Pirates are successfully upgrading to Windows 10 for free

[Snickerzz]

Hold your horses peeps

im always holding my horses! Snuggles are the best

I was on non genuine windows but decided to buy a win8 key a month ago. Personally it makes me feel like a better person so I don't mind if the pirates get it for free.

[cragger89]

You can defer upgrades (MS term for the OS revisions which will take place instead of annual releases of brand new OS).

 

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-hk/windows-10/defer-upgrades-in-windows-10

 

Hot fixes I personally want installed ASAP.

 

Oh, you can also still disable the Windows Update service. So I really don't see what the fuss is about, there.

 

[79wjd]

 

I understand exactly what he is saying. It is why i responded the way i did. We do not know how long the guinea pigs will be testing the beta updates before they become released to the masses. For all we know, the common updates could come a month or two after the beta testers tested it. Since we lack this information, we cannot make a conclusive assumption on it.

 

If you read my entire post, i also agreed with the general consensus that updates should not be forced on everyone, and that people should be able to make choices at the cost of support.

My point, however, was that the beta testing group might not be large enough to effectively validate the integrity of an update -- hence why I think there also needs to be a period where it's available to the normal user without it being forced upon them. (also keep in mind, the beta environment isn't identical to the normal environment due to a different type of user or just different software). 

[LAwLz]

What option are you talking about? The Feedback and Diagnostics option? Because they are very clear on what they are collecting. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/feedback-diagnostics-privacy-faq

 

Setting it to basic only gives them the data they already collect anyways. Data that has been collected since as far back as Vista. I think you severely underestimate how long CEIP has been around, but overestimate what it does.

That's not very clear... They are very vague and using terms like "data that is vital to the operation of Windows". Why not give us a list of exactly what data they are collecting? That's what Cyanogenmod does (or at least did). They even allow(ed) you to see the entire report as a clear text file before sending it.

 

CEIP was opt-in (as in, off by default). This is on by default and there is no way to disable it unless you got the Enterprise edition.

Do you understand the difference?

 

 

Microsoft has been collecting data since the XP days, it's nothing new and I'm literally shocked about the reaction...  

If you care about your privacy and what information MS collections from you, why are you on windows and just now starting to complain? This is nothing new, they've been doing this literally for 14 years and probably older.

It has been opt-in since XP. This is the first time it's on by default and no way to disable it.

But you're right. If privacy is your top priority then you should stay away from Microsoft.

 

 

 

 

To everyone who mentions CEIP, I recommend you actually look into what it is.

 

How does CEIP work?

When you choose to participate in the CEIP, your computer or device automatically sends information to Microsoft about how you use certain products. Information from your computer is combined with other CEIP data to help Microsoft solve problems and to improve the products and features customers use most often.

 

 

If I choose to participate, can I opt out later?

Yes. For any released product with an option to participate in CEIP, you can choose to start or stop participating at any time. Most programs make CEIP options available from the Help menu, although for some products, you might need to check settings, options, or preferences menus. Some pre-release products that are under development might require participation in CEIP to help ensure the final release of the product improves frequently used features and solves common problems that exist in the pre-release software.

Source

[cragger89]

Well.... no, for theme stuff you yes can choose a theme but you can't change your wallpaper or even theme color in the desktop control panel, you have to use settings.

But yes, almost everything is in the Control panel, everything else was moved to the settings panel.

 

So? You can still change it. Someone in this thread is complaining about a lack of control. The control IS still there. I have never gone to the Control Panel to make a change to how my desktop is presented since I learnt to right click when I first bought a PC. I've always Right clicked the desktop, then hit properties or "Personalise" since Vista launched.

 

People are complaining about a lot of stuff which either does not matter or isn't even true.

[MageTank]

That's not very clear... They are very vague and using terms like "data that is vital to the operation of Windows". Why not give us a list of exactly what data they are collecting? That's what Cyanogenmod does (or at least did). They even allow(ed) you to see the entire report as a clear text file before sending it.

 

CEIP was opt-in (as in, off by default). This is on by default and there is no way to disable it unless you got the Enterprise edition.

