Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, maplepants said:

For a drama video like he made, he doesn't need to. But if he actually cared about the Billet Labs story, and not just generating drama clicks, he would have reached out to LMG. 

GN mentions himself that it isn't drama at all, the risk is greater than just doing it "for clicks"  the risk is upsetting people at youtube, tech companies, or other competitors in the tech industry, he didn't have anything to gain with this video. Making videos going after companies doesn't gain a tech reviewer anything especially when tech companies close to a much more popular youtuber could decide to block GN because he calls them out instead of being a sellout.

1 hour ago, maplepants said:

The Labs comment isn't a hit. It's an employee in the Labs team explaining what they think differentiates them from GN. And the hit on the WAN Show last year didn't even name GN. Linus complained about people making drama videos over the backpack thing and GN knew it was about them, because they were making drama videos about the backpack thing.

I disagree, it was a hit, the Labs engineer made a claim that their benchmarking process is more accurate and better than GN or HWUB, without even asking them for comment. As for the WAN show hit, of course they didn't mention them by name, but its very obvious who they were talking about. Also the backpack video wasn't for drama either, it was a call out to LMG to be more honest with their audience and be willing to apologize when being wrong.  You clearly don't watch any of the videos GN makes.

1 hour ago, maplepants said:

GN made a video partly complaining about accuracy in LMG videos, but didn't care to accurately report on the Billet Labs story; the foundation of their video. The very contradiction lays the motives bare. 

 

Of course it's true that graphs in LMG videos ideally shouldn't have any mistakes. And I guess GN disagrees with the stylistic choice of on-screen corrections. But it's pretty rich to have these guys half ass their Billet Labs story in a video claiming LMG half asses their reviews.

What exactly were they wrong on with the Billet labs segment? GN reached out to Billet for confirmation on what happened, and I personally trust GN on this more, given that LMG really screwed up on the whole review, bashed the company without a correct review, then sold off the water block.

I think LMG needs to take down the Billet water block video and offer a public apology, but it seems Linus doesn't want too much attention on it and thinks it can just go away by paying off a start up company even though he ruined their name by wrongly saying the water block was crap.

[Dom1252]

1 minute ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

Then I sincerely hope not too much video footage of you exist, because with these sort of standards you could get into a lot of trouble with some careful cuts of you talking about something you like or appreciate. It's very easy to defend a particular approach if it agrees with your opinion in this case, now imagine the same tactic being used against yourself.

Yes, because debunking ethics guidelines ... (I'll let the reader imagine the follow-up on that one, too many juicy options available.)

careful cuts? 

are you really saying that GN did wrong to LMG in this video? that they were faking anything or spreading false information? then you are just a fanboi 

 

 

Yes, because debunking ethics guidelines - debunking that this sniplet applies to this situation

[Shlouski]

39 minutes ago, Empyreal said:

I'm glad Steve made the video because as a LTT viewer for almost a decade, I want to know if I'm consuming inaccurate information.

 

I would agree if LTT were in the habit of hiding their mistakes, but so far have been quite upfront about their mistakes IMO, they make the community aware in affected videos and they often talk about them on the WAN show, GN has not added anything we didn't already know. 

 

LTT has a large community following their every move, if LTT were to stray the community would speak up a long time before GN spoke up.

 

51 minutes ago, Empyreal said:

I see this debacle as a successful attempt of a friend (Steve) telling Linus that "Hey bro, you're steering off course. Open your eyes before it's too late".

 

You can be sure that they haven't been friends for a while, and are definitely not friends now.

 

Linus:

"I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this" "I expressed my disappointment" " I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready."

 

Linus cares even less about Steve's opinions, how has this been a success exactly?

 

1 hour ago, Empyreal said:

If Steve did this behind the door with Linus, I would view that as irresponsible

 

Doing it in public the way he has done it has maximized the damage, not responsible IMO.

[RedRound2]

2 minutes ago, Texbobcat said:

You mean to tell me in the entire month from when they initially emailed linus for it to be returned till LTX they didn't even attempt to go get it from storage to ship back, and you mean to tell me linus has no part in approving of what items were to be auctioned off. If linus had nothing to do with approving of what's to be auctioned off he is a horrible owner as he would be allowing anyone to just sell his property.

