HP Printers requiring Ink for the scanner to function

[Rysters Tech]

Summary

HP All in one printers (which is a printer, fax machine, scanner all built into one unit) requiring ink to scan or fax, even though the only reason the ink is needed is that HP says so.

 

Quotes

Quote

[Source: Associated Press]

 On Aug. 10, a federal judge ruled that HP Inc. must face a class-action lawsuit claiming that the company designs its “all-in-one” inkjet printers to disable scanning and faxing functions whenever a single printer ink cartridge runs low. The company had sought — for the second time — to dismiss the lawsuit on technical legal grounds.

“It is well-documented that ink is not required in order to scan or to fax a document, and it is certainly possible to manufacture an all-in-one printer that scans or faxes when the device is out of ink,” the plaintiffs wrote in their complaint. “Indeed, HP designs its all-in-one printer products so they will not work without ink. Yet HP does not disclose this fact to consumers.”

My thoughts

The fact that HP requires ink to be present for the scanner part of the printer to work is unbelievably anti-consumer, because anyone who even has a rough idea of how a scanner functions will know that it does not need ink to scan a document and convert it to a digital file (usually a .png) for viewing and transmission on a computer, phone or whatever it is. Standalone scanners which do not contain a printer have existed for a long time and still do to some extent, but not one of them even has a way to feed the machine an ink cartridge, as the machine couldn't do anything with it. 

 

To be very clear here, HP is not the only one to pull this kind of a stunt, but it the most recently covered and notable. It seems that HP is trying to force users of their products to buy ink from them even if there is no actual need for it, and if you are only scanning pages, there is no need. The excuse of this being a bug doesn't hold any water, if it was a bug, well HP has had years to fix it, and so far it seems they havent. 

 

Sources

https://apnews.com/article/hp-printers-scanner-disabled-low-ink-9d8a0e3b5b49bb408467f7f75735ab0a https://www.courthousenews.com/class-action-against-hp-over-all-in-one-printers-survives-motion-to-dismiss/ https://www.classaction.org/blog/design-flaw-hp-printers-wont-scan-fax-when-ink-is-low-class-action-alleges

[jaslion]

2 minutes ago, Rysters Tech said:

but it the most recent and notable

Recent? My 2006 hp does this too

 

Granted just a strip of aluminium foil to connect the pins makes it happy and work

 

 

[Rysters Tech]

12 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Recent? My 2006 hp does this too

 

Granted just a strip of aluminium foil to connect the pins makes it happy and work

 

 

I meant most recently covered by news, and the article has been adjusted to convey that, but either way i wish that were surprising.

[PocketNerd]

Corps gonna corp, more news at 11

[post_screen]

What is a "good" printer brand nowadays? It seems like all of them have practices or history of doing stuff like this. I don't know what to recommend to people any more

[EllieCat]

HP tends make their products like this. Kind of ridiculous right?

[Taf the Ghost]

Pretty sure my Canons have also done this for years?

[LAwLz]

Wait, seriously?

I have an HP printer and I can scan with it, despite my ink being empty. Is this a new thing? An old thing? Something that only happens in certain regions?

Knowing how frivolous some lawsuits are, and how technologically illiterate a lot of people can be, I honestly question if this lawsuit is accurate.

I mean, one of the articles claims HP "bricks scanners" which I think is a very big stretch. Disable the function? Yes. But when I hear "brick"  used as a verb I think of irreversible damage, not just temporarily shutting something off. I wouldn't say "Microsoft bricked by computer" if they inactivated my Windows license for example.

 

 

There are a lot of reasons we can hate on printers, but this seems a bit too cartoonishly evil, and it doesn't align with my experience so I will withhold judgment until some more evidence is presented.

Apparently, Canon was sued for the same thing two years ago and settled outside of court. I wonder what happened with that.

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

5 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Wait, seriously?

I have an HP printer and I can scan with it, despite my ink being empty. Is this a new thing? An old thing? Something that only happens in certain regions?

Knowing how frivolous some lawsuits are, and how technologically illiterate a lot of people can be, I honestly question if this lawsuit is accurate.

I mean, one of the articles claims HP "bricks scanners" which I think is a very big stretch. Disable the function? Yes. But when I hear "brick"  used as a verb I think of irreversible damage, not just temporarily shutting something off. I wouldn't say "Microsoft bricked by computer" if they inactivated my Windows license for example.

