Vice-President of CaseLabs calls out Thermaltake for directly copying their designs (Computex 2015)

[Mysticode]

Repost maybe?

 

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/379036-vice-president-of-caselabs-calls-out-thermaltake-for-directly-copying-their-designs-computex-2015/

That's a link to this very thread!

[nathsters]

Every case is a copy now, with a few exceptions. 

NZXT H440 lookalikes?

[Syntaxvgm]

That's a link to this very thread!

I was gonna leave that golden nugget of stupidity alone. 

[Mysticode]

I was gonna leave that golden nugget of stupidity alone. 

Ehhh we all make mistakes.

 

In other news, did you all see that new HTPC case from Fractal? Pretty snazzy! Way better than the Corsair Bulldog...

[Kamina]

They look way too much alike.

 

It's like buying a Chinese knock off at this point.

[MageTank]

For the people complaining about the price of CaseLab cases, understand that they do not outsource their manufacturing. All of it is done in the US. If they were to manufacture the cases in china or something, then yeah, they could easily cut the prices down by a ton. Call it American pride, or whatever you will, there are always reasons for this. This is not a Beatz By Dre situation, where it costs them $10 to make a $400 product. They are spending a fair amount of cash to produce these cases, and they do offer unquestionable quality. Rather than try to justify Thermaltakes underhanded nature in "improving" upon an existing design, use empathy for CaseLabs. If this was your business or livelihood being put at risk by a company taking your design and selling it cheaper than you? As a consumer, this might seem okay because "cheap cases are cheap!11!!!" but at the end of the day, it completely derails innovation. While you might get these cases cheaper, it will hold back other designers from wanting to come up with something unique, as it too will be taken and made much cheaper by a company with a better manufacturing process.

 

It is one thing to improve upon a design, but to leave the aesthetics unchanged while doing so is just an insult.

[VSG]

I don't really know how to express my personal thoughts so perhaps I should ask you all to excuse me for this potentially incoherent thought piece put to text. As some of you know I recently started a small blog/website to review stuff that interested me, and a lot of companies have been great in supporting it. Thermaltake has been one of them, with their Riing 12 LED fans being the products they had sent. In fact, it was Shannon himself who had sent those my way and was very genuinely interested in my findings. I even asked him about the similarities in the fan design and packaging to the Corsair SP120 and the Antec True Quiet/UFO models. I knew already that all 3 (and more out there) are based off the same Hong Sheng fan (as with cases, there are 3-4 companies that make all the fans for everyone who isn't a cooling only brand like Blacknoise, Noctua etc) and he was very open about it. The packaging was unfortunate but a result of a decision made by TT and the manufacturing company. There were also a lot of small changes in the 3 products to where I was satisfied enough to let it slide.

 

While this was going on, I was having fun at TT's expense about their waterblocks for the Asus 9x0 Strix cards and the passive VRM cooling. This was also when I noticed all the similarities between all the various watercooling products and started contacting the various companies to see if they were working with TT. Swiftech were the only ones to confirm they were indeed working with TT and hence the W2 CPU block based off the Apogee XL and the quick disconnects. The rest either did not respond back or did so with wording I can't repeat on a public forum. You can see examples of these comparisons on ER, OC3D,

and more. Not everything in the media about this is factually correct, and some did not bother doing much research. The end result of these accusations has been a ~80-20 split of the public in favor of Caselabs across the various forums and online channels I frequent and won't change anything.

 

Thermaltake has no real obligation to do anything, and judging from everything I have seen they don't mean to do anything about this but go along with their plans. Even if the audience buying this has been reduced by half, they will still be happy. This is what irks me- people will naturally still buy it if priced well, but don't act about like they did nothing wrong. If they really did nothing wrong, they should invite 3rd party independent media personnel to review their cases, preferably with Caselabs having sent one of their cases to go with it. Ditto with Fractal and whoever have a beef. There will be changes, there will be similarities. The findings then go to the involved parties and they get to make a public statement accordingly. We all know this is not going to happen unless someone buys the cases separately and is invested enough. We also know, from the TT Core X Owner's Club on OCN, that the owners of the cases are not exactly pleased with the post-purchase support. This echoes my own personal experiences over the years also- little as they may be.

 

This is where Caselabs has won me for life. I made a post on their forums about how the triple 180mm radiator mounts were a pain to use with the pedestal of my Magnum TX10-D case. I sent an email to them asking if I can cut the edges of the pedestal top and bottom pieces without affecting case strength, and if they had any suggestions otherwise that I was overlooking. What you guys don't know is that CaseLabs are working on making two custom pieces so these rad mounts will work as intended. They also took the accessory off the website so others don't have the same issue. You could argue that this was just righting their own wrong but I have been way too jaded by this industry already and know how sparse even something like that is. This is why I am on Caselabs' side now till proven otherwise. Thermaltake have had the opportunity to do otherwise but so far their response has not been enough. If anything, that had irked people even more. Hopefully they spend more time on the cases themselves than figuring out how to sell these as different versions.