There are so many mistakes that have to happen for something like this to occur that it's more than a few oopsies. 

I am pretty sure Billet Labs wasn't communicating with Linus directly

 

I am pretty sure there is a chain of people in Logistics handling such stuff and they may have forgotten to inform the concerned writer when they deal with probably hundreds of emails a week around the same stuff.

 

I am pretty sure Linus probably wasn't involved in the auction stuff. It was one mistake in probably tens of thousands of product samples they got and returned. It happens. Its human.

 

Yes, obviously this would not happen in a company of 5-10 people. But LMG is not. Between Logistics, writers, upper management, auction and event team - they're already over 50

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

1 minute ago, Texbobcat said:

You mean to tell me in the entire month from when they initially emailed linus for it to be returned till LTX they didn't even attempt to go get it from storage to ship back, and you mean to tell me linus has no part in approving of what items were to be auctioned off. If linus had nothing to do with approving of what's to be auctioned off he is a horrible owner as he would be allowing anyone to just sell his property.

Who did they contact within LMG through which channels? Communication screw ups are common in companies, and LMG has gotten to the size that you can't just email someone and they can go and grab something off a shelf and do something with it I suppose. All of this is pretty much why it was a good idea to get a separate CEO I think, it means you have someone who actually uniquely cares about avoiding this sort of fuck up.

[Dom1252]

Just now, Shlouski said:

I would agree if LTT were in the habit of hiding their mistakes, but so far have been quite upfront about their mistakes IMO, they make the community aware in affected videos and they often talk about them on the WAN show, GN has not added anything we didn't already know. 

LTT has a large community following their every move, if LTT were to stray the community would speak up a long time before GN spoke up.

You can be sure that they haven't been friends for a while, and are definitely not friends now.

Linus:

"I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this" "I expressed my disappointment" " I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready."

Linus cares even less about Steve's opinions, how has this been a success exactly?

Doing it in public the way he has done it has maximized the damage, not responsible IMO.

LTT has a clear habit of hiding their mistakes 

when was the last time you saw LTT video admitting some? 

[ConcernedCitizen]

13 hours ago, LinusTech said:

(like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication...

 

21 minutes ago, TheProfosist said:

Money for charity is good to see, however much it is. Just sucks how it was raised this time.

My main issue is the pedantry that Linus is trying to argue between selling the monoblock being so much different from auctioning it off for charity, knowing fully well that their financial department would have done all the necessary paperwork to guarantee the whole charitable donation would have been tax deductible ie. would have helped the bottom line of LMG which is directly comparable (although not as sizeable) to a monetary benefit that would be incurred from directly selling it.

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

1 minute ago, Dom1252 said:

careful cuts? 

are you really saying that GN did wrong to LMG in this video? that they were faking anything or spreading false information? then you are just a fanboi 

 

 

Yes, because debunking ethics guidelines - debunking that this sniplet applies to this situation

Yes, yes they did.

 

And regarding ethics guidelines, it's like age of consent, if you got to start to argue about it, you're probably doing something sketchy already.

[TheBeast2211]

5 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

It's proper for a media outlet to reach out to the subject of a piece before publication. This is why you hear "We reached out to so-and-so for comment" so often in news pieces.

 

It's a journalistic best practice. It's not a requirement, and sometimes either isn't possible or isn't a good idea, but given that the GN piece was not time sensitive, and LMG couldn't have done anything to prevent the story from going live, I don't see why GN shouldn't reach out for comment.

 

I still feel the piece is justified, but reaching out for comment would have been a good move, as LMG can now claim to have been treated unfairly. Which is why you should follow such best practices whenever possible.

In this case the journalistic best practice you are talking about does not apply. That is reserved for situations where previously undisclosed or unreported information is being brought to light. Everything GN raised in their video is already in the public domain, and was put there by LMG themselves. There is no need for comment on something that has in effect already been commented on by the party in question.

[tinted]

I kind of understand LTT/linus not wanting to address this in video format but I feel like a thorough fact-checked response in some format for everything GN said is needed. 

