BMW Drops Its Controversial “Heated Seat Subscription”

[ars3n1k]

Summary

BMW in 2020 thought they could place hardware in cars and then, as they claim, on an as-needed or continual basis you could pay for a subscription service to enable your seat heaters. 
 

Now, while they claim that the customer isn’t paying twice, the initial cost would have to be baked in somewhere right? 
 

They still intend to continue offering software based subscriptions, but not any relating to hardware. 

 

Quotes

Quote

First announced in 2020, the subscription was intended to be one of many ways to offer flexibility to customers, who could opt in to pay for vehicle functions when it suited them, then stop paying when they were no longer wanted.
…

BMW found customer uptake for the heated seats subscription was not high, Nota said, adding: “People feel that they paid double – which was actually not true, but perception is reality, I always say. So that was the reason we stopped that.”

Going forward, BMW drivers can expect to have the option of subscribing to software-based functions like parking assistance.

 

My thoughts

This was a dumb idea to begin with. I could maybe, MAYBE, see if it was a one-time fee to activate them if you didn’t necessarily pay for them at purchase, but a consistent sub? That’s just silly. 
 

 

Sources

 https://www.forbes.com/sites/alistaircharlton/2023/09/07/bmw-drops-controversial-heated-seats-subscription-to-refocus-on-software-services/

[OhioYJ]

The article didn't touch on... What are they doing for those vehicles out there already? Will they just be activating these features? Or will those people have to pay to activate them? Is this policy retroactive? Just going forward? I think we can assume the answer but it would be nice for them to actually answer it.

[JoaoPRSousa]

Never thought I'd see the day... Then again, I was never expecting them to ever do something like this to begin with... Gatekeeping already installed hardware... lol

 

That's modern companies for you I guess.

[ars3n1k]

6 minutes ago, OhioYJ said:

The article didn't touch on... What are they doing for those vehicles out there already? Will they just be activating these features? Or will those people have to pay to activate them? Is this policy retroactive? Just going forward? I think we can assume the answer but it would be nice for them to actually answer it.

Good point

[Alvin853]

This is why we can't have nice things... BMW had a very cool consumer friendly solution but all the "pro consumer" activists totally took the solution out of context and made it seem like a bad deal for the consumer, because that's how these activists get attention and funding, so now the best case scenario. Now everybody has to pay for heated seats, whether they want them or not. How is that a better solution?

[Lurick]

12 minutes ago, Alvin853 said:

This is why we can't have nice things... BMW had a very cool consumer friendly solution but all the "pro consumer" activists totally took the solution out of context and made it seem like a bad deal for the consumer, because that's how these activists get attention and funding, so now the best case scenario. Now everybody has to pay for heated seats, whether they want them or not. How is that a better solution?

Not sure if sarcasm or you're serious...

It's not a one time fee, it's an ongoing payment and if you don't pay you don't get heat and if you want it you pay for it for the life of the car. How is that "pro consumer"?

[Brooksie359]

19 minutes ago, Alvin853 said:

This is why we can't have nice things... BMW had a very cool consumer friendly solution but all the "pro consumer" activists totally took the solution out of context and made it seem like a bad deal for the consumer, because that's how these activists get attention and funding, so now the best case scenario. Now everybody has to pay for heated seats, whether they want them or not. How is that a better solution?

Ah yes because historically people who are buying a BMW want to be able to save money on a car by locking a piece of hardware behind a subscription rather than a one time payment. You realize that the subscription model only works if the people who pay for the heated seats cover the cost increase of all cars including heated seats? Also keep in mind that heated seats probably aren't all that much in terms of cost compared to the whole vehicle and honestly heated seats should be standard anyways on a luxury car like a BMW. 

[Alvin853]

6 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Not sure if sarcasm or you're serious...

It's not a one time fee, it's an ongoing payment and if you don't pay you don't get heat and if you want it you pay for it for the life of the car. How is that "pro consumer"?

