California Energy Commission’s Proposed Regulations on Personal Computers Poses Threat to Prebuilt Gaming Desktops and Gaming Monitors

[eyecantseeover24fps]

http://deliddedtech.com/2016/09/12/california-energy-commissions-proposed-regulations-on-personal-computers-poses-threat-to-prebuilt-gaming-desktops-and-gaming-monitors/

Quote

In a move to reduce power consumption and protect the environment, the California Energy Commission has proposed a series of regulations intended to reduce the idle power consumption of personal computers, as well as the overall power consumption of monitors.

I'm kind of worried that the regulations will backfire and just result in computers/monitors costing more, without actually improving power efficiency. Having seen the devastating unforeseen consequences of regulation before, I can totally see companies finding ways to circumvent these regulations in ways that drive up costs without improving power efficiency. For example, including meaningless hardware that raises the classification of the device without improving its performance or quality.

 

The best comparison I can make is the sugar tariff in the United States resulting in us getting horrible Pepsi/Coke made with high fructose corn syrup instead of real sugar. Seriously, if you tried pepsi/coke made with sugar, its 100x better. But they use this corn syrup garbage to avoid taxes on sugar.

I can see something similar happening with computers. Instead of improving power efficiency to meet regulations, they instead try to circumvent regulations by adding in components like more USB hubs that change the classification of the device to allow more power consumption, driving up costs while providing no benefit to power efficiency, simply because it's cheaper than conforming to power efficiency standards.

What are your thoughts on this?

[Syntaxvgm]

It's a wonder I only have cancer in California. 

[Admiral Naismith]

If California could fucking not, that'd be great.

[BrinkGG]

Well... Crap. 

*Sitting here with my Dell monitor eating 150w*

California does have a legitimate issue with this though. $300 a month for electricity in my house is totally normal... And power inverters/transformers seem to die all the time. 

[Enderman]

They'll probably require all power supplied to be 80+ certified or something like that.

Not a big deal, most people already use PSUs that are that efficient or more.

[Syntaxvgm]

Btw, I'd like to point out this is a state where solar power and battery banks, putting power back in to the grid is popular.

 

I'll use however electricity I damn well please, especially if I'm making it. 

Dumbasses. 

[BuckGup]

I think they should step back and see our power demand hasn't grown in the past 7 years. Or how whole countries like Costa Rica are running off 100% renewable resources or like green land, garbage and volcanoes 

[Mark77]

Knowing how things usually go down in California, they'll force the vendors to use Intel's TDP-limiting features to de-rate the CPU to some awful extent only for California. 

 

Of course, once this happens, it will emerge that some vendors are providing over-rides or actually selling machines into California without the California de-rates applied. 

 

So California will tighten things up even more, requiring GPS verification that a computer is not within California before enabling the higher TDP modes.  Hence, every pre-built machine sold into California will require an on-board GPS in its circuitry.  Driving up the cost by another $50-$100. 

 

When people evade that by, for example, unplugging the antennas, there will be annual computer inspections where you have to take your computer in, and some inspector "verifies" that the antennas are wired, and the GPS correctly is receiving the computer's present coordinates. 

 

 

[Syntaxvgm]

1 minute ago, Mark77 said:

Knowing how things usually go down in California, they'll force the vendors to use Intel's TDP-limiting features to de-rate the CPU to some awful extent only for California. 

 

Of course, once this happens, it will emerge that some vendors are providing over-rides or actually selling machines into California without the California de-rates applied. 

 

So California will tighten things up even more, requiring GPS verification that a computer is not within California before enabling the higher TDP modes.  Hence, every pre-built machine sold into California will require an on-board GPS in its circuitry.  Driving up the cost by another $50-$100. 

 

When people evade that by, for example, unplugging the antennas, there will be annual computer inspections where you have to take your computer in, and some inspector "verifies" that the antennas are wired, and the GPS correctly is receiving the computer's present coordinates. 

 

 

Quote

I am Governor Jerry Brown
My aura smiles
And never frowns
Soon I will be president...

Carter Power will soon go away
I will be Fuhrer one day
I will command all of you
Your kids will meditate in school
Your kids will meditate in school!

California Uber Alles
California Uber Alles
Uber Alles California
Uber Alles California

Zen fascists will control you
100% natural
You will jog for the master race
And always wear the happy face

Close your eyes, can't happen here
Big Bro' on white horse is near
The hippies won't come back you say
Mellow out or you will pay
Mellow out or you will pay!

California Uber Alles
California Uber Alles
Uber Alles California
Uber Alles California

Now it is 1984
Knock-knock at your front door
It's the suede/denim secret police

Song comes to mind, Jerry Brown being governor again and all 

[eyecantseeover24fps]

4 minutes ago, Enderman said:

They'll probably require all power supplied to be 80+ certified or something like that.

Not a big deal, most people already use PSUs that are that efficient or more.

Most systems will have strict limitations on their weighted idle power consumption based on their 'expandability' scores.

High end systems that manage to be classified as 'high-expandability' will require a 600w or higher power supply that is classified as 80+ GOLD. The article outlines the difficulties in obtaining a classification of 'high-expandability'.

[Enderman]

3 minutes ago, eyecantseeover24fps said:

Most systems will have strict limitations on their weighted idle power consumption based on their 'expandability' scores.

High end systems that manage to be classified as 'high-expandability' will require a 600w or higher power supply that is classified as 80+ GOLD. The article outlines the difficulties in obtaining a classification of 'high-expandability'.

That's good, will force people to get better quality power supplies that are not fire hazards.

