Police Surveil Journalist in an Attempt to Intimidate

[Blade of Grass]

Montreal Police have been found to have obtained 24 warrants to surveil La Presse columnist 24/7. The warrants issued were broad, allowing the police to not only track his location at all time, but also to allow them to obtain the information of everyone who he contacted.

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"My metadata was transferred to the police. The police had the right to activate the GPS in my phone — to locate me at any time. I lived in this fiction that this could not happen in this country."

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Jeffrey Boro told CBC Montreal's Daybreak the decision threatens the roles journalists and defence lawyers play in society.

"If journalists are not allowed to work without having these worries, not being able to get informants to tell them what's going on, it weakens our whole system," he said.

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Quebec's Public Security Minister Martin Coiteux called the situation "very worrisome," and commended La Presse for coming forward.

 

"[This] raises the debate of the independence of all the powers in our society — the political power, the judicial power, the police services and the independent press," he told reporters on Monday. "And all of theses things need to be respected and all of these things need to be defended." 

Toronto Star

CBC

 

This is part of a bigger issue at hand. Last year the Canadian Government passed Bill C-51, a bill which the Harper government created to increase the police's power to surveil Canadians and which granted them more power to act on intelligence. This new bill created a warrant which can “contravene a right or freedom guaranteed by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms” or be “contrary to other Canadian law”. Overall, it's essentially the Patriot Act, but in Canada; but to see the police using the additional powers granted them in this bill (which was centered around terrorism) is disturbing. Sadly, this isn't the first time that an issue such as this has happened (specifically, the Montreal Police have done things like this before) and I suspect that it will only become all too common in the future. 

[Spork829]

This stuff is frustrating, but does anyone actually know how to tackle it? That's the thing, I have no idea how to fix this. Journalists want freedom to report without being spied on, police want to spy on them for everyone's safety. What do you do? 

14 minutes ago, Blade of Grass said:

can “contravene a right or freedom guaranteed by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms” or be “contrary to other Canadian law”

That sounds like some lazy politics if there ever were. "Instead of changing this law that's flawed, we're just gonna make another that says that you can override the flawed part of that other one in certain very vague situations. That'll fix it right up!"

[Daveeede]

Hey look Montreal is in the news!

 

Hey look another scandal in Montreal!

 

No surprises. I personally wouldn't trust a writer for La Presse/JDM further than I can throw him. If Federal law allows this to happen, then it shouldn't really be news. The police had warrants so technically they were allowed to track the journalists. Is it ethically ok? Probably not, but the law allows it so I don't see the big fuss. Maybe the journalists in question were doing some shady AF stuff.

[raphidy]

Heard about this on the radio. Seems like the police is doing some damage control and saying that's an exception case. I don't trust their words though. Better buy burner phone guys.

[TidaLWaveZ]

8 minutes ago, Spork829 said:

This stuff is frustrating, but does anyone actually know how to tackle it? That's the thing, I have no idea how to fix this. Journalists want freedom to report without being spied on, police want to spy on them for everyone's safety. What do you do? 

That sounds like some lazy politics if there ever were. "Instead of changing this law that's flawed, we're just gonna make another that says that you can override the flawed part of that other one in certain very vague situations. That'll fix it right up!"

Proposed solution:

 

[dizmo]

This is why North Americans need to riot for change. France does it and it seems to work well.

Seriously though, Canadians need to be more pissed when their rights are threatened. I'm surprised the Americans let their government get away with it, though I guess it didn't affect their gun toting rights so it's not as important

 

Once again though we're left without the full story. I'd like to know why the police felt the need.

If it was possible terrorist ties/threats. I'm not as pissed, but still disturbed.

Gotta protect that maple syrup and poutine.

[Spork829]

3 minutes ago, dizmo said:

I'm surprised the Americans let their government get away with it, though I guess it didn't affect their gun toting rights so it's not as important

Unfortunately, the attitude of a lot of Americans seems to be the whole "I don't care if they spy on me because I have nothing to hide" thing. Which in my opinion is a lot like saying "I don't care if there's free speech, I have nothing important to say". 

[dizmo]

Just now, Spork829 said:

Unfortunately, the attitude of a lot of Americans seems to be the whole "I don't care if they spy on me because I have nothing to hide" thing. Which in my opinion is a lot like saying "I don't care if there's free speech, I have nothing important to say". 

Haha, yeah. The US media is a powerful thing. I'm always amused when I watch it. You can pretty clearly see when they're trying to sway public opinion one way or the other.

[RagnarokDel]

They didnt spy on him to intimidate him, Internal Affairs was trying to find a leak. I'm not saying it's ok to spy on journalists but let's not pretend like they were doing it for no reason. A cop was talking to him about ongoing investigations.

