I Knew It. Intel Doesn't Want To Support Kaby Lake On Z370

[mr moose]

13 minutes ago, chugs said:

 

 

What is your problem? What are you so invested in that is making you so protective of Intel's poor decision? Why aren't you supporting customers who want to run a Coffee Lake CPU on a Z270 motherboard?  

 

The fact that you hate people whinning about it is not a justification for shitting on people who are upset about it. Don't read these forums if it doesn't fricken affect you. I don't like NFL but you don't see me arguing in NFL forums about players who are kneeling in games and stuff. 

 

The fact you've chosen to ignore my point about the 1150 makes it clear that you're the one that is being facetious. Intel had multiple generation's of CPU's running on older chipsets. If this wasn't the case then you could have perhaps a small argument about my expectation about doing so with Coffee Lake. But that's not the case is it. 

 

There is no justifiable argument to defend Intel's anti-consumer decision to dump Z270 support on Coffee Lake CPU's. The fact you're now getting into semantics shows that your dipping to bottom of the barrel. 

 

Arguing simply because you can't admit that your wrong. 

 

I brought a CPU and motherboard that I expected would be able to upgrade sometime in the future i.e. 2019-2020. I wanted the option as was the the case with my 1150 socket motherboard to use a Broadwell CPU on it. I don't think its unreasonable, unfair or wrong to expect Intel to allow Coffee Lake to run on a 1151 Z270 motherboard. 

edit: (added in after I re-read your comment and noticed this pile of crap) 

 

Where did I ever say that I was going to dump my i7-7700k after one year??? You seem to make things up as you go along to justify your inane and vexatious arguments. I love how, to win the argument you make me out to be some rich snotty asshole who can spend hundreds/thousands on computers every year. 

 

I want to upgrade my CPU on my Z270 motherboard sometime in the future. I don't know exactly but if its anything like my Haswell system probably in 2020. I would love to buy an old Coffee Lake CPU and put it into the system to give it a bit more grunt. 

 

 

huh? Wound up? Are we talking about a football team losing the big championship final's? No we're talking about a substantial investment into a product that has been dropped by a vendor when it's clear that technically speaking the vendors next CPU can run on the older hardware. 

 

We're not splitting hairs on something that costs a few bucks. 

 

And NO ONE is saying that they are dumping their i7-7700k in 2017 because we want a Coffee Lake CPU. 

 

But you know what. It doesn't matter even if they did want to do that. It doesn't make what Intel has done any less anti-consumer. 

 

 

I think someone got out of the wrong side of the bed.

 

1. Pretty sure you don't know the meaning of the word facetious if you think I am.

2. If you think I am wrong please be more specific as to what I said that was wrong.

3. you either got bad advice or made a rookie mistake.  you made the assumption CL would be compatible, wear it.

3. so in 2020 you want to buy a 2 year old CPU that performs only marginally better than your current  7700K and you consider that an "upgrade path"? I never insinuated you were rich or snotty, I simply was pointing out that that upgrade is a really poor performance/$ choice.  The year later comment comes from the fact that Intel generally only supports each platform for no more than 2 years.  As you keep saying you intended to upgrade the CPU to a CL then you would be buying at the end of next year at the latest. That's not an illogical conclusion from your posting

 

4. you keep complaining about it costing so much, yet you bought the top end betting on an unknown, you can't blame any company for that, that was your error of judgment.

 

BTW, do you know what anti consumer behavior looks like?   This certainly isn't anti consumer.  You weren't forced to buy it as there are adequate alternatives (in fact many argue ryzen is a superior alternative right now),  there was no misleading advertising or broken promises, Your product works exactly as promised and has not been gimped or had it's performance reduced by the manufacturer in any way after the sale.  Anti consumer is what Intel did to AMD with the whole OEM rebate debacle,  anti consumer is what Intel did with the compiler fiasco.  Changing what chipsets so far unreleased CPU's work with is not anti-consumer. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hybris5112]

22 hours ago, chugs said:

huh? Wound up? Are we talking about a football team losing the big championship final's? No we're talking about a substantial investment into a product that has been dropped by a vendor when it's clear that technically speaking the vendors next CPU can run on the older hardware. 