 

Let me explain why it is needed, consider the chain fountain videos made by Electroboom and SteveMold. Every time one of the other made a video in response to the other I was convinced by the one that published most recent video. Like, I don't have time to research on my own or the understanding of the concepts to know better so I am swayed by whoever made the most recent video in that exchange. 

 

Similarly, right now I relate to GN and his claims, especially since some of the things he mentioned are very true and very real problems like the whole situation with billet labs. Being a viewer since the inception of LTT I also feel like the videos are rushed and LTT acknowledges it as well but because they don't or cant give roadmap to what they are doing to address this, I am just left to hope for better and the hope is depleting because I can't see the change or what they are doing outside the videos. More behind the scene video would be appreciated to relate to your struggles, I know they are more in floatplane but I can't buy that. Anyway, the GN video has more than those claims and those things I feel like need a response because not everything is cut and dry and right and wrong. Things are more nuanced than just right and wrong and I don't have time or resources to know better in this case as well other than giving LTT benefit of doubt that they will take critisim and improve because of their past reputation. But It won't be the same watching the videos anymore because it is my hope instead of something more concrete like your response explaining things. 

 

But, GN is not wrong to consider LTT as a big corporation but they could have contacted LTT for more information though, it will still be GN choice whether or not to consider the information provided by LTT. More information is always better but GN might also have a valid reason for not doing that, IDK. We will never know. The whole Asus motherboard bios thing was also handled differently by LTT and rest of the tech youtubers. I get that LTT tried to contact Asus and get a better understanding before reacting but never made any statement on the matter explaining everything other than few comments on WAN show. I feel like LTT did not feel like covering it, but I want to know why it did not feel like covering it, I hope its not because they are sponsors( not even partially it should be this reason). Only other reason I can think of is that they don't want to cover controversial things on their channel anymore and its their right to set vision/rules but I don't like that reason either if that is the reason that is.

 

There was a video questioning Kurzgesagt ethics and watching Kurzgesagt videos until they made a video addressing the issue was not the same.

 

 

[Dom1252]

6 minutes ago, DeerDK said:

And the auction part? LMG could have informed that they were working to make up for it?

and that would change what? 

[GameFox]

Time will tell if LTT changes in response to the criticism or if they will continue to sweep it under the rug like nothing happened.

 

I figure they do not want to draw anymore attention to the video than it has already been getting, so to not undermine their reliability and accuracy of past and future reviews.

 

Side note-I hope you all have a wonderful morning/day/night. It was a pleasure posting on here for the first time today. 

[Dom1252]

Just now, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

Yes, yes they did.

 

 

ah ok, then there's no point of discussion with you, enjoy your time with Linus pillow

[Karon]

I LOVE how everyone bitches about early access games, day one patches, the horrible release states of AAA titles etc, but when Labs isn't up and running, produces worthless junk data and Linus uses that data instead of waiting for Labs to be working, tons of people try to defend it. 

 

It's hilarious. 

[RWxAshley]

People still arguing that GN needed to reach out to Linus. Ok lets address this.

What changes with GN reaching out to Linus before the video is released? Nothing. The same point remains that LMG neglected to stay in contact with its business associates, and poor communication happened due to neglect, and poor procedures within LMG. The entire video built up to that, and the reason GN didn't focus on it nearly as much is that it would distract from the core message of the video. LMG mismanagement, and laissez-faire attitude has finally led to issues affecting business associates outside of their internal office space, and has now caused mistrust in their abilities to handle important assets like this as a professional. This could even be argued that this reflects poorly not just on LMG, but any youtube content creator that would love to look at prototype equipment to show to their audience.

This attitude, and response should send a clear message that anything sent to LMG should never be expected back until they make real changes to how the company handles itself.

Its not strictly about Billet either as this can very easily happen again due to Linus waving it off as not a big deal, and showing no concern over losing potentially life changing business assets. Espically given that this recent issue is just one of many in LMG's long history of equipment just flat out going missing, employees taking company property home on a whim, and just last week had found out that someone took a prototype backpack out of the office, and gave it away for charity that Linus was upset over losing. This isn't some weird new issue that just happened. I know hindsight is 20/20, but this is known that LMG is bad at keep track of its own assets. Now we know they are terrible at keeping track of outside companies assets.

