Venezuela is launching a cryptocurrency backed by oil, gas, gold and diamonds

[2FA]

7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Imagine a single world currency, totally traceable to the last cent?   No more ransoms, no more banks artificially controlling currency values, supply/demand being the driving force again.

Not sure if utopian or dystopian.

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, DeadEyePsycho said:

Not sure if utopian or dystopian.

 

1 minute ago, Kumaresh said:

After taking a good hard look at my surroundings, not in this lifetime.......

 

It used to be a single currency, when gold and silver was the trade.  Have you considered the world is fucked the way it is today because of the current financial system?

[2FA]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

 

It used to be a single currency, when gold and silver was the trade.  Have you considered the world is fucked the way it is today because of the current financial system?

That doesn't negate the fact that it would be one of the two I listed, at least in my lifetime. 

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, Kumaresh said:

I relaise the idealism and intent behind your statements. However, as a believer in the deep state and the endless potential for government tracking and abuse inherent in such a system, I would have to decline. While it would eliminate all the things you mentioned, attempting the transition would be monumentally impossible due to existing corruption and the inertia of the current political machinery of the world.

Fair fears, Government tracking goes both ways though,  the people would know who was being paid what and when as much as anyone.  Knowledge (actual, not assumed)
 is power.  In such a world one would hope corrupt governments would be given the arse.

 

 

Just now, DeadEyePsycho said:

That doesn't negate the fact that it would be one of the two I listed, at least in my lifetime. 

Why can't it be just the evolution of currency where the balance of power slowly returns to a central point?  Meaning away from bankers/corporations and back to a barter/supply driven economy?

[2FA]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Fair fears, Government tracking goes both ways though,  the people would know who was being paid what and when as much as anyone.  Knowledge (actual, not assumed)
 is power.  In such a world one would hope corrupt governments would be given the arse.

 

 

Why can't it be just the evolution of currency where the balance of power slowly returns to a central point?  Meaning away from bankers/corporations and back to a barter/supply driven economy?

I'm not disagreeing a single world currency would be better, I'm just saying it's something unlikely to happen anytime soon due to the recent nationalism trend cuz you know 'muh country is the greatest in the world.'

[The Benjamins]

29 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Imagine a single world currency, totally traceable to the last cent?   No more ransoms, no more banks artificially controlling currency values, supply/demand being the driving force again.

well BTC does all that.

[2FA]

Just now, The Benjamins said:

well BTC does all that.

Except working without electricity or internet access.

[mr moose]

Just now, The Benjamins said:

well BTC does all that.

I think we've had this discussion before.  The reason many ransomware operators use bitcoin is becasue once they send it through a mixing service it is untraceable.

 

http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-bitcoin-helped-fuel-an-explosion-in-ransomware-attacks/

[The Benjamins]

Just now, DeadEyePsycho said:

Except working without electricity or internet access.

was not one of his requirements, and the only way to have a traceable, globule  currency would for it digital.

 

And most currencies today are mostly digital and if their was no electricity or internet it would fall apart too.

 

BTC you can write offline transactions and submit them when you become online, you can even had write it on paper and give it to someone to submit later.

[The Benjamins]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

I think we've had this discussion before.  The reason many ransomware operators use bitcoin is becasue once they send it through a mixing service it is untraceable.

 

http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-bitcoin-helped-fuel-an-explosion-in-ransomware-attacks/

I don't think so, but it is traceable its just you don't know who "owns" the addresses. If I told you all my addresses you can see all my transactions. 

 

example:

https://blockchain.info/address/1P8Mfus9XKrNWJMv8HxccchZgtRxERk9m3

[mr moose]

9 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

I don't think so, but it is traceable its just you don't know who "owns" the addresses. If I told you all my addresses you can see all my transactions. 

 

example:

https://blockchain.info/address/1P8Mfus9XKrNWJMv8HxccchZgtRxERk9m3

 

You might want to read the article linked.

 

11 minutes ago, Kumaresh said:

So let's try and get this straight, these are the points under consideration :

1. All existing world governments would issue a financial recall of existing currency and note down who returns how much.
2. They then go on to issue some form of regulated cryptocurrency to everybody having equivalent value to whatever currency they had. That would eliminate the dynamics of currency exchange and government interference.
3. What happens to the assets of the government ? You do know that very little of the actual world economy exists in the form of physical currency right ? So that would be a huge problem if not managed properly.
4. There would have to be some global level international registry which should note down EACH and EVERY transaction in the world. The new currency is the only valid method of financial transaction and there should be some methods of cross checking to prevent some sort of financial fraud. However, such implementations are prone to snooping, especially if a consortium of governments decided how they're gonna be regulated. And a publicly accessible registry would completely destroy any form of personal privacy, so we would have to hand over such responsibilities to "Big Brother", who claims to be responsible.

These are the main points under consideration that I can come up with under such short notice. Will elaborate on them tomorrow.

 

It doesn't have to be an overnight change, or even fast.  Many currencies coexist.  Many currencies change too.   I'm just suggesting it would be nice if the next major change was not to many different digital currencies but to one single world currency.  

[ravenshrike]

5 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

now the thing is is the president sincere with his intentions

 

No, no he is not.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, ravenshrike said:

 

No, no he is not.

He just wants to build a digital currency wall and make Venezuela great again.

[The Benjamins]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

You might want to read the article linked.

ok but you can't have a world currency and have it governed.

 

we either need a world government and have it regulate BTC or not a have a world wide currency.

 

But BTC can be regulated better with laws around exchanges and taxing. and if exchanges work with governments they can help track BTC that is attempted to be laundered through them.

[mr moose]

6 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

ok but you can't have a world currency and have it governed.

 

we either need a world government and have it regulate BTC or not a have a world wide currency.