[Syntaxvgm]

For the people complaining about the price of CaseLab cases, understand that they do not outsource their manufacturing. All of it is done in the US. If they were to manufacture the cases in china or something, then yeah, they could easily cut the prices down by a ton. Call it American pride, or whatever you will, there are always reasons for this. This is not a Beatz By Dre situation, where it costs them $10 to make a $400 product. They are spending a fair amount of cash to produce these cases, and they do offer unquestionable quality. Rather than try to justify Thermaltakes underhanded nature in "improving" upon an existing design, use empathy for CaseLabs. If this was your business or livelihood being put at risk by a company taking your design and selling it cheaper than you? As a consumer, this might seem okay because "cheap cases are cheap!11!!!" but at the end of the day, it completely derails innovation. While you might get these cases cheaper, it will hold back other designers from wanting to come up with something unique, as it too will be taken and made much cheaper by a company with a better manufacturing process.

 

It is one thing to improve upon a design, but to leave the aesthetics unchanged while doing so is just an insult.

well and they are not prebuilt, they get an order, make a case. 

[The Gaige]

Thermaltake = Epic Fail!!!

[Enderman]

Not sure if this has been posted already, but Dazmode made a pretty good video about this topic.

 

It is not just cases.

 

They copied resevoirs from alphacool.

They copied waterblocks from heatkiller.

They copied fittings from EK.

And other stuff too...

 

These are exact copies of the products, with the only changes being cheaper quality materials and changed/removed logos and branding.

[CoolaxGaming]

I was gonna leave that golden nugget of stupidity alone. 

 

That's a link to this very thread!

If you see on page six, a repost thread was merged with this one.

That guy was calling that thread a repost, but since it had a good amount of replies, mods merged it with this one

[Cookie Monster]

Have case-labs registered their design? Without a registered design they are inviting copycats.

 

The problem with people copying designs like this, regardless of the legality, is it creates a massive disincentive to do any design of your own; it's far cheaper just to copy someone else's design than hire designers, create prototypes etc. 

[zMeul]

It is not just cases.

 

They copied resevoirs from alphacool.

They copied waterblocks from heatkiller.

They copied fittings from EK.

And other stuff too...

 

These are exact copies of the products, with the only changes being cheaper quality materials and changed/removed logos and branding.

they didn't copied, they replicated, reverse engineered

 

I seriously don't see the problem, everyone is free to sue TT - isn't that a "sport" in US anyways  <_<

TT hadn't sold the products under other branding, they sold them under TT logo

 

the patenting has gone nuts! I know a game developer that patented GUI elements and arrangements - this seriously needs to stop

[Ertman]

it does seem a little too similar, probably not a coincidence, but unless you are making some as different as the bulldog there is going to be design overlap.

I wonder how the build quality compares.

[ErickS89]

Blatant or not, Caselabs shouldn't be whining and crying about someone streamlining a process to make the same product, with slightly less quality, as well as offering FAR less customization. Caselabs should have just partnered with them in the first place.

Caselabs is known for quality,  thermaltake... not so much!  

 

Even if thermaltake did come out with a retail option I'd still choose CaseLabs as I'd want a quality case, not a case I throw out every year "which... I seem to do on an annual basis..." 

[patrickjp93]

Not sure if this has been posted already, but Dazmode made a pretty good video about this topic.

 

It is not just cases.

 

They copied resevoirs from alphacool.

They copied waterblocks from heatkiller.

They copied fittings from EK.

And other stuff too...

 

These are exact copies of the products, with the only changes being cheaper quality materials and changed/removed logos and branding.

How do you copy fittings? More importantly, how do you really make them any differently? It's such a small, simple piece of metal...

