Pirates are successfully upgrading to Windows 10 for free

[flibberdipper]

Because in general, you should never have to permanently stop updates outside of mission critical environments (Enterprise version). Is there any reason the average user needs to delay updates for more than 6 months? Outside of the tool, you still have the option to uninstall updates, and delay feature patches for a few months (while keep security patches enabled), so you know that it's been fully tested. It's a null-issue.

Hey genius: Maybe they're like my grandma, and if anything is downloaded that's larger than 50MB, her router stops dead in its tracks and locks up.

 

Not to mention that her internet is barely capable of playing the SIMPLEST 240p videos. And believe me, a lot of people have shitty DSL like her.

[MageTank]

 

You can opt out of all information sending afaik.

 

That is what i did. At the start of the setup, i went to "let me choose" and disabled all data collection that is to be done. Now, they could still be doing it behind my back, but i did opt out for all of that myself. People and their paranoia are starting to annoy me. These same people walk around with smartphones that have all of their information, including contacts, emails, GPS position, browsing history, etc and still have this fear over an OS. They act like this is any different than 8.1, when its not. Fundamentally, 10 is not that different from 8.1. If people would have read the fine print, they would know that this same collection has been going on in 8.1 and has not changed.

 

Instead, they will pretend its a giant conspiracy and act upon ignorance to sleep at night. Do not fear paranoid people, the government already knows who you are, where you are, and what you do. Your job now is to ensure they will need therapy upon seeing your browsing history.

[79wjd]

I don't think most people have knowledge about the data collection going on in Windows 10. Just look at all the denial going on in the 8chan thread.

So it's Microsoft's fault that people don't read the EULA/TOS that they agree to? Think about all the crap you agree to whenever you sign up/install anything...by that same logic everything you install is also probably spyware. 

[Kyuubixchidori]

My less then legal win 8.1 copy upgraded to legitimate windows 10 with zero input on my end. 

[typographie]

Jesus, what's with this forum's logic today?

"HOW DARE MICROSOFT FORCE ME TO PATCH ZERO-DAY EXPLOITS, UNACCEPTABLE, I WANT TO PERSONALLY DECIDE WHEN I FIX MY SECURITY HOLES"

 

I get the point, but that might be a sliiiiight mischaracterization. I just don't want it eating up my download bandwidth without my approval because, chances are, it will be when I'm trying to use that bandwidth for something else. I usually still install my updates the day I'm notified that they're available, but when I know it's not going to hurt my ping in games or cause my Youtube/Netflix video to buffer.

 

I don't think most people have knowledge about the data collection going on in Windows 10. Just look at all the denial going on in the 8chan thread.

I don't think those worried about data collection know much about it, either. If you can't prove it, it's just an insinuation.

[LAwLz]

That is what i did. At the start of the setup, i went to "let me choose" and disabled all data collection that is to be done. Now, they could still be doing it behind my back, but i did opt out for all of that myself.

They are. You can not opt out from telemetry data and Microsoft don't tell us what exactly they are collecting.

I don't think those worried about data collection know much about it, either. If you can't prove it, it's just an insinuation.

But it has been proven. You can go into the privacy setting and see it for yourself if you don't believe me.

[bogus]

This can be replicated in the drugs business, look at how much revenue the DEA get's to "crackdown" on dealers and cartels etc. There is a lot of money on both sides for a black market /piracy.

Yes I agree with you, yet piracy (namely media piracy) is a bit peculiar. The money made is not via direct sale to consumers or midlemen (like drugs... or contrafeit products) or it's not a product of third world countrys exploitation - piracy is free (at least in the p2p model)... you can say trackers profit from it indirectly from advertising and donations, but that's almost nothing in the big scheme of things.

What businesses fail to understand is that it's a way to reach out for people who is possibly interest in their product... you just need to "convert them" into paying customers, wich is way easier when you have a product in front of them - wich is fucking hard. Probably not in your first iteration of the product, since they despite showing interest to download they didn't have the purchase intent, or simply wouldn't buy the product anyway.