 

 

There are a lot of reasons we can hate on printers, but this seems a bit too cartoonishly evil, and it doesn't align with my experience so I will withhold judgment until some more evidence is presented.

Apparently, Canon was sued for the same thing two years ago and settled outside of court. I wonder what happened with that.

It's complicated, it really depends on who made it. Like some of the bigger HP cutting plotters are actually rebadged units from Summa, etc. HP also bought Samsung's printer division a couple of years ago, so some of their products are in fact rebadged old Samsung units that have exactly zero-DRM and will accept anything that smells even remotely like a toner. Which is to say, it's a minefield and you really got to check online what you're getting if you buy HP printers, because some of them have "legendary" DRM. (I especially like the part where it locks up your printer permanently if you ever subscribe to the ink refill program for example.)

 

All of which is to say, HP Inc. is cartoonishly evil, and as far as I'm concerned the real HP legacy is carried on by Keysight. The only thing HP has going for them is that they're not quite as evil as Nestle, Oracle, or Lexmark, but I'm sure they're working on it.

[jaslion]

51 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I have an HP printer and I can scan with it, despite my ink being empty. Is this a new thing? An old thing? Something that only happens in certain regions?

Usually an oversight or you paid for a ultra deluxe one or a yearly refresh throwaway.

 

A lot have this feature of no work till ink but a good few were basically forgotten.

[Sousuke]

Unfortunatly consumer printers (Especially HP) are notoriously known for pulling this sort of things with limiting functionality due to a lack of ink.

 

Some printers have even been known to have this "feature" added via a firmware update so if you have a printer that doesn't have this "feature" then I would research the firmware updates before applying them.

 

Needless to say printers continue to be one of the worst consumer devices. 

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

18 minutes ago, Sousuke said:

Unfortunatly consumer printers (Especially HP) are notoriously known for pulling this sort of things with limiting functionality due to a lack of ink.

 

Some printers have even been known to have this "feature" added via a firmware update so if you have a printer that doesn't have this "feature" then I would research the firmware updates before applying them.

 

Needless to say printers continue to be one of the worst consumer devices. 

As a general rule, unless if they're network connected or have issues, never update printer firmware.

[Kisai]

5 hours ago, Rysters Tech said:

Quotes

My thoughts

The fact that HP requires ink to be present for the scanner part of the printer to work is unbelievably anti-consumer,

 

IMO, given HP (and Canon)'s previous behavior in regards to inkjets, this comes as no surprise. 

 

https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/11/23067867/canon-hp-class-action-lawsuit-scan-without-ink-settlement

https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2022/1/11/22878850/canon-printer-ink-toner-break-drm-chip-shortage-fake

 

Benefit of the doubt, the printer probably only uses one logic board for both the scanner and printer. So having no ink probably raises an error to "resolve" before the multifunction printer sends an "OK" to the driver.

 

But no, HP, Canon, Epson, etc have all been pulling this since the '90's where first it was the expensive ink, then they started putting chips in the ink tanks so you couldn't refill them. So I'm pretty confident in saying this was deliberate.

 

Jokes on them, I have a separate scanner. The multi-function printer I have is at least 18 years old. The scanner is newer. I would suggest to people to eliminate the printer, and if you need to print something badly, take it to work (if you work in an office) or go to the UPS/Fedex store/Staples/Public Library to print it.

 

[Mrtoyou]

Yeah, I'm pretty much done with HP printers. My next printer will be an Epson most likely.

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

2 minutes ago, Mrtoyou said:

Yeah, I'm pretty much done with HP printers. My next printer will be an Epson most likely.

Epson ain't much better, look into getting a Brother printer if you really need one. Brother mostly seems to have stayed away from the really sketchy stuff.

 

Edit: But do check for the specific model you wish to get, they're not all good.

[WolframaticAlpha]

4 hours ago, post_screen said:

What is a "good" printer brand nowadays? It seems like all of them have practices or history of doing stuff like this. I don't know what to recommend to people any more

Brother

[williamcll]

7 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

12 hours ago, post_screen said:

What is a "good" printer brand nowadays? It seems like all of them have practices or history of doing stuff like this. I don't know what to recommend to people any more

Brother

This, takes third party parts like nobody's business.

