Madison reveals experiences working at LMG

[Burretploof]

5 minutes ago, codemak said:

Ya and she is trying to capitalize off of LTTs egg on their face right now for attention.  Still acting like a teenager.

This line of thinking very clearly shows that you don't even have the slightest idea about the amount of harassment that women in this space are facing.

The one and only time she could ever speak out about this without risking being torn to shreds by a ton of rabid fanboys is literally right now. If she spoke about this a week ago when everything was "fine and dandy", she would've been in even bigger trouble.

[0catt]

1 minute ago, codemak said:

You're right.  Because if she is an emotionally unstable salty ex-employee and she is trying to contribute to devaluing a multi-million dollar company out of spite and/or a misunderstanding of reality then LTT is the victim.

I would love to know on how well do you know this person to know she is 

1. "Salty"

2. "Emotionally Unstable"

 

Just based on her threads.

You are assuming things about her to make her situation less problematic. 

The only thing I have to say, grow up.

Next time you are faced with a crime committed to you, don't worry, just "brush it off".

[castlev]

4 minutes ago, buttpoop said:

So if a woman is trying to build her channel, she is incapable of being mistreated and inappropriately grabbed at work?

No, but it does raise a brow. It would also help her credibility if her own twitter feed wasn't filled with sexual innuendos, jokes about showing cleavage in thumbnails for clicks, balancing a project she's working on, by placing it on her butt while bending over, which (it's hard to tell) may have been a photo taken at work.

[DakotaCx]

27 minutes ago, Rackneh said:

As far as I can tell from what she wrote I highly doubt she was actually engaging in those jokes. And an awkward "hehe, gotta go" is not participation. She also said that any reports she made about things that made her uncomfortable were completely ignored.

 

Maybe. But that's inferring a lot. Granted, I am too. That's the point though.. there isn't enough information here to make a determination. The information that she does include in her claim points to more her own issues than the company's imo. 

[JustACityBoy]

Just now, castlev said:

No, but it does raise a brow. It would also help her credibility if her own twitter feed wasn't filled with sexual innuendos, jokes about showing cleavage in thumbnails for clicks, balancing a project she's working on, by placing it on her butt while bending over, which (it's hard to tell) may have been taken at work.

Doing it of your own volition and your own control is so much different than without consent.

[Sawa Takahashi]

3 minutes ago, 0catt said:

A person tells you she has been trough sexual harassment, and your response is to think she is lying. 

wtf is wrong with you people.

I love men having no idea of what is to be a woman in a office env.

Basic sexism at this point, if she complains, she is a teenager who doesn't know any good. 

I hope nothing like this happens to either one of your family members to actually know how bad this can be.

To even take her mental illness as problem saying it's her fault is beyond stupidity.

Well, there are offices with that kind of environment and offices without that kind of environment.

 

What I ask from everyone is to cool down and keep an open mind. We don't really know what happened and (for the majority of us), we don't work at LMG and we don't know Madison personally. How can we be certain of what really happened then ? We can show our support and try to understand, but please, keep the accusations for another day. This is only brewing baseless drama and it is a negative experience for everyone.

[0catt]

1 minute ago, castlev said:

No, but it does raise a brow. It would also help her credibility if her own twitter feed wasn't filled with sexual innuendos, jokes about showing cleavage in thumbnails for clicks, balancing a project she's working on, by placing it on her butt while bending over, which (it's hard to tell) may have been taken at work.

So your excuse is that if she didn't show more cleavage maybe she wouldn't had been sexually harassed? 

What the actual fuck

[HolographicOne]

I came here to write this long thread about how I remember some previous Twitter threads with details changed each time they appear, and how they always disappear and the reasons always change, but I got discouraged. People have such short memories on the internet. I don't want to detract from how a person might feel, but I also don't want to blindly accuse people of serious accusations because social media said so. 

I'm not pleased with any of the events lately, but the timing on this is the same as the past threads with accusations- when most vulnerable the vultures circle overhead. 

I don't know who is right or if anyone is right, but it's insane how modern media affects critical thinking and rationale.

Save us all

[castlev]

Just now, 0catt said:

So your excuse is that if she didn't show more cleavage maybe she wouldn't had been sexually harassed? 

What the actual fuck

No, not at all, work on your comprehension skills.

