According To 8chan's /tech/, Windows 10 Could Be Fairly Malicious

[othertomperson]

to start of with that image was not in your post when I responded so don't call me "willfully blind". And secondly all I see are options to turn off those settings, not "selling" data to third parties as you claim.

 

You are being wilfully blind because that screenshot is from a news article that @SpaghettiCarbonara has posted at least twice in this thread now. As I have also said multiple times, this is a screen you have to navigate towards during the install process. Most people installing are just going to click "next" and not go into the more in depth customisation options. It is not good enough to hide the privacy options in the esoterica. Not by a fucking mile. And literally says just there that your information is being sent to Microsoft and trusted partners. How are you not reading this, it's right there.

 

Look I can accept you not caring, and I can accept you being so laissez faire with the level of government and corporate surveillance you are personally under, that's fine with me. But don't tell me that I nor anyone else should not have a problem with this.

 

Personally I think someone should be able to install an OS in 10 minutes by just clocking the next button without Microsoft, the government and advertisers being informed whenever they take a shit.

[dalekphalm]

You are being wilfully blind because that screenshot is from a news article that @SpaghettiCarbonara has posted at least twice in this thread now. As I have also said multiple times, this is a screen you have to navigate towards during the install process. Most people installing are just going to click "next" and not go into the more in depth customisation options. It is not good enough to hide the privacy options in the esoterica. Not by a fucking mile. And literally says just there that your information is being sent to Microsoft and trusted partners. How are you not reading this, it's right there.

 

Look I can accept you not caring, and I can accept you being so laissez faire with the level of government and corporate surveillance you are personally under, that's fine with me. But don't tell me that I nor anyone else should not have a problem with this.

 

Personally I think someone should be able to install an OS in 10 minutes by just clocking the next button without Microsoft, the government and advertisers being informed whenever they take a shit.

I'd just like to point out, that if you actually read @mr moose's post, you'd see that he's asking you to confirm your statement that they SELL the information.

 

Every company that you buy stuff from, or has any sort of monetary interaction, will "send data to trusted third parties". It's literally impossible to provide integrated services otherwise. They need to share that information with their credit card transaction companies, share it with banks, share it with shipping companies when you are sent a package, etc.

 

Then they need to share it with Law Enforcement by court order, any time that happens - although I admit, that is a totally separate situation.

[mr moose]

You are being wilfully blind because that screenshot is from a news article that @SpaghettiCarbonara has posted at least twice in this thread now. As I have also said multiple times, this is a screen you have to navigate towards during the install process. Most people installing are just going to click "next" and not go into the more in depth customisation options. It is not good enough to hide the privacy options in the esoterica. Not by a fucking mile. And literally says just there that your information is being sent to Microsoft and trusted partners. How are you not reading this, it's right there.

 

Look I can accept you not caring, and I can accept you being so laissez faire with the level of government and corporate surveillance you are personally under, that's fine with me. But don't tell me that I nor anyone else should not have a problem with this.

 

Personally I think someone should be able to install an OS in 10 minutes by just clocking the next button without Microsoft, the government and advertisers being informed whenever they take a shit.

 

He may have posted it before, but not in a post I was quoted or tagged in (and if so it was edited after the fact) and you certainly didn't send it to me,   so why would I have seen it.  Not only is it silly to make assumptions but to accuse people of things based on those assumptions is poor etiquette.  

 

Also you are claiming MS are selling information, your evidence is a screen during install that asks if you would like to disable certain data collection.  Ms give their customers these options various different reasons, they give you the option to turn it off and your complaint is currently an assumed one that goes against their published privacy statement and you have no evidence to support.

 

You might want an OS you can install in 10 minutes without reading, that ain't going to happen because consumer laws (the ones that actually protect the consumer) require all these EULA's, privacy statements, install agreements and check box notifications.   I am certainly not beyond caring and do consider government spying to be very serious, but I am not going to blame MS (currently without any proof) of doing that because the government does/wants to do it.  

 

So again, show me where MS said they are "selling" your private data?