Do you understand the difference?

 

 

It has been opt-in since XP. This is the first time it's on by default and no way to disable it.

But you're right. If privacy is your top priority then you should stay away from Microsoft.

 

 

 

 

To everyone who mentions CEIP, I recommend you actually look into what it is.

Source

That CEIP statement was last revised in 2009. To quote you from another thread:

 

 

 

That article about Microsoft getting the source code reviewed is 12 years old, and a lot has changed since then. For example Microsoft has entered the ad business and are far more interested in personal details now. Don't assume that Microsoft are exactly the same as they were 12 years ago.

 

Don't assume that Microsoft are exactly the same as they were 6 years ago. The wording of the CEIP and the data collection policy in windows 10 coincide with each other. Except now, like with updates, your choice in the matter is not a priority to them. Functionality appears to be exactly the same. I know what the CEIP is, i was the one that brought it up. You need not remind me to read something i already completely understand.

 

You have valid points on the subject, i will not refute that. Your knowledge of security, i respect it. However, you are overthinking it. People are no more at risk now, than what they were even a decade ago using vista or XP. The fact that more data is being collected will not change that. Data is collected on everything we do, and has been for a very long time. Not just in the form of technology. Here in the US, we get forms all the time regarding our wages, how many people are in our household, who they are, what they do, etc. We cannot escape this "big brother" fate. 

 

I know what you are going to say, so ill beat you to that point. "Just because everyone does it, does not make it okay". You are correct. It is not okay, but what exactly can be done about it? This is the world we live in. Information has a price, and the world was built on profiting off of others. I do not need to remind you of our history as human beings, i am certain you understand that fact. If MS is collecting data for the sake of profit, then it will not be any different than what they did with Bing, what Google does with their search engines, or what others do with their websites and engines. Regardless of what information is collected, none of it can be used against you in a court without the proper filings. If MS is not issued warrants or subpoenas for the collected information, it will have no impact on you legally. The worst you have to fear, is annoying ads.

 

Again, this is all making the assumption that you are right, and that every tid-bit of information is being combed through by some desk jockey that was employed for this sole purpose, along with potentially billions of other people doing the same thing, because its not like they are going to single you out. They will have to do it to everyone. Unless its automated, in which case, only the same information that has been collected for a decade will be collected again (browsing patterns, applications used, errors, etc).

 

Sorry for the wall of text in advanced. TL:DR? Welcome to 2015.

[linuxfan66]

That CEIP statement was last revised in 2009. To quote you from another thread:

Don't assume that Microsoft are exactly the same as they were 6 years ago. The wording of the CEIP and the data collection policy in windows 10 coincide with each other. Except now, like with updates, your choice in the matter is not a priority to them. Functionality appears to be exactly the same. I know what the CEIP is, i was the one that brought it up. You need not remind me to read something i already completely understand.

You have valid points on the subject, i will not refute that. Your knowledge of security, i respect it. However, you are overthinking it. People are no more at risk now, than what they were even a decade ago using vista or XP. The fact that more data is being collected will not change that. Data is collected on everything we do, and has been for a very long time. Not just in the form of technology. Here in the US, we get forms all the time regarding our wages, how many people are in our household, who they are, what they do, etc. We cannot escape this "big brother" fate.

I know what you are going to say, so ill beat you to that point. "Just because everyone does it, does not make it okay". You are correct. It is not okay, but what exactly can be done about it? This is the world we live in. Information has a price, and the world was built on profiting off of others. I do not need to remind you of our history as human beings, i am certain you understand that fact. If MS is collecting data for the sake of profit, then it will not be any different than what they did with Bing, what Google does with their search engines, or what others do with their websites and engines. Regardless of what information is collected, none of it can be used against you in a court without the proper filings. If MS is not issued warrants or subpoenas for the collected information, it will have no impact on you legally. The worst you have to fear, is annoying ads.

Again, this is all making the assumption that you are right, and that every tid-bit of information is being combed through by some desk jockey that was employed for this sole purpose, along with potentially billions of other people doing the same thing, because its not like they are going to single you out. They will have to do it to everyone. Unless its automated, in which case, only the same information that has been collected for a decade will be collected again (browsing patterns, applications used, errors, etc).