 

We're not splitting hairs on something that costs a few bucks. 

 

And NO ONE is saying that they are dumping their i7-7700k in 2017 because we want a Coffee Lake CPU. 

 

But you know what. It doesn't matter even if they did want to do that. It doesn't make what Intel has done any less anti-consumer.

 

Yet people are talking about dumping their 6000 series chips or upgrading their 1600x to 17 or 1800x.

Its not anti-consumer when the consumer is dumb enough chase the proverbial carrot or fail to put the least amount of planning into their system which is as you said a major investment.

 

This makes people who buy "good enough" low end parts and plan to upgrade in 2 or 3 years the biggest idiots and both Intel and AMD are both happy to take their money. The media and marketing as done a bang up job of pushing this type of thinking as well again pushing for that 2-3 year upgrade cycle keeping those PC parts sales going.

 

If you really want to label Intel as anti-consumer then you had best tack on the rest of the industry as well because they all have a hand in it.

 

Or we can just accept that they are all businesses taking advantage of a economic opportunity in a consumer base that refuses to plan for tomorrow and accept the higher initial up front cost of investing in a machine that can handily perform most tasks in 5-7+ years without further investment.

[chugs]

On 9/29/2017 at 1:47 PM, mr moose said:

I think someone got out of the wrong side of the bed.

 

1. Pretty sure you don't know the meaning of the word facetious if you think I am.

2. If you think I am wrong please be more specific as to what I said that was wrong.

I've said everything i need to. Your the one that makes up crap to justify your banal and vexatious arguments.

 

You've not proven whatsoever how in April 2017 that it was public knowledge that Z270 was being dumped. You've not given me any indication of what alternatives outside of Z270.

 

On 9/30/2017 at 12:26 PM, Hybris5112 said:

 

Yet people are talking about dumping their 6000 series chips or upgrading their 1600x to 17 or 1800x.

Its not anti-consumer when the consumer is dumb enough chase the proverbial carrot or fail to put the least amount of planning into their system which is as you said a major investment.

Now your being inflammatory and rude. So i'm a dumb consumer for not planning?? Like I said to the last guy what other option was there in early 2017? Buy a socket 2011 CPU? No way, performance my i7-7700k beats the 2011 CPU's in the application I use. Wait for socket 2066? I think Linus has done enough to explain how stupid the i9 2066 socket CPU's are.

 

The only option was the recently launched I7-7700k and Z270 which for all intensive purposely, if you look Haswell and Broadwell, was going to be compatible with the next CPU to launch on the 1151 socket. 

 

At least there was nothing that I read or saw (and i read far and wide) that said that Z270 was going to be dumped and that Kaby Lake was the one and only CPU capable of running on it.

[mr moose]

On 10/1/2017 at 4:57 PM, chugs said:

I've said everything i need to. Your the one that makes up crap to justify your banal and vexatious arguments.

 

You've not proven whatsoever how in April 2017 that it was public knowledge that Z270 was being dumped. You've not given me any indication of what alternatives outside of Z270.

 

1. You still haven't told me what I said that is made up, let alone how they are "banal" or "Vexatious".

2. There is nothing to prove, I never said anything was public knowledge, I said no one knew what was coming so banking on there actually being an alternative (or support or anything for that matter) back then was your choice, it was a gamble not an informed decision.

 

So again, please quote what I said that was wrong.  Show me exactly which claim I make in a "vexatious" argument that is factually wrong.

 

 

[chugs]

3 hours ago, mr moose said:

1. You still haven't told me what I said that is made up, let alone how they are "banal" or "Vexatious".

2. There is nothing to prove, I never said anything was public knowledge, I said no one knew what was coming so banking on there actually being an alternative (or support or anything for that matter) back then was your choice, it was a gamble not an informed decision.

 

So again, please quote what I said that was wrong.  Show me exactly which claim I make in a "vexatious" argument that is factually wrong.

 

 

lol - linus says it far better then you do - 

 

[mr moose]

20 minutes ago, chugs said:

lol - linus says it far better then you do - 

 

 

What is your problem? What are you so invested in that is making you so protective of Intel's poor decision? Why aren't you supporting customers who want to run a Coffee Lake CPU on a Z270 motherboard?  

