Madison reveals experiences working at LMG

[ginsardi]

8 hours ago, kalleth said:

That's......bad. I'm glad the GN video has provided the "air cover" as it were for Madison to feel comfortable explaining her experiences.

 

To me, this is far worse than the GN accusations or Linus's tone deaf response to them.

 

Even if you ignore the deplorable - for LMG - accusations of sexual comments/other inappropriate behaviour (which you really, really can't -- but I'm assuming a small section of this forum will focus entirely on them), the rest of what she describes is still an incredibly toxic workplace, and not somewhere anyone should want to work.

 

I applaud Madison for speaking up, it can't have been easy.

If it's true... The credibility of someone who would cut themselves to miss a day of work is less than ideal. That said, if there is any validity in anything she's stating, she needs a lawyer, not a tweet, or x, or whatever we're calling it today...

[Alloy2219]

8 hours ago, Legitsu said:

please stop assuming that the random women on the twitter isn't lieing 

timing is pretty sus so what she was slient for 2 years and picks now to say something?

if anything she said was true any court on the planet would have had a field day 

 

or we really gonna bite for the old 'female victum routine' 

Why immediately dismiss it as some routine. Listen to what they have to say and see how LMG responds. If it's a lie LMG could go after Madison for defamation, no? Just slow down and wait to hear more before just completely throwing out and pretty damning account about someone's experience. 

[Sawa Takahashi]

17 minutes ago, JustACityBoy said:

The reason she's saying it now because if she said it earlier she would be dismissed as someone looking for attention! Doing it now makes more sense because people will tend to be more attentive to issues! It's why metoo was such a big thing because it allowed for a large sway of people to made credible allegations without having their careers sidelined.

I never talked about timing. Just that we should refrain to accuse and assume. I believe that if Madison waited all that time while suffering and being afraid just because she wanted the right timing... that was not a good thing to do for herself nor anyone else.

My point is clearer now ?

[DaytonaDragon]

3 minutes ago, Adept_Austin said:

Actually it was a fact the whole time. Even before it was proven.

Actually, it wasn't. It "evolved" from something. 

[DakotaCx]

2 minutes ago, RWxAshley said:

Alright. This discussion has derailed into whataboutisms, and fragile attempts at finding a means of discrediting her through such wild claims of "Being unprofessional, young, immature, mentally unstable, asking for it, shouldn't dress/act like that" And so many other really sexist and disturbing takes on this forum from members of this community.

As a woman working in the the industry these are the exact issues I see that cause this shit to go untalked about, and then when we do eventually feel safe talking about it we get accused of "Why wait so long? Seems sus with the timing. Must be for clout, or must be another Amber heard. I didn't take these seriously before, but now I can use that case for the next 20 years to rationalize why I'll never take any woman seriously ever again. It must just be that time of the month, or her being crazy"

This forum thread only serves as an example of why this shit happened, continues to happen to woman in the industry, and why it doesn't get talked about as nobody is actually ready to have this discussion. They just want to continue pretending nothing is wrong with the industry in general, and can't fathom the tech industry is a boys club with many men holding poor views on woman.

This is why it takes so long to even attempt to talk about this serious topic. This forum is exactly why I believe Madison so much more thanks to visiting this thread because folks in here are quick to dismiss any claims instead of thinking about it, and take them seriously. This is the exact culture the tech industry breeds, and why most want nothing to do with it.

I think you're falling into the trap of listening to a few loud voices of many. I don't believe any anonymous forum is ever going to be the right venue for true honest and genuine talks about serious topics. I think you know that too. Nobody coming here, yourself included, is coming to have their opinion swayed. 

[Middcore]

1 minute ago, DakotaCx said:

I don't think that's true. 

If what she is saying is true she can drop the names of those who made the comments, certainly those that grabbed her, as well as the managers that failed to respond. Give specifics around those circumstances, general timeframes, situations, witnesses to it, etc. 

 

 

How would any of this constitute proof?

 

She could say "(Employee X) grabbed me on (date) in (area of the office) and I told (Manager Y) about it but nothing was done"

 

Employee X and Manager Y would then just go "That's not true" (if they responded at all).

 

If she named names and God forbid it was any of the parasocial fanboys' on-camera favorites she'd just get even more hate than I'm sure she's getting now, and the same people would be decrying lack of evidence.