[SansVarnic]

Went over an pulled my toner out and the scanner worked. Must be limited to certain models.

[DildorTheDecent]

For those wondering what printers are specifically mentioned in the complaint that have the issue:

• HP Deskjet 2755e
• HP DeskJet 3755
• HP DeskJet 4155e
• HP ENVY 6055e
• HP ENVY 6075
• HP ENVY 6455e
• HP ENVY Pro 6475
• HP OfficeJet 250 Mobile
• HP OfficeJet Pro 7740 Wide Format
• HP OfficeJet Pro 8025
• HP DeskJet 2622
• HP DeskJet 2655

PDF: https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/hp-all-in-one-amended-complaint.pdf

[SansVarnic]

Figured it was certain models.

Possibly its a firmware bug or possibly intentional thing, hard to make a copy from a scan if there is no ink. But I understand the frustration if our only scanning to pc and that ends up stopping you from the scan. /shrug.

[BondiBlue]

On 8/17/2023 at 2:34 PM, post_screen said:

What is a "good" printer brand nowadays? It seems like all of them have practices or history of doing stuff like this. I don't know what to recommend to people any more

Brother is the only printer brand I'll willingly buy unless I have a very specific reason to get something else. I've owned multiple Brother printers over the years, and my current inkjet is an all-in-one Brother unit that is several years old. It just sits on my home network and works like a charm (as long as the ink cartridges are fine), and it doesn't even require extra drivers for at least Windows and macOS. 

[bcredeur97]

the funny thing is this could just be a product of lazy programming. 

"if there's an error dont do anything"

instead of using some logic to determine if the error is even related to/interferes with a certain function.

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

50 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

the funny thing is this could just be a product of lazy programming. 

"if there's an error dont do anything"

instead of using some logic to determine if the error is even related to/interferes with a certain function.

Nah, that's their excuse in court, plausible deniability etc. I've seen assholes at work propose similar things for other devices, and some folks just go along with it instead of pointing out it breaks the universal first rule.

[manikyath]

On 8/18/2023 at 12:21 AM, Kisai said:

 

Benefit of the doubt, the printer probably only uses one logic board for both the scanner and printer. So having no ink probably raises an error to "resolve" before the multifunction printer sends an "OK" to the driver.

that's exactly what happens. the only thing that is "malice" here in the "do not ascribe to malice" thing, is that HP's enterprise gear allows you to "nope" the errors and continue printing after you agree that doing so might degrade print quality.

 

also - this is a news thing every other month, when yet another news outlet's freelance writer has this with their preferred flavour of home scan/print combo. at thsi point i wonder if any of them owns a brother printer, or if all of them just go to the big box store, and buy the shiniest box..

 

as for the ink cartridge chip thing.. it's such a garbage thing to do, but so is what the 3rd party ink guys are doing.. there is at least one "cheap ink screw big corpo" vendor here who will sell you a HP printer, sell you their aftermarket cartridges for said printer, and then when their shit-ass ink makes a mess on their shit-ass paper blame HP for the problem... yet they do not sell brother printers that do not have this problem to begin with. it really is a case of "everyone in this argument is wrong, and either way the consumer is screwed."

[OhioYJ]

On 8/19/2023 at 5:00 PM, DildorTheDecent said:

For those wondering what printers are specifically mentioned in the complaint that have the issue:

• HP Deskjet 2755e
• HP DeskJet 3755
• HP DeskJet 4155e
• HP ENVY 6055e
• HP ENVY 6075
• HP ENVY 6455e
• HP ENVY Pro 6475
• HP OfficeJet 250 Mobile
• HP OfficeJet Pro 7740 Wide Format
• HP OfficeJet Pro 8025
• HP DeskJet 2622
• HP DeskJet 2655

PDF: https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/hp-all-in-one-amended-complaint.pdf

Thank you. I remember as I watched Louis's video on this and read a story about it, no where did anyone mention what printers this was about. In fairness I was thinking that HP does sell some models cheaper that require a subscription to their ink service. For example the laser printer on my desk has a model like that. I paid more and got a version that didn't have that restriction. So when I heard this story, I was wondering if this was one of those kind of deals?