Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[YoungBlade]

17 minutes ago, TheBeast2211 said:

In this case the journalistic best practice you are talking about does not apply. That is reserved for situations where previously undisclosed or unreported information is being brought to light. Everything GN raised in their video is already in the public domain, and was put there by LMG themselves. There is no need for comment on something that has in effect already been commented on by the party in question.

LMG had not made a public comment on auctioning off the Billet Labs prototype, which is by far the most damning part of the video.

 

And again, if they had just reached out for comment, then LTT fans wouldn't be able to use this as a shield and claim unfair treatment. That's why it's a good idea in this case.

[n0stalghia]

2 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

Because I spend so much time checking my data before forming an opinion, I didn't realize how severe the errors had gotten at LTT.

I want to point out that a statement that you don’t notice errors because you spend so much time analyzing data is contradictory. You’d think that spending more time would make you recognize the errors. 

[E-Waster]

I saw a video the other day (that was published about 6 months ago) where one of the GPU's tested didn't even have any data at all. Its portion of the graph was just '0 fps'.

 

This is either down to harsh video deadlines set by Linus or just lazy editing. I'm betting on the former.

[futurewau]

This is not a proper response to the journalistic research Linus -  Your comment is full of unsubstantiated claims and personal attacks. It does not contribute to the discussion in any meaningful way. If you want to be taken seriously, I suggest you actually try to say her im sorry i messed up for once.

[Babymillie]

1 minute ago, Dom1252 said:

majority of people only know because of this controversy, how many people cared before GN video? 

 

Wel i don't know , all i know is they talked about it and i knew that from even before GN put that video up so assuming no one watches the wan show is not true thats simply my point

[Slimejumper]

13 minutes ago, RWxAshley said:

People still arguing that GN needed to reach out to Linus. Ok lets address this.

What changes with GN reaching out to Linus before the video is released? Nothing. The same point remains that LMG neglected to stay in contact with its business associates, and poor communication happened due to neglect, and poor procedures within LMG. The entire video built up to that, and the reason GN didn't focus on it nearly as much is that it would distract from the core message of the video. LMG mismanagement, and laissez-faire attitude has finally led to issues affecting business associates outside of their internal office space, and has now caused mistrust in their abilities to handle important assets like this as a professional. This could even be argued that this reflects poorly not just on LMG, but any youtube content creator that would love to look at prototype equipment to show to their audience.

This attitude, and response should send a clear message that anything sent to LMG should never be expected back until they make real changes to how the company handles itself.

Its not strictly about Billet either as this can very easily happen again due to Linus waving it off as not a big deal, and showing no concern over losing potentially life changing business assets. Espically given that this recent issue is just one of many in LMG's long history of equipment just flat out going missing, employees taking company property home on a whim, and just last week had found out that someone took a prototype backpack out of the office, and gave it away for charity that Linus was upset over losing. This isn't some weird new issue that just happened. I know hindsight is 20/20, but this is known that LMG is bad at keep track of its own assets. Now we know they are terrible at keeping track of outside companies assets.

yeah that - GN didn’t msg me directly - is almost the biggest take Linus has on the GN video is a funny takeaway from

my perspective.   How about, omg our videos are making out competitors concerned for their audience being misled, that maybe the lab is actually making the tech review sphere worse rather than better? . 

 

I also suspect GN did not trust LMG to stay quiet about their upcoming video if comment was asked for. After watching how LMG operates for four years on youtube i can’t think what i would trust them to do other than entertain me for 20 minutes. 

[__Dreamer__]

Just now, E-Waster said:

I saw a video the other day (that was published about 6 months ago) where one of the GPU's tested didn't even have any data at all. Its portion of the graph was just '0 fps'.

 

This is either down to harsh video deadlines set by Linus or just lazy editing. I'm betting on the former.