 

The fact that you hate people whinning about it is not a justification for shitting on people who are upset about it. Don't read these forums if it doesn't fricken affect you. I don't like NFL but you don't see me arguing in NFL forums about players who are kneeling in games and stuff. 

 

The fact you've chosen to ignore my point about the 1150 makes it clear that you're the one that is being facetious. Intel had multiple generation's of CPU's running on older chipsets. If this wasn't the case then you could have perhaps a small argument about my expectation about doing so with Coffee Lake. But that's not the case is it. 

 

There is no justifiable argument to defend Intel's anti-consumer decision to dump Z270 support on Coffee Lake CPU's. The fact you're now getting into semantics shows that your dipping to bottom of the barrel. 

 

Arguing simply because you can't admit that your wrong. 

 

I brought a CPU and motherboard that I expected would be able to upgrade sometime in the future i.e. 2019-2020. I wanted the option as was the the case with my 1150 socket motherboard to use a Broadwell CPU on it. I don't think its unreasonable, unfair or wrong to expect Intel to allow Coffee Lake to run on a 1151 Z270 motherboard. 

 

 

huh? Wound up? Are we talking about a football team losing the big championship final's? No we're talking about a substantial investment into a product that has been dropped by a vendor when it's clear that technically speaking the vendors next CPU can run on the older hardware. 

 

We're not splitting hairs on something that costs a few bucks. 

 

And NO ONE is saying that they are dumping their i7-7700k in 2017 because we want a Coffee Lake CPU. 

 

But you know what. It doesn't matter even if they did want to do that. It doesn't make what Intel has done any less anti-consumer. 

 

you're just trolling now.   Against CS.

 

Not only have you already said all that, but you still haven't shown me where I am supposedly wrong.  

[chugs]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

you're just trolling now.   Against CS.

edit: 

 

oops i didn't mean to repost my previous post - and i'll remove it but you know what its a good post. You stil haven't answered any of my questions about when i was meant to know that the Z270 wouldn't support Coffee Lake. 

 

And also Linus is wrong. I can run Haswell and Broadwell on the same motherboard so he, and you wrong to argue that Intel has never offered the ability to use a second generation CPU on an older motherboard. 

 

And sorry can you explain - error aside - what you mean by trolling, and who is CS? 

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, chugs said:

edit: 

 

oops i didn't mean to repost my previous post - and i'll remove it but you know what its a good post. You stil haven't answered any of my questions about when i was meant to know that the Z270 wouldn't support Coffee Lake. 

 

And also Linus is wrong. I can run Haswell and Broadwell on the same motherboard so he, and you wrong to argue that Intel has never offered the ability to use a second generation CPU on an older motherboard. 

 

And sorry can you explain - error aside - what you mean by trolling, and who is CS? 

 

CS = Community standards

 

EDIT: which is kind of Ironic because accusing you of trolling also goes against the CS.

 

But basically the repeat insinuations that I am unfairly "defending" Intel is considered trolling. Saying it once is an opinion, discussion regarding it is also fine,  but repeat accusations without qualifications are not.

 

[LinusTech]

20 minutes ago, chugs said:

edit: 

 

oops i didn't mean to repost my previous post - and i'll remove it but you know what its a good post. You stil haven't answered any of my questions about when i was meant to know that the Z270 wouldn't support Coffee Lake. 

 

And also Linus is wrong. I can run Haswell and Broadwell on the same motherboard so he, and you wrong to argue that Intel has never offered the ability to use a second generation CPU on an older motherboard. 

 

And sorry can you explain - error aside - what you mean by trolling, and who is CS? 

I never said they don't allow a second generation. I said they haven't done a THIRD in 10 years on consumer anyway (or anything else that I'm aware of but I don't follow everything Intel does).

 

Two generations of chips has been par for the course for some time. 

[chugs]

 

12 minutes ago, mr moose said:

But basically the repeat insinuations that I am unfairly "defending" Intel is considered trolling. Saying it once is an opinion, discussion regarding it is also fine,  but repeat accusations without qualifications are not.

Ok lets summarise:

 

1. You said that i got bad advice/information that Intel would not enable Z270 support on Coffee Lake. The implication that you got good information but you couldn't explain where or how you knew this.