 

If the chance comes I'll add to a specific marketing strategy using trackers as a campaign driver

 

About Microsoft, think of it this way: they increased their Win10 userbase with pirate versions upgrades - now they just need to monetize them

[cesrai]

Hey genius: Maybe they're like my grandma, and if anything is downloaded that's larger than 50MB, her router stops dead in its tracks and locks up.

Not to mention that her internet is barely capable of playing the SIMPLEST 240p videos. And believe me, a lot of people have shitty DSL like her.

Set it as a metered connection and you're golden.

[Misanthrope]

By definition:

 

It's not spyware.

 

So full knowledge and consent = "Hey user, you have a free upgrade to windows 10 click here to download and proceed" and then some sort of EULA once you committed to the update.

 

Wow soon simply asking "Wait, what?" will qualify as informed consent then.

[othertomperson]

Oh stop nitpicking. Nothing has been sacrificed, that's a ridiculous statement. Replace "The average user" with "anyone outside of a business or mission critical environment" if you're gonna be like that.

 

Jesus, what's with this forum's logic today?

"HOW DARE MICROSOFT FORCE ME TO PATCH ZERO-DAY EXPLOITS, UNACCEPTABLE, I WANT TO PERSONALLY DECIDE WHEN I FIX MY SECURITY HOLES"

 

In June Nvidia fell arse over tit on a number of driver updates. On multiple generations of GPU from Fermi to Maxwell performance was pretty devastated in a range of games and you couldn't even use Chrome without a driver crash every 30 seconds. If Windows 10 had been released two months ago for the majority of people you would not be able to delay that driver update until a hotfix had been made. You would have been forced to use it. Furthermore, the last couple of days has had some massive issues for Nvidia caused by GeForce Experience and Windows Update fighting over which driver to install.

 

Tell me again why it's ridiculous to want to be in control over which updates I get.

 

 

They are. You can not opt out from telemetry data and Microsoft don't tell us what exactly they are collecting.

 

Pretty sure there are European Data Protection laws (or at least a Directive) that's in breech of

[79wjd]

So full knowledge and consent = "Hey user, you have a free upgrade to windows 10 click here to download and proceed" and then some sort of EULA once you committed to the update.

 

Wow soon simply asking "Wait, what?" will qualify as informed consent then.

Are you seriously saying that it's Microsoft's fault that people don't read the EULA/TOS before agreeing to it? Come on...you can't be serious. A person is responsible for his own actions, it's his own fault for not reading the legal contract that he is accepting. A little personal responsibility really isn't too much to ask for. A user MUST agree to set terms and conditions in order to use the software. If a user chooses not to read those terms and conditions then anything is fair game (so long as it's within reason -- TOS can't have anything that's outside of the reasonable realm and still be legally enforceable). 

[MageTank]

They are. You can not opt out from telemetry data and Microsoft don't tell us what exactly they are collecting.

But it has been proven. You can go into the privacy setting and see it for yourself if you don't believe me.

What option are you talking about? The Feedback and Diagnostics option? Because they are very clear on what they are collecting. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/feedback-diagnostics-privacy-faq

 

Setting it to basic only gives them the data they already collect anyways. Data that has been collected since as far back as Vista. I think you severely underestimate how long CEIP has been around, but overestimate what it does. 

[ChineseChef]

I would like to bring up the time, I think it was 7 years ago, that MS released a security update, that caused most HP systems (I think it was AMD only) to get stuck in a boot loop.  Required some pretty hefty tech knowledge to be able to fix.  MS pulled it down pretty quick, but not before something like 700-800 K people were affected.  So MS basically soft bricked a bunch of people systems.  And that wasn't the first time, and with the recent driver issues, likely won't be the last.

 

Companies mess up updates from time to time, anyone remember the CCP debacle with the EVE update that killed people's Windows boot files in such a way that required a reinstall on a ton of systems?  Where CCP had to spend a bunch of time and money to help those people fix their systems?  Imagine if MS or any company they work with pushed something out that only messed up .5% of the user's computers, that is a lot of people.  Imagine if a driver update causes a software conflict in such a way that it won't let you fix it, oh well, just have to reinstall. 