[Isuck Assimov]

average LTT fan adores Steve and hates Linus.

As it should be.

[Dom1252]

1 minute ago, TheBeast2211 said:

In this case the journalistic best practice you are talking about does not apply. That is reserved for situations where previously undisclosed or unreported information is being brought to light. Everything GN raised in their video is already in the public domain, and was put there by LMG themselves. There is no need for comment on something that has in effect already been commented on by the party in question.

stop trying reasoning with LMG hardcore fanbois! 

Linus said GN should reach for comments, therefore GN BAD

[Shlouski]

2 minutes ago, Dom1252 said:

LTT has a clear habit of hiding their mistakes 

when was the last time you saw LTT video admitting some? 

 

Unfortunately it feels like every week on WAN show.

Every video with a correction, GN shows some of these in his video. 

[ericmadeyourday]

Oh boy, I feel a lot different about that, than most of the folks out there.

 

Are there Problems? Yes, undoubtedly. Is the GN Video the right way to point that out? Oh hell no. What I see in this video is a guy who's fucked up because of some things first said (but not ment as he got it) by Tim and later in the WAN Show other things by Linus. He even pointed that out in his video. So instead of showing that he's the whiny guy he is, he took problems that definitely exist, puffed them up and made a drama video in wich he stated, that all of this happens in good will. Yeah. Sure. Nobody could see that sh*t coming.

 

And yes, he disabled monetization on that video and didn't bring up a sponsor commercial part... In this video. Does anyone really think that this crap isn't making his channel bigger? Does anyone think he didn't consider that? There would have been so many ways to do this without getting on a high horse. Discussing problems you have with someone you know personally in public spaces is never a good idea. Just a sign of bad taste.

The amount of sh*tty and absolutely angry, hateful bs I read today only on freaking reddit without even searching for it is just disgusting. That is what you get if you trigger a public discussion filled with accusations about a content creator and/or the company he founded. I'm pretty sure Steve at least took this in consideration and I feel like he wanted exactly that. For me this video feels like revenge. Definitely doesn't make me like him more.

 

And once again: Yes there are a lot of facts in this video about problems that exist, but that's not my point here. My point is, that this way is absolutely the worst way to bring that up. I met people like this in my life and this kind of behavior has always been a red flag to me. Doing this to a public figure isn't better or worse in my opinion. It's just sh*tty behavior and absolutely not cool.

 

By the way and in terms of transparency: I never liked Steve's videos for two reasons. I find the way the videos are made boring, espacially the often nearly endless length. The second reason is, that I always had a feeling that he gives most of the products more crap than they deserve. Maybe it's just me, but there is always a feeling of negativity in his videos. And yes, I only registered in the forums to make this post because I'm totally unrightfully really angry.

[Dom1252]

Just now, Shlouski said:

 

Unfortunately it feels like every week on WAN show.

Every video with a correction, GN shows some of these in his video. 

Live show that doesn't even show in uploads on youtube anymore... 

also it's several hours long and no one cares, most people have it as a background noise... 

 

and even then, Linus usually doubles down instead of admitting mistakes

[dragonuck76]

Justs watched the video with the cooler, and yes it wasnt great, but they do state that the manufactured did advise them that cooler may work with a 4090ti, so in that LTT did nothing wrong.  They still should have returned the item, but that is something between Billet Labs and LTT, not for the wider community to jump on the bandwagon.  For the rest of the talk about mis-info, it is not all videos this occurs on, but a few, and they state they are correcting this as they go along, and more...so as a team grows, this would be expected and learning is done....  no one is perfect and I find the GN has actually mislead on Billet Labs with LTT. Again watch that video, as for GN video, I still can not find 44mins of my time wasted, as its all about what even Linus and Luke have stated on the WAN show, they have made mistakes, and they are working on making sure where those are done they do not repeat this, and they are working to make sure, but still mistakes will happen so lets see how they improve as I think they will

[Bananasplit_00]

12 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

A possible hot take, but I'm not sure Linus even really cares. He's already put the blame on GN Steve for not addressing him privately, and doesn't want to address this whole situation publicly in a video, it just seems like a bad take and only makes the optics of this issue seem worse.

