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Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5 - The Return of Sound Cards!?

YoloSwag
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5 hours ago, mr moose said:

No one really can, and this has been proven. 

 

EDIT: dithering is done on nearly all recordings to reduce noise audibility, but this is mostly because no one can agree if it actually works or not and it has not other consequences to the audio signal.  After 16bits it doesn't matter how good you're gear is or how the recording is mixed/mastered, you won't hear a difference.

https://www.sonicscoop.com/2013/08/29/why-almost-everything-you-thought-you-knew-about-bit-depth-is-probably-wrong/3/

EDIT: I made a reply to your comment previously but can't seem to find it. Don't know if it went in or not. If a notification shows up twice, I'll just be inputting the same thing I said below.

 

I think a big reason why it is still in dispute is that only a tiny fraction of the population could tell the difference when the researches themselves can't. Majority can't even tell the difference between 320KBPS MP3s and Lossless audio.

 

Not here to start any flame wars. The best advice ever regarding sound is always - If you can't tell the difference, don't spend any more money.

We see people spend $1000 on audio systems, while others are fine with $150 best buys, it doesn't matter as long as both are enjoying and using their own money :)

You can bark like a dog, but that won't make you a dog.

You can act like someone you're not, but that won't change who you are.

 

Finished Crysis without a discrete GPU,15 FPS average, and a lot of heart

 

How I plan my builds -

Spoiler

For me I start with the "There's no way I'm not gonna spend $1,000 on a system."

Followed by the "Wow I need to buy the OS for a $100!?"

Then "Let's start with the 'best budget GPU' and 'best budget CPU' that actually fits what I think is my budget."

Realizing my budget is a lot less, I work my way to "I think these new games will run on a cheap ass CPU."

Then end with "The new parts launching next year is probably gonna be better and faster for the same price so I'll just buy next year."

 

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2 hours ago, YoloSwag said:

EDIT: I made a reply to your comment previously but can't seem to find it. Don't know if it went in or not. If a notification shows up twice, I'll just be inputting the same thing I said below.

 

I think a big reason why it is still in dispute is that only a tiny fraction of the population could tell the difference when the researches themselves can't. Majority can't even tell the difference between 320KBPS MP3s and Lossless audio.

 

Not here to start any flame wars. The best advice ever regarding sound is always - If you can't tell the difference, don't spend any more money.

We see people spend $1000 on audio systems, while others are fine with $150 best buys, it doesn't matter as long as both are enjoying and using their own money :)

 

been in audio for quite a while now.  Nothing is better than experience for putting together a cd, but nothing also is better than mind steer (placebo) for making it hard for people to properly understand what they can and can't hear, and that includes so called master engineers. You just have to watch more than one documentary on the engineering to see that no two producers/engineers are the same and they are often conflicting in their explanations/understanding.  

 

Personally I refer to Ethan Winner when someone wants the dirt on audio reality.

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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2 hours ago, mr moose said:

Personally I refer to Ethan Winner when someone wants the dirt on audio reality.

Siegfried Linkwitz is also a very smart guy when it comes to audio.

 

Quote

Siegfried Linkwitz (born 1935) is well known as the co-inventor of the Linkwitz–Riley filter[1] along with Russ Riley. He has submitted several important technical papers to the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society and other related publications, which have become foundational to modern loudspeaker theory.[2] Examples of his recent work include extensive development of dipolar loudspeaker theory.[3] Also a contributor to electronics and "DIY" loudspeaker enthusiast magazines such as Electronics (Wireless) World, and Speaker Builder magazines.[4] [5]

 

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

but nothing also is better than mind steer (placebo) for making it hard for people to properly understand what they can and can't hear, and that includes so called master engineers.

The audiophile world is the real birth place of snake oil lol.

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8 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

Assumptions aside, trying to compare the sound quality in a night club to any half decent headphone and onboard audio solution is like trying to compare a jack hammer to a dremel for fine work.

We were talking about the difference between 16/48 & 24/48, not the difference between speakers and/or headphones.

 

I merely said that at in a nightclub it's much easier to tell the difference between the two than it is at home.

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1 minute ago, Master Disaster said:

We were talking about the difference between 16/48 & 24/48, not the difference between speakers and/or headphones.

 

I merely said that at in a nightclub it's much easier to tell the difference between the two than it is at home.

 

Very wrong.

If you could tell the difference,  you'd have a better chance at home with cheap headphones than at a night club.  

 

As someone who has lots of experience  consulting and installing venue P.A along with doing live sound and recording, I can assure you that the louder you go in venues like night clubs pubs etc, with music being pumped out of those god awful ABS enclosed, class H amp driven reinforcement speakers, the lower the sound resolution.  That's  not even mentioning the sheer SPL reached and size of the room with all the people.  

 

39 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Siegfried Linkwitz is also a very smart guy when it comes to audio.