Sorry for the wall of text in advanced. TL:DR? Welcome to 2015.

When it comes to privacy people often close a dripping leak while leaving the nearby river of info flowing. And that's ignoring the things can't and never will hide ie law enforcement, tax, NSA, etc...

There is a reason I don't rabidly secures privacy for privacy's sake. You cannot get it without moving into a cave with no technology or human contact.

[flibberdipper]

Set it as a metered connection and you're golden.

Unfortunately, I'm the "IT" guy in that house and it's my duty to keep each computer working at its fullest. Therefore, disabling updates (since that's what you're more or less doing) is just kinda stupid for me.

[ChineseChef]

Nobody is being forced to be a guinea pig. The people that want windows 10 for free without having a valid license, are able to keep it for free as long as they stay in the insider program. These people are the ones that get the updates before everyone, and are testing them in exchange for a legitimate windows copy. I think it is a fair compromise. This also lets MS test updates before they are released to the masses that have valid, paid for keys. In theory, this should prevent scenario's that you've previously mentioned, from happening again. I do wish they still gave people the freedom of choice though. People should be allowed to make the decision on whether or  not they want their system to be secure and up to date. Not just enterprise users.

 

Are you saying that people who take the free upgrade are in the testing group?  I had not gotten that impression.  If it is the case that people taking the free upgrade are getting it free for essentially being testers, than I see nothing wrong with that.  And if paid users are able to opt to delay updates, that seems reasonable. 

 

I was under the impression that there was basically no difference between taking the free upgrade and buying a copy, other than having media so you can clean install without needing to upgrade an existing install.

[LAwLz]

-snip-

Pretty good post but I would like to argue against 1 thing.

 

 

That CEIP statement was last revised in 2009. To quote you from another thread:

 

Don't assume that Microsoft are exactly the same as they were 6 years ago. The wording of the CEIP and the data collection policy in windows 10 coincide with each other. Except now, like with updates, your choice in the matter is not a priority to them. Functionality appears to be exactly the same. I know what the CEIP is, i was the one that brought it up. You need not remind me to read something i already completely understand.

 

My quote is taken out of context and is being applied to a completely different scenario.

When I said "Don't assume that Microsoft are exactly the same as they were 12 years ago." it was as a response to someone digging up a 12 year old article saying Microsoft provided the source code for their OS to some government agency. That was a good thing they did 12 years ago but as far as I know we don't have any info about them doing it again since then.

Doing 1 good deed 12 years ago doesn't mean they are still good.

 

 

The quote doesn't make any sense in the context of CEIP though because your argument was "they have been doing it for years", but we know that it was optional in 2009, and the FAQ has not been changed since then which most likely means the functionality hasn't been changed. There is always the possibility that Microsoft has been harvesting personal information of Windows 8 users, bit at least I haven't heard of it. CEIP is not enabled on my Windows 7 install at least. Even if it was I would have had the option to leave it. That is not the case with Windows 10.

 

 

 

Personal blog thing nobody cares about:

I have ordered a new SSD and will be installing Windows 10 on it. I am still very displeased with some of the changes (updates and data harvesting) they have done and I am flat out angry at them for the way they have responded to some of the feedback (such as implementing transparency in 2/3 of the areas people wanted, and then just marked it as solved and closed it).

But I will give Windows 10 a fair change before I decide if benefits (of which there are many and big) are worth the drawbacks.

I would rather not go back to Windows 7 afterwards because it's a pain in the ass to reinstall stuff.

[othertomperson]

 

 

My point, however, was that the beta testing group might not be large enough to effectively validate the integrity of an update -- hence why I think there also needs to be a period where it's available to the normal user without it being forced upon them. (also keep in mind, the beta environment isn't identical to the normal environment due to a different type of user or just different software). 

 

 

They're also not beta testing Windows at this point but every driver and software update for every application installed by everyone on every Windows machine. Of course this isn't going to be covered by the beta testing group, the range of variables is far too disparate.