 

I have no problem with forcing updates after a certain amount of time.  But no one should be forced to beta test updates.  They should be made available for X amount of time before the OS mandatory updates the security fixes (and security fixes only).

[ErickS89]

What option are you talking about? The Feedback and Diagnostics option? Because they are very clear on what they are collecting. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/feedback-diagnostics-privacy-faq

 

Setting it to basic only gives them the data they already collect anyways. Data that has been collected since as far back as Vista. I think you severely underestimate how long CEIP has been around, but overestimate what it does. 

Microsoft has been collecting data since the XP days, it's nothing new and I'm literally shocked about the reaction...  

If you care about your privacy and what information MS collections from you, why are you on windows and just now starting to complain? This is nothing new, they've been doing this literally for 14 years and probably older.

[FakezZ]

As discussed inside, the moronic, unfounded, without a specs of any proof what's so ever, comes with possibilities scenarios that is not the reality. Just some Linux or Apple fanboy who is pissed off that Windows 10 is getting his attention and not his favorite OS.

Anyone can do the same: Android, iOS, MacOS can be potential malware and virus delivery system!

Hackers can hack the update servers to send fake OS updates to people with malware and viruses.

Can it happen? Sure, anything is possible. Has is happened since the day the Internet was born. No.

The chances that this of happening is slim to none.

Yeah and the chances that Microsoft would make Windows 10 a free upgrade were also slim to none

[MageTank]

I would like to bring up the time, I think it was 7 years ago, that MS released a security update, that caused most HP systems (I think it was AMD only) to get stuck in a boot loop.  Required some pretty hefty tech knowledge to be able to fix.  MS pulled it down pretty quick, but not before something like 700-800 K people were affected.  So MS basically soft bricked a bunch of people systems.  And that wasn't the first time, and with the recent driver issues, likely won't be the last.

 

Companies mess up updates from time to time, anyone remember the CCP debacle with the EVE update that killed people's Windows boot files in such a way that required a reinstall on a ton of systems?  Where CCP had to spend a bunch of time and money to help those people fix their systems?  Imagine if MS or any company they work with pushed something out that only messed up .5% of the user's computers.  Imagine if a driver update causes a software conflict in such a way that it won't let you fix it, oh well, just have to reinstall. 

 

I have no problem with forcing updates after a certain amount of time.  But no one should be forced to beta test updates.  They should be made available for X amount of time before the OS mandatory updates the security fixes (and security fixes only).

Nobody is being forced to be a guinea pig. The people that want windows 10 for free without having a valid license, are able to keep it for free as long as they stay in the insider program. These people are the ones that get the updates before everyone, and are testing them in exchange for a legitimate windows copy. I think it is a fair compromise. This also lets MS test updates before they are released to the masses that have valid, paid for keys. In theory, this should prevent scenario's that you've previously mentioned, from happening again. I do wish they still gave people the freedom of choice though. People should be allowed to make the decision on whether or  not they want their system to be secure and up to date. Not just enterprise users.

[Jasmin]

Is is possible that people who upgraded pirated versions would be automatically rolled into the 'testers', thus receiving beta builds alongside legit copy of windows?

[ErickS89]

Nobody is being forced to be a guinea pig. The people that want windows 10 for free without having a valid license, are able to keep it for free as long as they stay in the insider program. These people are the ones that get the updates before everyone, and are testing them in exchange for a legitimate windows copy. I think it is a fair compromise. This also lets MS test updates before they are released to the masses that have valid, paid for keys. In theory, this should prevent scenario's that you've previously mentioned, from happening again. I do wish they still gave people the freedom of choice though. People should be allowed to make the decision on whether or  not they want their system to be secure and up to date. Not just enterprise users.

I'm probably going to update to enterprise since it's just Win10 Pro but with the option to choose when to update, I like updating regardless of OS once a month.

