Custom watercooling at AIO prices?

[Marinatall_Ironside]

Just now, Enderman said:

And there are plenty more people who have had EK fittings leak.

It's pretty obvious that they suck, if you refuse to look at the facts then that's your problem.

Hopefully someone else who cares about their PC will not make the mistake of buying this.

Maybe if you refuse to stop using only a minority (even these popular YouTubers like @JayzTwoCents isn't helping), then I would more than likely believe you, but it's not helping. Is there anything you're not telling me?

 

Quote

(also known as: ignoring inconvenient data, suppressed evidence, fallacy of incomplete evidence, argument by selective observation, argument by half-truth, card stacking, fallacy of exclusion, ignoring the counter evidence, one-sided assessment, slanting, one-sidedness)

 

Description: When only select evidence is presented in order to persuade the audience to accept a position, and evidence that would go against the position is withheld.  The stronger the withheld evidence, the more fallacious the argument.

 

Let me ask you this question then: Have you ever assembled a custom watercooling loop in your system once?

 

I'm with @Yapi and @Daniel644 on this one. And if you cared to pay a single dime of attention to EK, they have plans on releasing expansion kits for their Fluid Gaming line of watercooling components.

[Enderman]

8 minutes ago, JurunceNK said:

Maybe if you refuse to stop using only a minority (even these popular YouTubers like @JayzTwoCents isn't helping), then I would more than likely believe you, but it's not helping.

Please explain in english what you mean by "using only a minority"?

 

I'm proving that there is a large amount of people affected by EK fittings leaking.

Obviously it is not a majority of fittings, it is far less than 50%, but still a very large amount.

You're the one who refuses to look at the dozens of examples of leaks.

 

You can find even more if you use "google search".

Point is, they suck.

I wouldn't risk my PC dying because I cheaped out and bought EK fittings.

[Marinatall_Ironside]

Just now, Enderman said:

Please explain in english what you mean by "using only a minority"?

Using a small group of data to prove your point.

 

You're making a bold claim using anecdotal evidence. Plus you're dodging the question I asked you.

 

And an individual is good at fabricating statistics.

 

For the love of god, please do the whole watercooling dance yourself before talking about watercooling. You'll thank me later.

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, JurunceNK said:

Using a small group of data to prove your point.

 

You're making a bold claim using anecdotal evidence. Plus you're dodging the question I asked you.

This was literally a collection of evidence from people who post it online...

It's called facts and research.

It is not mine, therefore it is not anecdotal.

If I had an EK fitting leak, and I used that as an example, that would have been anecdotal.

 

Do you know how statistics and data is collected? By collecting data from a large number of users.

Guess what I did? I collected a bunch of data from google to show you that EK fittings are prone to leaking.

Obviously no, not all of them leak, I posted examples of the ones that did.

 

an·ec·do·tal ˌanəkˈdōdl 

adjective

adjective anecdotal

1. (of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
    
    
   • characterized by or fond of telling anecdotes.
   • (of a painting) depicting small narrative incidents.

[Daniel644]

1 hour ago, Enderman said:

Leaks:

 

 

http://www.overclock.net/t/1615445/unusual-fitting-leak-what-to-do

 

 

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/hardware-clinic-2/leaking-ek-fittings-5490721.html

 

 

https://hardforum.com/threads/my-ek-predator-360-sprung-a-leak.1911678/

 

 

@7:25

 

 

 

 

https://hardforum.com/threads/water-leaked-all-over-gpu-and-motherboard.1933737/

 

 

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=1020635

 

 

And there are plenty more people who have had EK fittings leak.

It's pretty obvious that they suck, if you refuse to look at the facts then that's your problem.

This is not a "bad batch" these leaks are from many different years.

Hopefully someone else who cares about their PC will not make the mistake of buying this.

those where like ALL ROTARY FITTINGS.

 

continuing to attack this kit based on other stuff would be like telling someone not to buy a certain year Civic because that year Accord had issues or advising someone not to buy an FTW3 GPU because of the thermal pad issues on the FTW2 ACX coolers. ONE bad product doesn't mean the whole company only makes bad products, Jayz2cents did a review on this product and he was one of the people you referenced as part of your examples of defective fittings, if he can move past it and suggest the kit to budget minded people then it must not be all bad.