[MageTank]

Pretty good post but I would like to argue against 1 thing.

 

 

 

My quote is taken out of context and is being applied to a completely different scenario.

When I said "Don't assume that Microsoft are exactly the same as they were 12 years ago." it was as a response to someone digging up a 12 year old article saying Microsoft provided the source code for their OS to some government agency. That was a good thing they did 12 years ago but as far as I know we don't have any info about them doing it again since then.

Doing 1 good deed 12 years ago doesn't mean they are still good.

 

 

The quote doesn't make any sense in the context of CEIP though because your argument was "they have been doing it for years", but we know that it was optional in 2009, and the FAQ has not been changed since then which most likely means the functionality hasn't been changed. There is always the possibility that Microsoft has been harvesting personal information of Windows 8 users, bit at least I haven't heard of it. CEIP is not enabled on my Windows 7 install at least. Even if it was I would have had the option to leave it. That is not the case with Windows 10.

 

 

 

Personal blog thing nobody cares about:

I have ordered a new SSD and will be installing Windows 10 on it. I am still very displeased with some of the changes (updates and data harvesting) they have done and I am flat out angry at them for the way they have responded to some of the feedback (such as implementing transparency in 2/3 of the areas people wanted, and then just marked it as solved and closed it).

But I will give Windows 10 a fair change before I decide if benefits (of which there are many and big) are worth the drawbacks.

I would rather not go back to Windows 7 afterwards because it's a pain in the ass to reinstall stuff.

My quoting of you was more to show that they could have changed, like you yourself stated. It is hard for a company to remain the same even after a year or two, let alone half a decade or longer. The reason i even brought up the CEIP, is because (outside of the telemetry thing you brought up) the basic feedback setting collects exactly what the CEIP collects. The difference is that now it is not an optional feedback request. It is them taking what they feel they are entitled to, simply because Windows is their product. I agree with your efforts, but i do not share the same urgency as you. Perhaps i have a defeatist mentality for this subject, because swimming against the current is tiring after a while. I won't fault you for confirming information brought up by less reputable sources, and i will not fault you for trying to change what is easily considered a terrible policy. I wish you the best of luck in trying to bring change to these policies, but i just do not see it happening.

 

 

Are you saying that people who take the free upgrade are in the testing group?  I had not gotten that impression.  If it is the case that people taking the free upgrade are getting it free for essentially being testers, than I see nothing wrong with that.  And if paid users are able to opt to delay updates, that seems reasonable. 

 

I was under the impression that there was basically no difference between taking the free upgrade and buying a copy, other than having media so you can clean install without needing to upgrade an existing install.

No, the free upgrade from a valid previous windows installation is 100% genuine as long as you had a genuine key. If you do not have a genuine key, or do not have a previous windows license, you can still get windows 10 for free, but you will be put on a special Beta circuit. You will get windows 10 builds sooner than others, and will beta test updates on a less-stable version of windows if you fall into this category. If you updated from a valid genuine key, you have nothing to worry about.

[patrickjp93]

I understand why some people might feel like they have to pirate, for example if they cannot afford a copy of Windows 7 or 8.1 at all. However, for those who pirate just because it's an option should really just buy the OS, it's a one time purchase.

Hey, if you want piracy running rampant, look no farther than college textbooks, especially math, chemistry, and physics textbooks. I'd be spending $4500 a year on textbooks if I wasn't a savvy person. The whole market's a racket anyway unless it's a first edition textbook. When you get past the 4th edition of a book and look at the publication dates being every year or 2, you know it's a scam.

[mosin40]

I pirated windows 7 and 8 because after so many installs ( I nuke my system frequently)

I kinda did the same, i really like it when it's a fresh install  

[LAwLz]

My quoting of you was more to show that they could have changed, like you yourself stated. It is hard for a company to remain the same even after a year or two, let alone half a decade or longer. The reason i even brought up the CEIP, is because (outside of the telemetry thing you brought up) the basic feedback setting collects exactly what the CEIP collects. The difference is that now it is not an optional feedback request. It is them taking what they feel they are entitled to, simply because Windows is their product. I agree with your efforts, but i do not share the same urgency as you. Perhaps i have a defeatist mentality for this subject, because swimming against the current is tiring after a while. I won't fault you for confirming information brought up by less reputable sources, and i will not fault you for trying to change what is easily considered a terrible policy. I wish you the best of luck in trying to bring change to these policies, but i just do not see it happening.