[79wjd]

Yeah and the chances that Microsoft would make Windows 10 a free upgrade were also slim to none

Actually, the likelihood of a free upgrade to 10 was pretty high. 

 

Nobody is being forced to be a guinea pig. The people that want windows 10 for free without having a valid license, are able to keep it for free as long as they stay in the insider program. These people are the ones that get the updates before everyone, and are testing them in exchange for a legitimate windows copy. I think it is a fair compromise. This also lets MS test updates before they are released to the masses that have valid, paid for keys. In theory, this should prevent scenario's that you've previously mentioned, from happening again. I do wish they still gave people the freedom of choice though. People should be allowed to make the decision on whether or  not they want their system to be secure and up to date. Not just enterprise users.

He's saying that regular users (outside of the tech preview/beta testers) shouldn't be forced to update until the update has been around (for regular users) for...say a month in order to let enough people download and beta test it outside of the (potentially limited/distinct) tech preview environment. 

 

Is is possible that people who upgraded pirated versions would be automatically rolled into the 'testers', thus receiving beta builds alongside legit copy of windows?

hahaha, yes please. 

 

 

I'm probably going to update to enterprise since it's just Win10 Pro but with the option to choose when to update, I like updating regardless of OS once a month.

If only I could get W10 enterprise for free.... stupid MSDN licenses not offering an Enterprise edition. 

[cragger89]

The original control panel from Windows 7/8.1 is still present in 10. Control is still the same.

 

I like reading opinions from people who haven't even used the software - it makes me laugh. A lot.

 

A lot.

[TheGamingBarrel]

The original control panel from Windows 7/8.1 is still present in 10. Control is still the same.

 

I like reading opinions from people who haven't even used the software - it makes me laugh. A lot.

 

A lot.

Its like feminazi's reviewing games.

[MageTank]

Is is possible that people who upgraded pirated versions would be automatically rolled into the 'testers', thus receiving beta builds alongside legit copy of windows?

I personally think that the keys will be valid for a month or two, then deactivated. After this time period, the "revert back to windows 7/8" feature will be disabled, and the pirates will be backed into a wall. Microsoft can then offer them the ability to become test subjects, and be on the righteous side once more. Either that, or they will use the Enterprise edition, because according to people, KMS protocol has not changed. So this means 1001 rearms and 180 day licensing per period. 

 

 

 

He's saying that regular users (outside of the tech preview/beta testers) shouldn't be forced to update until the update has been around (for regular users) for...say a month in order to let enough people download and beta test it outside of the (potentially limited/distinct) tech preview environment. 

 

I understand exactly what he is saying. It is why i responded the way i did. We do not know how long the guinea pigs will be testing the beta updates before they become released to the masses. For all we know, the common updates could come a month or two after the beta testers tested it. Since we lack this information, we cannot make a conclusive assumption on it.

 

If you read my entire post, i also agreed with the general consensus that updates should not be forced on everyone, and that people should be able to make choices at the cost of support.

[KirbyTech]

More like "I don't want to be forced to install something that ends up breaking my PC, or creating a security hole".

Did they not introduce something where you can roll back an update and doesn't pro allow you to choose when to install them. If you don't like being force to then use the one that does not force you simple as that. Them forcing updates is something important for everyone as many people don't update at all and don't fix security hole as a result. 

[ErickS89]

The original control panel from Windows 7/8.1 is still present in 10. Control is still the same.

 

I like reading opinions from people who haven't even used the software - it makes me laugh. A lot.

 

A lot.

Well.... no, for theme stuff you yes can choose a theme but you can't change your wallpaper or even theme color in the desktop control panel, you have to use settings.

But yes, almost everything is in the Control panel, everything else was moved to the settings panel.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

Not to mention the obviously large security issue that is forced updating. To anyone who says "no it's not", ask yourself WHY the enterprise edition comes without that "feature".

 

It has been said a million times already, the reason they have the ability to disable updates has nothing at all to do with security, it is simply a matter of compatibility.