[Kenjionigod]

Man, some of y'all have some really bad takes and zero understanding of how posting to social media for a company suffers from just you doing it individually. Also most social media people aren't also expected to film, plan and edit additional content for those company's side project. You literally doing exactly what she was talking about because you view it as the easy "fun job". Not to also mention her comments are also in line with the whole ongoing conversation about LTT's work output.

 

Lastly I see people way too many people being completely dismissive of her talking about being inappropriately grabbed, and really need to learn more about what's inappropriate. It doesn't have to just be sexual to be inappropriate, it doesn't have to be sexual to be illegal either. I can't believe how many of you don't understand this, touching someone without their consent is still harassment and still inappropriate in a work environment. Seriously man, how do you not get that? The fact that so many people don't understand that gives more weight to her assertions imo.

 

Also, she's young and a singular individual. Actonhf like it's weird to talk about all this now when there's other criticisms being level at LTT is just riding hard for them for no reason. You really need to step back and think more critically instead of jumping to defend them. I've seen so many people get hurt at jobs over years and not tell anyone because they were afraid of the potential ramifications of they reported it and they needed the job. There's a huge power dynamic at play here, and an individual speaking out against a larger entity and their fanbase that's quick to defend them is not easy.

[ash1postwonder]

Just now, Gunpocket said:

The amount of people discounting this and calling her a liar/saying this is 'sus' is just pathetic. We get that you have a parasocial relationship with Linus. I did too at one point. This is really gross.

Like, do you guys not remember this review from last year? Where she had to say it wasn't her, just to get the fanbase to stop going after her; and now she says it was actually her who wrote that review? And the whole Mindchop thing is part of why she had to stay quiet. You're just proving her right. Parts of this fanbase, especially on this forum, are just pathetic. Open your eyes, please. I know I am just some 'literal who' but please.

 

I just made an account to post this but you beat me to it since lots of people are running with the old "the timing says it all" bs clearly must not know about this.

 

As a side note from an outsider of the community looking in for the first time, The people victim shaming the poor girl on this forum are painting an awful picture of what this community of LTT is like. 

 

 

[DaytonaDragon]

7 minutes ago, 0catt said:

A person tells you she has been trough sexual harassment, and your response is to think she is lying. 

wtf is wrong with you people.

I love men having no idea of what is to be a woman in a office env.

Basic sexism at this point, if she complains, she is a teenager who doesn't know any good. 

I hope nothing like this happens to either one of your family members to actually know how bad this can be.

To even take her mental illness as problem saying it's her fault is beyond stupidity.

 

 

You know the story of the guy crying wolf falsely and being believed 2 time and the 3rd time, when the cry was genuine, he wasn’t believed? That’s the gazillion of fake rape allegations. No proof = lies.

[0catt]

Just now, Sawa Takahashi said:

Well, there are offices with that kind of environment and offices without that kind of environment.

 

What I ask from everyone is to cool down and keep an open mind. We don't really know what happened and (for the majority of us), we don't work at LMG and we don't know Madison personally. How can we be certain of what really happened then ? We can show our support and try to understand, but please, keep the accusations for another day. This is only brewing baseless drama and it is a negative experience for everyone.

Until it's proven its all a ruse we need to stand with the victim, this behaviour is not acceptable. There are multiple reasons to believe this is true. Sure you can take everything with a grain of salt but at the end, if all of this is true, she was/is the victim

[Alex T88]

1 minute ago, codemak said:

No you did not get this straight.  You might be acting how Madison did (which I never said was what happened) and not interpreting reality correctly because you want to be offended.

Did I say I was offended? I think not. I merely offered my interpretation based on what you wrote. Given it's an interpretation, I asked you if it is correct. That's it. Now that you know how Madison acted and how I act, maybe you can be so kind to enlighten me in regards to reality and what is it's correct interpretation. Since, it's clear I am not able to do that and I want to be offended.

[Leiker535]

8 minutes ago, Remy van den Nouweland said:

We don't know, that's the truth as far as I'm concerned. No one should jump to any conclusions before finding out all the facts.
I think Madison's timing says it all, if there really was an issue she had many occasions to share this, but never did. 

This is not how whistleblowing works. As per the people's victim blaming inherent in this thread, it often takes a push for people to come out with their grievances, specially if they bottled it up for a long time. It's not something you decide to share casually out of nowhere.
 

LMG has always been credible and appeared transparent about their internal functions. It's what so many of us love about the channel. So just coming out of nowhere with a completely opposite perception (not taking sides here) is not easy, specially considering the aforementioned tendency of victim blaming inside the tech community.