[tomas710]

rom 8chan is a lie. 3 of them can be disabled/opt-outed from and while Cortana don't have a setting for local users, it can be disabled (*puts on tinfoil hat* but we don't know if it's really disabled!!1!1! *takes off tinfoil hat*). The other 2 points are genuinely scary to me since you can't do anything about them, and they are 100% correct.

 

 

Gotta give it to 4chan/8chan, they sure know how to stir shit up...and they control the internet too...

[RH00D]

I sent you a screenshot of the setting in the OS saying that they do. Why are you being so wilfully blind?

 

And nowhere on it does it say sell. You said they sell it. You have not shown ANYWHERE where it states "sell". Not in the screenshot you provided and not in the policy either.

[mr moose]

That article about Microsoft getting the source code reviewed is 12 years old, and a lot has changed since then. For example Microsoft has entered the ad business and are far more interested in personal details now. Don't assume that Microsoft are exactly the same as they were 12 years ago.

 

 

Here's one from June this year:

 

http://www.networkworld.com/article/2931214/microsoft-lets-eu-governments-inspect-source-code-for-security-issues.html

 

It is exactly the same program and demonstrates the transparency with which MS are willing to operate.  MS would only be shooting themselves in the foot if they try to snoop on their customers.  Unfortunately it is a double edged sword and opens the door to governments finding and exploiting vulnerabilities, however that is a different discussion.

[LAwLz]

Here's one from June this year:

http://www.networkworld.com/article/2931214/microsoft-lets-eu-governments-inspect-source-code-for-security-issues.html

It is exactly the same program and demonstrates the transparency with which MS are willing to operate. MS would only be shooting themselves in the foot if they try to snoop on their customers. Unfortunately it is a double edged sword and opens the door to governments finding and exploiting vulnerabilities, however that is a different discussion.

That's better.

How would they be shooting themselves in the foot though? It is 100% confirmed that they are snooping on some of their customers' things (we do not know exactly what info they are collecting, but they collect something). The vast majority I see are defending them, so Microsoft got nothing to worry about.

[mr moose]

That's better.

How would they be shooting themselves in the foot though? It is 100% confirmed that they are snooping on some of their customers' things (we do not know exactly what info they are collecting, but they collect something). The vast majority I see are defending them, so Microsoft got nothing to worry about.

 

If a company like MS losses the trust of their customers they stand to loose sales.  Governments and enterprises have experimented with Linux before, each time a large company or government does it Linux comes one step closer to being an easier alternative.  If a company does not feel they can trust MS to not snoop then they will seek alternatives.  Same with governments,  That's why many EU and the Russian governments are jumping all over the opportunity to look at MS source code.

 

So you know they are collecting data but you have no idea what and can't prove it?

[cesrai]

I feel like some people participating in this conversation don't read all of the post/comment.

[LAwLz]

If a company like MS losses the trust of their customers they stand to loose sales.  Governments and enterprises have experimented with Linux before, each time a large company or government does it Linux comes one step closer to being an easier alternative.  If a company does not feel they can trust MS to not snoop then they will seek alternatives.  Same with governments,  That's why many EU and the Russian governments are jumping all over the opportunity to look at MS source code.

 

So you know they are collecting data but you have no idea what and can't prove it?

Well they got a setting for turning the collection of data off but you can't disable it in anything but the Enterprise version. So I assume that since there is a setting for turning it off, it's turned on in other versions.

 

If I get some timer over I'll try and monitor some traffic. Would a screenshot of suspicious packets leaving my computer and going to a Microsoft server be sufficient evidence? I could also post instructions on how to replicate the results for others to try out in case you accuse me of faking it.

In the meantime I think it's a fair assumption that data collection that explicitly says you can't turn it off unless you got the Enterprise version will in fact be turned on in the other versions.

[Astralify]

Please quote where it says they "sell" to third parties. 

 

It says they share information with third parties in order to provide services, not sell to third parties that have no tangible link to the services they provide you.

It's not directly mentioned in the PP. It's a sum up from the EDRi article.

