User-made patch allows for Windows 7 and 8.1 users to install updates on Kaby Lake and Ryzen

[Princess Luna]

8 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

. 

We can try our best by using Firefox, having tampermonkey scripts to kill Facebook/Google data collection, disable telemetry on operating systems, don't use cookies etc etc etc.... but in the end of the day your data will still end up somewhere you wish it didn't, it really is unavoidable.

 

I do think people are overreacting with the whole Win10 deal, imagine the absurd number of people who are not even aware of it and use their OS just fine and will die without knowing any thing and nothing changes any ways in their lives, we are aware of it so we can take some better measures but in reality it shouldn't change any thing at all to the greatest majority of users.

 

I was actually thinking of starting a topic to do ask, what is the possible worse thing that could happen due to telemetry? The user experience is unchanged whether with or without any ways, as long as it doesn't compromise like your bank account or something why does it even matter?

[LAwLz]

6 hours ago, Princess Cadence said:

it isn't like it changes anything in my life, in today's world "privacy" is a joke any ways

That's what you might think, but studies show that it has a very negative impact on not only your own life, but democracy as a whole.

It is a much larger issue than most people think.

 

Elizabeth Stoycheff is one out of many people who has done experiments on how surveillance unknowingly affects us. What her study found was that what people are much less likely to express opinions which they think they are in a minority to hold, if they know that they are being monitored. That is a big threat to the principles of democracy because it is unconscious self-censoring.

 

Just look at this forum. I personally hold back a lot of times because I know that someone can just report my post and a mod will ban me. The same type of effect happens subconsciously with mass surveillance by for example the government, and most likely happens to some degree when you use products that harvest your personal information as well, such as Windows 10.

 

Chances are you act slightly different than what you would do if it weren't for this constant surveillance, without you even realizing it.

 

 

6 hours ago, FratStar said:

Microsoft claims they aren't collecting any PII yet I've heard that they are collecting your MAC address which can easily be traced back to a specific user.

They are collecting waaaay more traceable information than just your MAC address.

Here is the list of things Microsoft collects (just from telemetry, which is not the only things they collect mind you) when you have it at the basic level (the lowest you can go without blocking things yourself, which Microsoft tries their hardest to prevent).

The document listing all the things they collect is 97 pages long.

[Droidbot]

4 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

They are collecting waaaay more traceable information than just your MAC address.

Here is the list of things Microsoft collects (just from telemetry, which is not the only things they collect mind you) when you have it at the basic level (the lowest you can go without blocking things yourself, which Microsoft tries their hardest to prevent).

The document listing all the things they collect is 97 pages long.

I agree with the first part that the mods are quick to censor sometimes, but I've never not expressed an opinion here in fear of being banned. If I'll be honest, while I like it here, there's a million other communities in the sea. 

 

Having a quick skim through that sorts it into a few parts: 

- Common

- Appraiser 

- Census

  - Error Reporting

  - Inventory 

  - OneDrive

- OOBE/Setup

  - Winlogon

- Software/Update

  - Store

  - DeliveryOptClient (assuming this is P2P delivery)

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, Princess Cadence said:

The user experience is unchanged whether with or without any ways, as long as it doesn't compromise like your bank account or something why does it even matter?

That's like asking "why aren't you OK with your neighbor using his binoculars to look at your 10 year old child showering?".

As long as your child is not aware of it, it doesn't harm her in any way. "what you don't know won't hurt you", "ignorance is bliss" and all that.

 

But if she did know about it, she would behave differently right? Or if you knew about it you would not like it, right? You would most likely want to prevent it.

It's the same thing here.

 

But on top of that it's the ethical aspect of it. Microsoft are essentially lying and spitting their paying customers in the face.

Things like ignoring certain host entries, off buttons that don't actually turn things off properly, editing GPOs and registry keys so that it seems like they work, but they only work on certain editions, labeling things "security updates" when they actually just installs the telemetry service on Windows 7 and 8. I got more examples but I think you get the point. These are all practices which I despise and quite frankly want to be illegal if they aren't already. Microsoft are deliberately trying to lie and deceive their customers for their own benefits, and I just can't support that.