 

 

[HesCalledTheStig]

Just now, ginsardi said:

If it's true... The credibility of someone who would cut themselves to miss a day of work is less than ideal. That said, if there is any validity in anything she's stating, she needs a lawyer, not a tweet, or x, or whatever we're calling it today...

My thoughts exactly.  I could go on social media and make a ton of claims right now as well.  But until I go to the proper channels, it's all just accusation.  and I AM NOT saying she's lying.  Just curious about her thought process.

[ginsardi]

3 minutes ago, DakotaCx said:

I don't think that's true. 

If what she is saying is true she can drop the names of those who made the comments, certainly those that grabbed her, as well as the managers that failed to respond. Give specifics around those circumstances, general timeframes, situations, witnesses to it, etc. 

 

To a lawyer. Not to Twitter, or Reddit, or LTT Forum, or X, or wherever. She needs a lawyer, otherwise, everyone is just going to chalk this up to attention-seeking and false accusations, which if she does have any mental issues, is only going to exacerbate them.

[Fuudge]

Just now, 0catt said:

Is not about picking a side.

There are no sides to "pick"

 Can't you see that your literal fan-ing on a company is showing clearly in your statement?

Madison is a singular, LMG is a corporation made of multiple people. 

People are choosing to protect LMG because of what? The make good videos that make you laugh once in a while, really?

Sure the accusations may not be true, but the point here is that until there is factual proof, the person could be suffering from this, while many people disregard her statement because they choose not to "believe" it. 

This is a very serious issue, not even talking legally.

No person, men or woman should ever have to feel like that in their work env, and we know that cases like this happened all the time, so why is her story less credible? 

My heart is with her, and we should be showing her support because no one deserves that treatment.

It's about doing the right thing for the person, because if its not true, the story is forgotten and everyone moves away, but if its true that person may see all of this and make her mental health situation go even worse

I am not fan-ing, I am not protecting LMG.

I will shit all over Linus and LMG or any employee for that matter if/when there is enough information to do so.

I am just pointing out that same as we should not hold this company on a pedastal and hold them excempt from any responsibility for any reason, we should not take any one person's accusations at face value either.

And I don't agree with the "that until there is factual proof" they should be treated as guilty.

 

Let's say that you and I both went to the LTX and now I'm coming out and saying you grabbed me inappropriately, made sexual remarks to me etc.

Should I get support just because I am the accuser? Should you be treated guilty even though I presented no proof just because you are the accused?

 

And ofc. noone should ever have to feel that way, noone deserves that treatment ofc. If she was made to feel that way, treated that way people should be hold responsible yes I def. agree.

You are correct right thing to do for everyone is to hold everyone accountable, don't let this to be forgotten. But until more comes to light the right thing to do is not declare anyone guilty.

 

And no we don't have to support her, because we don't know the whole story and I definetly beleive that she hasn't shown enough to be believed right away. I don't want to end up supporting someone's false claims if that's what it ends up being. But also given the possibility of these allegations being true, she should not be treated as a liar or attention seeker or anything else either.

 

Any and all judgement should be reserved until there is more information, and from both sides is my only point.

[kurangak]

from the expose she did today, shes probably gonna get alot of offers from lawyers willing to help her build a case against LTT.

 

id only gonna believe what shes saying if shes takes action to bring LTT to court
 

otherwise, ill just pass it off as a disgruntled ex employee taking a dig at her ex company during their PR crisis

[djksm]

Just now, HesCalledTheStig said:

My thoughts exactly.  I could go on social media and make a ton of claims right now as well.  But until I go to the proper channels, it's all just accusation.  and I AM NOT saying she's lying.  Just curious about her thought process.

yeah i could say i got f'ed by linus but no one would belive that until it was true

[HolographicOne]

1 minute ago, Sawa Takahashi said:

So, if I want to hurt a company I just have to make claims on social media and I'll get unconditional support from everyone ?

Please, take time to see the potential abuse.

I am sure there are things that need to be resolved between all the parties involved. But declaring that Madison is a victim and should be avenged is not an appropriate nor constructive behavior. If I was close to Madison, I'd be helping her finding help in the form of a legal adviser and a counsellor.

Let's assume that things really happened like Madison said. Do you think Madison needs people help her twack Linus and LMG out of existence or someone to help her take decisions about her future ?

And before you say that I don't know what women experience in an office environment... Sawa is a female name and I work in an office environment.

Be cool everyone !