We copied and pasted the Microsoft Privacy Statement and the Services Agreement into a document editor and found that these “straightforward” terms are 22 and 23 pages long respectively. Summing up these 45 pages, one can say that Microsoft basically grants itself very broad rights to collect everything you do, say and write with and on your devices in order to sell more targeted advertising or to sell your data to third parties. The company appears to be granting itself the right to share your data either with your consent “or as necessary”.

You are welcome.

Also, we know that government agencies will get info from basically everywhere if they want, the thing is that Windows 10 can get so much more information about you and your activities like nothing else before. And everything is so well organized by micro$oft. With things like your unique ID and shit.

Also, here is another article from RT. Quote of interest:

 

“I am pretty surprised by the far-reaching data collection that Microsoft seems to want,” web developer Jonathan Porta wrote on his blog. “I am even more surprised by the fact that the settings all default to incredibly intrusive. I am certain that most individuals will just accept the defaults and have no idea how much information they are giving away.”

As examples, Porta cited Microsoft having access to contacts, calendar details, and “other associated input data” such as “typing and inking” by default. The operating system also wants access to user locations and location history, both of which could be provided not just to Microsoft, but to its “trusted partners.”

“Who are the trusted partners? By whom are they trusted? I am certainly not the one doing any trusting right now,” Porta wrote, describing the default privacy options as “vague and bordering on scary.”

 

 

Peace.

[GoodBytes]

Oh please. What a bunch of bologna.

1- Everything you mentioned is worst than a conspiracy theory, there is no fact to even create a foundation of a conspiracy theory, just opinion

2- You don't know what GUID is, and you are assuming you do.

3- Standard term "trusted partners". It means law officers upon warrant and laws where Microsoft is located. Microsoft won't list the list of patterns because the list is super long, as it include ad agencies that Microsoft does business with, to get ads for it's platform. Nothing is used to identify you personally. Just stuff like "30% of users are men between age 18-25,. and like to get Tech news".. Hmm maybe it would be good to publish tech related ads. That kind of stuff is being done. Same for Google and nearly all other services with targeted ads. This includes Amazon, and other stores.

4- RT news? really? A "news" site that defends North Korea, that has 0 legitimacy, and rarely have any concrete evidence on anything they say? More like "Opinion on news... with conspiracy news at 11!"

[JustChilliing]

Apple has collected my data for years through Siri, I'm sure Cortana will take what she needs...

 

 

I don't think I've died yet, and no mysterious people have turned up at my door...

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

Oh please. What a bunch of bologna.

1- Everything you mentioned is worst than a conspiracy theory, there is no fact to even create a foundation of a conspiracy theory, just opinion

2- You don't know what GUID is, and you are assuming you do.

3- Standard term "trusted partners". It means law officers upon warrant and laws where Microsoft is located. Microsoft won't list the list of patterns because the list is super long, as it include ad agencies that Microsoft does business with, to get ads for it's platform. Nothing is used to identify you personally. Just stuff like "30% of users are men between age 18-25,. and like to get Tech news".. Hmm maybe it would be good to publish tech related ads. That kind of stuff is being done. Same for Google and nearly all other services with targeted ads. This includes Amazon, and other stores.

4- RT news? really? A "news" site that defends North Korea, that has 0 legitimacy, and rarely have any concrete evidence on anything they say? More like "Opinion on news... with conspiracy news at 11!"

 

1 ) That's YOUR opinion.  As for conspiracy theories, before the Snowden revelations anyone suggesting that MS passed information to government agencies was also a conspiracy theorist.  And guess what?  The nutcases were right !

2 + 3 ) Google links all the data they have on you to their own ID system, including the IP address.  That last bit means that anyone with enough of an interest (like any government agency for example) can easily identify you personally.  As Microsoft starts gethering data, the same will happen.

4 ) RT didn't make up the article, they merely quoted an independent blogger.  So they're not the only ones who feel that way about the level of intrusiveness.

 

As for the "bunch of bologna" thing : You know, usually when people act all condescending and then post such nonsense for a while, I tend to just put them on ignore so I don't have to read that kind of shit anymore. 

Unfortunately you can't ignore mods here.  Guess how I found that out?

[Astralify]

Oh please. What a bunch of bologna.