 

But even if you are purely looking for objective, hard logic arguments, then it's still a security issue (it undeniably opens up for a lot of different types of attacks) and it does affect performance negatively (don't know how much, but it does at least to some degree).

 

[Princess Luna]

Just now, LAwLz said:

That's like asking "why aren't you OK with your neighbor using his binoculars to look at your 10 year old child showering?".

As long as your child is not aware of it, it doesn't harm her in any way. "what you don't know won't hurt you", "ignorance is bliss" and all that.

A bit of a farfetched comparison but I get your point.

 

Look don't get me wrong I agree with you for the most part, I just feel that teenagers that only game on their desktops might be overreacting a little, it isn't the end of the world and we pretty much can't fight against it entirely, better to just live the way you want to live regardless of it than lose your sleep over this stuff so much... you only lose when you let it affect you right? While I can still do what I do on my desktop with relatively safety I'm not going to paint it as the end of the world.

[Sauron]

It would be funny if microsoft pushed an update to make this no longer work

[PlayStation 2]

mfw this somehow got into privacy

[Droidbot]

1 minute ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

mfw this somehow got into privacy

welcome to every windows 10 conversation ever

pick your side: 

- the Windows 7 '''but muh <x-feature>'''

- the Windows 10 '''it's modern and cool and shit and it spies on you'''

[JoeCoke]

I love it when people say 7 and 8.1 are holding us back, yet 10 is practically the same shit in a different wrapper. lmao

 

Let's all face a fact, M$ hasn't made much progress since Vista SP2.

[Dylanc1500]

7 minutes ago, 2Buck said:

I love it when people say 7 and 8.1 are holding us back, yet 10 is practically the same shit in a different wrapper. lmao

 

Let's all face a fact, M$ hasn't made much progress since Vista SP2.

What I find funny is most people don't realize Windows Vista (Project Longhorn) originally was what Windows 7 became. Due to it being much better and farther ahead of what the Vienna team had developed. Microsoft  turned the development of Longhorn over to the Vienna team, merged the projects and told the Longhorn team they had 2 years to develope an OS basically from the ground up, while the "Vienna"(originally Longhorn) project had been in development since XP.

[JoeCoke]

11 minutes ago, Dylanc1500 said:

What I find funny is most people don't realize Windows Vista (Project Longhorn) originally was what Windows 7 became. Due to it being much better and farther ahead of what the Vienna team had developed. Microsoft  turned the development of Longhorn over to the Vienna team, merged the projects and told the Longhorn team they had 2 years to develope an OS basically from the ground up, while the "Vienna"(originally Longhorn) project had been in development since XP.

Yep, 7 is pretty much just a rebrand of VSP2, which is why I smile at the ignorance when people say Vista was never good.

[Shakaza]

52 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

That's what you might think, but studies show that it has a very negative impact on not only your own life, but democracy as a whole.

It is a much larger issue than most people think.

 

Elizabeth Stoycheff is one out of many people who has done experiments on how subservience unknowingly affects us. What her study found was that what people are much less likely to express opinions which they think they are in a minority to hold, if they know that they are being monitored. That is a big threat to the principles of democracy because it is unconscious self-censoring.

 

Just look at this forum. I personally hold back a lot of times because I know that someone can just report my post and a mod will ban me. The same type of effect happens subconsciously with mass surveillance by for example the government, and most likely happens to some degree when you use products that harvest your personal information as well, such as Windows 10.

 

Chances are you act slightly different than what you would do if it weren't for this constant surveillance, without you even realizing it.

 

 

They are collecting waaaay more traceable information than just your MAC address.

Here is the list of things Microsoft collects (just from telemetry, which is not the only things they collect mind you) when you have it at the basic level (the lowest you can go without blocking things yourself, which Microsoft tries their hardest to prevent).

The document listing all the things they collect is 97 pages long.

