Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Guest]

Hopefully this gets sorted out and we can get back to watching awkward videos with Plouffe lubing keyboards

[Supersonicwolfe]

In my mind, LMG needs to sit down and make a Video to respond, not just forums reply, or a WAN show segment.

 

A post on Forums won't be enough, because LTT Forums can be down. Which it just happened an hour - half an hour or so ago, making Linus's response unreachable.

 

A WAN show segment is also not enough, reason being not everyone will watch a WAN show, and it's not scripted, which didn't work at all when Linus responded to the BilletLabs controversy. I suspect it won't work for this one either.

 

In addition, if LMG labs really want their data to be respected. It's not done though claims like the one made in LTX labs tour, but document it. This is the same as why one has written methodology in a lab report, this is so the lab results can be reproduced. Or more critically pointing out deficiencies. Right now, the only way to point out deficiencies is in YouTube Comments, and there are many of them on methods and data presentation from people more knowledgeable in the field...(including the mic video just went live)

[thebakerman]

For reference, @LinusTech, here is what I think me and a lot of other community members would have appreciated hearing instead of your response. The points raised are almost the same, but it actually communicates that you are taking personal responsibility for the failings and working on ways to fix the immediately in ways that are obvious. The problem we are having is the attitude you show towards the problem. I hope you can see what I mean if you ever read this...
 

> I would like to thank Steve and Gamer's Nexus for publishing their concerns, and the community for their continued dedication to our content evident in the level of engagement it's gotten. While we wold have preferred to have been given an option to respond to the statements prior to publication, a point that we have discussed and resolved in private with GN, I would still like to take the time to address the points raised by the video.

> We have been aware of the fact that there has been a regrettable increase in inaccurate information in our videos, My sincere belief up until this point was that most of the mistakes have been minor and did not impact the final message of the videos. When this was not the case, we always attempted to correct all inaccuracies in a way that is obvious to every member of our audience. However, it is clear from both GN's coverage as well as the feedback we've received from our community members in response that we have not been meeting the high standard of quality that our viewers rightly expect from us. Our goal as a company remans educating our viewers with entertaining content, and accuracy is a cornerstone of everything we do. Every single day, we strive to earn and retain your trust and viewership by ensuring we remain an outlet you can rely on and trust with your purchasing decisions. It is clear we have been failing you on this front, which was never our intention. I take full responsibility as the person in charge of LMG over this period, and I would like to apologize personally and on behalf of everyone working at LMG.

> It is clear that we need to listen to the feedback and adjust some of our internal processes in the short, medium, and long-term in order to completely address these concerns. Over the long-term, we are already hard at work building up the lab capacity so that we can ensure reliable, scalable, and accurate data processing for everything we do. However, this long-term goal should never have resulted in a drop in the high standards that you, our audience, and most important boss, hold ourselves to, and we are keenly aware of how such a downward trend can damage the trust placed in our future LTT Labs content, thereby harming our goal of holding manufacturers of products accountable to their marketing claims. I will never ever let that happen.

 

> As for concerns around the Billet water block, due to multiple unacceptable failures of our internal processes, the prototype unit is indeed no longer in our possession. Due to a mix-up in communication and inventory processes, the water block was sold to an LTX attendee as part of a charity auction. I would like to clarify given the potential ambiguity of GN's reporting that LMG has in no way profited from the sale of this prototype as all the money was donated to charity. However, this does not absolve us of our responsibility to the industry we cover to treat pre-production and engineering samples with the utmost care and confidence.  Maintaining a reputation for trustworthiness is fundamental to our business, and we wish to do nothing but the best in this front. As a first step to making it right, we have since reached out to Billet and offered to compensate them for all losses they incurred as a result of this regrettable act, and our logistics team is producing a retrospective, including learning outcomes and recommendations to our procedures to ensure this does not happen again. As a business owner who produces physical goods, we understand the impact of losing a golden prototype is far worse than what can be compensated for with money, but we are in talks with Billet to see how we can help them in their future endeavors.

 

> While we cannot make unrealistic short-term promises, I have directed our production team to ensure that corrections are easily identifiable, marking them both on the audio track as well as in the video itself. I have also decided to schedule an all-hands retrospective with our team so we can see how we can best respond to the systemic issues, whether it be by changing the production schedule, improving our SOPs and processes, or adjusting our production schedule to ensure we have time to catch errors in content we produce where we rely on benchmark data. We will be sharing the results of this meeting, as well as other commitments we are making to the quality of our content at WAN show on Friday. We also encourage Steve, the broader tech creator community, and our audience to hold ourselves to our promise, and raise any concerns around not seeing the necessary level of improvement moving forward.