[Enderman]

How do you copy fittings? More importantly, how do you really make them any differently? It's such a small, simple piece of metal...

they copied the exact design of the EK fittings

They are not all the same. You can tell every brand of watercooling fitting apart. In this case TT copied the EK fittings and repainted them (which is extremely bad, never use painted fittings in a watercooling loop)

[Clyne]

For the people complaining about the price of CaseLab cases, understand that they do not outsource their manufacturing. All of it is done in the US. If they were to manufacture the cases in china or something, then yeah, they could easily cut the prices down by a ton. Call it American pride, or whatever you will, there are always reasons for this. This is not a Beatz By Dre situation, where it costs them $10 to make a $400 product. They are spending a fair amount of cash to produce these cases, and they do offer unquestionable quality. Rather than try to justify Thermaltakes underhanded nature in "improving" upon an existing design, use empathy for CaseLabs. If this was your business or livelihood being put at risk by a company taking your design and selling it cheaper than you? As a consumer, this might seem okay because "cheap cases are cheap!11!!!" but at the end of the day, it completely derails innovation. While you might get these cases cheaper, it will hold back other designers from wanting to come up with something unique, as it too will be taken and made much cheaper by a company with a better manufacturing process.

 

It is one thing to improve upon a design, but to leave the aesthetics unchanged while doing so is just an insult.

You also got to consider the R&D money that CaseLab spent on designing these cases.........

[patrickjp93]

they didn't copied, they replicated, reverse engineered

 

I seriously don't see the problem, everyone is free to sue TT - isn't that a "sport" in US anyways  <_<

TT hadn't sold the products under other branding, they sold them under TT logo

 

the patenting has gone nuts! I know a game developer that patented GUI elements and arrangements - this seriously needs to stop

Yes, it's called trade dress, and when you invest months of your life studying human psychology and usage of tech to craft that interface, I'm sure you'd love to protect the design and make money off of it. Luckily that kind of "patent" lasts only 6 years.

[Whaler_99]

Excuse me? There's nothing like the Core V21. And if you're going to bring up Cooler Master's crappy "stacking" cases, they're not even modular, and are designer's brain farts in comparison, kindergarten level stuff.

 

 

I was referring to the new Core X series, which are clearly taking from CL designs... I never mentioned Cooler Master at all...

[patrickjp93]

they copied the exact design of the EK fittings

 

They are not all the same. You can tell every brand of watercooling fitting apart. In this case TT copied the EK fittings and repainted them (which is extremely bad, never use painted fittings in a watercooling loop)

Eh, they all look the same to me when I do side by sides, but yes I know not to use painted. I would only use anodized if I wanted colored fittings.

[ErickS89]

How do you copy fittings? More importantly, how do you really make them any differently? It's such a small, simple piece of metal...

Fittings are just...fittings, it's kind of like audio gear sure one does the job but another does it so much better. 

[Whaler_99]

For those of you asking about some reviews... here are a few YouTube ones from a few of the more trusted sources...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Trik'Stari]

Caselabs is known for quality,  thermaltake... not so much!  

 

Even if thermaltake did come out with a retail option I'd still choose CaseLabs as I'd want a quality case, not a case I throw out every year "which... I seem to do on an annual basis..." 

True. But if on a budget and wanting a case with gobs of room for water cooling, the Core X9 is the way to go, as all the money you wanted to spend on water cooling, would be spent on a caselabs case, if you went with them.

 

For those of you asking about some reviews... here are a few YouTube ones from a few of the more trusted sources...

 

-snip

 

I've seen those. Not as good a job as Linus would do, as Linus would get right to the point. Everyone I've seen review a Caselabs case just takes too freaking long to review it, and ends up not answer my questions (or I miss the answer because they took forever to answer the damned question, and I stopped paying attention)

[patrickjp93]

Fittings are just...fittings, it's kind of like audio gear sure one does the job but another does it so much better. 

As a singer and avid musician, audio gear ergonomics can only be done so many ways, and I don't think anyone in the business sues over similar ergonomic designs. It generally comes down to aesthetics if someone's going to sue, or a ripoff of a proprietary tech. Now, quality of sound can vary hugely. Even in the high end there's a number of different sound stage styles, such as ones for production/professional recording, and ones for the most dynamic listening experience. I would never buy the Sennheiser HD 800s for 2 reasons: no adjustable headband (I seriously question how a $1500 pair of headphones was designed without this feature), and the sound stage is better for mixing than listening. However, take me to the $700 range and there are models that would blow your mind comparing the same high quality recording. I tend to use Chanticleer's CDs to gauge headphones because the group does so many different genres of music, has the full range from contrabass to soprano, and handles extremely complex harmonies with artistry almost unparalleled.

 

Audiotechnica, in spite of all their praise, has yet to come out with a headphone good enough to handle this without buzzing out in some of the 12-part cluster chords. Sennheiser anything $200 and above can get through it without any buzzing, and there's a stark difference between the gamer headphones/headsets and the pair of HD 700 I have which turn every recording into a live performance as if I was just at the center of a beautiful auditorium being the sole listener, taking in every nuance. Looks can be similar and ergonomics even exactly the same, but GOD can the quality vary.