So you just read the article and not the original BMW terms I guess? 

 

As someone who actually read the terms from BMW:

You could always order the car with heated seats permanently enabled, for a one time fee, just like you always could.

Or you could decide to get a small discount, order the car without heated seats, but the car still comes with the hardware for heated seats, they're just disabled. This makes sense for BMW because then they only need to manufacture and stock one type of seats, and they found a way to make money after the sale of the car. If you chose this route, you can still at any point make a one-time payment to enable the functionality permanently. Or you can enable it on a subscription for months at a time, if that is something that makes sense for you. Or you can decide to not use the heated seats at all, and pocket the money you saved when ordering the car. This is great, because while you might not see the need for heated seats, when you try to sell the car, the new owner might want to, so they can just purchase the heated seats, which greatly increases the resale value.

 

But activists want to force BMW to physically remove something you didn't pay for from your car, so you don't get the feeling that you paid for it anyway and don't get to use it. Do you really think this will make the cars any cheaper? Well I got news for you...

[Alvin853]

21 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Ah yes because historically people who are buying a BMW want to be able to save money on a car by locking a piece of hardware behind a subscription rather than a one time payment. You realize that the subscription model only works if the people who pay for the heated seats cover the cost increase of all cars including heated seats? Also keep in mind that heated seats probably aren't all that much in terms of cost compared to the whole vehicle and honestly heated seats should be standard anyways on a luxury car like a BMW. 

 

here I have a screencap for you. Heated seats are the equivalent of £15 per month. It’s worth noting that customers can also pay for a £150 ($178) yearly subscription, £250 ($296) three-year subscription or buy the heated seat functionality permanently for £350 ($414).

If you want them permanently just buy the Unlimited package, if you want them every once in a while then what's wrong with a subscription? If you don't want them at all, what's the problem?

[Agall]

29 minutes ago, Alvin853 said:

So you just read the article and not the original BMW terms I guess? 

 

As someone who actually read the terms from BMW:

You could always order the car with heated seats permanently enabled, for a one time fee, just like you always could.

Or you could decide to get a small discount, order the car without heated seats, but the car still comes with the hardware for heated seats, they're just disabled. This makes sense for BMW because then they only need to manufacture and stock one type of seats, and they found a way to make money after the sale of the car. If you chose this route, you can still at any point make a one-time payment to enable the functionality permanently. Or you can enable it on a subscription for months at a time, if that is something that makes sense for you. Or you can decide to not use the heated seats at all, and pocket the money you saved when ordering the car. This is great, because while you might not see the need for heated seats, when you try to sell the car, the new owner might want to, so they can just purchase the heated seats, which greatly increases the resale value.

 

But activists want to force BMW to physically remove something you didn't pay for from your car, so you don't get the feeling that you paid for it anyway and don't get to use it. Do you really think this will make the cars any cheaper? Well I got news for you...

The problem is its arbitrary, where there's seemingly nothing preventing it from being a native feature to the vehicle than as an anti-consumer continuous source of revenue. 

 

Really a symptom of a fundamental problem, where a car company has no prosumer way to make continuous revenue without doing something scummy. Outside of predatory warranty programs or leasing, what possible source of revenue could a company make out of a car than unnecessary subscription programs?

 

Otherwise, you're hoping to reinvent the wheel enough each year to incentivize people to make a poor financial decision and likely replace a perfectly functioning vehicle "because they feel like it". It's not like my 2017 Tacoma TRD will ever need to be replaced outside of part failure that eventually isn't worth it, which can go for decades if you keep up preventative maintenance and have some luck.

[OhioYJ]

2 minutes ago, Alvin853 said:

If you want them permanently just buy the Unlimited package, if you want them every once in a while then what's wrong with a subscription? If you don't want them at all, what's the problem?