 

 

The audiophile world is the real birth place of snake oil lol.

 

I have built many crossovers using the linkwitz-riley circuit. 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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1 hour ago, mr moose said:

 

Very wrong.

If you could tell the difference,  you'd have a better chance at home with cheap headphones than at a night club.  

 

As someone who has lots of experience  consulting and installing venue P.A along with doing live sound and recording, I can assure you that the louder you go in venues like night clubs pubs etc, with music being pumped out of those god awful ABS enclosed, class H amp driven reinforcement speakers, the lower the sound resolution.  That's  not even mentioning the sheer SPL reached and size of the room with all the people.  

 

 

I have built many crossovers using the linkwitz-riley circuit. 

Well maybe its just me but I find the opposite is true, if I go out clubbing and the venue has poor quality audio I can tell immediately where as when you go to a venue that has better equipment I can hear every tiny little detail in the audio. I will be honest though, I have never been in a home setting that has really good quality audio equipment so I don't really have anything to compare it too, the best I have ever heard is a friend who has a decent Marantz Amp and a couple of JBL Studio Monitors but then thrown in he also has a mix of other speakers too and it sounds good.

 

That said I am a bit of a strange one when it comes to my hearing, I am 37 and I can still hear them mosquito alarms designed to scare away teenagers (the ones that are supposed to be silent to adults) and I can even hear dog whistles too. My hearing range seems to be beyond what is normal for most people (which is very ironic considering I am below the threshold to be classed as legally blind unless I am wearing contact lenses) and I keep saying I am going to go and get a hearing test but I never do.

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1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

JBL Studio Monitors but then thrown in he also has a mix of other speakers too and it sounds good.

Ah yes what's known to many in the industry as 'Junk But Loud' :). Not that JBL don't make good products but they also make a lot of cheap stuff that sells in very high volume which you basically trip over everywhere you go when there is PA gear.

 

Some of the best sounding PA gear I've heard is from L-Acoustics, but the stuff I've listened to wouldn't go in a night club as it would either be physically to big to fit or not enough power to drive it without tripping every circuit breaker or would blow everyone's ear drums out in a room that small.

 

I've had the privilege of also knowing rather well an owner and operator of a Hi-Fi and installation shop so have been able to listen to most things featured in magazines and online and been allowed to take some of it home to try out. When you get to listen to that different class of equipment you can really tell, but as you might expect products within the same class are all very much the same no matter the price.

 

Watching a move with a $40k Runco projector, B&W 800D fronts + 802D rears/surrounds, Classe and Plinius SA-250 pre-amps and pamps is a very nice experience but personally I still prefer the tonal sound/characteristics of my Martin Logan Aeon i electrostatics.

 

You have to be extremely careful when talking to sales people in audio shops, whether intentional or not they can make you hear things that are not there just from what they say to you which heavily influences the way your brain is processing the sound. If you are told something has a little bit more bass 99.99% of the time you'll hear it/feel it when in fact it could actually be less than the last product sampled.

 

Edit:

Some times it's not a human ear problem but a human brain problem.

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11 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Ah yes what's known to many in the industry as 'Junk But Loud' :). Not that JBL don't make good products but they also make a lot of cheap stuff that sells in very high volume which you basically trip over everywhere you go when there is PA gear.

 

Some of the best sounding PA gear I've heard is from L-Acoustics, but the stuff I've listened to wouldn't go in a night club as it would either be physically to big to fit or not enough power to drive it without tripping every circuit breaker or would blow everyone's ear drums out in a room that small.

 

 

 

You have to be extremely careful when talking to sales people in audio shops, whether intentional or not they can make you hear things that are not there just from what they say to you which heavily influences the way your brain is processing the sound. If you are told something has a little bit more bass 99.99% of the time you'll hear it/feel it when in fact it could actually be less than the last product sampled.

 

Edit:

Some times it's not a human ear problem but a human brain problem.

Mind steer, it is a well researched phenomenon.   It goes under other names too, when im on my pc later I'll link the articles if anyone is interesred.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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8 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

been in audio for quite a while now.  Nothing is better than experience for putting together a cd, but nothing also is better than mind steer (placebo) for making it hard for people to properly understand what they can and can't hear, and that includes so called master engineers. You just have to watch more than one documentary on the engineering to see that no two producers/engineers are the same and they are often conflicting in their explanations/understanding.  

 

Personally I refer to Ethan Winner when someone wants the dirt on audio reality.

 

 

Again, the origin of dispute is subjective. It's like telling people the difference between shades of blue when they are colorblind to blue.

 

I'm not doubting that there are cases of placebo to some individuals, but real differences exist. Sadly not enough study on the matter there are.

You can bark like a dog, but that won't make you a dog.

You can act like someone you're not, but that won't change who you are.