It's sad to hear that you have given up because you don't think anything will change. Especially since we seem to agree that this is not a good thing.

Just remember, "The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing"

-Edmund Burke

 

I will continue to bitch and tell everyone how horrible it is until they (hopefully) change it for the better.

 

 

 

Hey, if you want piracy running rampant, look no farther than college textbooks, especially math, chemistry, and physics textbooks. I'd be spending $4500 a year on textbooks if I wasn't a savvy person. The whole market's a racket anyway unless it's a first edition textbook. When you get past the 4th edition of a book and look at the publication dates being every year or 2, you know it's a scam.

I love how they sometimes don't actually change the things written in the box. They just change the order things come in. A lot of courses I've taken says things like "you can find this on page 241 in the 5th edition, and page 197 in the 6th edition".

[SteveGrabowski0]

Hey, if you want piracy running rampant, look no farther than college textbooks, especially math, chemistry, and physics textbooks. I'd be spending $4500 a year on textbooks if I wasn't a savvy person. The whole market's a racket anyway unless it's a first edition textbook. When you get past the 4th edition of a book and look at the publication dates being every year or 2, you know it's a scam.

 

You can buy Indian editions of textbooks from eBay. They're not actually illegal, it's just that no one in India is going to pay $150 for acid free paper and beautiful hardcovers so the same publishers publish them as paperbacks. I have a few physics books I bought from India and the quality is better than say a Dover paperback. The big publishers tried to sue to disallow importing of textbooks from India but the Supreme Court told them to fuck off. The books will say they're only authorized for sale in India and neighboring countries, but it's an empty threat and they're 100% legal. Sometimes the publishers will change the order of homework problems for these international editions to try to dissuade American students from buying them, but worst case you compare problem numbers with a classmate who got suckered into buying the American editions. With how expensive technical books are I either buy them used off amazon or Indian editions off eBay (or bookfi if I can't find either). The Indian editions are usually around $20-$25 and these sellers make huge profits off them since I think they retail for about $7-$9 usually there. The only time I buy an American hardcover is if it's a book I truly love, like SICP, Purcell's E&M book, or Rudin's graduate analysis book.

[79wjd]

You can buy Indian editions of textbooks from eBay.

Good to know, although I still prefer a digital copy (which are still usually absurdly expensive....so arrr :unsure: )

[MageTank]

It's sad to hear that you have given up because you don't think anything will change. Especially since we seem to agree that this is not a good thing.

Just remember, "The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing"

-Edmund Burke

 

I will continue to bitch and tell everyone how horrible it is until they (hopefully) change it for the better.

 

"You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em"-Kenny Rogers

 

Everything in modern society is pushing towards full scale integration. From computers, televisions and even automobiles. Everything is wanting to "sync" and "talk" to each other, and provide a "seamless integration" with each other. This is even considered a feature on most new tech. These features however, are huge security risks, and the security aspect is often overlooked for the sake of easy use. No matter what you or I do, we cannot stop these "advancements". You can complain about it all you want, you can petition it and get all of the support you want, but what exactly is going to change? If they cannot get your information this way, they will do it in another form. Again, my defeatist attitude is counter-productive for your cause, so i apologize for that. I just do not see a favorable outcome from any of this. 

 

I do not know if you were around with the fuss was made about Geforce Experience collecting data for Nvidia too, and how little changed after that big fuss was made. The same goes for browsers collecting browsing patterns for ads and better search results. I believe there is a quote along the lines of sacrificing security for comfort, i just cannot for the life of me remember what it was. It is applicable here though, at least to the common consumer. People as knowledgeable as yourself will always be against these security flaws, but the average consumer is not that knowledgeable. 