LMG should really chill out and stop releasing 25+ videos per week

[PhilGoodInc]

9 minutes ago, MotherboardsInThePark said:

You're missing the point. The problem isn't that there are errors. The problem is that they are way too frequent, they are not corrected properly, and then that bald guy from Labs claims that their testing is better than GN's or HUB's.

 

You, my guy, are clearly biased.

i never mentioned any bald guy, and if that clip was indeed the point of that video, then it further cements the my point about GN being petty and unprofessional. I wasn't defending LTT, just pointing out that GN hasn't got the integrity they claim to have. Where is the bias?

 

Also, you say im biased, but you joined the forum only 2 hours ago and your first post is absolute insanity. You have no credibilty.

[usernoname]

My take on this:

Is Steve right? Factual it is. There are problems with the videos and they need to adress this ASAP, this is not small channel and people actually take buying decisions over this. Companies' image can be affected and if the conclusions are based on wrong data LMG must take accountabilty. You cannot hide behind the " we make videos for entertaiment". Showing data is nothing "fun" is presenting facts which must be right. MrBeast makes fun videos LMG makes tech videos witch are fun and informative.

Why did Steve make this video? Because he loves drama and you can see that he loves when companies screw up just to pose as a consumer protector, a savior. Look, I watch GN videos and appreciate their work but this is not how journalism works, journalism needs to be emotionless. 

Make sure you get your information form multiple sources.

[ToboRobot]

2 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

LMG had not made a public comment on auctioning off the Billet Labs prototype, which is by far the most damning part of the video.

 

It's a good idea to stick to the facts, and not make things up...

 

"we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype"
 

 

[Karon]

1 minute ago, E-Waster said:

I saw a video the other day (that was published about 6 months ago) where one of the GPU's tested didn't even have any data at all. Its portion of the graph was just '0 fps'.

 

This is either down to harsh video deadlines set by Linus or just lazy editing. I'm betting on the former.

That usually means that the game didn't run on the card at all.

[RedRound2]

23 minutes ago, RWxAshley said:

People still arguing that GN needed to reach out to Linus. Ok lets address this.

What changes with GN reaching out to Linus before the video is released? 

It would've changed a lot.

 

For one, anyone watching GN video will naturally think Linus maliciously sold the cooler for a profit at an auction ignoring their request to return it. That is not what happened. It was a gross miscommunication error and LMG has already committed to compensating them for whatever they deem the value of the cooler. That is the reality and that should have been mentioned.

 

Second, Linus approached the cooler review in a different way. Purely as an item on whether people should buy or not, rather than a technical showcase. He has admitted to that mistake as well.

 

It is a journalistic practice to reach out for comment before completely attempting to destroy someone's credibility. GN talks about framework investment potential conflicts of interest when there is literally no proof or evidence of the same.

 

What GN did was build up drama. They should have approached Linus for comment and then published the video - with the most up-to-date info. All I can help feeling is that he did not approach Linus because he wanted his video to carry pain as much as it did. And that is just sad. 

[RWxAshley]

1 minute ago, treestain said:

I thought the discussion was GN reaching out for comment, of course he can leave a comment on the video whenever he wants to. It's GN strangely not reaching out for a comment in LMG and LMG only.

I keep seeing this point be brought up, but this changes nothing about GN original point. The ultimate point of GN's video for those that missed why he built up to the Billet situation is LMG mismanagement causing issues that are now starting to be felt in the industry outside of the company office. This could be any other company and the same applies that LMG issues are just being left to festure, and grow out of control.

If GN got a comment about Linus compensating Billet that doesn't change the fact that LMG the company failed to uphold a business agreement, and relationship within the industry due to neglect that they've failed to properly address for a long time now. LMG needs to address this internally and fix the issues leading to this kind of failure.

[Madpaatch]

I've watched Linus spend tons of money on investments and I was wondering how he will turn all this into profit. Especially all those power hungry servers, myriad workstations, lab equipment etc. The frequency with which he talks about money suggests he's facing a cash crunch and pushing for more revenue to cover the operating expenses like electricity bills, salaries, etc.