1- Everything you mentioned is worst than a conspiracy theory, there is no fact to even create a foundation of a conspiracy theory, just opinion

2- You don't know what GUID is, and you are assuming you do.

3- Standard term "trusted partners". It means law officers upon warrant and laws where Microsoft is located. Microsoft won't list the list of patterns because the list is super long, as it include ad agencies that Microsoft does business with, to get ads for it's platform. Nothing is used to identify you personally. Just stuff like "30% of users are men between age 18-25,. and like to get Tech news".. Hmm maybe it would be good to publish tech related ads. That kind of stuff is being done. Same for Google and nearly all other services with targeted ads. This includes Amazon, and other stores.

4- RT news? really? A "news" site that defends North Korea, that has 0 legitimacy, and rarely have any concrete evidence on anything they say? More like "Opinion on news... with conspiracy news at 11!"

 You come out as a very ignorant person (no offense). I don't see a reason why I should continue the conversation with you any further. But I will continue to post relevant info on the issue. Feel free to ignore it.

[GoodBytes]

Perhaps I didn't explain my self properly, I'll try to again (if too long, jump to bold text bellow):

1 ) That's YOUR opinion.  As for conspiracy theories, before the Snowden revelations anyone suggesting that MS passed information to government agencies was also a conspiracy theorist.  And guess what?  The nutcases were right !

Ok, so now all conspiracy theories are 100% correct, because 1 of them, among the billions, was somewhat correct.

And you are right. The whole worlds runs on a secret organization of a very few super rich which we don't know who they are, and all with a master plan for: mass control or total population reduction or <insert whatever you want>. I have the game Illuminati, I can pull it out and have fun if you want. To me it is more of a government that doesn't know/can't know really at 100% everything, and sign things or being persuaded to sign things because: It was done before, so let's continue. Or doesn't process everything in details, because the population asks for instant/swift action. Speed, prevents in depth analysis of things done right.

For a company to do this, is suicidal. Even Google with all their tracking, isn't that insane.

 

2 + 3 ) Google links all the data they have on you to their own ID system, including the IP address.  That last bit means that anyone with enough of an interest (like any government agency for example) can easily identify you personally.  As Microsoft starts gethering data, the same will happen.

IP address cannot be used to identify you, it changes all the time, especially if you have IPv6. My IPv6 seams to change 3 or more times per day. But let's assume it can. Well Microsoft can already track you every time you access their servers. That mean activation system kicking-in, and when you do Windows updates. Many sites runs on Microsoft Azure platform servers. All the information is already known about you, at this point in time. Just looking at sites you visit, it knows you interests.

Microsoft has already went through great lengths to protect people and company privacy, while being compliant to warrants, showing that if the government wants access to personal data, the company offers super fast response time with a warrant, but you don't have one and you try, the company will fight for it, and they have. This small investment in lawyer complications is what brought and continues to bring customers to Microsoft services. From people like us switching to Microsoft mail, and other services, to businesses using Azure. So for Microsoft to pull a switch like that, would be devastating, where all will just leave.

Can a company be suicidal? Of course! Anything is possible. Is it the reality that a big company like Microsoft do that? No.

 

4 ) RT didn't make up the article, they merely quoted an independent blogger.  So they're not the only ones who feel that way about the level of intrusiveness.

Blogger isn't a legit source. Try again. It is easy to pick and choose your source. Or make your own, like the guy that made "Battery University" website, a website he build to site as sources in his journals publication and book. Wonderful, isn't?

 

As for the "bunch of bologna" thing : You know, usually when people act all condescending and then post such nonsense for a while, I tend to just put them on ignore so I don't have to read that kind of shit anymore. 

Unfortunately you can't ignore mods here.  Guess how I found that out?

I post non sense? I post facts, and common sense. You pick specific sentences without reading the entirety to the content (or what it seams), and bring mass 'out of this world' ideas.

It comes back to what I said: We should ban all OS, because they have a an updater system, which hackers (or government) can use to hack the servers, and release false update to track people, and as no one actually checks the details of the updates, passes without anyone knowing. And, that malware can remove from the updater log itself, and contains no uninstaller, so that you can't remove it, or easily identify this malicious install.