2. You then claimed that Intel had never supported a second generation CPU with a previous chipset. I pointed out this was wrong.  

3. You claimed that i could have gotten other hardware but when i pointed out that 2011 and 2066 socket CPU's were either dead ends or worse then Kaby Lake/Coffee Lake you still couldn't explain what alternatives there were and more importantly how I was meant to know to klnow that Z270 was a deadend.  

 

I pointed out contradictions to all of your points and explained the onus was on you to prove your arguments to which you then tried to turn that around and say it was on me to prove your arguments. Lol what!? 

 

So that's banal Its really unimaginative way of debating.

 

And vexatious? Your arguments are utterly unsubstantiated. You've proven nothing and yet here we are several pages your still going. That is being vexatious. 

 

I'm not mad, i'm not trolling and i apologise for the error on my previous post (seeing that I don't have a history/pattern of this you can hardly argue it)

 

So I standby my comments. You could have easily let the matter drop. Like I asked before what do you have invested in this debate that makes you so gun-ho to defend the position of a multi-national mega corporation that could have easily enabled Z270 to work with Coffee Lake, you couldn't even answer that. 

 

Sure you said that your argument is pretty much the fact you you don't like whingers. I find that really rude and insulting. If i didn't invest a large amount of money into this hardware I could accept that i am just whinging but seeing that's not the case I think your the one that is breaking community standards. 

I am just defending myself against unfair, unsubstantiated and rude claims. 

[chugs]

3 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

I never said they don't allow a second generation. I said they haven't done a THIRD in 10 years on consumer anyway (or anything else that I'm aware of but I don't follow everything Intel does).

 

Two generations of chips has been par for the course for some time. 

 

Well that's a fair point. 

 

But then again if I had brought a Z170 motherboard and was whinging that Coffee Lake wasn't supported then Mr Moose would be well within his right to say that I was being a whinger. 

[mr moose]

Just now, chugs said:

 

Ok lets summarise:

 

1. You said that i got bad advice/information that Intel would not enable Z270 support on Coffee Lake. The implication that you got good information but you couldn't explain where or how you knew this.

2. You then claimed that Intel had never supported a second generation CPU with a previous chipset. I pointed out this was wrong.  

3. You claimed that i could have gotten other hardware but when i pointed out that 2011 and 2066 socket CPU's were either dead ends or worse then Kaby Lake/Coffee Lake you still couldn't explain what alternatives there were and more importantly how I was meant to know to klnow that Z270 was a deadend.  

 

I pointed out contradictions to all of your points and explained the onus was on you to prove your arguments to which you then tried to turn that around and say it was on me to prove your arguments. Lol what!? 

 

So that's banal Its really unimaginative way of debating.

 

And vexatious? Your arguments are utterly unsubstantiated. You've proven nothing and yet here we are several pages your still going. That is being vexatious. 

 

I'm not mad, i'm not trolling and i apologise for the error on my previous post (seeing that I don't have a history/pattern of this you can hardly argue it)

 

So I standby my comments. You could have easily let the matter drop. Like I asked before what do you have invested in this debate that makes you so gun-ho to defend the position of a multi-national mega corporation that could have easily enabled Z270 to work with Coffee Lake, you couldn't even answer that. 

 

Sure you said that your argument is pretty much the fact you you don't like whingers. I find that really rude and insulting. If i didn't invest a large amount of money into this hardware I could accept that i am just whinging but seeing that's not the case I think your the one that is breaking community standards. 

I am just defending myself against unfair, unsubstantiated and rude claims. 

1. there was no implication I had different information.  I actually said no one knew.  The insinuation was that you shouldn't have made a purchase based on lack of information (or assumptions), not that there was contrary information.

 

2. NO, my claim was that Intel had never guaranteed support and that historically you don't get more than 2 years from any one platform, thus making CPU only upgrades a poor choice.

 

3. I was not saying you should have gotten something different, just that you shouldn't have banked on any of it being able to run next gen CPU's.  (this applies to AMD as much as it does to Intel).

 

I think the rest of your post is just you trying to rationalize against my points.  Because you even admitted that the issue was the assumptions you have made, not bad advice or false advertising.