19 minutes ago, Spork829 said:

This stuff is frustrating, but does anyone actually know how to tackle it? That's the thing, I have no idea how to fix this. Journalists want freedom to report without being spied on, police want to spy on them for everyone's safety. What do you do? 

That sounds like some lazy politics if there ever were. "Instead of changing this law that's flawed, we're just gonna make another that says that you can override the flawed part of that other one in certain very vague situations. That'll fix it right up!"

Probably because it would require all the provinces to agree to change the canadian charter of rights. It's similar to changing the constitution.

[Spork829]

1 minute ago, dizmo said:

Haha, yeah. The US media is a powerful thing. I'm always amused when I watch it. You can pretty clearly see when they're trying to sway public opinion one way or the other.

Yep, I stay away from mainstream news, ESPECIALLY cable network news as much as possible. I don't think anyone in this country actually knows anything, certainly anything political, anymore, because everything has a different bias. In some instances it's gotten to the point where different news networks don't even just have a different spin on the same event, but will report  a partially or entirely different event. And no one cares. 

[Spork829]

3 minutes ago, RagnarokDel said:

Probably because it would require all the provinces to agree to change the canadian charter of rights. It's similar to changing the constitution

But all the provinces didn't have to agree to this new law that in effect does the same thing? If so, that's really shady. 

[RagnarokDel]

5 minutes ago, Spork829 said:

But all the provinces didn't have to agree to this new law that in effect does the same thing? If so, that's really shady. 

The federal government can write any law they want, that doesnt mean it's going to stick. Bill C-51 has yet to be challenged in court as far as I know. The charter of rights and the constitution are evidently more powerful then some random law passed by the last federal government.

 

Freedom of the press is protected in the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms.

 

As a side note, If I  was a journalist, I would have a burner phone, not because of the police, because I wouldnt want random people knowing my personal phone number.

[dizmo]

3 minutes ago, Spork829 said:

Yep, I stay away from mainstream news, ESPECIALLY cable network news as much as possible. I don't think anyone in this country actually knows anything, certainly anything political, anymore, because everything has a different bias. In some instances it's gotten to the point where different news networks don't even just have a different spin on the same event, but will report  a partially or entirely different event. And no one cares. 

Saddens me really.

Haha, politics. The US is one of the most ass backwards countries when it comes to the democratic process.

I think Jeremy Clarkson put it best when he asked "out of your country of 300 million plus people, the best you can come up with is someone with nylon hair and a criminal?"

 

I fully intend to watch the US election with a large bowl of popcorn. It's gonna be interesting watching those states tick down.

[TidaLWaveZ]

26 minutes ago, dizmo said:

This is why North Americans need to riot for change. France does it and it seems to work well.

Seriously though, Canadians need to be more pissed when their rights are threatened. I'm surprised the Americans let their government get away with it, though I guess it didn't affect their gun toting rights so it's not as important

 

Once again though we're left without the full story. I'd like to know why the police felt the need.

If it was possible terrorist ties/threats. I'm not as pissed, but still disturbed.

Gotta protect that maple syrup and poutine.

 

22 minutes ago, Spork829 said:

Unfortunately, the attitude of a lot of Americans seems to be the whole "I don't care if they spy on me because I have nothing to hide" thing. Which in my opinion is a lot like saying "I don't care if there's free speech, I have nothing important to say". 

 

A lot of non tech savvy people will speak with the "I've got nothing to hide attitude" but I think the truth(at least for those that I know) is that the majority of people are too invested in other aspects of life to have the NSA as a priority and I think the government banks on that idea.

 

With things like Family, Friends, School, and Work how much off time do we really have?  Granted not everyone is the same but I'm sure that the majority spends a healthy amount of time working which leaves little time for riot/protest. I could be wrong but I'd say the average North American(or any working class human) just want's to relax/rest/sleep in the hours that they aren't working.  I'd also guess that many couldn't afford to miss work to be a part of such things.

 

After all said and done, our government smacks so much down on citizens like taxes and a rigged education system to keep people in debt for years, that we have too much on our plates to rebel against the government.(IMO)

[Spork829]

12 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Saddens me really.

Haha, politics. The US is one of the most ass backwards countries when it comes to the democratic process.

I think Jeremy Clarkson put it best when he asked "out of your country of 300 million plus people, the best you can come up with is someone with nylon hair and a criminal?"

 

I fully intend to watch the US election with a large bowl of popcorn. It's gonna be interesting watching those states tick down.

Yeah, and I hate that no one here, especially the older generation, can grasp said ass-backwardness. For example, while I point out our extremely broken system as the reason we have these two morons as our candidates, my dad's attitude is "the system works just fine, voters are just so dumb these days." Really frustrating. 

[Spork829]

9 minutes ago, TidaLWaveZ said:

and a rigged education system to keep people in debt for years

Don't even get me started on public education.