Per owner though IIRC.  I think you are overvaluing options, they really have very little value in the used car market. My daily driver that I use for commuting to work, would be a considered a "desirable" model, and according to the blue book value, the difference the heated seats make in private party value  is less than $300. Noting that this car is still also only a couple years old. That is still less than the "unlimited" charge for the heated seats BMW is charging.  When I sell this car to the next person and buy a replacement, the next owner just gets the heated seats, no charge to unlock the hardware that was already there.

[Alvin853]

3 minutes ago, Agall said:

The problem is its arbitrary, where there's seemingly nothing preventing it from being a native feature to the vehicle than a continuous source of revenue. 

 

Really a symptom of a fundamental problem, where a car company has no prosumer way to make continuous revenue without doing something scummy. Outside of predatory warranty programs or leasing, what possible source of revenue could a company make out of a car than unnecessary subscription programs?

 

Otherwise, you're hoping to reinvent the wheel enough each year to incentivize people to make a poor financial decision and likely replace a perfectly functioning vehicle "because they feel like it". It's not like my 2017 Tacoma TRD will ever need to be replaced outside of part failure that eventually isn't worth it, which can go for decades if you keep up preventative maintenance and have some luck.

If you want it to be part of the vehicle forever and not a continuous payment you can just buy the "unlimited" pack. This is the part that the media conveniently leaves out because it makes for a much more sensationalist story that you have to pay subscription fees for the heated seats. BMW never forced anyone to pay a subscription for heated seats, they merely offered it as an alternative to buying the heated seats outright. How is having options as a consumer a bad thing?

[dilpickle]

This is the equivalent of on-disc DLC. Consumer perception will never accept it.

[OhioYJ]

4 hours ago, Alvin853 said:

How is having options as a consumer a bad thing?

The heated seats in my car just work and will continue to work. What happens in these cars when they are "classics" and BMW has shut down the "activation servers" for these options? We've seen this over and over again for other things. They won't be up forever, and then none of this stuff will function. How long do you think BMW will support this, especially as they've admitted it didn't go over that well in the first place?

[SpaceGhostC2C]

1 hour ago, Alvin853 said:

 Now everybody has to pay for heated seats, whether they want them or not.

Last time I checked, people are still free to buy whichever car and whichever model they see fit. Until someone sells modular cars, you are always buying a manufacturer-defined bundle of features, but no one is forced to buy heated seats if they don't want them.

 

39 minutes ago, Alvin853 said:

If you want them permanently just buy the Unlimited package, if you want them every once in a while then what's wrong with a subscription? If you don't want them at all, what's the problem?

The problem is no one was subscribing, so they paid the cost for all those heated seats and made little revenue. Despite all your mentions of "prosumer activists", no law was passed banning this practice, it was withdrawn by BMW itself. They tried something. There was no market for it. That's all that happened here.

 

[Agall]

18 minutes ago, Alvin853 said:

If you want it to be part of the vehicle forever and not a continuous payment you can just buy the "unlimited" pack. This is the part that the media conveniently leaves out because it makes for a much more sensationalist story that you have to pay subscription fees for the heated seats. BMW never forced anyone to pay a subscription for heated seats, they merely offered it as an alternative to buying the heated seats outright. How is having options as a consumer a bad thing?

...

Because its arbitrary, there's nothing other than anti-consumer gatekeeping preventing those seats from acting in their full capacity, without a subscription.

 

Options are nice when they're not artificially created, in this case, it's entirely artificial and arbitrary on why that feature would be disabled. Its not like they're binning the chairs as they come in, figure out some of the heated seat functionality doesn't work, then deciding to disable that feature...

 

If you can't understand why paying more for something that's you technically already bought for arbitrary reasons is anti-consumer, then clearly you're the consumer BMW is targeting.

 

Hilariously cringe scenario here, having to justify why a heated seat subscription is anti-consumer... These companies would add subscriptions for every feature if they could. They'd love for you to own nothing and be happy with a continuous subscription instead.

 

16 minutes ago, dilpickle said:

This is the equivalent of on-disc DLC. Consumer perception will never accept it.