Thank you for this informative post! Yet another reason why privacy is critically important! Honestly, I never would've found this research paper without you mentioning it, so you've done a very valuable service today. People really need to know this kind of thing. I'm sure there would be more collective outrage and realization that, "Hey, privacy is actually really important! Let's add it to the U.S. Constitution." or whatever document is relevant to whatever country you belong to if news organizations reported on them. People need to know! They can't make the choice of whether it's right or not if they don't have all the facts! 

[Dylanc1500]

36 minutes ago, 2Buck said:

Yep, 7 is pretty much just a rebrand of VSP2, which is why I smile at the ignorance when people say Vista was never good.

Not mention, I give the Vista team credit, they built a damn good OS for having only 2 years build it from the ground up.

 

It was the same way with ME.

[Jito463]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

Chances are you act slightly different than what you would do if it weren't for this constant surveillance, without you even realizing it.

Not me.  I've made comments that I knew could get me fired, while talking directly to the owner of the company.  Heck, I've been fired because of my attitude about speaking my mind.  One would think I'd have learned my lesson by now, but I'm stubborn like that.

[vorticalbox]

15 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

If your being serious, piss off. This is only the small, digital only part of my games library and why should I have to deal with a known and acknowledged bug that can and has adversely affected the way the majority of them run:


https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/games_windows_10/eta-on-windows-8-10-dx9-memory-allocation-issues/94f56a72-a0cf-4169-a8b3-de753182175e
https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/1263324/gpu-memory-allocation-limit-on-directx9-windows-8
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/863242/geforce-drivers/-request-remove-4gb-limit-of-vram-for-dx9-games/1/

Its been worked on for over 2 years this bug...and its still not resolved.

no Kotor  

[kaylexmorgana]

On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 11:07 AM, Princess Cadence said:

Windows 7 was awesome... but nowadays being soo damn easy to customize the Windows 10 to still be, look and act like 7 there simply is no reason to keep insisting on it.

 

Telemetry can be disable and stop thinking you're so damn important that Microsoft is dying of interest to see what you do on your desktop

uh no? there is nothing that windows 10 does better then 7 besides maybe be faster and  spy on me 24/7. I still cannot change ALL MY FONT on my pc in windows 10 like I can in windows 7.

[Dabombinable]

3 hours ago, vorticalbox said:

no Kotor  

I've got it on disc. And it'd be the same for Morrowind as well if I wasn't a few years too late-I really wanted to have it on my Windows ME machine.

[LAwLz]

4 hours ago, Shakaza said:

Thank you for this informative post! Yet another reason why privacy is critically important! Honestly, I never would've found this research paper without you mentioning it, so you've done a very valuable service today. People really need to know this kind of thing. I'm sure there would be more collective outrage and realization that, "Hey, privacy is actually really important! Let's add it to the U.S. Constitution." or whatever document is relevant to whatever country you belong to if news organizations reported on them. People need to know! They can't make the choice of whether it's right or not if they don't have all the facts! 

You should look up panopticon and the theories behind that too.

 

Jeremy Bentham came up with the idea for the panopticon prison. If you've seen Guardians of the Galaxy you've seen something very similar to it. It's a prison where all the cells are surrounding a watch tower. In the watch tower there is a watchman who can at any point in time look at any prisoner from the tower. The watchman can only look at one prisoner at a time (since it's just one person), but the prisoners don't know who the watchman is looking at at any particular moment. So they do not know when they are being watched, and the theory is that they will therefore behave as if they are being watched at all times.

 

You can draw quite a few parallels between it and surveillance today.

 

 

3 hours ago, Jito463 said:

Not me.  I've made comments that I knew could get me fired, while talking directly to the owner of the company.  Heck, I've been fired because of my attitude about speaking my mind.  One would think I'd have learned my lesson by now, but I'm stubborn like that.

Even if that's true (it's easy to say that you don't subconsciously gets affected by things, but it wouldn't be subconscious if you were aware of it) it still happens to other people, which is very, very bad.