[Enderman]

3 minutes ago, Daniel644 said:

those where like ALL ROTARY FITTINGS.

 

continuing to attack this kit based on other stuff would be like telling someone not to buy a certain year Civic because that year Accord had issues or advising someone not to buy an FTW3 GPU because of the thermal pad issues on the FTW2 ACX coolers. ONE bad product doesn't mean the whole company only makes bad products, Jayz2cents did a review on this product and he was one of the people you referenced as part of your examples of defective fittings, if he can move past it and suggest the kit to budget minded people then it must not be all bad.

1) Does this look like a rotary fitting to you?

 

2) All those examples were from many different years.

As I already said, it is not a "bad batch" it is simply bad fittings that should go directly in the trash.

 

3) Obviously he's gonna move past it if the company keeps sending him cool stuff to review, since that's basically his job. He can also afford to replace a $500 motherboard or GPU easily. I'm pretty sure someone cheaping out on the lowest cost possible aluminum loop doesn't have that kind of money.

 

4) this is not one example of a bad product, it is A DOZEN examples of a bad product, and there are even more on google.

This is not my anecdotal evidence, these are plenty of examples of leaking EK fittings from all over the internet, from many different years.

[Daniel644]

55 minutes ago, Enderman said:

1) Does this look like a rotary fitting to you?

 

2) All those examples were from many different years.

As I already said, it is not a "bad batch" it is simply bad fittings that should go directly in the trash.

 

3) Obviously he's gonna move past it if the company keeps sending him cool stuff to review, since that's basically his job. He can also afford to replace a $500 motherboard or GPU easily. I'm pretty sure someone cheaping out on the lowest cost possible aluminum loop doesn't have that kind of money.

 

4) this is not one example of a bad product, it is A DOZEN examples of a bad product, and there are even more on google.

This is not my anecdotal evidence, these are plenty of examples of leaking EK fittings from all over the internet, from many different years.

that looks more like an issue with the radiator itself.

[Marinatall_Ironside]

1 hour ago, Enderman said:

3) Obviously he's gonna move past it if the company keeps sending him cool stuff to review, since that's basically his job. He can also afford to replace a $500 motherboard or GPU easily. I'm pretty sure someone cheaping out on the lowest cost possible aluminum loop doesn't have that kind of money.

 

That's not how it works pal.

 

Even people with high-powered careers making damn good money who's interested in this kind of stuff would very well be able to afford it once all the bills and priorities are paid and they don't have any other expensive hobbies.

 

And anecdotal evidence IS anecdotal evidence, no matter how you slice it.

Edited July 13, 2017 by JurunceNK

[Yapi]

Of course you see EK fittings leaking when they sell the most fittings. People who got hardware damaged by leaking got new fittings or even got reimbursed.
So why dont you stop your anti-EK marketing?

 

[tom_w141]

@Yapi You didn't mention or quote anyone mate. Whoever you may be talking to won't know

[For Science!]

@Enderman

 

Its always possible to find fittings that have caused leaks, even for bitspower (see below), but that is not important.

Spoiler

http://www.overclock.net/t/1469851/leaking-bitspower-90-deg-rotary-elbows-what-to-do

 

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?223640-Bitspower-Compression-Fittings-Leaking

 

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=991772

 

 

I firmly stand by that all fittings from reputable watercooling companies (EK, Bitspower, Alphacool, Monsoon etc etc) will serve the purpose and chances of failure are down to your real luck if you have set things up correctly (not under or overtightened, matching measurements etc). Although I do agree that Bitspower fittings do feel more quality and weightier; I wouldn't completely dismiss any other company such as EK.

 

I have a custom loop setup with 10 angled fittings (7x 90's and 2x dual 45s and 1x 45) from EKWB and none of them are leaking. My drain port is made of Bitspower stuff becuase I liked their ball-valve and T-splitter, again no leaks.

 

With regards to expandability, we will have to wait and see and so I see your point. EK are clearly looking into providing equivalents of higher performing pumps in aluminium for example the D5. Depending on how things go, aluminium may well become a viable option in the future.

 

 

 

[For Science!]

