Official Nvidia GTX 970 Discussion Thread

[Yoinkerman]

I'm just disappointed some people are so vehemently anti consumer they won't even consider Nvidia is in the wrong here, whether it's a game breaking issue or not. Consumer protection laws exist for a reason.

[R_Golden]

The benchmark fallacy assumes the position that because games that they tested had no issues, no issues will be present in further games. It completely undermines the reality (admitted to and verified) that the last 500 MB has extremely slower bandwidth and can create issues when the card tries to access this memory. 

 

I find it strange that you preach "technical definitions" and then don't understand what the word "apologist" means.

 

apologist: a person who defends or supports something (such as a religion, cause, or organization) that is being criticized or attacked by other people

 

That's the literal usage of the word when applied to a subject, it can be used derogatorily but it's still true.  

That first one is a bit of a contradiction considering I have seen you claim this 'benchmark fallacy" toward someone stating the same fact as I have in my previous post.

 

To be an Nvidia apologist would assume you are defending Nvidia itself. Most are arguing that the card itself is not wounded by this issue as much as people claim and those people are claimed to be "Nvidia apologists" it is being used as a generalizing blanket statement which makes the whole argument a fallacy. Leading us back to the irony of your signature.

[Lewellyn]

That first one is a bit of a contradiction considering I have seen you claim this 'benchmark fallacy" toward someone stating the same fact as I have in my previous post.

 

To be an Nvidia apologist would assume you are defending Nvidia itself. Most are arguing that the card itself is not wounded by this issue as much as people claim and those people are claimed to be "Nvidia apologists" it is being used as a generalizing blanket statement which makes the whole argument a fallacy. Leading us back to the irony of your signature.

 

My signature is not ironic. That is what apologist means, making arguments in a defensive position against criticisms. The most popular arguments that are made in defense are the ones I threw in there.  If you want to argue about semantics take it somewhere else, I'm not here to refer you to the dictionary. 

[Razzaa]

I emailed Gigabyte because i was curious about it. I probably wont return my card because i upgrade quite frequently anyway. Below is the response.

 

 

Dear Customer,

Thank you for contacting GIGABYTE about your complaint. Which model of GTX 970 graphic card you have?

We are aware of your concerns and currently working with NVIDIA. NVIDIA has confirmed that the performance of the GTX-970 GPU is not affected. The 4GB of RAM is fully accessible, however, accessed differently. Please review the following link that has been updated with detailed information regarding the issue.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-geforce-gtx-970-specifications,28464.html

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-Discloses-Full-Memory-Structure-and-Limitations-GTX-970

 

If you are not satisfied after reading the full information, please provide your phone number, original purchase invoice, serial number, and address for reference. We will notify you once a process is put in place to help GIGABYTE customers that are not completely satisfied with the product because of these concerns.

 

[zappian]

To people that think nvidia didnt know about this.

An example.

 

Imagine me and 10 other people from LTT were making a bench , everyone worked on the bench and at the end

the bench was wonky.

 

It had 4 legs but one of those was half lenght.

 

We all looked at the bench and we noticed it.

 

Now nvidia made the chips , the card didnt trip and nerf itself.

 

I have heard people make this point , NVIDIA knew about this.

 

They had to.

 

There is not way you can tell me otherwise , and some people have even argued that nvidia was completly clueless to this.

 

Which is impossible.

 

The possibility of that is almost null.

 

Just my two cents .

[Snickerzz]

It is a shame, OK NVIDIA should have been upfront at the beginning but the GTX 970 is still a beast. People need to get over it.

 

3.5GB VRAM, well I wouldn't personally care. If I had bought one I wouldn't be returning it. This whole 'there is something wrong, I want my money back' is getting a little annoying now.

im not returning mine.. its still beast :3

[Guest Kloaked]

Why the fuck do you look at specs of ... let's say a smartphone, if the performance of the device is good?

Why wouldn't just HTC release a high end phone without any specs at a $500 price tag (take into acount the top high end is $700), just by showing the smartphone performs good...but in reality you are paying a premium for a Snapdragon...let's say... 800. Would you buy a tech product with blurred out specs?

That's how your logic is: specs don't matter according to you, only performance.

In the real world: specs are mandatory for obvious reasons... it defines the product.

Sorry, but that is the dumbest analogy that I've seen about this so far.

Luke had a way better one on the WAN show about the cookies.

[Dabombinable]

I emailed Gigabyte because i was curious about it. I probably wont return my card because i upgrade quite frequently anyway. Below is the response.

That is exactly the same email I received when trying to RMA my GTX 970 through Gigabyte, and my issue is not related anyway to the vRAM in any way.

[othertomperson]

 

Just my two cents .

 

You've given a million dollars at this point about a card you never had any interest in owning in the first place.

 

I THINK I'VE FOUND OUT WHY I HAVEN'T HAD ANY ISSUE THO. TURNS OUT NVIDIA LIED. I DON'T HAVE 4GB VRAM. I HAVE 4 TERABYTES. MWHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

I thought this error in rivatuner was funny considering how people still aren't over this.

[Razzaa]

That is exactly the same email I received when trying to RMA my GTX 970 through Gigabyte, and my issue is not related anyway to the vRAM in any way.

Ya generic response for sure. I responded with the info they requested. Wait and see what they come up with.

[Suika]

To people that think nvidia didnt know about this.

I was actually talking to a coworker, who has a Master's in Business Administration, and he says a lack of communication is a large and very well known problem in any business, something I've said before, I just had somebody with papers confirm for me. It's an issue that comes with having such a large business. 