 

I understand he's frustrated being under enormous pressure but imo it's he himself who's provoking other reviewers. While he's accusing Steve of 'not reaching out' I'm just wondering if Linus himself did reach out to Steve after Tim openly blasted GN and HUB. Judging by Steve's vid I doubt it. Moreover his apologies are just shallow to make up for his arrogance when his mistakes are pointed out.

 

Regarding the quality of LTT reviews I stopped watching his reviews a while ago as they were not reaching the depth I'd like to see in a review. GN, HUB are some of the reviewers I watch to find details I need to make an informed purchase.

 

If I were Linus I'd scale down the operations a bit - of course there is another option of getting a loan/VC but I guess he didn't like certain clauses in the potential contract and/or he's already leveraged to the maximum and the cash crunch is getting serious. I doubt a change on the strategic level will happen though due to his I know-it-all omnipotent attitude. While he might implement some form of QA in the video pipeline this won't solve the issue of overextended goals. 

 

I agree - more competition in the reviewer space is better. Alas LTT is not there yet to claim they are a serious GN competitor - it's sometimes fun to watch but content-wise not really a competition.

[bandainamcofan]

1 minute ago, treestain said:

I thought the discussion was GN reaching out for comment, of course he can leave a comment on the video whenever he wants to. It's GN strangely not reaching out for a comment in LMG and LMG only.

Let me suggest this possible reasoning. Again, I do not know Steve and I do not speak for him, this is speculation and mine alone.

GN wants to report only facts about the issues at LMG. Contacting Linus personally could be seen as him trying to "soften the blow" of the problem for Linus, therefore he's ethically justified in not reaching out for comment.

 

Ultimately, it's still all done as a public video response to a public video. The comments being reported on were already out there.

[treestain]

6 minutes ago, WereCat said:

I'd say calling it a drama is a stretch. They did raise valid concerns and awareness though. You could call anything that raises awareness as "trying to make drama". 

Of course, and I agree LMG needs to make improvements, it'd be stupid for me to call any human or entity perfect. The video had valid criticism, but definitely not for the entire 40 minutes.

 

10 minutes ago, WereCat said:

And regarding community "being lighted on fire" I see many people with less than 10posts suddenly coming out of the darkness of the web expressing their opinion and only few of them having out of spite remarks. There will always be haters no matter how many followers you have. 

Of course, and there are a ton of people here having general conversation and giving valid criticism which I'm happy about. An hour or two ago was a completely different story though, which is why I said that.

 

11 minutes ago, WereCat said:

Yes, it was only a short clip on Twitter but that doesn't really matter as long as it was seen be lots of people which it has. I'm not even on twitter and I've seen it on Lemmy about 20min after it was posted. 

I personally haven't, and I can't imagine it racked up over a million views in less than 4 hours. I could be wrong, but thats still what's caused just, all of.. this... I still think it could've been handled better from both parties.

[lacion]

17 minutes ago, RWxAshley said:

People still arguing that GN needed to reach out to Linus. Ok lets address this.

What changes with GN reaching out to Linus before the video is released? Nothing. The same point remains that LMG neglected to stay in contact with its business associates, and poor communication happened due to neglect, and poor procedures within LMG. The entire video built up to that, and the reason GN didn't focus on it nearly as much is that it would distract from the core message of the video. LMG mismanagement, and laissez-faire attitude has finally led to issues affecting business associates outside of their internal office space, and has now caused mistrust in their abilities to handle important assets like this as a professional. This could even be argued that this reflects poorly not just on LMG, but any youtube content creator that would love to look at prototype equipment to show to their audience.

This attitude, and response should send a clear message that anything sent to LMG should never be expected back until they make real changes to how the company handles itself.