I also doubt Linus cares for my comment on the issue but I can't help but call out this bullshit. The optics of this are just as brown as I paint them. This could literally destroy these people's livelihoods if it gets in the wrong hands.

 

All because a HUGE company would not break a shoot to get the right card or pay not even the supposed prise of the product in someone's time to test it right.

 

It's greedy, it's awful and I am surprised this isn't a criminal case or a lawsuit.

 

As someone currently doing my masters in engineering, this is upsetting to my very soul. The disrespect, the greed, the misconduct... If it was me sending someone I highly respected a prototype for review and I got this treatment, my soul would be crushed.

[DeerDK]

4 minutes ago, Dom1252 said:

and that would change what? 

If reporting in good faith, giving the full available picture.

[Dom1252]

1 minute ago, SAUVE76 said:

Justs watched the video with the cooler, and yes it wasnt great, but they do state that the manufactured did advise them that cooler may work with a 4090ti, so in that LTT did nothing wrong.  They still should have returned the item, but that is something between Billet Labs and LTT, not for the wider community to jump on the bandwagon.  For the rest of the talk about mis-info, it is not all videos this occurs on, but a few, and they state they are correcting this as they go along, and more...so as a team grows, this would be expected and learning is done....  no one is perfect and I find the GN has actually mislead on Billet Labs with LTT. Again watch that video, as for GN video, I still can not find 44mins of my time wasted, as its all about what even Linus and Luke have stated on the WAN show, they have made mistakes, and they are working on making sure where those are done they do not repeat this, and they are working to make sure, but still mistakes will happen so lets see how they improve as I think they will

I love how LTT cannot do anything wrong... 

I mean, not like that cooler was sent with a GPU that would work with it... 

[Karon]

3 minutes ago, ericmadeyourday said:

Oh boy, I feel a lot different about that, than most of the folks out there.

 

Are there Problems? Yes, undoubtedly. Is the GN Video the right way to point that out? Oh hell no. What I see in this video is a guy who's fucked up because of some things first said (but not ment as he got it) by Tim and later in the WAN Show other things by Linus. He even pointed that out in his video. So instead of showing that he's the whiny guy he is, he took problems that definitely exist, puffed them up and made a drama video in wich he stated, that all of this happens in good will. Yeah. Sure. Nobody could see that sh*t coming.

 

And yes, he disabled monetization on that video and didn't bring up a sponsor commercial part... In this video. Does anyone really think that this crap isn't making his channel bigger? Does anyone think he didn't consider that? There would have been so many ways to do this without getting on a high horse. Discussing problems you have with someone you know personally in public spaces is never a good idea. Just a sign of bad taste.

The amount of sh*tty and absolutely angry, hateful bs I read today only on freaking reddit without even searching for it is just disgusting. That is what you get if you trigger a public discussion filled with accusations about a content creator and/or the company he founded. I'm pretty sure Steve at least took this in consideration and I feel like he wanted exactly that. For me this video feels like revenge. Definitely doesn't make me like him more.

 

And once again: Yes there is a lot of facts in this video about problems that exist, but that's not my point here. My point is, that this way is absolutely the worst way to bring that up. I met people like this in my life and this kind of behavior has always been a red flag to me. Doing this to a public figure isn't better or worse in my opinion. It's just sh*tty behavior and absolutely not cool.

 

By the way and in terms of transparency: I never liked Steve's videos for two reasons. I find the way the videos are made boring, espacially the often nearly endless length. The second reason is, that I always had a feeling that he gives most of the products more crap than they deserve. Maybe it's just me, but there is always a feeling of negativity in his videos. And yes, I only registered in the forums to make this post because I'm totally unrightfully really angry.

Let me translate:

 

Linus mislead customers with crap data, swapped the videos for corrected videos IN THE ONLY WAY THAT DOESN'T LET PEOPLE KNOW IT WAS SWAPPED and does nothing to try and inform the misinformed users. 

 

BUT GODDAMN STEVE SHOULDN'T LET THE PUBLIC KNOW ABOUT THIS!