I have to agree here, putting recent events into consideration. This isn't the first Twitter (X) thread of this nature. The details have changed each time.
Where did the "I read it on social media, there's the proof" begin? We've just started learning about cases of false accusations for clout on various outlets.
People claiming to have been abducted on IG - Here Here Here that were false. I could paste these all day because they are in the news daily. 
Why? I ask myself this same question. I hope that no victim goes without punishment, but I also hope that false accusers also have repercussions. 
We cannot know the truth. Only the parties involved know for certain, and we don't even know who the entire cast and crew accused, actually are.
 

[djksm]

18 minutes ago, ShadowDev said:

people here are disgusting. defending linus even when theres clear Sexual Harassment. Trying to make the victim feel like its their fault, trying to find any reason to deflect it back at them... 

cannot wait for this channel and community to be gone. 

how do you know?????? by some ex-employee on twitter?

[divito]

13 minutes ago, JustACityBoy said:

The reason she's saying it now because if she said it earlier she would be dismissed as someone looking for attention! Doing it now makes more sense because people will tend to be more attentive to issues! It's why metoo was such a big thing because it allowed for a large sway of people to made credible allegations without having their careers sidelined.

The only problem with this perspective is that after GN's attack, there has never been more attention on LMG. For someone that had a job that was literally seeking attention, and appears she's currently trying to be in the public sphere still, this is a perfect storm.

Her allegations also lose weight because seeing her content is exactly what she was complaining about. She speaks of mental health, but her actions showcase that she hasn't appropriately dealt with things through a professional. The other aspect is that a lot of her complaints sound like she was unable to deal with performance reviews. Whether her quotes are accurate from a manager or coworker are relevant, and whether she was exaggerating, it's a certain mindset that believes that they can do no wrong and aren't subject to criticism. 

If there are aspects of her testimony that are true, then hopefully LMG can appropriately deal with them and the perpetrators, and she seeks professional help. If nothing appears to be valid, then she'll still need to seek professional help.

[djksm]

1 minute ago, dago_mcj said:

That's interesting. I wonder what video that might have been.

he did not say it but in the extreme intel tech upgrade he hung up art with some "suggestive material"

[RWxAshley]

8 minutes ago, DakotaCx said:

I don't think that's true. 

If what she is saying is true she can drop the names of those who made the comments, certainly those that grabbed her, as well as the managers that failed to respond. Give specifics around those circumstances, general timeframes, situations, witnesses to it, etc. 

 

If she released the names publicly she would be doxxing, and causing harassment towards them by the internet. I fully expect this to be handled privately, and internally so as to not cause an internet man hunt. (Something that many in this thread would be accusing her of doing if she did release names of staff, and doxxed them.)

Her ultimate issue is with the culture that lead to her being harassed, and its why she made it clear she reached out to senior management in her post. She wanted these issues fixed internally and to be resolved. LMG failed to resolve her issues.

[goodtofufriday]

7 minutes ago, Middcore said:

Most of the people here talking about "proof" and "evidence" would only ever accept a standard of proof that they know full well is vanishingly unlikely to exist in cases like this. 

 

Because Madison didn't wear a wire like she was doing an FBI mafia sting operation to record people insulting and sexually harassing her, there will never be any "proof" for these people and so they will bury their heads in the sand. And even if she did that and a recording existed they'd say it was deceptively edited, a deepfake, etc.

 

 

Proof enough would probably be other people verifying her story as first hand witnesses. 

A good portion of her allegations imply to me that there were other people in the room who either heard what happened, or recieved her report of things that happened. 

 

So at a minimum, if anything she says is true, there has to be some level of corroboration from other person's at LMG or other previous employees. 

 

Honest question.

Is that much fair to expect? I am a bit autistic so I take words literally a lot of times, and I try my best to have more than 1 or 2 sources of information. I also am always second guessing myself as a result of being Aut. 

[djksm]

If madison had mental health issues, she should have gottenhelp

[0catt]

1 minute ago, Fuudge said:

I am not fan-ing, I am not protecting LMG.

I will shit all over Linus and LMG or any employee for that matter if/when there is enough information to do so.

I am just pointing out that same as we should not hold this company on a pedastal and hold them excempt from any responsibility for any reason, we should not take any one person's accusations at face value either.

And I don't agree with the "that until there is factual proof" they should be treated as guilty.

 

Let's say that you and I both went to the LTX and now I'm coming out and saying you grabbed me inappropriately, made sexual remarks to me etc.

Should I get support just because I am the accuser? Should you be treated guilty even though I presented no proof just because you are the accused?

