Low image quality on newer GPUs

[daraga123]

Soon i will record witcher 3 and show all settings.Then if somone tell me this is normal he is simply stupid. (no offence MEC 777 but you are telling me that shimmering textures and white bars on edges of everything is normal is like saying shit is white man)

[FruitBasketSilex]

The graphics do lower in quality after some time with nvidia cards. With my first newer card, the gtx 960 I gave this the benefit of the doubt. After that I got an gt 610 for testing purposes and then the gtx 750 ti and it happened on both of them. Graphics look fantastic for the first few days, increased draw distance in all games, no temporal aliasing visible, then after two weeks everything goes to shit again. Two weeks is the timeframe I noticed on all three cards.

I think that if nvidia didn't prop up the image quality somehow for the first two weeks, no one would've even noticed this. Now I've seen that it's possible for the graphics to be a lot better and am wondering what exactly the limiting factor is. There must be one because I can't imagine any company would do this on purpose.

Shall I tell you something funny? Look at this post I made a while ago:

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/373591-which-of-this-4-cards-would-be-the-best-choice/ (Scroll down a little to see my post)

This was when I first got my gtx 960 and was happy because the graphics looked great. Understand that I have no reason to make any of this up.

It would make absolutely no sense for a graphics card to do that. What you're saying is wrong, is litteraly impossible.

Your graphics quality can't just automatically lower itself. In order to do so, NVIDIA would have to program into the firmware, 1: a way to pull the system time at first use 2: code to automatically cut all rendering resolutions down, cut down all aa/af settings, and on top of that, make it all override the computers settings it is being given.

On top of that, it would make zero sense for NVIDIA to be doing it to push out more new gen cards, since its happening on your 960. (Which is the newest gen)

[Demiqas]

It would make absolutely no sense for a graphics card to do that. What you're saying is wrong, is litteraly impossible.

Your graphics quality can't just automatically lower itself. In order to do so, NVIDIA would have to program into the firmware, 1: a way to pull the system time at first use 2: code to automatically cut all rendering resolutions down, cut down all aa/af settings, and on top of that, make it all override the computers settings it is being given.

On top of that, it would make zero sense for NVIDIA to be doing it to push out more new gen cards, since its happening on your 960. (Which is the newest gen)

I've bought three nvidia cards and it happened on all three of them mate. I never implied nvidia did this to push newer gen cards.

 

I could just buy a simple cheap nvidia card just to prove a point, but I don't know what the quality of the recordings will be due to it being a low end card. Though, even then everyone will probably just claim I photoshopped it or blame the sudden graphical quality switch on "it's just an old game x-D".

[daraga123]

It would make absolutely no sense for a graphics card to do that. What you're saying is wrong, is litteraly impossible.

Your graphics quality can't just automatically lower itself. In order to do so, NVIDIA would have to program into the firmware, 1: a way to pull the system time at first use 2: code to automatically cut all rendering resolutions down, cut down all aa/af settings, and on top of that, make it all override the computers settings it is being given.

On top of that, it would make zero sense for NVIDIA to be doing it to push out more new gen cards, since its happening on your 960. (Which is the newest gen)

My problem started when i changed video card from gtx 650 to r9 280.I've played the same games on the same settings (gothic 3,AC3,AC4,fallout NV) on the same resolution 1920x1080 and on the old card everything looks a lot better than r9.And also i will connect old gtx to see if its r9 fault or meybe it'll be broken after i connected new r9?

[Tic-Tac]

It's a conspiracy by nVIDIA ! Lowering down quality of modern GPU's by injecting da NINJA CODE to sell Pascal ones!

[FruitBasketSilex]

I've bought three nvidia cards and it happened on all three of them mate. I never implied nvidia did this to push newer gen cards.

I could just buy a simple cheap nvidia card just to prove a point, but I don't know what the quality of the recordings will be due to it being a low end card. Though, even then everyone will probably just claim I photoshopped it or blame the sudden graphical quality switch on "it's just an old game x-D".

I'll just leave this here:

"I think that if nvidia didn't prop up the image quality somehow for the first two weeks, no one would've even noticed this."

[FruitBasketSilex]

My problem started when i changed video card from gtx 650 to r9 280.I've played the same games on the same settings (gothic 3,AC3,AC4,fallout NV) on the same resolution 1920x1080 and on the old card everything looks a lot better than r9.And also i will connect old gtx to see if its r9 fault or meybe it'll be broken after i connected new r9?

According to some of the crazies in this thread: "it'll borked your old card DUN DO IT!!!!!1"

Go ahead and give it a shot. I reccomend you have someone else do the switch, so you're not influenced by how much of a pain it is to switch it out. Even better, get a friend, and perform a blind test with two systems.

[MEC-777]

Soon i will record witcher 3 and show all settings.Then if somone tell me this is normal he is simply stupid. (no offence MEC 777 but you are telling me that shimmering textures and white bars on edges of everything is normal is like saying shit is white man)

 

It is entirely possible for what you are seeing to be normal. It will mostly likely depend on your specific settings. When you make the recording, please show the resolution and all in-game graphics settings (including post processing settings). Also make sure you record and upload with the highest quality you can. 