Its not strictly about Billet either as this can very easily happen again due to Linus waving it off as not a big deal, and showing no concern over losing potentially life changing business assets. Espically given that this recent issue is just one of many in LMG's long history of equipment just flat out going missing, employees taking company property home on a whim, and just last week had found out that someone took a prototype backpack out of the office, and gave it away for charity that Linus was upset over losing. This isn't some weird new issue that just happened. I know hindsight is 20/20, but this is known that LMG is bad at keep track of its own assets. Now we know they are terrible at keeping track of outside companies assets.

I have no personal stake in this matter and mostly perceive it as mere drama. To clarify, I'm indifferent to both LTT and GN. While I don't actively follow either, I occasionally watch LTT's content for entertainment.

 

However, I felt compelled to comment on this.

 

GN frequently emphasizes morality and journalistic integrity. It appears that presenting an unbiased viewpoint is their primary concern. Every story, every issue, and every facet of life has myriad perspectives. To paint a comprehensive picture, it's essential to present all the involved parties and perspectives. By not reaching out to LTT, GN's narrative seems one-sided.

 

This approach hinders viewers from forming their own opinions and feels like GN is primarily pushing their narrative.

 

The essence of journalism lies in neutrality—presenting stories from all angles while minimizing bias. Granted, achieving complete objectivity is challenging.

Ideally, the story should be presented with views from both sides, supplemented by facts. Opinions, if any, should be clearly delineated, preferably at the end.

From my observation, the GN video came across as an opinion piece masquerading as factual journalism.

 

To be transparent, I lack insights into the internal dynamics between Billet and LTT. Without comprehensive information, I'm withholding judgment on the video's content and the ensuing allegations.

[YoungBlade]

3 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

It's a good idea to stick to the facts, and not make things up...

 

"we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype"
 

 

That comment was posted after the video aired. Where did LMG make a public comment on that before the video went up that was in the "public domain" for anyone to see?

[Empyreal]

1 hour ago, FUTDomi said:

Show me when has Linus reviewed a laptop since the "conflict of interests" for example.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MedievalMatt]

1 minute ago, bandainamcofan said:

Let me suggest this possible reasoning. Again, I do not know Steve and I do not speak for him, this is speculation and mine alone.

GN wants to report only facts about the issues at LMG. Contacting Linus personally could be seen as him trying to "soften the blow" of the problem for Linus, therefore he's ethically justified in not reaching out for comment.

 

Ultimately, it's still all done as a public video response to a public video. The comments being reported on were already out there.

There is also the matter that a lot of what GN called out are factual errors.  And so "reaching out" would likely have been met with "yep, those are errors alright"

On the billet labs thing, again, that was factual information and there was no direct opinion drawn other than to say the facts dont look great.

If there were opinions and conclusions being derived by Steve then, yes, he should have reached out first.  But that wasnt what took place.  "Hey, your graph is fucked up" doesnt need LMG to comment... it simply...is....

Billet labs, again, maybe could have been a place where LMG should have been contacted, but all Steve did was shine a light on what happened and say "IDK yall, seems sus".

[Ayoo]

Genuinely made an account to comment having never been kn these forums before, better or worse you boys are deadass trending on reddit even if it's for the wrong reason.

 

I watch LTTs stuff pretty casually and probably wouldn't watch the GN studd usually because I prefer the entertainment sorta style and won't ever be hugely into massive delving into specs or information. 

 

I watched the GN video simply because I popped up when I smacked "LTT" into YouTube. I agree that the stuff involving Billet Labs etc wasn't a good look and there are mistakes in some of the content but I honestly don't see this level of instrasngience or lack of transparency which is supposedly happening. 

 

The stuff about framework etc from what I've watched, Linus has always been very upfront about, along with the partnerships and sponsorships. I don't think that level of supposition and theory crafting some whacky ass any they in bed with asus cause they've some employees with Asus on their LinkedIn is helpful. Putting people's faces and cutting reactions from videos makes it seem super personal, you can address these concerns without doing clever cuts on Jake's face or editing in a disapproving Luke. People like Tim are getting hammered over a single clip and comment out of context where, in my opinion, he was trying to show his passion for his process, what made it distinctive - whether true or not.

