset has 20. DMI 3.0 does not use up any of the 20 lanes from the chipset. Devices controlled by the chipset gets their 20 lanes from the chipset.

Those devices still need to communicate with the CPU, and the bandwidth between the CPU and the chipset is only x4 Gen3.

 

You still haven't told me what you're losing by having 8 PCIe 2.0 lanes instead of 4 PCIe 3.0 lanes.  What specifically is it that you think is lost?

[NumLock21]

11 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Those devices still need to communicate with the CPU, and the bandwidth between the CPU and the chipset is only x4 Gen3.

 

You still haven't told me what you're losing by having 8 PCIe 2.0 lanes instead of 4 PCIe 3.0 lanes.  What specifically is it that you think is lost?

Well Ryzen user are not able to have 2 NVMe SSD both running at Gen 3 x4.

[Drak3]

Just now, NumLock21 said:

Well Ryzen user are not able to have 2 NVMe SSD both running at Gen 3 x4.

Neither are users of Zx70 platforms. Two+ drives share a 3.0 x4 uplink. Only X99/299/399 and the server platforms is this not the case.

 

Unless one if to use a riser card, in which it's a moot point on either platform.