 

And ofc. noone should ever have to feel that way, noone deserves that treatment ofc. If she was made to feel that way, treated that way people should be hold responsible yes I def. agree.

You are correct right thing to do for everyone is to hold everyone accountable, don't let this to be forgotten. But until more comes to light the right thing to do is not declare anyone guilty.

 

And no we don't have to support her, because we don't know the whole story and I definetly beleive that she hasn't shown enough to be believed right away. I don't want to end up supporting someone's false claims if that's what it ends up being. But also given the possibility of these allegations being true, she should not be treated as a liar or attention seeker or anything else either.

 

Any and all judgement should be reserved until there is more information, and from both sides is my only point.

I respect your point, and I understand your position. 

I can understand you not wanting to side with her, but at the same time, from my past experiences, I believe, for me, its very important to not disregard her in any way like many people in the forum are doing.

[DakotaCx]

Just now, Middcore said:

 

How would any of this constitute proof?

 

She could say "(Employee X) grabbed me on (date) in (area of the office) and I told (Manager Y) about it but nothing was done"

 

Employee X and Manager Y would then just go "That's not true" (if they responded at all).

 

If she named names and God forbid it was any of the parasocial fanboys' on-camera favorites she'd just get even more hate than I'm sure she's getting now, and the same people would be decrying lack of evidence.

 

 

1) To be clear, it's not proof on it's own. But it's certainly more verifiable with that information, and thereby more credible if it can be verified. 
2) The accused could certainly claim it wasn't them, but the witnesses would also have to go along with this too, which shifts into conspiracy.
3) I don't believe the "hate" she's allegedly getting, overall very mild from what I'm seeing here albeit I'm not looking elsewhere, is going to be a problem for her considering the #JusticeForMadison crusaders and white knights and such that are fanatically supporting her now. She frames herself as an internet personality, she does Twitch streams, she sells her brand on Twitter, she is likely not a stranger to this sort of thing

[wanderingfool2]

  

  

8 hours ago, RasmusDC said:

This is an old thing. i think this has been debated to the end, like also the sexual harrasment case (with that 3d print youtuber, i think she is called YU) there is no evidence in anything. there is indications, so this is completely different thing that what is being discussed here.

 

there is also always two sides, are the load too high, or are the work ethics too low. i think it can be hard to get to the bottom of this.

It was Naomi Wu; although in Wu's case I think any trust in Wu's account of events fell completely apart when her story talking about being completely ghosted had to change once Linus showed the emails that they were in contact her well after timeline of events; and her refusal to show the messages for the sake of his family.  [At a point where you accuse someone of actions you have things like the messages need to be presented].

 

Could it still possibly be true in Wu's case?  Sure, but unless she presents the messages I can't really put merit in things she says; especially after making accusatory statements that part of the statements were proven wrong.

 

8 hours ago, DarkSwordsman said:

Madison explains in a Twitter thread her working experience at LMG/LTT.

To this, I'm think it's prudent to still reserve judgement on whether the allegations are true or false.  If other employees come forward with similar allegations or back up her story, then I think it will lend credence to this

 

There are people who I have known who have genuine cases of workplace abuse; but unfortunately there are also almost equally as many people who I know who have claimed workplace abuse (where either from being present for the "event" or reviewing the security footage) where the claim was actually false (and in some cases the accuser was the instigator).

 

There are 2 instances in my life which I think stand out as being why I am always speculative on accusations as such.  The first being I have a family member who accused her husband of physical abuse and used it as the grounds for a divorce.  There was a sort of falling out between her family and her immediate sibling, where the sibling later told us that the falling out occurred because the accuser considered throwing a feather pillow at her the case of physical abuse (they stress lightly).

 

The other case was at my former work, we'll call her Sally.  She actually would make very crude jokes, and others would chime in as well; it was generally a fun group to hang around while at work.  One time, we all were in traveling to a second office in a 15 passenger van (Sally was the only female  on the bus).  Sally started off by joking about what happens on the bus stays on the bus, and she herself was making lewd jokes.  During the ride, some of the others joked around (I tried sleeping).  The general point was that she was the one who would always joke about stuff like that, with other females present as well, and one day when she was let go from the company; she decides to go to the human rights tribunal and claim sexual harassment at the workplace.  Mentioning lewd jokes and similar.  The thing that saved us as a company was all the employees, male and female, interviewed essentially told the truth in that Sally would often be the instigator of many of the lewd jokes.  (After that though, our workplace rules changed and instead of a fun work environment it essentially became a do your work and don't socialize)

 

It's why I am holding back my judgement either way.  Could what Madison be true?  Absolutely, but I reserve judgement because it could be sensationalized, or lacking context.  So either way until more people come forward corroborating the story or sharing similar stories; I'm not sure I can judge Linus on it.  The issue with SA and SH, unless it gets caught on camera or multiple people can verify that an event happened; it becomes a he says she says argument internally.