Can it happen? Yes! Will it happen? Maybe, anything is possible. Is is realistic? No. (oooorrr.. maybe it has already happened... Dun dun duuunm....)

This is not reality, because unlike some companies like Target, or Home Depot which had data breached because they had virtually no security; Google, Microsoft, Amazon, and so on, uses extremely strong protection systems to protect their server, especially in the recent years. If any of these companies should be scared are partners that they do deals with. Like I recall many many many years go, Microsoft store website database, which wasn't managed by Microsoft at the time, had a breached. (That was, I think, before the whole actual Microsoft store existed)

Nothing is full proof, so it can/could happen.

And that is my point

It isn't about YOU specifically. It is about PEOPLE, and this is what marketing and all companies wants as data and are willing to spend a lot of money for it. It is better for a company to spend 1 million dollars in market research data, than to spend 30 million dollars on a product that miss target the audience it initially thought would be interested, and fails. That, is what we are talking about.

And Not: "Captain Chaos lives Belgium, and love tech news. based on his activity and response online he is between age 18 to 30... more monitoring installed to try and identify his exact age. Defends conspiracy theories. Sends more drone to create fake accounts on the forum with fake post count by compromising LTT forum servers, and post how silly his thinking is. If that doesn't work, send the man... THE man, to his doors!" All happening with a person analyzing everything on its screen about you, with randomly rotating large tapes on the back.

[GoodBytes]

I would like to add that. Yes, Windows 8 and 10 both has something called AppID. An ID generated used to track your interest based on what Windows app you use that implements it (free apps with ads, for example. This does not include desktop apps), and what you feed Cortana (in the case of Windows 10), if you choose to use the service. I don't mean what you search on your PC, but actually using Cortana if you enabled it, and configure it to be your interest or search the web with. In Windows 8 it was when you use the web searching feature in 8.1

And yes, you can't turn it off, but it is not there to identify you directly per se. This is what you can do however (Windows 8 and 10 are the same):

[mr moose]

Well they got a setting for turning the collection of data off but you can't disable it in anything but the Enterprise version. So I assume that since there is a setting for turning it off, it's turned on in other versions.

 

If I get some timer over I'll try and monitor some traffic. Would a screenshot of suspicious packets leaving my computer and going to a Microsoft server be sufficient evidence? I could also post instructions on how to replicate the results for others to try out in case you accuse me of faking it.

In the meantime I think it's a fair assumption that data collection that explicitly says you can't turn it off unless you got the Enterprise version will in fact be turned on in the other versions.

 

Well, frankly no, because unless you can show what the data is then you can't prove anything.  I dare say those with access to the source code could fins out what the data is.

 

 

It's not directly mentioned in the PP. It's a sum up from the EDRi article.

 

 

You are welcome.

Also, we know that government agencies will get info from basically everywhere if they want, the thing is that Windows 10 can get so much more information about you and your activities like nothing else before. And everything is so well organized by micro$oft. With things like your unique ID and shit.

Also, here is another article from RT. Quote of interest:

 

 

Peace.

 

Those articles are mostly pointing out the obvious and some simply extrapolating on terms that readers seem to not understand.

 

As @GoodBytes has pointed out above, there is a specific reason for all these terms, they must be included in the form they are to allow windows/cortana/MS programs to operate as advertised.  People seem to be assuming* they mean other things.   It seems pretty obvious to anyone with half an intellect that if you enable cloud sync then MS is going store a copy of all your browsing, program, message and calendar data on their server.   That's how when I add a calendar event to my phone at work, my home PC automatically syncs and my wife knows I have another job.  It's not some insidious data snooping ploy. 

 

 

*literally assuming, there is no proof and when there is no proof it is an assumption.

 

Also what data do you think MS can benefit from?  They can't monetize personal information like who your dating, who you vote for, what your home life is like, whether you support lobby X, Y or Z.  Basically 90% of the information they might gleam from emails, documents and so on. 

 

EDIT: fixed up atrocious grammar errors and auto correct mistakes.

[LAwLz]

Well, frankly no, because unless you can show what the data is then you can't prove anything. I dare say those with access to the source code could fins out what the data is.

