Smoking Barrels - LTT's Unnofficial Gun Club!

[knightslugger]

3 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Not entirely. The Bill of Rights guarantees you the right to defend yourself, but doesn't strip the responsibility of protection from the government. It's for defense both for your person, and against a tyrannical government, and that's the end of it.

The government's job at protecting it's citizens is from foreign invasion and threats from other countries. That power has no bearing on actively protecting citizens from other citizens. The best they can do is write a law saying this activity is illegal, and enforce it when it is broken. The Federal government does not patrol the streets.

 

The bill of rights states that as a man (meaning human) you are entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of whatever it is you consider happiness. You have a right to your life. Naturally, defense of that life is inferred.

[RollTime]

8 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

well i guess if we're going full retard on politics...

 

It should have been called "March Full of Lies". These children have no idea what life is like as an adult. None whatsoever. They have been protected by their parents for the first 18 years of their lives. As an adult YOU are now responsible for your own protection. The bill of rights guarantees it, and the 2nd amendment strips the power of the government to take means of self defense away from you. THAT'S WHAT IT'S FOR! Why is that so hard to understand for these people? You are responsible for your own defense. Why people don't carry more (or more often), baffles me. One punch is all it takes to end one's life. We've seen it done in "polar Bear Challenges" before. Some don't NEED a tool to take a life. Personally, i couldn't throw a punch if my life was in the balance. That's why I carry. It is my threat equalizer.

 

Moreover... it's funded by left ideologues. Tell me... If this "march" was spontaneous... how did hundreds of thousands of children get to Washington DC? They take a bus? Get their parents to drop them off? Walk? Hitchhike? please. This is Soros Inc written all over it. Never mind their warped perception of gun crime. FBI statistics simply don't agree with their statements. I forget the exact percentage, but you have a 25 times higher likelihood to die under the knife at a hospital than you are from a mass shooting. I mean the numbers are just ridiculous.

You seem to be basing your arguments off of an assumption that guns do more good than harm. This isn't really something quantifiable, but here are some statistics from gun deaths in the U.S. vs. those in other countries.

And the march was anything but spontaneous. It was planned for months, and happened not only in DC but all over the country. 

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, knightslugger said:

The Federal government does not patrol the streets.

That's the job of the police. A tool of our government.

 

A job that they don't do.

[RollTime]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

That's the job of the police. A tool of our government.

 

A job that they don't do.

I would say they do. Are you suggesting the police don't patrol? In my city they do, and i assumed that was most places. Please tell me if I was misinformed.

[knightslugger]

2 minutes ago, RollTime said:

You seem to be basing your arguments off of an assumption that guns do more good than harm. This isn't really something quantifiable, but here are some statistics from gun deaths in the U.S. vs. those in other countries.

And the march was anything but spontaneous. It was planned for months, and happened not only in DC but all over the country. 

Only one of those countries have not known a time to be ruled by a tyrannical government.

[Drak3]

Just now, RollTime said:

I would say they do. Are you suggesting the police don't patrol? In my city they do, and i assumed that was most places. Please tell me if I was misinformed.

Largely no, the police no longer patrol, beyond on the highway to write tickets.

 

And given the events of Parkland, I have no issue or hesitation in saying that those officers of the law, refused to do their jobs.

[RollTime]

Just now, knightslugger said:

Only one of those countries have not known a time to be ruled by a tyrannical government.

Here's another.

[knightslugger]

That's the same chart, just with bigger numbers.

 

[RollTime]

1 minute ago, knightslugger said:

That's the same chart, just with bigger numbers.

 

Can I see a source for that?

[knightslugger]

Just now, RollTime said:

Can I see a source for that?

http://iowafc.org/blog/2014/11/12/fbi-data-confirms-more-guns-do-not-mean-more-crime/

 

Here's the FBI table for number of deaths for selected causes.

[RollTime]

1 minute ago, knightslugger said:

http://iowafc.org/blog/2014/11/12/fbi-data-confirms-more-guns-do-not-mean-more-crime/

 

Here's the FBI table for number of deaths for selected causes.

That chart includes nothing about homicide by firearms, or homicide in general. Also, the murder rate decreasing has not been shown to have a significant corroboration firearms increasing. 

[knightslugger]

well here, read the whole report yourself then.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr66/nvsr66_06.pdf

 

Knew this was going to troll out of control. happens every damn time. this is why this kind of discussion isn't allowed here.

[RollTime]

3 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

well here, read the whole report yourself then.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr66/nvsr66_06.pdf

 

Knew this was going to troll out of control. happens every damn time. this is why this kind of discussion isn't allowed here.