 

I want for someone to prove me wrong so this entire thread could actually have some meaning. So by all means, please show me what I have not yet seen. 

[FruitBasketSilex]

I want for someone to prove me wrong so this entire thread could actually have some meaning. So by all means, please show me what I have not yet seen.

Yep. This thread is a joke until people cn stop aimlessly complaining and actually come up with some proof that there is a real problem. Until then, there ain't jack shit we can do.

[Demiqas]

I'll just leave this here:

"I think that if nvidia didn't prop up the image quality somehow for the first two weeks, no one would've even noticed this."

They propped up the graphics which is exactly the case as I've been trying to explain. Nowhere did I imply that it was done to push the newer gen. In the OP I even stated that this has been going on for quite a while now.

[App4that]

It is entirely possible for what you are seeing to be normal. It will mostly likely depend on your specific settings. When you make the recording, please show the resolution and all in-game graphics settings (including post processing settings). Also make sure you record and upload with the highest quality you can. 

 

I want for someone to prove me wrong so this entire thread could actually have some meaning. So by all means, please show me what I have not yet seen. 

You have the patience of a saint. Just wanted you to know.

[daraga123]

I'll have some time at the start of the weekend so i will try to record w3 then.I got a question tho.What program should i use and what should i do after recording.Never recorded anything before.I got no time for tutorials so i hope somone can tell me what to do in one text.

[FruitBasketSilex]

You have the patience of a saint. Just wanted you to know.

Absolutely agree. I would've peaced out after the first two pages of endless, proofless complaining.

[FruitBasketSilex]

They propped up the graphics which is exactly the case as I've been trying to explain. Nowhere did I imply that it was done to push the newer gen. In the OP I even stated that this has been going on for quite a while now.

Now please, tell me why they would do that, hmmm?

[VagabondWraith]

This thread still going? lol smdh

[MEC-777]

I'll have some time at the start of the weekend so i will try to record w3 then.I got a question tho.What program should i use and what should i do after recording.Never recorded anything before.I got no time for tutorials so i hope somone can tell me what to do in one text.

 

What GPU do you have? If you have a 900 series Nvidia GPU, just use ShadowPlay. It's really easy. Also, remember you only need a short video clip. Just long enough to show your in-game settings and some gameplay footage showing the graphical anomalies you're referring to as unusual. 

 

If you have an AMD GPU, you could try using the Raptr app which is kind of like ShadowPlay, but take a bit of a performance hit. 

 

 

You have the patience of a saint. Just wanted you to know.

 

Just trying to get to the bottom of the "problem", if there is such a thing.

 

They propped up the graphics which is exactly the case as I've been trying to explain. 

 

How on earth would they have accomplished this and for what purpose? When you think about what it would take to do so (have a GPU purposely degrade image quality over time), you'll realize how unlikely that sounds. 

[vanished]

You're telling me that this is NORMAL? Also those jagged textures are dancing all time LOL! It looks to me that AF is probably broken!

 

*snip*

 

@MEC-777

 

Remember this pic of GTA V (I believe) showing a red car with particularly bad aliasing around the edge?  Well, something never quite sat right with me about it and so I decided to investigate the image a bit more using photoshop.  I did not know what would happen and had no preferred outcome honestly, but I knew one thing for certain: it would put to bed the argument over whether this is just normal aliasing due to insufficient pixel density, or if there is something else at play here.

 

I've posted my work below.  Please click it and view at 100% or the impact is lost

 

On the left you see a clipping of the original image, and below it a zoomed in version showing each pixel.

On the right, you see that same image, with one modification.  I drew a line over the trouble area just to see what would happen.  If it looked more or less the same, I would have concluded that this is normal and everyone should just calm down and forget this whole thing.  If it came out looking much better, it proves that - even at this resolution - the image can look better, and thus has no reason not to, and thus that there is in fact a problem here.

 

I'd like to hear what you think about the two (well, 4) images, but my conclusion is that it clearly can look far better.  Therefore low resolution is not the cause of this and it is in fact not "normal aliasing".  Normal aliasing (whatever "aliasing" is left after all available anti-aliasing has been applied) is what you see in the right image; smooth, but not perfect (you can still clearly see the stepping and pixelation, though it is smooth).  So, why is this happening?

 

(I'm not trying to call out anyone or insult anyone, just presenting what I think are interesting findings and would like to keep the dialogue going)

[MEC-777]

This thread still going? lol smdh

 

Unfortunately yes. It should have ended many pages ago, but some are still insisting there is a real "problem" beyond what several of us have pointed out and shown to actually be normal. If people want to provide plausible evidence, let's see it. 

[MEC-777]

@MEC-777

 

Remember this pic of GTA V (I believe) showing a red car with particularly bad aliasing around the edge?  Well, something never quite sat right with me about it and so I decided to investigate the image a bit more using photoshop.  I did not know what would happen and had no preferred outcome honestly, but I knew one thing for certain: it would put to bed the argument over whether this is just normal aliasing due to insufficient pixel density, or if there is something else at play here.

 

I've posted my work below.  Please click it and view at 100% or the impact is lost

 

On the left you see a clipping of the original image, and below it a zoomed in version showing each pixel.