To be frank, I think you're a huge idiot right now. So what you are saying is there is absolutely nothing I can do to change your mind?

Microsoft says they collect data and you still demand proof that they do. When I offer to show proof of them collecting data you backpedal and want to know what data they are collecting.

THAT IS WHAT I WANT TOO! But Microsoft won't tell us exactly what data they are collecting.

Just go back a few posts and you will see that you have changed position and you probably don't even realize it. I was saying that they were collecting data and it was bad we didn't know what data it was, and you said I couldn't prove it. I offered to prove it and now you're saying it's okay because we don't know what data they are collecting. That is what I dislike about it.

[mr moose]

To be frank, I think you're a huge idiot right now. So what you are saying is there is absolutely nothing I can do to change your mind?

Microsoft says they collect data and you still demand proof that they do. When I offer to show proof of them collecting data you backpedal and want to know what data they are collecting.

THAT IS WHAT I WANT TOO! But Microsoft won't tell us exactly what data they are collecting.

Just go back a few posts and you will see that you have changed position and you probably don't even realize it. I was saying that they were collecting data and it was bad we didn't know what data it was, and you said I couldn't prove it. I offered to prove it and now you're saying it's okay because we don't know what data they are collecting. That is what I dislike about it.

 

what?

 

You think I am an idiot because you can't prove they are doing what they say they aren't.   They say in their privacy statement that they are not using personal data to direct ads, they also say they will not look at personal data even if a complaint is made but instead pass that data onto law enforcement.   I have not changed my position on that at all.  You nor anyone else can prove that MS are reading your emails and either selling it to other people or handing it over without consent to trusted partners.  If someone does (from source code or showing proof the data sent back to MS was in a private document/email), then I will believe it, but until that time I refuse to make an assumption and jump up and down like someone kicked my cat.

 

Seeing packets being sent back to MS does not equal proof they are snooping on private data, it could just as easily be any one of the many things they listed that does get sent back, like installed apps, how long it takes to open a particular file and what program you used and so on.  Calling me an idiot because you've made an assumption is ridiculous.  And your still forgetting that many agencies and governments are still pouring over the source code before deciding if they are going to use it. 

[linuxfan66]

what?

You think I am an idiot because you can't prove they are doing what they say they aren't. They say in their privacy statement that they are not using personal data to direct ads, they also say they will not look at personal data even if a complaint is made but instead pass that data onto law enforcement. I have not changed my position on that at all. You nor anyone else can prove that MS are reading your emails and either selling it to other people or handing it over without consent to trusted partners. If someone does (from source code or showing proof the data sent back to MS was in a private document/email), then I will believe it, but until that time I refuse to make an assumption and jump up and down like someone kicked my cat.

Seeing packets being sent back to MS does not equal proof they are snooping on private data, it could just as easily be any one of the many things they listed that does get sent back, like installed apps, how long it takes to open a particular file and what program you used and so on. Calling me an idiot because you've made an assumption is ridiculous. And your still forgetting that many agencies and governments are still pouring over the source code before deciding if they are going to use it.

Mods please shut this thread down it has no reason to be kept alive anymore...

[LAwLz]

what?

 

You think I am an idiot because you can't prove they are doing what they say they aren't.   They say in their privacy statement that they are not using personal data to direct ads, they also say they will not look at personal data even if a complaint is made but instead pass that data onto law enforcement.   I have not changed my position on that at all.  You nor anyone else can prove that MS are reading your emails and either selling it to other people or handing it over without consent to trusted partners.  If someone does (from source code or showing proof the data sent back to MS was in a private document/email), then I will believe it, but until that time I refuse to make an assumption and jump up and down like someone kicked my cat.

 

Seeing packets being sent back to MS does not equal proof they are snooping on private data, it could just as easily be any one of the many things they listed that does get sent back, like installed apps, how long it takes to open a particular file and what program you used and so on.  Calling me an idiot because you've made an assumption is ridiculous.  And your still forgetting that many agencies and governments are still pouring over the source code before deciding if they are going to use it. 

I don't think you've read my posts and are making a bunch of assumptions. I never said anything about them reading my emails and stuff. Go back a few posts and you will see that I got 2 issues with this.