I hope the claims are false or blown out of proportion out of love for LMG, but just me liking the company doesn't merit outright rebutting them.

[DakotaCx]

13 minutes ago, RWxAshley said:

The only facts that exist are the ones that Madison was mistreated at a company that has proven history of poor leadership, misconduct, and management issues. You refusing to accept reality isn't a facts. Its your uninformed opinion.

But her mistreatment isn't a fact. It's an allegation. 

The history of "poor leadership" or "misconduct" is a leap too given the extremely small portion of what we see regarding their work structure. Even if it is a poorly run YouTube channel, that doesn't automatically grant that it's a haven for sexual harassment. 

If anything, being as large as it is now with as many employees as they have, the public-facing internal employees of all levels, and how much everything is recorded there would make it harder to get away with such actions cleanly. 

[JustACityBoy]

1 minute ago, Sawa Takahashi said:

Well, there are offices with that kind of environment and offices without that kind of environment.

 

What I ask from everyone is to cool down and keep an open mind. We don't really know what happened and (for the majority of us), we don't work at LMG and we don't know Madison personally. How can we be certain of what really happened then ? We can show our support and try to understand, but please, keep the accusations for another day. This is only brewing baseless drama and it is a negative experience for everyone.

The reason she's saying it now because if she said it earlier she would be dismissed as someone looking for attention! Doing it now makes more sense because people will tend to be more attentive to issues! It's why metoo was such a big thing because it allowed for a large sway of people to made credible allegations without having their careers sidelined.

[buttpoop]

1 minute ago, codemak said:

They are called teenagers for a reason?  I'm just pointing out a parallel in actions that describes a correlation between two people - one just being a legal adult (and still teenager), versus one who is not even an adult yet.  I'm sorry if this offends you.  Don't get me started on my teenage boys now...

Reread your post (over and over if you need) to see how it doesn't make sense.

 

"They are called teenagers for a reason" coupled with the next sentence is literally just gibberish. You haven't really described any action that an adult and teenager would make to draw a "correlation" (a word misused by the dumbest people when they think they are very smart) between. 

 

"I'm sorry if this offends you."

 

It's not that I'm offended. You are being sexist. I'm sorry if that offends you.

 

"Don't get me started on my teenage boys now"

 

But you didn't compare her to a teenage boy. You specifically gendered your criticism. This is what makes you sexist. 

 

[0catt]

1 minute ago, DaytonaDragon said:

You know the story of the guy crying wolf falsely and being believed 2 time and the 3rd time, when the cry was genuine, he wasn’t believed? That’s the gazillion of fake rape allegations. No proof = lies.

So because 1 person lied about having been raped, we should automatically believe every single rape allegation is false from now on? How does this make sense?

[RWxAshley]

3 minutes ago, castlev said:

No, but it does raise a brow. It would also help her credibility if her own twitter feed wasn't filled with sexual innuendos, jokes about showing cleavage in thumbnails for clicks, balancing a project she's working on, by placing it on her butt while bending over, which (it's hard to tell) may have been a photo taken at work.

Being in control, and not in control are two extremely different things. Just like consent, and no consent. This doesn't take away from the fact that people invaded her personal space, touched her inappropriately, and sexually harass her. Just cause I'm ok with sexual jokes around a partner or close friend does not mean I want the random creep at the office making weird sexual jokes directly to me, or touching me in a weird way.

[Orthusaku]

14 minutes ago, DakotaCx said:

Let's start over. 

You need to identify who the alleged harasser is. It matters if it's a supervisor or a coworker as there are different thresholds for what is considered harassment:

The Supreme Court has also attempted to legally define sexual harassment, generally holding that sexual harassment can include tangible employment changes in exchange for sexual favors or conduct that is so pervasive or severe that it creates an abusive working environment for the victim. Such conduct cannot be mere utterances or offhand comments; typically, both a reasonable person as well as the actual victim must find the conduct hostile or abusive given the circumstances.

Under Title VII, federal courts recognize two forms of sexual harassment: quid pro quo and hostile work environment. While these terms do not appear in the text of Title VII, the Supreme Court has interpreted Section 703(a) to protect employees from both tangible (quid pro quo) and intangible (hostile work environment) sexual harassment.