I'm actually rather enjoying this, it's an actual discussion; which is rare. Anyway, this is what the report said:

Quote

The rate for firearm-related mortality increased 7.8% for males and 6.7% for females in 2015 from 2014. The age-adjusted death rate for non-Hispanic white males was 53.4% lower than for non-Hispanic black males and 78.2% higher than for Hispanic males. The rate for non-Hispanic white females was 5.3% lower than for non-Hispanic black females and 140.0% higher than for Hispanic females. Among the major race–ethnicity–sex groups, the ageadjusted death rates for injury by firearms increased significantly in 2015 from 2014 for non-Hispanic white males (4.0%), nonHispanic white females (5.9%), non-Hispanic black males (15.9%), non-Hispanic black females (11.8%), and Hispanic males (7.4%). The rate for Hispanic females did not change significantly

 

[knightslugger]

Just now, RollTime said:

I'm actually rather enjoying this, it's an actual discussion; which is rare. Anyway, this is what the report said:

 

no it's not. it's a factoid dick measuring contest, as it always is with this sort of "discussion". You've got charts, I've got charts. they can be used to disprove the other side by tweaking the same data. If you ever want to have a job where you are never wrong, consider majoring in statistics, which is why i roll my eyes every time someone calls a statistics debate a "discussion". This is not a discussion.

 

What i can tell you is from my own personal experience. Having a firearm saved my life, and the lives of at least 4 other people. Ask anyone who has successfully defended themselves from death or great bodily harm and they will tell you the exact same thing.

 

FWIW, homicide is legal when it's in self defense. Still counted as a death by use of a firearm.

[RollTime]

1 minute ago, knightslugger said:

no it's not. it's a factoid dick measuring contest, as it always is with this sort of "discussion". You've got charts, I've got charts. they can be used to disprove the other side by tweaking the same data. If you ever want to have a job where you are never wrong, consider majoring in statistics, which is why i roll my eyes every time someone calls a statistics debate a "discussion". This is not a discussion.

 

What i can tell you is from my own personal experience. Having a firearm saved my life, and the lives of at least 4 other people. Ask anyone who has successfully defended themselves from death or great bodily harm and they will tell you the exact same thing.

 

FWIW, homicide is legal when it's in self defense. Still counted as a death by use of a firearm.

Fair enough. FWIW,  a debate involving facts and statistics is still a debate, in my opinion (though not yours, it would seem). At the end of the day, though, I doubt either of us will convince the other. GG, and have a nice evening.

[kaiju_wars]

Oi.  If we're going to post pics of guns.

 

Got these both recently.  That's my compact on the bottom, my new concealed carry pistol.  

They asked on both accounts if I planned to conceal carry.  Naturally I said yes about the 1911 (well, M1991A1).  Since North Dakota has constitutional concealed carry, I don't need a license.  Since I didn't have a license, they actually had to submit the serial number to the federal government and let them know I planned to conceal carry it.  

 

[kaiju_wars]

1 hour ago, knightslugger said:

no it's not. it's a factoid dick measuring contest, as it always is with this sort of "discussion". You've got charts, I've got charts. they can be used to disprove the other side by tweaking the same data. If you ever want to have a job where you are never wrong, consider majoring in statistics, which is why i roll my eyes every time someone calls a statistics debate a "discussion". This is not a discussion.

 

What i can tell you is from my own personal experience. Having a firearm saved my life, and the lives of at least 4 other people. Ask anyone who has successfully defended themselves from death or great bodily harm and they will tell you the exact same thing.

 

FWIW, homicide is legal when it's in self defense. Still counted as a death by use of a firearm.

I'm not trying to continue the discussion, but I am adding something.  A firearm saved my life once also.  I was home alone one time and someone was trying to break in.  I grabbed my stepdad's shotgun and cocked it.  Our front door doesn't do the best at blocking out the sound.  Guy yelled, "I'm not getting blown away," or something to that affect after hearing it and ran off.  I don't remember verbatim what he said since this was five years ago.

[knightslugger]

35 minutes ago, kaiju_wars said:

I'm not trying to continue the discussion, but I am adding something.  A firearm saved my life once also.  I was home alone one time and someone was trying to break in.  I grabbed my stepdad's shotgun and cocked it.  Our front door doesn't do the best at blocking out the sound.  Guy yelled, "I'm not getting blown away," or something to that affect after hearing it and ran off.  I don't remember verbatim what he said since this was five years ago.

Well thank god you didn't have to shoot. I did. it'll still be fresh in my mind long after i start shitting my pants in public as an old man. Pretty sure it's one of those thing you just never will forget. I am glad that the experience has not only taught me, but solidified my resolve about what the 2A is and what it is for, and why we must never let our government take it away. had it not been for my right to keep and bear arms, i'd be in the ground. No other weapon could have done what i needed to have happen at that moment.