[TidaLWaveZ]

Just now, Spork829 said:

Don't even get me started on public education.

Lol, it hurt me just mentioning it, but as it's been sucking up all the money I make I had too.

[Spork829]

2 minutes ago, TidaLWaveZ said:

Lol, it hurt me just mentioning it, but as it's been sucking up all the money I make I had too.

Yeah... I think I'll probably go to college, but it'll certainly be interesting to see. I'm not even explicitly talking about that, though, the whole public K-12 system shouldn't exist either. 

[TidaLWaveZ]

Just now, Spork829 said:

Yeah... I think I'll probably go to college, but it'll certainly be interesting to see. I'm not even explicitly talking about that, though, the whole public K-12 system shouldn't exist either. 

 

Looking back on my k-12 it kind of seems like it was a glorified babysitting service.

[Spork829]

1 minute ago, TidaLWaveZ said:

 

Looking back on my k-12 it kind of seems like it was a glorified babysitting service.

And it could easily be so much better if it was run in a way where there's ACTUALLY COMPETITION. 

[PlayStation 2]

Welcome to North America, folks. The system is so fucked up that I don't even know anymore.

[Blade of Grass]

30 minutes ago, dizmo said:

This is why North Americans need to riot for change. France does it and it seems to work well.

Seriously though, Canadians need to be more pissed when their rights are threatened. I'm surprised the Americans let their government get away with it, though I guess it didn't affect their gun toting rights so it's not as important

 

Once again though we're left without the full story. I'd like to know why the police felt the need.

If it was possible terrorist ties/threats. I'm not as pissed, but still disturbed.

Gotta protect that maple syrup and poutine.

I agree, generally were quite passive about things, but when it comes to the government granting the police power to essentially circumvent our current legal system we should get angry. 

 

They didn't even believe it was connected to terrorism. The reporter in question was writing a story on the police, so they obtained a warrant under the guise that it would help their internal affairs investigation. 

22 minutes ago, RagnarokDel said:

They didnt spy on him to intimidate him, Internal Affairs was trying to find a leak. I'm not saying it's ok to spy on journalists but let's not pretend like they were doing it for no reason. A cop was talking to him about ongoing investigations.

Probably because it would require all the provinces to agree to change the canadian charter of rights. It's similar to changing the constitution.

You don't think there's any grounds for intimidation when the police track a journalist who are in the midst of writing negative stories about them? Sounds suspicious to me. 

15 minutes ago, RagnarokDel said:

The federal government can write any law they want, that doesnt mean it's going to stick. Bill C-51 has yet to be challenged in court as far as I know. The charter of rights and the constitution are evidently more powerful then some random law passed by the last federal government.

 

Freedom of the press is protected in the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms.

Well, not necessarily. The Charter is suppose to surpass all legislation, but it is subject to both reasonable limits (S.1, this section is why we have freedom of speech but can be prosecuted for threatening people etc) and the notwithstanding clause (S.33). The notwithstanding clause has never been used by a government before, specifically because it's political suicide, but if the law were to fail a charter challenge they could just invoke S.33 and then we would have an unconstitutional law which is enforcable.  

[AresKrieger]

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain."

[GSTARR]

This story is so incomplete.

Does anybody know what the reporter was reporting on? Like what information he had that made police suspicious?

[Blade of Grass]

1 hour ago, Spork829 said:

This stuff is frustrating, but does anyone actually know how to tackle it? That's the thing, I have no idea how to fix this. Journalists want freedom to report without being spied on, police want to spy on them for everyone's safety. What do you do? 

That sounds like some lazy politics if there ever were. "Instead of changing this law that's flawed, we're just gonna make another that says that you can override the flawed part of that other one in certain very vague situations. That'll fix it right up!"

My preferred analysis of these scenarios is based on a simple test; does the benefit from this outweigh the loss of rights. More specifically, can the government show that directly as a result of these violations they were able to accomplish something which benefitted society so much so that the loss is negligible. 

 

What that section says is actually more nuanced. It's not saying that there's anything wrong with our current laws, instead it's saying that this law can ignore all currently established and future established laws which would limit the power of this law. 

59 minutes ago, Daveeede said:

Hey look Montreal is in the news!

 

Hey look another scandal in Montreal!

 

No surprises. I personally wouldn't trust a writer for La Presse/JDM further than I can throw him. If Federal law allows this to happen, then it shouldn't really be news. The police had warrants so technically they were allowed to track the journalists. Is it ethically ok? Probably not, but the law allows it so I don't see the big fuss. Maybe the journalists in question were doing some shady AF stuff.

Just because it's a federal law doesn't mean it's either right (ethically, morally) or constitutional. To suggest that just because it's a law means it's okay is... terrible, to be frank.