 

While I'm not condoning apparent inaccuracies I just think there was probably a better way of addressing the issue. Tho I am coming at this as a guy who hasn't bought any merchandise or a subscription on Floatplane and really enjoys the channel in a background way so I get my investment might not be as big. 

 

I only really see the Billet Labs thing as a big issue and then a lot of insincere conjecture for another 35 minutes but that's just me.

 

 

[Shlouski]

2 minutes ago, Dom1252 said:

I mean, look at the views, they are there 

then look at views of regular LTT videos 

 

Yes they are much less, fortunately affected videos cite corrections.

 

It doesn't make practical sense to go beyond making corrections, but its there for everyone to see that they were wrong about something. Linus was just ranting about all the stuff they do wrong in the WAN show GN got his clips from.

 

There is also a difference between being wrong and having a difference of opinion, where he is clearly wrong he admits to it, but sometimes he doesn't think he's wrong and that is his prerogative and it yours to disagree.

 

I don't see your point when it comes to the WAN videos, whether or not people watch them doesn't change the fact he admits he is wrong in them.

[WallacEngineering]

4 minutes ago, n0stalghia said:

I want to point out that a statement that you don’t notice errors because you spend so much time analyzing data is contradictory. You’d think that spending more time would make you recognize the errors. 

You know exactly what I mean. I was saying in regards to when I create a thread or comment about a topic such as all the controversy surrounding the RTX 4060 cards because they use 50 class GPU dies and BUS widths. 

 

I noticed some errors as I said before, but it's not like I have time to watch every single LMG video cuz I certainly don't. With five or six videos posted every day from different subchannels, it's completely impossible for me to keep up with LMG at this point. The only way I could possibly watch every single video is if I completely disregarded all other YouTube media that I watch and only watch LTT.

 

But yes I noticed some errors but then I ignored them because I saw the data from Gamers Nexus as well as hardware and box and sometimes I'll check out one or two more reviews from smaller channels and I also enjoy JaysTwoCents Although he clearly focuses a lot less on reviews.

 

So yeah I was aware there were some errors beforehand I just wasn't aware of how severe this issue has become and the fact that it is happening in almost every single video. It's not like my job is to critique LTT, I have other things to worry about

[E-Waster]

6 minutes ago, Karon said:

That usually means that the game didn't run on the card at all.

It was a decent mid-high end card IIRC, so I doubt that was the case.

[xg32]

1 hour ago, PhilGoodInc said:

My take on the GN video:

Yes, the billet labs debacle is bad. LTT/LMG have stuffed up big with that one.

 

The errors seem very nitpicky. Yes there are errors, but the conclusions made are generally unaffected by these errors. I do agree there needs to be less errors, but the severity of them is blown way of proportion IMO.

 

The thing that bothers me about GN's video, it is posted under the guise of being unmonetised, and "This isn't drama", but at the same time, uses over the top phrases such as "desperately needed conversation" "complete chaos" "Irresponsible actions" "harmful information to viewers" "reckless, irresponsible and concerning". The first 1-2 minutes of the video also seems a bit petty and unprofessional, it starts the video on strange note, especially when they are insisting this isnt drama. To me, I can see through the whole "good guy Steve" act, this was all calculated. 

The conclusions definitely change with errors, not even LTT fans can take the benchmarks seriously for months, if not years, and saying asus "generally makes good products" is just not true and misleading (shilling).

 

the video felt like it was triggered by the labs comments, despite Steve saying in the beginning of the video that it didn't matter.

He definitely should have reached out. I'm skeptical of Steve's intentions, but only he would know for sure.

 

Labs just feels overall incompetent and a complete waste of money, but everything's already in motion