16 hours ago, Enderman said:

1) An SPC is basically just a renamed DDC. There are multiple models of the DDC pump, such as 2.5, 3.1 etc

See here:

I think you are misquoting information here, my post was to illustrate that the SPC pump is not like the DDC because the currently sold DDCs are not the 3.1 variants usually anymore (3.25 is more typical). The SPC pumps lag behind in performance compared to DDCs.

 

However for good reason, I will also add. DDCs and D5s have stainless steel Impellers which would likely cause corrosion issues with the aluminium series. On the otherhand the SPCs have a ceramic/plastic build and so avoid this issue all together.

 

SPC and DDCs may look quite similar, but both performance-wise and composition-wise is very different. 

[Yapi]

53 minutes ago, For Science! said:

I think you are misquoting information here, my post was to illustrate that the SPC pump is not like the DDC because the currently sold DDCs are not the 3.1 variants usually anymore (3.25 is more typical). The SPC pumps lag behind in performance compared to DDCs.

 

However for good reason, I will also add. DDCs and D5s have stainless steel Impellers which would likely cause corrosion issues with the aluminium series. On the otherhand the SPCs have a ceramic/plastic build and so avoid this issue all together.

 

SPC and DDCs may look quite similar, but both performance-wise and composition-wise is very different. 

Stainless steel is not an issue inside an aluminum liquid cooling loop. It is true that it's far away from Al on the galvanic series chart, but 
to induce galvanic corrosion is a bit more complicated. After all, the Jet plate inserts inside the Supremacy AX is stainless steel, and you will not see any galvanic corrosion with those water blocks.
You can freely Google and this subject and find things like:
 

Aluminium and stainless steel together also appears to be a bi-metallic corrosion risk, from the 'nobility' table.
With this combination the affect of relative surface area on corrosion is important.

A large area of 'cathode' relative to 'anode' will accelerate the anodic corrosion. Although aluminium is anodic to stainless steel, large relative surface areas of aluminium to stainless steel can be acceptable, dependant on local conditions.
Stainless steel fasteners in aluminium plates or sheets are normally considered safe, whereas aluminium rivets or bolts holding stainless steel parts together is an unwise combination, as there is a practical risk of corrosion.

An example of the safe use of stainless steel and aluminium together is where stainless steel fasteners and hold down bolts are used to secure aluminium roadway or bridge parapet guards.

 

[For Science!]

11 minutes ago, Yapi said:

After all, the Jet plate inserts inside the Supremacy AX is stainless steel

Could I get a source on that? the only proper tear down I could find was https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EKWB/Fluid_Gaming_240G_Kit/3.html

and they do not comment on the material of the jetplate, the dullness looks like its aluminium to me though, and the GPU jet plate certainly looks like aluminium so I would be surprised if they just used stainless steel for the CPU jet plate in an all aluminium system.

 

Nonetheless, I would take EKWB's official advice and not use stainless steel pumps in the system until they either establish it is okay on a long term perspective, or release the aluminium versions of the D5 etc.

[Yapi]

19 hours ago, Enderman said:

AIOs are 30, at least the standard asetek ones from Corsair and NZXT.

 

The "turning hardness" of the fitting has to do with the o-ring used in the rotary joint.

This is where all the EK fittings leak from.

Please go do some research on how rotary fittings work, and why Bitspower is much better.

Can you name me one AIO that has 30 FPI? Like a link to a manufacturer page where it says its 30?

[Yapi]

3 hours ago, For Science! said:

Could I get a source on that? the only proper tear down I could find was https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EKWB/Fluid_Gaming_240G_Kit/3.html

and they do not comment on the material of the jetplate, the dullness looks like its aluminium to me though, and the GPU jet plate certainly looks like aluminium so I would be surprised if they just used stainless steel for the CPU jet plate in an all aluminium system.

 

Nonetheless, I would take EKWB's official advice and not use stainless steel pumps in the system until they either establish it is okay on a long term perspective, or release the aluminium versions of the D5 etc.

Can you tell me where did you see this official statement from EK about the use of stainless steel?
Thanks!

[For Science!]

38 minutes ago, Yapi said:

-snip-

Please find below the correspondance I had with EKWB as well as the subsequent response from an industry affiliate.

 

 

4 hours ago, Yapi said:

all, the Jet plate inserts inside the Supremacy AX is stainless steel

Again, could you link me to where you got this information from?