Idle power for most high end gaming computers is already like 50W so that's good (unless you use AMD haha)

[Citadelen]

Instead of regulations grants should be given to companies to persuade them to focus on making their products more efficient. Off the top of my head I know AMD has been trying hard with efficiency recently.

[Nowak]

California, can you please not?

[SansVarnic]

Sounds like a supreme court case to me...

California: the state of "we don't give two shits what you think, we'll tell you how to live anyway and if you think the Constitution means anything out here well have we got news for you".

 

So so sad. This why I live Iowa.

[Trik'Stari]

1 hour ago, Syntaxvgm said:

Btw, I'd like to point out this is a state where solar power and battery banks, putting power back in to the grid is popular.

 

I'll use however electricity I damn well please, especially if I'm making it. 

Dumbasses. 

Last time I checked, California was basically doing nothing to force power companies to allow that, and actively helping them fight any regulations/laws that would require the companies to allow people to do that.

[Syntaxvgm]

5 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Last time I checked, California was basically doing nothing to force power companies to allow that, and actively helping them fight any regulations/laws that would require the companies to allow people to do that.

oh I thought that cali was one of the states that allowed that. Still a lot of solar power. 

[Sakkura]

At least it's only prebuilts.

[AresKrieger]

First they came for the prebuilts

Then they came for AMD

Now we will not be gaming on our PC

 

[zMeul]

sensationalists title is sensationalist - California's Energy Commission wants to reduce IDLE power draw

Quote

By requiring technology that reduces idle power draw (like more efficient power supplies), the Commission estimates that it could cut about 1,636 gigawatt-hours of electricity use per year in California, or just under a third of the state's PC energy consumption.

 

[ivan134]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

sensationalists title is sensationalist - California's Energy Commission wants to reduce IDLE power draw

 

You are right but it's comical that you're accusing someone else of sensationalism

[Blake]

3 hours ago, eyecantseeover24fps said:

http://deliddedtech.com/2016/09/12/california-energy-commissions-proposed-regulations-on-personal-computers-poses-threat-to-prebuilt-gaming-desktops-and-gaming-monitors/

I'm kind of worried that the regulations will backfire and just result in computers/monitors costing more, without actually improving power efficiency. Having seen the devastating unforeseen consequences of regulation before, I can totally see companies finding ways to circumvent these regulations in ways that drive up costs without improving power efficiency. For example, including meaningless hardware that raises the classification of the device without improving its performance or quality.

 

The best comparison I can make is the sugar tariff in the United States resulting in us getting horrible Pepsi/Coke made with high fructose corn syrup instead of real sugar. Seriously, if you tried pepsi/coke made with sugar, its 100x better. But they use this corn syrup garbage to avoid taxes on sugar.

I can see something similar happening with computers. Instead of improving power efficiency to meet regulations, they instead try to circumvent regulations by adding in components like more USB hubs that change the classification of the device to allow more power consumption, driving up costs while providing no benefit to power efficiency, simply because it's cheaper than conforming to power efficiency standards.

What are your thoughts on this?

Except this entire space is driven by consumers and enterprise wanting to cut back on electricity expenses. Look at the data center, virtualization and cloud computing. The industry is already moving in the green direction.

 

I'll ignore the fructose/sugar thing, because being in Australia, my opinion is the opposite (probs because i don't consumer the syrup very often).

 

 

[Blake]

3 hours ago, Syntaxvgm said:

I'll use however electricity I damn well please, especially if I'm making it. 

Dumbasses. 

You seem to have completely missed the point. This is saying "going forward, new devices wont wastes as much power, if you want a powerful system you need to have a gold certified PSU and when your system is asleep it can use not more then Xw and Xw when turned off" It wont affect you at all, as in these states your not using you computer (not using as you have hit the power button with the intent to not use it, not as in walked away while waiting for a YouTube video to buffer).

[ionbasa]

2 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Last time I checked, California was basically doing nothing to force power companies to allow that, and actively helping them fight any regulations/laws that would require the companies to allow people to do that.

AB327. The California Public Utilities Commission is actually against NEM, they try to claim that it would cost non-solar power users more in fees, but other studies conflict with the CPUC.

2 hours ago, Syntaxvgm said:

oh I thought that cali was one of the states that allowed that. Still a lot of solar power. 

It is. I have my own Solar System (Installed by myself, 100% Owner operated). The power utilities gives you options on either NEM (Net Energy Metering) or Generation interconnects. I have NEM, basically, I feed excess power back into the grid, and I'm only charged however many KWh I use. If I produce more than I consume, then every 12 calendar months I get either check back or credit applied to my account.

---

Of note, is that the CEC is specifically referring to IDLE power draw, not under load. Some of the metrics are a bit convoluted in my opinon (classification based on GPU memory bandwidth), it would have just been easier if they called for  OEMs to straight up use 80+ Gold or higher PSUs.

[Energycore]

The premise is good. Decrease the power consumption of devices in order to decrease our ambient footprint.
 But the commission has to execute this law correctly. Just like OP said, they have to not pull a sugar tariff on us.

 

(Like WTF, corn syrup is worse than sugar they should tax that as well. A couple years ago up here they added VAT on soft drinks and life just went on, no economy crisis no nothing).

[Syntaxvgm]

8 minutes ago, Blake said:

You seem to have completely missed the point. This is saying "going forward, new devices wont wastes as much power, if you want a powerful system you need to have a gold certified PSU and when your system is asleep it can use not more then Xw and Xw when turned off" It wont affect you at all, as in these states your not using you computer (not using as you have hit the power button with the intent to not use it, not as in walked away while waiting for a YouTube video to buffer).

I want my power supply to waste as much power as the cars in mad max waste gas, both being for no good reason seeing the advantages of not doing so.