 

EDIT: The quote i was looking for was " those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither"- Benjamin Franklin

[SteveGrabowski0]

Good to know, although I still prefer a digital copy (which are still usually absurdly expensive....so arrr :unsure: )

 

bookfi is cheap 

 

Arggghh if they had bookfi and android tablets when I was in school. I had to do it the old fashioned way: give my Chinese friend $50 at the Christmas break and have him come back with all my books for the next quarter. Either that, or just check out better books from the school library.

[79wjd]

I do not know if you were around with the fuss was made about Geforce Experience collecting data for Nvidia too, and how little changed after that big fuss was made. The same goes for browsers collecting browsing patterns for ads and better search results. I believe there is a quote along the lines of sacrificing security for comfort, i just cannot for the life of me remember what it was. It is applicable here though, at least to the common consumer. People as knowledgeable as yourself will always be against these security flaws, but the average consumer is not that knowledgeable.

NSA eavesdropping....or terrorist attacks...NSA eavesdropping...or terrorist attacks. I think I'll have to go with terrorist attacks, I enjoy my complete civil liberties, and unfortunately, while something this simply may seem like a good idea and not too impactful, it is slippery slope.

 

bookfi is cheap 

 

Arggghh if they had bookfi and android tablets when I was in school. I had to do it the old fashioned way: give my Chinese friend $50 at the Christmas break and have him come back with all my books for the next quarter. Either that, or just check out better books from the school library.

lol

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

Hey, if you want piracy running rampant, look no farther than college textbooks, especially math, chemistry, and physics textbooks. I'd be spending $4500 a year on textbooks if I wasn't a savvy person. The whole market's a racket anyway unless it's a first edition textbook. When you get past the 4th edition of a book and look at the publication dates being every year or 2, you know it's a scam.

I love how they sometimes don't actually change the things written in the box. They just change the order things come in. A lot of courses I've taken says things like "you can find this on page 241 in the 5th edition, and page 197 in the 6th edition".

You can buy Indian editions of textbooks from eBay. They're not actually illegal, it's just that no one in India is going to pay $150 for acid free paper and beautiful hardcovers so the same publishers publish them as paperbacks. I have a few physics books I bought from India and the quality is better than say a Dover paperback. The big publishers tried to sue to disallow importing of textbooks from India but the Supreme Court told them to fuck off. The books will say they're only authorized for sale in India and neighboring countries, but it's an empty threat and they're 100% legal. Sometimes the publishers will change the order of homework problems for these international editions to try to dissuade American students from buying them, but worst case you compare problem numbers with a classmate who got suckered into buying the American editions. With how expensive technical books are I either buy them used off amazon or Indian editions off eBay (or bookfi if I can't find either). The Indian editions are usually around $20-$25 and these sellers make huge profits off them since I think they retail for about $7-$9 usually there. The only time I buy an American hardcover is if it's a book I truly love, like SICP, Purcell's E&M book, or Rudin's graduate analysis book.

Good to know, although I still prefer a digital copy (which are still usually absurdly expensive....so arrr :unsure: )

 

Luckily for me, I get my textbooks digitally and free of charge as a small part of the tuition costs. B)

[MageTank]

NSA eavesdropping....or terrorist attacks...NSA eavesdropping...or terrorist attacks. I think I'll have to go with terrorist attacks, I enjoy my complete civil liberties, and unfortunately, while something this simply may seem like a good idea and not too impactful, it is slippery slope.

 

lol

Slippery slope? The slope was slippery years ago. Now it has been polished and covered in ice to the point where the slope is now being used for the Olympic Luge.

[Davehaslanded]

Is is possible that people who upgraded pirated versions would be automatically rolled into the 'testers', thus receiving beta builds alongside legit copy of windows?

This is my thinking. But i did have my 2nd PC on technical preview anyway. So i'm wondering if it just added my main pc to account

[Raudi_]

Actually, it isn't all pirates that were success at this. Many failed.

Good thing I was an insider and have access to a MSDN account.

[The Gaige]

Good thing I was an insider and have access to a MSDN account.

 

The strange thing is I have a MSDN account & I'm an insider but, I made this thread cause I support pirates cause I don't like big business in general!