 

QUID PRO QUO
Quid pro quo harassment occurs when the “submission to or rejection of” requests for sexual favors “is used as the basis for employment decisions affecting” an individual. Thus, quid pro quo harassment falls within Title VII’s “because of ...sex” requirement because a sexual favor would not have been solicited but for the sex of the person harassed. To prove quid pro quo sexual harassment under most state laws, a plaintiff must show that: (1) the plaintiff belongs to a protected class under anti-discrimination law; (2) the harassment allegedly experienced was based on sex; (3) the harassment was unwelcome; (4) the plaintiff was subjected to unwelcome sexual harassment in the form of sexual advances or requests for sexual favors; and (5) the plaintiff’s submission to the unwelcome advances was an express or implied condition for receiving job benefits, or the plaintiff’s refusal to submit resulted in a tangible job detriments such as reduction in pay, failure to obtain a raise or to receive benefits, or termination of employment.

 

HOSTILE WORK ENVIRONMENT
A hostile work environment claim usually involves “severe or pervasive” harassment and hostility that interferes with an individual’s work performance. While a plaintiff must show that gender is a substantial factor in the discrimination – and that “but for” the sex of the plaintiff, the plaintiff would not have been treated in that manner – no showing of economic harm or actual psychological injury is necessary. To make a prima facie showing of a hostile work environment, the victim must show that: (1) he or she belongs to a protected class under the antidiscrimination law; (2) the harassment allegedly experienced was based on sex; (3) the harassment was unwelcome; and (4) the harasser’s conduct was so severe and/or pervasive that it altered the victim- employee’s work environment by detracting from the employee’s job performance.   


Farkas, R. (n.d.). STATE REGULATION OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT. THE GEORGETOWN JOURNAL OF GENDER AND THE LAW.

"Although the law doesn't prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted)." 

Sexual harassment. (n.d.). US EEOC. https://www.eeoc.gov/sexual-harassment

 

 

 

So yes, you need to make clear the harassment was unwelcome. You need to say stop, provide written notification, file with HR, etc. It doesn't have to be verbal, but if it's not an egregious case the burden falls on you to prove otherwise. 
 

Yet with the US ARMY I just go to the sharp rep and make a formal complaint without having to confront the situation at all. Hell I seen it happen and a soldier was forced to move to different barracks.

Honestly what is sounds like is LMG is a hostile work environment and you are likely to get fired or treated poorly for not allow any sexual jokes around you.

Edit: Also you think you could get away with telling a Colonel or CSM that it wasn't sexual harassment because they didn't tell me to stop or that it was unwanted. Or that it wasn't rape because it wasn't told no

[JustACityBoy]

1 minute ago, DakotaCx said:

But her mistreatment isn't a fact. It's an allegation. 

The history of "poor leadership" or "misconduct" is a leap too given the extremely small portion of what we see regarding their work structure. Even if it is a poorly run YouTube channel, that doesn't automatically grant that it's a haven for sexual harassment. 

If anything, being as large as it is now with as many employees as they have, the public-facing internal employees of all levels, and how much everything is recorded there would make it harder to get away with such actions cleanly. 

You don't think this is proof of a poor working culture enabled by Linus?

[Fuudge]

9 minutes ago, 0catt said:

A person tells you she has been trough sexual harassment, and your response is to think she is lying. 

wtf is wrong with you people.

I love men having no idea of what is to be a woman in a office env.

Basic sexism at this point, if she complains, she is a teenager who doesn't know any good. 

I hope nothing like this happens to either one of your family members to actually know how bad this can be.

To even take her mental illness as problem saying it's her fault is beyond stupidity.

 

 

It is true that men have no idea of what is to be a woman in an office env. However is it not basic sexism to take a person's accusations(they are just that at this point) at face value just because they are "a woman in an office enviroment"?  Why is it so wrong to wait for more information before picking a side? As per my previous post there have been plenty of cases where such accusations were false, why can't I doubt someone just because they are a woman and I am a man? I am NOT saying she is lying, I am saying that she MIGHT be and this doubt applies to everyone including anyone from LTT.

[Adept_Austin]

Not sure if anyone's posted this, but this is an easy to read format of all Madison's tweets
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1691693740254228741.html

[Anders155]

10 minutes ago, HesCalledTheStig said:

You're here and breathing arent you?  

Am I? What evidence do you have to support that? I want proof of me being here and breathing. I hope you can understand the point I'm trying to make here. Nothing is black or white, demanding proof for something to be a fact is a silly notion and not how anything works.