 

But BTC can be regulated better with laws around exchanges and taxing. and if exchanges work with governments they can help track BTC that is attempted to be laundered through them.

 

I don't like the idea of a one world government with our current leaders in charge. As an Ideal it would be awesome, but we'd have to change an awful lot first.

[AresKrieger]

59 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It used to be a single currency, when gold and silver was the trade.  Have you considered the world is fucked the way it is today because of the current financial system?

A least it isn't as fucked up as Venezuela's finances

 

Hope Maduro kicks the bucket soon the country really needs him to die before they can have a chance to move forward

[mr moose]

12 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

A least it isn't as fucked up as Venezuela's finances

 

Hope Maduro kicks the bucket soon the country really needs him to die before they can have a chance to move forward

To be honest I know very little about Venezuela.   But it isn't hard to imagine that somewhere along the line there are terrible issues that aren't easily solved.

[captain_to_fire]

8 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

A cryptocurrency centralised and production control and managed by a government...

So basically a new normal currency without the paper for unlimited printing

And probably, an increase of cryptocurrency in circulation without a proportionate increase of goods and services will cause devaluation also known as inflation. 

[suicidalfranco]

3 hours ago, hey_yo_ said:

And probably, an increase of cryptocurrency in circulation without a proportionate increase of goods and services will cause devaluation also known as inflation. 

story of every currency left in the hand of a government

[captain_to_fire]

1 hour ago, suicidalfranco said:

story of every currency left in the hand of a government

It seems to me the Venezuelan president has no idea what crypto currency is. 

[Taf the Ghost]

This is a stunt to fleece money from foolish investors. Venezuela can't pay cash for anything right now, so they'd be back it with IOUs anyway.

[captain_to_fire]

13 hours ago, mr moose said:

I think we've had this discussion before.  The reason many ransomware operators use bitcoin is becasue once they send it through a mixing service it is untraceable.

 

http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-bitcoin-helped-fuel-an-explosion-in-ransomware-attacks/

That's why UK and the EU want to regulate cryptocurrencies to deter money laundering

14 hours ago, Kumaresh said:

Venezuela is basically a failing nation state. Unable to manage basic resources, how are they going to start up and manage this cryptocurrency ? How are they going to regulate it and will people even have faith in it, given that it's value is gone if anything happens to the government ?

Their current president imposes authoritarian left policies which is definitely screwing with their economy. There's no cryptocurrency backed by gold or fossil fuels (kinda like the gold standard) will shore up its economy.

 

14 hours ago, mr moose said:

Why can't it be just the evolution of currency where the balance of power slowly returns to a central point?  Meaning away from bankers/corporations and back to a barter/supply driven economy?

It doesn't matter who controls the currency or not. Whether it's physical currency or cryptocurrency, it will have the same problems. I could be wrong but people will still experience inflation, boom and bust cycles, recessions, etc. But to control the amount of cryptocurrency in circulation is another question. With money created by fractional reserve banking, banks expand or contract the money supply by manipulating interest rates. With decentralized cryptocurrency, who is in charge of reserve requirements in deposits or interest rates?

[AlTech]

16 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

A cryptocurrency centralised and production control and managed by a government...

So basically a new normal currency without the paper for unlimited printing

Sounds like it.

 

But at that point, they might as well not launch the cryptocurrency.

[mr moose]

8 hours ago, hey_yo_ said:

It doesn't matter who controls the currency or not. Whether it's physical currency or cryptocurrency, it will have the same problems. I could be wrong but people will still experience inflation, boom and bust cycles, recessions, etc. But to control the amount of cryptocurrency in circulation is another question. With money created by fractional reserve banking, banks expand or contract the money supply by manipulating interest rates. With decentralized cryptocurrency, who is in charge of reserve requirements in deposits or interest rates?

yer, that's not quite what I was getting at. 

[SpaceGhostC2C]

On 12/4/2017 at 3:41 PM, hey_yo_ said:

 

Is there anyone in the forum who is an economist or is currently taking macroeconomics even just a semester? Because this one from Venezuela looks a lot like the "gold standard". Prior to the fiat based greenback, the US actually used the gold standard.

There are several things to understand here:

 

1. What does it mean "backed by..." in this context? It doesn't really say, and this is Nicolás maduro talking, a person who speaks to Chávez spirit who appears to him in the form of a bird... Chavist governments have a tradition of making loud-sounding announcements with little actual content, like when Chávez himself proposed a localized currency system, with currencies losing value as you move further away from a province... Basically, until clearly explained (and actually implemented), this "convertibility" is cheap talk.
2. All currencies are fiat. There  is no "non-fiat" currency really, although the distinction is made between gold standard era and other currencies. But, ultimately, gold itself was a fiat currency: its usefulness for transactions isn't really linked to its raw material value, but to its general acceptance as a means of exchange. General acceptance is ultimately the only source of currency value for any currency that ever existed.
3. Taking (2) into account, the gold standard (or abandoning it) isn't really about why the dollar and other currencies were and still are accepted for transactions (which remained unaltered). Instead, the gold standard was a constraint to monetary policy, the same way a fixed exchange rate is (to many countries, remaining in the gold standard was exactly a fixed exchange rate policy, since only the dollar had any gold convertibility in the post-war world). Thus, keeping or getting rid of the gold standard wasn't a decision about the currency itself, but about the way to conduct monetary policy.
4. It is often misleading to speak of "Cryptocurrencies", as it prompts comparisons with currencies, despite being extremely different animals. Bitcoin isn't an alternative to the dollar any more than a time-travelling DeLorean is an alternative to a bycicle: both can be use for the same function in the right context, but for the most part they serve different purposes. A great read on the topic can be found in this link.

TL;DR: "legal tender cryptocurrency" is akin to "quantum psychology", and Maduro is a known snake-oil seller.