^ Exactly, an entirely arbitrary and artificially created cost.

[Agall]

6 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

The problem is no one was subscribing, so they paid the cost for all those heated seats and made little revenue. Despite all your mentions of "prosumer activists", no law was passed banning this practice, it was withdrawn by BMW itself. They tried something. There was no market for it. That's all that happened here.

 

I imagine people already willing to overpay for a BMW realized how ridiculous it was to pay a subscription for heated seats, so they didn't. Impressive achievement for BMW.

[Brooksie359]

1 hour ago, Alvin853 said:

 

here I have a screencap for you. Heated seats are the equivalent of £15 per month. It’s worth noting that customers can also pay for a £150 ($178) yearly subscription, £250 ($296) three-year subscription or buy the heated seat functionality permanently for £350 ($414).

If you want them permanently just buy the Unlimited package, if you want them every once in a while then what's wrong with a subscription? If you don't want them at all, what's the problem?

The problem is that they could easily save money by having all of the cars come with the heated seat standard and you don't have to have any of this complicated system. I would be willing to bet it would cheaper to have the heated seats standard than to have a convoluted subscription or on time fee model for heated seats especially because the cost they are asking is 350 which is minimal vs the cost of the car and that is what they are asking for not the actual cost. Honestly if you think this model is better then you don't realize the overhead of such a system would undoubtedly cost the customer more money than if they just always included heated seats. I mean it's a BMW why in the world do people need options when they can just always have heated seats like you would expect in a luxury vehicle. 

[ravenshrike]

5 hours ago, Alvin853 said:

This is why we can't have nice things... BMW had a very cool consumer friendly solution but all the "pro consumer" activists totally took the solution out of context and made it seem like a bad deal for the consumer, because that's how these activists get attention and funding, so now the best case scenario. Now everybody has to pay for heated seats, whether they want them or not. How is that a better solution?

Yeah... no. You're still paying BMW's internal part cost for the heated seats. You just weren't paying any profit to BMW for the heated seats. They weren't taking a loss on that shit.

[Beskamir]

They didn't drop it. They shelved it for a few years until the masses are more accepting of microtransations and DLCs in their physical products.

[Beerzerker]

7 hours ago, Alvin853 said:

If you want it to be part of the vehicle forever and not a continuous payment you can just buy the "unlimited" pack. This is the part that the media conveniently leaves out because it makes for a much more sensationalist story that you have to pay subscription fees for the heated seats. BMW never forced anyone to pay a subscription for heated seats, they merely offered it as an alternative to buying the heated seats outright. How is having options as a consumer a bad thing?

Sadly it IS part of the vehicle, no way around it and if it's not removed, it remains a part of it.
 

2 hours ago, ravenshrike said:

Yeah... no. You're still paying BMW's internal part cost for the heated seats. You just weren't paying any profit to BMW for the heated seats. They weren't taking a loss on that shit.

This is the thing of it.
If the heated seat is there, it's there whether it functions or not and you paid for it because it's part of the vehicle.
 

2 hours ago, Beskamir said:

They didn't drop it. They shelved it for a few years until the masses are more accepting of microtransations and DLCs in their physical products.

I agree.
They know the public in general has a short memory so they'll let it stew for awhile and then try to slip it back in later under a different guise. They'll allow time for the subscription concept to become more "Normalized" in the mind of the public at large and then try it again later.
 
The idea is to get you to pay for AND KEEP PAYING for the stuff that's part of it when you buy the vehicle in the first place.
If I could sell you something and then have you to pay me for it over and over again just to use it, that's just pure profit for me.

It's kinda like cellphones and their service, which is a form of it that's been around for a long time now.

You pay a huge amount of $$ just to get one in your hands and then you have to pay a monthly bill just to use it - Then later you "Upgrade" to a newer model by buying yet another one at an even higher price and the cycle repeats itself endlessly.