> It may take some time, but we can do better. We will do better. And we will never let you down. And I will give you my personal Linus Tech Tips Guarantee on this one. Trust me bro.

 

[Garar]

11 hours ago, LinusTech said:

It's taking time, and this kind of aggressive expansion has been a learning curve for us, but to frame our recent actions as "sacrificing accuracy" is misleading at best. 

But you did "sacrifice accuracy". You said yourself on WAN show. You knew you didn't have correct results and you didn't want to spend 500$ to fix it. This is what sacrificing accuracy means. If you are presented with a choice: accuracy or speed, you in your own words choose speed.

 

The most important to me is that you don't see that you did anything wrong. Until you change your mind that speed is better than accuracy things won't change. You have to realize that you made a mistake and only after, you can try fixing it. Until then, even if you say: "we are working on it" nothing  will change. The fish rots from the head, if you mindset is broken, it will influence all employees.

 

And no, I'm not going to trust you. You have to earn trust, and you've demonstrated that you don't deserve trust.

 

Posting this on forum instead of addressing it on the channel is a shitty move, but it fits your character.

[laundmo]

i find it pretty damn ironic how GN made a blatantly obvious factual mistake in a vido criticising LTT for, mostly, obvious mistakes.

 

at around 20:00 GN criticised a TechQuickie for claiming the 5600x3d had 99mb cache. He did this by showing the specsheet for the 5600x. that's just full on a different CPU. the x3d has 99mb cache between L2 and L3.

[filpo]

Just now, Ottoman420 said:

The answer is still being benchmarked at LTT Labs

Some say that they can't comprehend the answers, and they still have a shelf full of products. All we know is it's called The Labs 

[perryckd]

7 minutes ago, RWxAshley said:

You are so wrong. Did we even watch the same video detailing the issues with LTT?

Let me state this plainly. Steve from GN has so much more to lose from taking on the defining face of the tech review industry not just in terms of potential industry networking opportunities, but having access to resources, content, and contacts within the industry to aid them when they run into issues. Thats not even going into how GN is potentially burning the largest bridge for collaboration, and cross promotion between the two channels.

You have no idea what you are even talking about when it comes to working within an industry.

 

Doesnt matter, i showed that Steve is no angel. He made a mistake himself, kept quiet after all the new subs came in, did he not? 

 

He is a battle hardened guerilla, He basically admit in this video, he took months preparing for it (seriously?). He bet the internet will turn on LMG, as everyone expect it will.

[The Omen 666]

I see a lot words and not much else unfortunately. It’s disappointing tbh. It’s poor form to call out other channels and suggest your testing is so much better and then be sore about it when your own work is shown full of inaccuracies & shoddy corrections. For me though, as mistakes happen and often will across all the media channels, it’s the treatment of Billet that really hit home. I think you may have opened yourself up to legal challange for auctioning of their IP without consent and blatantly poopoo’d their product and doubled down on it. You’ve got to appreciate the reach of you channel and the influence it has and the power it has to destroy businesses. 
 

it’s even more disappointing when in an ask me anything style video of what it’s like to work at lmg, areas of improvement and concern are called out but on the wan show, you hammered home you are unwilling to take time ( and money) to make sure things are correct. Perfection is the enemy of good, I get that and nothing will ever be 100% or it would never get published but you gotta be close to 100% . This is gonna hurt, it’s plain people are not happy and some of it will be OTT but I hope lessons are learned, some humble pie eaten and the channels and LMG grow better for it. Slow down, take the time to get things right

Edited August 15, 2023 by The Omen 666

[RWxAshley]

Just now, perryckd said:

 

Doesnt matter, i showed that Steve is no angel. He made a mistake himself, kept quiet after all the new subs came in, did he not? 

 

He is a battle hardened guerilla, He basically admit in this video, he took months preparing for it (seriously?). He bet the internet will turn on LMG, as everyone expect it will.

Ok. Great. How does this change anything being said about LMG, and how its operating? Can we get back on topic.

[VeryScary]

6 minutes ago, Neroon said:

That's not how this works, and Linus agrees with that. I'm behind on WAN Shows, and I was listening to this one recently.

The discussion was about the excessive cheating in Tarkov. At a certain point Linus and Luke talk about the response of notable streamers and the likes, how even if they are not paid, even if there is no formal or informal deal to support the company, they can be, even unconsciously, more positive towards the company. They talked about how these people get like support from the company through ingame money and the likes (usually argued to help them make more content), but also because their viewership is based on the success of the company. They spoke about Ninja on how important the success of Fortnite etc.

 

The same can be argued here. Not only has Linus invested in the company, he has ties to the company, he loves their products etc, so he is much more inclined to be more negative towards other laptops.