 

Finished Crysis without a discrete GPU,15 FPS average, and a lot of heart

 

How I plan my builds -

Spoiler

For me I start with the "There's no way I'm not gonna spend $1,000 on a system."

Followed by the "Wow I need to buy the OS for a $100!?"

Then "Let's start with the 'best budget GPU' and 'best budget CPU' that actually fits what I think is my budget."

Realizing my budget is a lot less, I work my way to "I think these new games will run on a cheap ass CPU."

Then end with "The new parts launching next year is probably gonna be better and faster for the same price so I'll just buy next year."

 

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15 hours ago, Sypran said:

Oh god yeah. Reason I got a USB DAC. I couldn't stand the buzzing in my headphones, it was like a fly buzzing around somewhere in the room.

My x-fi internal sound card, don't create any buzzing. 

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10 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

My x-fi internal sound card, don't create any buzzing. 

I didn't either. All I can think about, is that maybe he probably used the frontal audio port of his case for his headphones, which the audio ground pin is grounded with the case and USB (cost cutting... most case manufactures don't make them, they buy it generic from Chinese manufacture... that is why you all see the ugly USB metal casing on the USB port and not precision cut holes and embedded USB port case to it), and made even worst, the cable is long in the case, and not or poorly shielded. I guess as no  reviewers check for this, no case manufactures cares in doing it right.

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3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

I didn't either. All I can think about, is that maybe he probably used the frontal audio port of his case for his headphones

 

4 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

My x-fi internal sound card, don't create any buzzing. 

I was talking about my laptop not a desktop. A Thinkpad W520. Not exactly a laptop youd expect good audio from.

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7 hours ago, YoloSwag said:

Again, the origin of dispute is subjective. It's like telling people the difference between shades of blue when they are colorblind to blue.

 

I'm not doubting that there are cases of placebo to some individuals, but real differences exist. Sadly not enough study on the matter there are.

It sounds like you are trying to use an abstract concept to argue a firm reality.

 

 

 

An this one just so everyone can see just how much the brain changes what you think you can hear.

 

 

 

 

Hearing and perception is a very well studied subject.  If you want to argue that these guys (all professors or experienced professionals with degrees) are somehow only being subjective then by all means.  But at the end of the day all Humans are limited and trying to argue that some might be right when a wealth of evidence says otherwise is naive. 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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So much cringe in this thread and so much off topic stuff :(

 

Im happy to see Creative still making new produces even though its mostly just nostalgia. My first soundcard was a Sound Blaster Live! Value, then I got a Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion Series, and had a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi HD USB. I sold the Fatal1ty Champion and X-Fi HD for what I paid for them then found a used X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional for $20 about 5 years ago. Still using it.

 

Internal soundcards are a niche market but some people sill have a want and/or need for one so its nice to see creative still trying :)

PC Audio Setup = Beyerdynamic DT 770 pro 80 ohm and Sennheiser pc37x (also for xbox) hooked up to Schiit Fulla 3

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1 hour ago, mr moose said:

 - Snip -

Just so you know, I did watch it.

 

The first video is very neutral about the first part, paraphrasing - if you think it all sounds the same, then it does. If you think you can hear it then you will hear it.

I am aware of these brain tricks but it doesn't mean everyone is a fool. I am aware that some products are just stupid, but not everything is. I'm glad he said that not all cheaper sound cards are crap.

 

So the guy chooses to do a test in a video then upload it to Youtube when Youtube compresses both video and audio. I am aware Youtube accepts high quality audio, but it doesn't mean it plays it back to you in lossless. Did the guy who made the video record it with the audio at 24-bit 192KHz or was it a 16-bit 44.1KHz audio?

 

The second video is nice in doing the explaining. But this guy does it better -

To point, while a lot of things can be attributed to placebo. Actual differences do exist. Noticing the differences could be placebo to some, but not all.

16-bit and 24-bit, has something to do with noise ratio. Now whether that noise can be detected by the listener takes in a lot of factors.

 

I'm saying the very small percentage of the population who actually say they can, actually do. If you can't, then no need to argue, if other people can, then don't argue about if they can hear it or not unless they can literally lend you their ear. Plus it's their money. Why even record at 24-bit or higher at all if there was no point? It's all about what gives less noise. Think of a chain, music file->DAC->AMP>Headphone (not an accurate presentation but close enough) if each part added noise, the overall result would be bad. If only one part added noise, then it would be more acceptable. For the audio file, if it was high quality lossless to begin with no problem there then you move on to the next part of the chain.

 

Again, not to start flame wars, but the whole thing can be subjective for you and me. Like the first part of this reply, in the words of Henry Ford - "Whether you think you can or whether you think you can't, you're right.", with it being true or placebo won't matter. What matters is what you believe.

You can bark like a dog, but that won't make you a dog.

You can act like someone you're not, but that won't change who you are.