[Yapi]

1 hour ago, For Science! said:

Please find below the correspondance I had with EKWB as well as the subsequent response from an industry affiliate.

 

 

Again, could you link me to where you got this information from?

There is no link, simply disassemble one Supremacy AX and see for yourself.
Guess that EK guy will be changing his story soon.

[For Science!]

Just now, Yapi said:

There is no link, simply disassemble one Supremacy AX and see for yourself.

I will contact EKWB and post their reply here. Hopefully your sources are reliable.

[Yapi]

Both the physics and sources are reliable. There is no fear of using parts that contain some stainless steel. 
But let's wait for the official. And please send the inquiry to the offical support team.

[For Science!]

2 minutes ago, Yapi said:

-snip- sources are reliable

8 minutes ago, Yapi said:

There is no link -snip-

No source is not a reliable source. I do not have mass-spectrometric eyes so cannot tell the difference between most dull silvery metals just by a picture. Let me know if you can definitely make a call on why the picture below is convincingly stainless steel and not aluminium. If you had one in your hand you probably could calculate it by density (2.7 g/cm3 vs ~7.6 g/cm3) so let me know if you can do the experiment for us.

Anyways I have put in a ticket like before, so EK will let us know tomorrow.

[Enderman]

8 hours ago, For Science! said:

@Enderman

 

Its always possible to find fittings that have caused leaks, even for bitspower (see below), but that is not important.

There was an incident in 2009 where a bad batch of fittings was produced with defective o-rings, that's why a bunch of people got leaky ones.

I'm pretty sure the 2011 complaints were people that bought from that same batch, because some places keep stock for a long time.

Not sure if there was another incident in 2014 or if those people bought old stock of fittings.

The last example is of a pump top, not a fitting. I never said anything about their pump tops being good.

 

Other than the incident in 2009 and possibly 2014, there have been no leaks of bitspower fittings (except for the people that forget to tighten them of course)

 

I see a post on the internet every few months of another EK fitting leak. No, EK fittings are not 100x more popular than bitspower, there is no excuse for having fittings so prone to leaking. There's a reason all high end system builders use bitspower fittings and not other brands. Again this doesn't mean that your fittings will leak, it just means there's a higher chance of them to do so. If you want to take that higher risk of killing your PC to save a few bucks that's your choice.

[Enderman]

8 hours ago, For Science! said:

I think you are misquoting information here, my post was to illustrate that the SPC pump is not like the DDC because the currently sold DDCs are not the 3.1 variants usually anymore (3.25 is more typical). The SPC pumps lag behind in performance compared to DDCs.

 

However for good reason, I will also add. DDCs and D5s have stainless steel Impellers which would likely cause corrosion issues with the aluminium series. On the otherhand the SPCs have a ceramic/plastic build and so avoid this issue all together.

 

SPC and DDCs may look quite similar, but both performance-wise and composition-wise is very different. 

I just looked at some reviews, it actually doesn't seem as bad for noise as a DDC, pretty quiet pump tbh.

http://thermalbench.com/2016/06/30/ek-xtop-spc-60-inc-pump/3/

Seems decent for a small loop, although only time will tell of its reliability and if it's as prone to failing as a regular DDC.

 

The D5 is tried and true, very quiet and reliable.

Getting an SPC before it's been on the market for a few years is a risk I also wouldn't take with a watercooled PC.

Worst that can happen is your PC overheats and shuts down though, not a big deal for some people.

[WkdPaul]

Thread somewhat cleaned ... ?

 

I would like to ask everyone to stay respectful toward each other, I don't want to have to lock this thread.

 

As mods we're not here to fact check everyone replies, but anything that is in the CS (personal attacks, insults, being aggressive, condescending and generally disrespectful including "you don't know anything" types of replies) will be moderated.

 

If you think someone is wrong, then please discuss it in a respectful manner.

 

If you think someone is violating the CS, report the reply.

[Yapi]

@Enderman
How about naming me that 30 FPI AIO radiator mate?

@wkdpaul
Ok, I will stay respectful to the guy when he starts being respectful to companies that try to produce good stuff for the enthusiasts.
How come he can bash at EK with false claims, he can spread wrong information again and again... and get away with it?