 

Now I'm not saying that this should be purely seen as negative. Linus himself is a huge advocate (his words) for keeping products around longer, repairability, reducing e-waste etc. We know this about him, and you know that when you watch a video of him, that he will judge a product on these points.

Still there is a difference between a general liking to products that reduce e-waste, and having skin in the game.

 

Do I have an issue with Linus' investment? No. I wouldn't say I was for him investing in it, but he is literally putting his money where his mouth is, and I support what Framework is doing. But let's not pretend it has zero impact. The question everyone has to ask, is whether you care about the impact, and if you are for or against it. 

Yeah, that's not even close to being the same 

 

Also did you watch the video and his reasoning behind why it wasn't a conflict? 

[Cosmic Emotion]

1 minute ago, perryckd said:

 

Doesnt matter, i showed that Steve is no angel. He made a mistake himself, kept quiet after all the new subs came in, did he not? 

 

He is a battle hardened guerilla, He basically admit in this video, he took months preparing for it (seriously?). He bet the internet will turn on LMG, as everyone expect it will.

 

You seriously believe Steve gives the slightest of cares about what will happen to LMG?

 

I'm pretty sure Steve only cares for his own channel and tries to be of the best quality.

 

I don't know if you have any stakes in LMG but being so naive has to derive out of something. Be wary of your ego is the only thing I can say.

[NullPointerError]

2 hours ago, Empyreal said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just show him Alex reviewing the new Dell XPS 15 and Apple laptops in ShortCircuit already prove the point. Continuously bashing Apple for issues such as the notch while praising Dell XPS for putting the camera without using the notch, and then downplaying the fact that the webcam of XPS is noticeably worse than Apple’s. Moreover, he just simply skips the fact that XPS is well known for thermal throttling and no lab test is done to show if the issue is fixed or not.

 

Remember promise to never recommend Windows laptops until Windows Modern Standby is fixed? Modern Standby is still not fixed and they already recommend windows laptops, I guess promise to viewers means nothing comparing to sponsor money

[martixy]

I hope linus realizes that this backlash is not over this ONE THING, but that it was the spark over many small things that have been building up. That's how this stuff works.

[perryckd]

1 minute ago, RWxAshley said:

Ok. Great. How does this change anything being said about LMG, and how its operating? Can we get back on topic.

 

Well if GuerillaSteve had been more ethical as he preached, he could have done things better, same as LMG. 

 

Like if Guerillanexus actually checked with Amd on the vsoc values in Agesa, who was the one mandated 1.4v as max, Asus or Amd? GuerillaN did not bother to fact check, just wanted to hit another big boy for max damage. They keeping their base in their palms with their goliath vs david narratives

[MotherboardsInThePark]

10 minutes ago, joeygreco1985 said:

 

Nope, time sheets are what keeps employers from getting free overtime out of their staff. Time sheets keep BOTH employer and employee honest, and thats the way it should be. 

If you can't trust your employees, why did you hire them?

[Joshhelberg]

4 hours ago, Empyreal said:

As an avid follower of LTT and someone who has made purchases based on their reviews, I've been increasingly concerned about the accuracy and ethical practices behind their recent content. I recently came across GN's video highlighting some serious issues, and I'd like to delve into them.

 

1. Investment in LTT Labs:

If I recall correctly, LTT has invested an estimate of $10 million in LTT Labs, a facility replete with specialized equipment and industry specialists. The promise was that this would lead to more rigorous testing and dependable reviews. However, despite this significant investment, LTT's recent content appears to be plagued by misinformation and errors. This raises questions about the efficacy and purpose of LTT Labs. What's the point if it's not leading to the precise and reliable information that viewers expect?

 

2. Billet Labs Incident:

Moving on to the particularly concerning case involves a copper waterblock for the RTX 3090 Ti, provided by Billet Labs, a small 2 person startup. Instead of testing it on the intended GPU, LTT forced it onto an RTX 4090 and subsequently condemned it as subpar. This is not only a methodological failure but also an ethical one, as they proceeded to auction the prototype without Billet Labs' knowledge, despite requests to send it back. The disregard for proper testing protocol and Billet Labs' requests paints a worrying picture.

 

3. Overall Integrity and Ethical Considerations:

Given LTT's valuation of over $100 million and a staff of 120+ employees (considering they have industry experts as well), it's alarming to see these lapses in judgment and professionalism. Whether it's inaccurate data or questionable interactions with smaller companies, these issues undermine the trust viewers like myself have placed in them.

 

Conclusion:

The purpose of tech reviews is to provide unbiased, accurate information to guide consumers. While LTT has been a go-to source for me, these recent incidents make it hard to overlook the growing pattern of inaccuracies and questionable ethics. LTT must take immediate steps to restore faith in their review process and reconsider how they engage with the broader tech community.