 

57 minutes ago, maskmcgee said:

There was a WAN show which due to the nature of how topics tangent off eachother I can't recall a date off the top of my head like with the no sick pay one, but they got onto talking about employee rights. And I'm paraphrasing the from memory but Linus said words to the effect of 'if an employee wants to come and talk to me like we're friends, we can have a chat, but if you want to come to me reciting lines out of the Canadian work laws then things aren't going to be good for you.'

 

This was quite some time ago I do remember that, I'd be very interested if I can find the clip if the date of that WAN show was right around the time Madison quit.

I think that one though is all how you look at it.

 

At the time, the comment came across as essentially: I'm willing to be flexible, if you stay 15 min longer and then come in the next day 15 min later it's okay.  If you start quoting guidelines like, I worked 15 min over; I want to be  paid for 15 min overtime; then you aren't going to granted coming in 15 min later the next day.  Which I actually do agree with a sentiment like that.  If an employee is expecting everything be done by the book, that includes the good and the bad.

[DakotaCx]

4 minutes ago, ginsardi said:

To a lawyer. Not to Twitter, or Reddit, or LTT Forum, or X, or wherever. She needs a lawyer, otherwise, everyone is just going to chalk this up to attention-seeking and false accusations, which if she does have any mental issues, is only going to exacerbate them.

Fair take. I agree. 

[coopa]

Just now, kurangak said:

from the expose she did today, shes probably gonna get alot of offers from lawyers willing to help her build a case against LTT.

 

id only gonna believe what shes saying if shes takes action to bring LTT to court
 

otherwise, ill just pass it off as a disgruntled ex employee taking a dig at her ex company during their PR crisis

Believe it or not, people not going to court doesn't mean that their intentions are not good. Sometimes, the amount of proof to a legal standard held by the individual is not enough.

Or - sometimes - maybe they're not in it for the money. They just don't want another person to suffer in a toxic workplace as they did, and for harassment claims to be taken seriously internally to LMG.

The ideal outcome here would be for LMG to hire an impartial third party investigator to investigate these accusations, to the degree possible (talking to current/former employees, looking at any records that might either support or disprove the narrative that like HR records or emails, etc.) to determine specifically what happened to Madison, and if it is still a problem in the workplace at LMG currently.

In terms of a lawsuit, Madison cited that they are scared of the company and don't have "millions of dollars to throw at legal fees" as why they did not take legal action against LMG. Which is not entirely unbelievable. Anyone can sue anyone for anything, but a larger party can outspend you (unless you can find a really great lawyer and they're willing to work on contingent.) Even then, you have to worry about a larger party potentially trying to win the lawsuit by dragging your reputation through the mud.

[Zodiark1593]

21 minutes ago, Middcore said:

Most of the people here talking about "proof" and "evidence" would only ever accept a standard of proof that they know full well is vanishingly unlikely to exist in cases like this. 

 

Because Madison didn't wear a wire like she was doing an FBI mafia sting operation to record people insulting and sexually harassing her, there will never be any "proof" for these people and so they will bury their heads in the sand. And even if she did that and a recording existed they'd say it was deceptively edited, a deepfake, etc.

 

 

My own concerns are not necessarily the court of public opinion, but the potential that LMG may pursue a defamation suit. In which case, Madison would have to provide some sort of documentation or evidence, that her comments have merit, or were made in good faith, to successfully defend the (currently hypothetical) suit. 
 

And given that this is now Terran at the helm, instead of Linus, it’s likely Terran is well underway with digging up any information he can get, and consulting with a lawyer. 

[Adept_Austin]

2 minutes ago, DaytonaDragon said:

Actually, it wasn't. It "evolved" from something. 

While this post confuses me, I see now that we are talking about different uses of the word "fact". I was meaning something that is true whether believed or substantiated or not. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I believe you're meaning "fact" as in the facts of a case which DO need to be substantiated and investigated before being taken as fact. Apologies for the confusion. I look forward to the proper authorities investigating these matters and the facts coming out.