 

It's not a difficult concept to grasp, honestly. I could go up to several people I know who've had personal experience in the world, and they'd confirm for me, from first hand experience, that this is an issue. I'll tell you right now, even at my job, I have to deal with departments that clearly disregard anything and everything I'll request of them until I confront the head of the department.

 

The engineers may have been well aware, but not everybody may have been. 

[mr moose]

And please stop with the analogies, None of them relate properly to the issue.   

 

If I had a car with three legs but one was advertised as wooden then discovered after a bench mark that it only had 300hp and 3 steel wheels then *insert silly conclusion here*

 

Every time a new person comes along and posts their personal feelings on the matter, we get another round of people telling them why they should feel different.  It's getting so long in the tooth that all the threads are being locked because of it.  

[bogus]

Sorry, but that is the dumbest analogy that I've seen about this so far.

Luke had a way better one on the WAN show about the cookies.

Sorry, but that's a pretty dumb post you made: Luke mentioned the difference of the 3,5 + 0,5 VRAM vs 4GB in the cookie annalogy.

I'm talking about buying tech products with the wrong specs, or even without specs. I'm not even talking about the 4GB, that are indeed in the spec sheet. I'm talking about ROPs, bandwidth, and the bus size.

Specs are mandatory for a reason. To have them wrongly listed in a product that sold for 4 months is ilegal.

[Guest Kloaked]

Sorry, but that's a pretty dumb post you made: Luke mentioned the difference of the 3,5 + 0,5 VRAM vs 4GB in the cookie annalogy.

I'm talking about buying tech products with the wrong specs, or even without specs. I'm not even talking about the 4GB, that are indeed in the spec sheet. I'm talking about ROPs, bandwidth, and the bus size.

 

His analogy related to the only important thing with the specs: the VRAM. If you're worried about anything else, then I don't know what to tell you.

[Lewellyn]

And please stop with the analogies, None of them relate properly to the issue.   

 

If I had a car with three legs but one was advertised as wooden then discovered after a bench mark that it only had 300hp and 3 steel wheels then *insert silly conclusion here*

 

Every time a new person comes along and posts their personal feelings on the matter, we get another round of people telling them why they should feel different.  It's getting so long in the tooth that all the threads are being locked because of it.  

 

If people don't listen to regular arguments like "Don't falsely advertise RAM that is segmented into different speeds when you know the customer expects it all to run at the same speed, communicate better with your marketing team - switch the specifications on your sheet to acknowledge the error, and don't pass it off as "working as intended" " then yeah, people resort to using analogies. I agree though, it's annoying that people argue about the semantics of hypotheticals rather than the actual issue.

[bogus]

His analogy related to the only important thing with the specs: the VRAM. If you're worried about anything else, then I don't know what to tell you.

Oh is it?

So for GPUs bandwidth is completly irrelevant, bus size is completly irrelevant... and the rops as well. Right.

For you if a 980ti has 192bit bus, or has under 150GB/s doesn't matter at all!

 

Because all you need need is vram... my god... the things people say to protect a brand... this is a case study material lol...

Oh you don't need to tell me anything else, you presented yourself pretty clearly.

Either way take this note: specs are mandatory. If you only look at the logo, it's not the consumers problem, it's yours... so pretty much, just deal with it. 

[Guest Kloaked]

Oh is it?

So for GPUs bandwidth is completly irrelevant, bus size is completly irrelevant... and the rops as well. Right.

For you if a 980ti has 192bit bus, or has under 150GB/s doesn't matter at all!

 

Because all you need need is vram... my god... the things people say to protect a brand... this is a case study material lol...

Oh you don't need to tell me anything else, you presented yourself pretty clearly.

 

I'm not protecting the brand, nice assumption.

 

I don't think I should have to explain why you're wrong when the information has been circling the internet for weeks.

[bogus]

I'm not protecting the brand, nice assumption.

 

I don't think I should have to explain why you're wrong when the information has been circling the internet for weeks.

You mean the information that was wrong for 4 months and lead people into buying a different product then what was advertised?

[FireFox]

im not returning mine.. its still beast :3

 

Nice to see you with a better PC, bloody Biostar lol

[Faa]

You mean the information that was wrong for 4 months and lead people into buying a different product then what was advertised?

But they got the performance that was advertised, your point being?

[othertomperson]

I was actually talking to a coworker, who has a Master's in Business Administration, and he says a lack of communication is a large and very well known problem in any business, something I've said before, I just had somebody with papers confirm for me. It's an issue that comes with having such a large business. 

 

It's not a difficult concept to grasp, honestly. I could go up to several people I know who've had personal experience in the world, and they'd confirm for me, from first hand experience, that this is an issue. I'll tell you right now, even at my job, I have to deal with departments that clearly disregard anything and everything I'll request of them until I confront the head of the department.

 

The engineers may have been well aware, but not everybody may have been. 

 

If it can happen in an organisation I'm associated with that has like 10 people in it, tops, I'm sure it can happen to a major corporation

[DildorTheDecent]

<- Silliest thing ever. 

[bogus]

But they got the performance that was advertised, your point being?

The specs (what defines the product) were wrong for 4 months.

It's illegal.

 

That's my point.

[Maslofski]

I understand that, but Nvidia is the one who released the advertised specs, so the situation is complicated. 

 

so? you still need to use the chain of command(marketing?), cant just jump over gigabyte and the shops who sell them

[Maslofski]

Why would you refund a coffee?

 

because analogy. instead of 4g of coffein you get 3.5g and another 0.5g that is thinned down.