You buy it, pay to use it, buy another to upgrade to a newer model, pay to use it, buy another to upgrade to a newer model, pay to use it, buy another to upgrade to a newer model......
I mean it doesn't take much genius to see the pattern here with cellphones and it's a similar (Just not the same/identical) concept to a subscription service with these seats because the base concept is still there.
Pay over and over again just to use it after you've already paid for the device/hardware itself.

[HenrySalayne]

 

7 hours ago, Alvin853 said:

This makes sense for BMW because then they only need to manufacture and stock one type of seats

7 hours ago, Alvin853 said:

Or you can decide to not use the heated seats at all, and pocket the money you saved when ordering the car.

There is only one party saving money here - and it's not the customer...

[Kisai]

9 hours ago, Alvin853 said:

So you just read the article and not the original BMW terms I guess? 

 

As someone who actually read the terms from BMW:

You could always order the car with heated seats permanently enabled, for a one time fee, just like you always could.

Or you could decide to get a small discount, order the car without heated seats, but the car still comes with the hardware for heated seats, they're just disabled. This makes sense for BMW because then they only need to manufacture and stock one type of seats, and they found a way to make money after the sale of the car

 

The only reason why someone might want a "subscription" to heated seats is if it cut a huge chunk of money off the sticker price, and they only needed the heated seats for 2 months of the year, like in Northern Europe or northeastern parts of the US or most of Canada.

 

Otherwise any kind of "subscription" hardware should be relegated to features that have a software connection, like XM Radio or concierge service (which is what GM's Onstar service was marketed as.) 

 

Even then, I'd say a physical hardware module should actually be added/removed at the dealership. Not "remotely deactivated" when the subscription expires, because the last thing you need is a service (Eg GPS) stop working in the middle of someone's trip when they rely on it, and have no means of re-activating it.

 

[Brooksie359]

2 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

Sadly it IS part of the vehicle, no way around it and if it's not removed, it remains a part of it.
 

This is the thing of it.
If the heated seat is there, it's there whether it functions or not and you paid for it because it's part of the vehicle.
 

I agree.
They know the public in general has a short memory so they'll let it stew for awhile and then try to slip it back in later under a different guise. They'll allow time for the subscription concept to become more "Normalized" in the mind of the public at large and then try it again later.
 
The idea is to get you to pay for AND KEEP PAYING for the stuff that's part of it when you buy the vehicle in the first place.
If I could sell you something and then have you to pay me for it over and over again just to use it, that's just pure profit for me.

It's kinda like cellphones and their service, which is a form of it that's been around for a long time now.

You pay a huge amount of $$ just to get one in your hands and then you have to pay a monthly bill just to use it - Then later you "Upgrade" to a newer model by buying yet another one at an even higher price and the cycle repeats itself endlessly.

You buy it, pay to use it, buy another to upgrade to a newer model, pay to use it, buy another to upgrade to a newer model, pay to use it, buy another to upgrade to a newer model......
I mean it doesn't take much genius to see the pattern here with cellphones and it's a similar (Just not the same/identical) concept to a subscription service with these seats because the base concept is still there.
Pay over and over again just to use it after you've already paid for the device/hardware itself.

I mean you are paying for access to the network when you pay monthly to your phone company. Upkeep of cellphone towers and other infrastructure isn't cheap. Also keep in mind that there was a time in history where things were built to last a super long time and this was a huge contributing factor to the great depression. Turns out that if you sell something and people only need to buy your product once in their life then you are going to run into huge issues when most people already own your product. 

[Beerzerker]

1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

I mean you are paying for access to the network when you pay monthly to your phone company. Upkeep of cellphone towers and other infrastructure isn't cheap. Also keep in mind that there was a time in history where things were built to last a super long time and this was a huge contributing factor to the great depression. Turns out that if you sell something and people only need to buy your product once in their life then you are going to run into huge issues when most people already own your product. 

  

I never said access was free or that there isn't a certain amount of cost involved with maintaining infrastructure or that the thing about seats was identical in nature because it isn't.