 

Finished Crysis without a discrete GPU,15 FPS average, and a lot of heart

 

How I plan my builds -

Spoiler

For me I start with the "There's no way I'm not gonna spend $1,000 on a system."

Followed by the "Wow I need to buy the OS for a $100!?"

Then "Let's start with the 'best budget GPU' and 'best budget CPU' that actually fits what I think is my budget."

Realizing my budget is a lot less, I work my way to "I think these new games will run on a cheap ass CPU."

Then end with "The new parts launching next year is probably gonna be better and faster for the same price so I'll just buy next year."

 

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4 minutes ago, YoloSwag said:

Just so you know, I did watch it.

 

The first video is very neutral about the first part, paraphrasing - if you think it all sounds the same, then it does. If you think you can hear it then you will hear it.

I am aware of these brain tricks but it doesn't mean everyone is a fool. I am aware that some products are just stupid, but not everything is. I'm glad he said that not all cheaper sound cards are crap.

 

So the guy chooses to do a test in a video then upload it to Youtube when Youtube compresses both video and audio. I am aware Youtube accepts high quality audio, but it doesn't mean it plays it back to you in lossless. Did the guy who made the video record it with the audio at 24-bit 192KHz or was it a 16-bit 44.1KHz audio?

 

The second video is nice in doing the explaining. But this guy does it better -

To point, while a lot of things can be attributed to placebo. Actual differences do exist. Noticing the differences could be placebo to some, but not all.

16-bit and 24-bit, has something to do with noise ratio. Now whether that noise can be detected by the listener takes in a lot of factors.

 

I'm saying the very small percentage of the population who actually say they can, actually do. If you can't, then no need to argue, if other people can, then don't argue about if they can hear it or not unless they can literally lend you their ear. Plus it's their money. Why even record at 24-bit or higher at all if there was no point? It's all about what gives less noise. Think of a chain, music file->DAC->AMP>Headphone (not an accurate presentation but close enough) if each part added noise, the overall result would be bad. If only one part added noise, then it would be more acceptable. For the audio file, if it was high quality lossless to begin with no problem there then you move on to the next part of the chain.

 

Again, not to start flame wars, but the whole thing can be subjective for you and me. Like the first part of this reply, in the words of Henry Ford - "Whether you think you can or whether you think you can't, you're right.", with it being true or placebo won't matter. What matters is what you believe.

In that case I have a sound card for you, you'll hear the difference and it's only $200.

 

Snake oil sells for a reason.

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

In that case I have a sound card for you, you'll hear the difference and it's only $200.

 

Snake oil sells for a reason.

 

I'll give you a "thumbs up" for the recommendation :)

You can bark like a dog, but that won't make you a dog.

You can act like someone you're not, but that won't change who you are.

 

Finished Crysis without a discrete GPU,15 FPS average, and a lot of heart

 

How I plan my builds -

Spoiler

For me I start with the "There's no way I'm not gonna spend $1,000 on a system."

Followed by the "Wow I need to buy the OS for a $100!?"

Then "Let's start with the 'best budget GPU' and 'best budget CPU' that actually fits what I think is my budget."

Realizing my budget is a lot less, I work my way to "I think these new games will run on a cheap ass CPU."

Then end with "The new parts launching next year is probably gonna be better and faster for the same price so I'll just buy next year."

 

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Suddenly I'm recollecting fond memories of installing a sound blaster live in a Windows 2000 machine I pulled out of my uncles shed which had no sound when I was 11 or 12. Damn those were some good feels when I got it working.

 

<3

SND-SB0220-unit.jpg

 

Lmao makes me want a sound card in my system now. xD

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I think my onboard audio does just fine. 

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To hell with soundblaster, I want mathblaster

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Sound cards stopped mattering around 2008.

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I'll be honest, I initially got my creative Zx card because I wanted higher volume levels.  I had no idea that other aspects of my games would actually sound better at the same volume levels.  I use my pc to mainly game on, with some occasional light productivity work, and the onboard audio on my p8z77v-pro MB has  been "good-enough" .  When I do game, it's usually after my little boy goes to sleep, so I have to keep the volume levels down in order to hear him if he wakes up(the exception here are when my wife is up and listening out for him to, then I can crank up the volume).  So at lower volumes is where I became even more impressed and the best example is when playing games like battlefield where footsteps sounds can be important.  Now, footsteps are more defined and easier to pick out from all the other sounds, and I am able to hear those footsteps a lot sooner than with onboard audio.  I've noticed other things like that.   I can't say that a sound card is for everyone, but for me it has.

Rock On!

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On 5/8/2017 at 0:42 AM, Ryan_Vickers said:

How long until we have PCIe add-in cards that just have RGB lights on them and nothing else?

https://www.komplett.dk/product/944369#

 

Eh, close enough.

Watching Intel have competition is like watching a headless chicken trying to get out of a mine field

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