 

In my opinion, LTT's lapses in recent times are a poignant reminder that no matter how big or influential a brand becomes, maintaining integrity, transparency, and respect for all stakeholders is vital. I hope they will reflect on these incidents and take steps to ensure that their reviews and actions live up to the high standards that their viewers deserve. GN did not have to create the video but they did (I'm thankful they did) because someone has to hold LTT accountable, if not who else?

 

P.S. If you have not watched the GN video in totality, please do not respond to me because I will deem your opinion as pointless. I'm just referring the guy who said he didn't watch GN's video because it's pointless.

Agree with you 100%.  LTT is what got me into the build and PC part. I've also bought parts off their recommendation. LTT needs to do better and fix its problems. Linus also needs to take a long look in the mirror and realize he fuck up big time a destroyed people's trust in his company with his action and his bad response to GN video. 

[Reclus]

2 minutes ago, Neroon said:

How does this simple thing causing you confusion? Linus and Steve know each other! If Steve were to contact Linus and give him the heads up that would be straight up collusion in covering the issue! The amount of deflection you have to use to not see this is just enormous. This was said here a 100 times and you are still not getting it. The way LTT is handling this issue is precisely the reason Steve should not under any circumstance contact Linus to ask for comment! LTT's mistakes are LTT's mistakes. Steve is not under any obligation either professional or moral to inform LTT on what he is working on in this instance. The more you dig your heels and not grasp this, the worse the problem will be. You clearly don't realize how thin of a line LTT is walking here. 

[filpo]

Just now, MotherboardsInThePark said:

If you can't trust your employees, why did you hire them?

YOLO

[perryckd]

2 minutes ago, Cosmic Emotion said:

 

You seriously believe Steve gives the slightest of cares about what will happen to LMG?

 

I'm pretty sure Steve only cares for his own channel and tries to be of the best quality.

 

I don't know if you have any stakes in LMG but being so naive has to derive out of something. Be wary of your ego is the only thing I can say.

 

"best" quality but still let their own inaccuracy have a pass go. Where is his own up? 

[Cosmic Emotion]

Just now, martixy said:

I hope linus realizes that this backlash is not over this ONE THING, but that it was the spark over many small things that have been building up. That's how this stuff works.

 

Linus has to step down completely imo. This is such a bad look for the company that even if things get fixed, somehow, something extraordinary has to happen for him to get his credibility back. At this point he's just a hazard. If he cares about his, honestly, amazing achievements he has to step down.

[dustypaws]

1 minute ago, perryckd said:

 

Well if GuerillaSteve had been more ethical as he preached, he could have done things better, same as LMG. 

 

Like if Guerillanexus actually checked with Amd on the vsoc values in Agesa, who was the one mandated 1.4v as max, Asus or Amd? GuerillaN did not bother to fact check, just wanted to hit another big boy for max damage. They keeping their base in their palms with their goliath vs david narratives

You're really trying to make that Guerilla thing stick.... Is your real name Donald or Matt by any chance?

[throwawayManMode]

1 minute ago, perryckd said:

 

Well if GuerillaSteve had been more ethical as he preached, he could have done things better, same as LMG. 

 

Like if Guerillanexus actually checked with Amd on the vsoc values in Agesa, who was the one mandated 1.4v as max, Asus or Amd? GuerillaN did not bother to fact check, just wanted to hit another big boy for max damage. They keeping their base in their palms with their goliath vs david narratives

Instead of attacking GN you should be trying to get Linus to address the issues identified in the video.

LTT's issues are completely independent of any other company. Or are you just here to sling mud?

[fartmuncher69_420]

11 minutes ago, Empyreal said:

 

What a weak ass argument. I literally proved you wrong with those videos and you react by burying your head in the sand. It's akin to a kid covering his ears and shouting that you can't hear anything. What a sore loser.

He didn't even declare he was a framework investor in these 2 videos.

 

 

In the first video he discloses it at 6:55

[Cosmic Emotion]

Just now, perryckd said:

 

"best" quality but still let their own inaccuracy have a pass go. Where is his own up? 

Forget Steve. This is not GN's forums. You're doing more hurt to LMG and to other consumers than you think.

[Godiwa]

8 minutes ago, laundmo said:

i find it pretty damn ironic how GN made a blatantly obvious factual mistake in a vido criticising LTT for, mostly, obvious mistakes.

 

at around 20:00 GN criticised a TechQuickie for claiming the 5600x3d had 99mb cache. He did this by showing the specsheet for the 5600x. that's just full on a different CPU.

listen to it again... the video mentions the NON 3D as having 36MB cash... which it does not... it has 32MB + 3MB = ??? yes? which was what the sheet was for... so your comment is false