My point was related to the thing about the seats - Like it or not it's still you paying for it simply to use after the purchase of the hardware is done. In the case of cellphones, that's more or less a given but even with that it's still true, like it or not.

In the case of heated seats there are no additional costs simply to use aside from any maintenance issues that may come later, which you, the owner of these seats will probrably be on the hook for anyway.

1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

Also keep in mind that there was a time in history where things were built to last a super long time and this was a huge contributing factor to the great depression. Turns out that if you sell something and people only need to buy your product once in their life then you are going to run into huge issues when most people already own your product. 

While I do understand the point you're making here and while it does apply in part - That's also incorrect.

The base thing that drove the depression was a simple matter of too many outstanding loans and credit with not enough real money to pay back the debt when it came due.

I'll give a bit of a (Long) summary about it here with some relevant points.

First off - Note this wasn't an instantaneous effect because the total amount of debt accumilated over time but the "Bubble" of outstanding debt grew to the point it had to burst at some point, so it finally did - Worldwide to be exact with this being largely a blanket effect across the globe.

When it did, there simply wasn't enough real money available from "Us" coming in terms of purchases and business in general (Mainly common folk and small businesses at the time) to pay it all back.

The majority of common folk at that time, everywhere worldwide weren't exactly getting rich working their jobs with many barely making enough to simply get by, prices of things slowly going up as always and so folks eventually got behind - Way behind in many cases.

Didn't help the recently ended war (WWI) was having an effect as well as in "After effects" because some countries were so poor and owed so much debt they were struggling period just to make ends meet if they could at all.

Related to "Us":
Big businesses depended on "Us" to buy their wares as a major part of their own income from everyday sales (Related to your point to an extent) but if you, being one of "Us" have no spare money or just money in general in the first place, do you really think you'll get it for free instead just because you want it?
Nope.

Someone has to pay the workers to gather the raw materials, haul it to processing plants, then haul the finished product of their work to other plants/manufacturers so things can be made from it.
The work to actually make these products had to be done, make sure it actually works when completed, ship it and then to sell it along with backing up what you sold (Warranty/Repairs).

All that has to be paid for itself as part of the cost of just having it.

People don't work for free you know (Unless you happen to be a slave) but in this case, while the majority were getting paid it simply wasn't enough all total to help counter all the accumilated debt that grew because of the rest getting things on credit, loans made (Many of these were bad loans too) and all the rest that came with it. 

That BTW doesn't mean common folks like us didn't loans ourselves or were trying to skip on them, however it does show there were enough trying to "Have it all and have it all right now for free" while not worrying about how much debt was being accumilated because of their own actions (In part at the very least) to drive this along.

So.... The money didn't show and here we go:

Defaults on loans and the like took place, resulting in a domino effect across the entire market because all the rest coudn't absorb the difference - Jobs were lost, plants shut down and that was probrably the biggest driving force behind it.
Lack of money from "Us" caused the burden to grow, it became too great for the rest of the market to handle and there it all went like dominoes.... Right down the tubes.

That's why debt, in truth is a bad thing.

You can't chalk it up being due to just "One Thing" aside from it's root cause (Too many outstanding loans and credit out there with not enough real money to pay back the debt when it came due) because there were many reasons and causes of it with some being bigger contributors than others towards the problem as you'd expect it to be.

My parents and grandparents lived through all of it, the after-effects leading up to WWII as well and made sure we, being their children understood why it happened in the first place so maybe we woudn't "Help" to repeat the same mistakes that caused it ourselves.

So yeah - I've had a REAL history lesson from those that lived it.
 
It was called the "Roaring 20's" for good reason - Many living the good life without a care in the world about whom or how it was going to be paid back and it eventually caught up with them and everyone else as a consequense.

As it's been said before, the actions of a few can affect all the rest because it can.
All we can do as individuals is to try not to be part of the problem ourselves and hope the rest won't be either.