 

 

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, chugs said:

 

Well that's a fair point. 

 

But then again if I had brought a Z170 motherboard and was whinging that Coffee Lake wasn't supported then Mr Moose would be well within his right to say that I was being a whinger. 

His video also backs up exactly what I have been saying, 

 

quote from the video (2:34):

 

Quote

Anyone who was expecting a 200 series board to get a CPU upgrade, hasn't been following Intel's pattern over the last 10 years.

 

@LinusTech yes it is worth making a video about.  Given this thread, it would appear even those who are active enthusiasts can end up in the poo, especially given how much confusion there is with all the rumors and misinformation that spreads before each release.

[LinusTech]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

His video also backs up exactly what I have been saying, 

 

quote from the video (2:34):

 

 

@LinusTech yes it is worth making a video about.  Given this thread, it would appear even those who are active enthusiasts can end up in the poo, especially given how much confusion there is with all the rumors and misinformation that spreads before each release.

Thinking about it. Seems like we could come up with a few handy tips to make it worthwhile..

 

Like "don't buy a bloody iPhone in August"

[TrigrH]

1 minute ago, LinusTech said:

Thinking about it. Seems like we could come up with a few handy tips to make it worthwhile..

 

Like "don't buy a bloody iPhone in August"

fixed

[LinusTech]

Just now, TrigrH said:

fixed

The iPhone is awesome these days, man. Don't be closed-minded.

 

As long as you're not buying like.. Windows Phone or something you're going to have a pretty great mobile experience.

[STRMfrmXMN]

Just now, TrigrH said:

fixed

r00d

 

- Sent from my iPhone

[TrigrH]

Just now, LinusTech said:

The iPhone is awesome these days, man. Don't be closed-minded.

 

As long as you're not buying like.. Windows Phone or something you're going to have a pretty great mobile experience.

ill stick to my shiny new Xperia XZ1 Compact tyvm  

[Foxxer]

This is bois, what I call unfair business practices.

And yes, it is illegal in some countries just my 2 dirhams.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, Foxxer said:

This is bois, what I call unfair business practices.

And yes, it is illegal in some countries just my 2 dirhams.

Which countries and how.  Citation required on that.  Because unless Intel advertised in any way shape or form that they were compatible (either way), then they have done nothing illegal.  I have yet to see any material from Intel that claimed they would be compatible.

[Foxxer]

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Which countries and how.  Citation required on that.  Because unless Intel advertised in any way shape or form that they were compatible (either way), then they have done nothing illegal.  I have yet to see any material from Intel that claimed they would be compatible.

This is just one case against Intel !

Many more aggressive commercial practices NOT only on us, but on the market.

 

You see, competition and diversification is always good to consumers. 

But do Intel care about me, you, linus? Take a wild guess bradar.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Foxxer said:

This is just one case against Intel !

Many more aggressive commercial practices NOT only on us, but on the market.

 

You see, competition and diversification is always good to consumers. 

But do Intel care about me, you, linus? Take a wild guess bradar.

So this isn't illegal then.   There's no denying Intel have done illegal things in the past (and been caught), but this thread is not about those.

[Foxxer]

Just now, mr moose said:

So this isn't illegal then.   There's no denying Intel have done illegal things in the past (and been caught), but this thread is not about those.

You could always go around the law, I'm pretty sure.

Governments and Intel are best friends.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Foxxer said:

You could always go around the law, I'm pretty sure.

Governments and Intel are best friends.

Maybe they are "best friends", but I'm not sure what that has to do with this specific thread or going around the law, seeing as they haven't broken any laws.

[Foxxer]

30 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Maybe they are "best friends", but I'm not sure what that has to do with this specific thread or going around the law, seeing as they haven't broken any laws.

So what do you call this? What Intel is doing right now?

Throwing out boards and chips with no backward compatibility? 

 

Edit; 

 

Unfair business practices;

Fraud

Misrepresentation

Oppressive

Abusive

Monopolistic

Unconscionable acts or practices by business, often against consumers.

 

So Intel knew about AMD Ryzen coming, but didn't know that socket for Kabylake and Skylake couldn't support extra cores. Fine.

What about Kabylake and Coffeelake? 

 

Consumers are not stupid.