 

1) That they are collecting info and we have no way of turning it off. Do you agree that this is the case? If you don't then I will gladly show you the settings as well as start monitoring traffic so I can capture some packets. If you don't believe me now, would those things be solid evidence enough to make you believe me? We are not talking about what is being sent here, just that they are doing it.

 

2) We don't know what info they are collecting. The settings and policies are pretty vague, we can't preview the data before it's being send and we don't get a detailed list of exactly what things they are collecting. Do you agree that we can't see these things? I can't prove a negative so if you disagree then I would like you to show me for example a list of exactly what they are collecting, or show me where I can preview the data being collected.

 

 

Do you or do you not agree that both of these things are true and if you do, don't you agree that they are bad in terms of customer privacy?

 

 

 

 

Mods please shut this thread down it has no reason to be kept alive anymore...

Why not? The thread is still on topic and clearly people want to discuss it.

[Fetzie]

Well, frankly no, because unless you can show what the data is then you can't prove anything.  I dare say those with access to the source code could fins out what the data is.

 

 

 

Those articles are mostly pointing out the obvious and some simply extrapolating on terms that readers seem to not understand.

 

As @GoodBytes has pointed out above, there is a specific reason for all these terms, they must be included in the form they are to allow windows/cortana/MS programs to operate as advertised.  People seem to be assuming* they mean other things.   It seems pretty obvious to anyone with half an intellect that if you enable cloud sync then MS is going store a copy of all your browsing, program, message and calendar data on their server.   That's how when I add a calendar event to my phone at work, my home PC automatically syncs and my wife knows I have another job.  It's not some insidious data snooping ploy. 

 

 

*literally assuming, there is no proof and when there is no proof it is an assumption.

 

Also what data do you think MS can benefit from?  They can't monetize personal information like who your dating, who you vote for, what your home life is like, whether you support lobby X, Y or Z.  Basically 90% of the information they might gleam from emails, documents and so on. 

 

EDIT: fixed up atrocious grammar errors and auto correct mistakes.

 

I don't think you've read my posts and are making a bunch of assumptions. I never said anything about them reading my emails and stuff. Go back a few posts and you will see that I got 2 issues with this.

 

1) That they are collecting info and we have no way of turning it off. Do you agree that this is the case? If you don't then I will gladly show you the settings as well as start monitoring traffic so I can capture some packets. If you don't believe me now, would those things be solid evidence enough to make you believe me? We are not talking about what is being sent here, just that they are doing it.

 

2) We don't know what info they are collecting. The settings and policies are pretty vague, we can't preview the data before it's being send and we don't get a detailed list of exactly what things they are collecting. Do you agree that we can't see these things? I can't prove a negative so if you disagree then I would like you to show me for example a list of exactly what they are collecting, or show me where I can preview the data being collected.

 

 

Do you or do you not agree that both of these things are true and if you do, don't you agree that they are bad in terms of customer privacy?

 

 

 

 

Why not? The thread is still on topic and clearly people want to discuss it.

 

Wouldn't a pcap trace give us the data we need on what Windows is transmitting to Redmond? Anybody with Windows 10 that can do that and can analyze the data? Because that would be evidence as to what is transmitted, and how sensitive that information is (and whether or not it is encrypted!).

[LAwLz]

Wouldn't a pcap trace give us the data we need on what Windows is transmitting to Redmond? Anybody with Windows 10 that can do that?

That's what I was thinking of doing, but the traffic will probably be encrypted (if it's not then our computers are leaking a ton of personal info) and mr moose said that just showing him encrypted traffic wouldn't change his mind.

[Fetzie]

That's what I was thinking of doing, but the traffic will probably be encrypted (if it's not then our computers are leaking a ton of personal info) and mr moose said that just showing him encrypted traffic wouldn't change his mind.

 

If it isn't then that's the kind of thing that would get Microsoft in a shitload of trouble. I could almost live with it if the data is encrypted - if it is transmitted plain then I'd be effing furious (and I'd stick to 7, not like there'll be a significant amount of DX12 games out in the next 12 months anyway).