 

So how's the Hipoint carbine holding up? My brother had one years and years ago, during the Clinton AWB years. He tried to trade it to a big box store at the time and they flat out told him that it's too military looking and that they wouldn't touch it. haha, a hipoint carbine TOO MILITARY LIKE. knowing what i know now, i can only shake my head and wonder what the world looks like through eyes like that. Must be bat country for them.

[Poohy14]

9 hours ago, kaiju_wars said:

Oi.  If we're going to post pics of guns.

~snip~

Got these both recently.  That's my compact on the bottom, my new concealed carry pistol.  

They asked on both accounts if I planned to conceal carry.  Naturally I said yes about the 1911 (well, M1991A1).  Since North Dakota has constitutional concealed carry, I don't need a license.  Since I didn't have a license, they actually had to submit the serial number to the federal government and let them know I planned to conceal carry it.  

 

What caliber is the Hi-Point Carbine? I love mine and never had a issue with it (surprisingly). Runs any ammo I throw at it and mine is a .45 ACP.

[Slumberjack]

Oh hey a gun thread, didn't expect to stumble on this once I finally went wandering the forums...

 

 

[kaiju_wars]

10 hours ago, knightslugger said:

Well thank god you didn't have to shoot. I did. it'll still be fresh in my mind long after i start shitting my pants in public as an old man. Pretty sure it's one of those thing you just never will forget. I am glad that the experience has not only taught me, but solidified my resolve about what the 2A is and what it is for, and why we must never let our government take it away. had it not been for my right to keep and bear arms, i'd be in the ground. No other weapon could have done what i needed to have happen at that moment.

 

So how's the Hipoint carbine holding up? My brother had one years and years ago, during the Clinton AWB years. He tried to trade it to a big box store at the time and they flat out told him that it's too military looking and that they wouldn't touch it. haha, a hipoint carbine TOO MILITARY LIKE. knowing what i know now, i can only shake my head and wonder what the world looks like through eyes like that. Must be bat country for them.

I’m glad I didn’t have to either and hope I never have to 

2 hours ago, Poohy14 said:

What caliber is the Hi-Point Carbine? I love mine and never had a issue with it (surprisingly). Runs any ammo I throw at it and mine is a .45 ACP.

 

Haven’t got to fire it yet, local range closed down and the closest one requires a membership.

my boss lets me shoot on his property since he’s out of town, I’m hoping to take it out this weekend or next.

Its 9mm, btw

[Slumberjack]

48 minutes ago, kaiju_wars said:

I’m glad I didn’t have to either and hope I never have to 

 

Haven’t got to fire it yet, local range closed down and the closest one requires a membership.

my boss lets me shoot on his property since he’s out of town, I’m hoping to take it out this weekend or next.

Its 9mm, btw

I had a 9mm hi-point carbine about 10 years ago, pretty fun little gun. Pretty sure they are illegal here in NY these days, hilariously.

[kaiju_wars]

24 minutes ago, Slumberjack said:

I had a 9mm hi-point carbine about 10 years ago, pretty fun little gun. Pretty sure they are illegal here in NY these days, hilariously.

How?

[Slumberjack]

1 minute ago, kaiju_wars said:

How?

NY State's ridiculous SAFE act that was pushed into place 5 years ago, any semi-auto rifle must either be "feature-less", or has to have a non-detachable magazine. Banned features include things like pistol grips, any attachments besides optics, any kind of brake/compensator/flash hider, and a bunch of other nonsense, basically anything scary looking. Also the magazine can't fit into the grip, for some reason I have yet to puzzle out even 5 years later.

 

As the hi-point has a pistol grip, is semi-auto, and accepts magazines in the pistol grip, it's illegal to own here.

 

...yet I could walk into any gun shop and buy an M1A or a Mini-14

[kaiju_wars]

10 minutes ago, Slumberjack said:

NY State's ridiculous SAFE act that was pushed into place 5 years ago, any semi-auto rifle must either be "feature-less", or has to have a non-detachable magazine. Banned features include things like pistol grips, any attachments besides optics, any kind of brake/compensator/flash hider, and a bunch of other nonsense, basically anything scary looking. Also the magazine can't fit into the grip, for some reason I have yet to puzzle out even 5 years later.

 

As the hi-point has a pistol grip, is semi-auto, and accepts magazines in the pistol grip, it's illegal to own here.

 

...yet I could walk into any gun shop and buy an M1A or a Mini-14

Ah, that stupidity.  Yeah, I got into a debate with an ex over this today.  She finally conceded that yeah I was right, she just straight up didn't care and was going to lobby for my our rights to be taken away.