On the right, you see that same image, with one modification.  I drew a line over the trouble area just to see what would happen.  If it looked more or less the same, I would have concluded that this is normal and everyone should just calm down and forget this whole thing.  If it came out looking much better, it proves that - even at this resolution - the image can look better, and thus has no reason not to, and thus that there is in fact a problem here.

 

I'd like to hear what you think about the two (well, 4) images, but my conclusion is that it clearly can look far better.  Therefore low resolution is not the cause of this and it is in fact not "normal aliasing".  Normal aliasing (whatever "aliasing" is left after all available anti-aliasing has been applied) is what you see in the right image; smooth, but not perfect (you can still clearly see the stepping and pixelation, though it is smooth).  So, why is this happening?

 

(I'm not trying to call out anyone or insult anyone, just presenting what I think are interesting findings and would like to keep the dialogue going)

 

See, this is what we need. People who actually take the time to analyze and look into what's actually going on. I don't have Photoshop to do something like this, so thanks for taking the time to do this and for posting up your findings.

 

What we need to know now is what in-game setting were being used when that original screenshot was taken. @Tic-Tac - can you please tell us or screenshot all your game settings you had when you captured that image? 

 

I'm going to avoid any speculation until we have that information.

 

However, what we can conclude is that yes, the AA could be improved further, as you demonstrated, and by quite a bit. The only speculation I will make at this point is that if this original image was captured using the highest in-game AA settings (8x MSAA + FXAA + TXAA) then we can conclude that this is the best the in-game AA filters (as designed and implemented by the devs) can do with the image quality and can be considered "normal" for this particular game.  

 

Here are two images I took in GTA V just a moment ago. I'm running 1080p very high settings, FXAA on and 4xMSAA. The first image is with TXAA off and the 2nd is with TXAA on. See if you can throw these in Photoshop and take a closer look at the hood of the black car closest to the character. I had a hard time finding the right lighting and location that showed a similar kind of aliasing effect to that other image posted by Tic-Tac. 

 

TXAA off:

http://i.imgur.com/iRbb02n.png

 

 

TXAA on:

http://i.imgur.com/iEOqqba.png

 

(Included the links in case the images didn't embed properly). 

[xAcid9]

^ GTA5 have resolution scaling in Advanced Graphic, i tried to play at 1800p and then scale 2.5x, it crashed.  :lol: Apparently i need 7.6GB of VRAM at that resolution.

[vanished]

*snip*

Just A-B-ing them back and forth, I can tell (and you don't need any special program for this) the TXAA one does look better, but it's not by much (it's still pretty rough).

 

Below is a "difference" between the two.  Any pixels that were identical in the first and second are black, with a greater degree of difference resulting in being brighter below.  Obviously some of this is due to movement (on Michael for example) but you can clearly see the difference TXAA makes in the edges.  That said, it could be much better (see the image below that which has been touched up by me again).

[212th]

but you can clearly see the difference TXAA makes in the edges.  That said, it could be much better (see the image below that which has been touched up by me again).

Yeah, but it doesn't do as much as it should do. You can see some improvement for the car, but there are none for the background.

[Tic-Tac]

 @Tic-Tac - can you please tell us or screenshot all your game settings you had when you captured that image? 

 

 

 

I have posted all my video setting for GTA V in this thread.

 

Here you go : http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/499767-low-image-quality-on-newer-gpus/page-26#entry6931931

[MEC-777]

Just A-B-ing them back and forth, I can tell (and you don't need any special program for this) the TXAA one does look better, but it's not by much (it's still pretty rough).

 

Below is a "difference" between the two.  Any pixels that were identical in the first and second are black, with a greater degree of difference resulting in being brighter below.  Obviously some of this is due to movement (on Michael for example) but you can clearly see the difference TXAA makes in the edges.  That said, it could be much better (see the image below that which has been touched up by me again).

 

Thanks again for the analysis.

 

Since I'm not running the highest possible AA setting in the game (that would be 8xMSAA), I think we should wait and see what the setting were that @Tic-Tac was using in the image he captured. I know how I would like to conclude this, but I need to wait for that information first to be sure. So, while the image quality in these two examples can be improved upon (via Photoshop), we need to first see an example using the highest possible AA settings in the game to see if that is enough to bring the image quality close to or match that of your Photoshop'd image.

 

I would take a screenshot using 8xMSAA but the last time I tried to apply that setting, the game just crashed (required too much Vram). 

[MEC-777]

I have posted all my video setting for GTA V in this thread.

 

Here you go : http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/499767-low-image-quality-on-newer-gpus/page-26#entry6931931

 

Awesome. Thanks.  

 

Ok, now we can start to draw some conclusions. Tic-Tac is using 2xMSAA with TXAA off. In my screenshots with 4xMSAA, even with TXAA off, there is noticeably less aliasing throughout the image.

 

With the settings you're using, which is a lower level of AA filtering, I would say; yes that is "normal" to see that amount of aliasing.  

 

I would hypothesize and be willing to bet that at 8xMSAA the image quality would be much more like @Ryan_Vickers Photoshop'd images.