Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[treestain]

1 minute ago, Dom1252 said:

there's nobody in this thread that gave a single valid reason for GN to reach out to LMG before publishing this video, it's all just "well they should" 

It's because thats what GN has done for every other company they report on. they've usually been very good at that. This video was for some reason an exception

[RedRound2]

3 minutes ago, MotherboardsInThePark said:

The community is mad about Linus' response. He is acting like a child. And you're acting like a fanboy.

If you bothered to read my entire post, I do mention my fair share of criticisms as well. I also mentioned how his thinking as seeped into all of this. Please read it again.

 

But on his LTT forum post, I don't think it's childish. He has admitted to the factual mistakes, he has claimed he is going to compensate billet labs for their loss and he is right that Gamers nexus should have reached out to him before publishing his piece

3 minutes ago, Texbobcat said:

Linus destroys a company 3x, steals their property and somehow fails to return it in an entire month, gas lights his community, Degrades the company, "I'm sorry for what you are going through"

You are talking as if they did it intentionally. They very well did not, unless you have proof. It was a long chain of communication breakdown (which is not really uncommon). 

[EthanBB]

I noticed the quality of LMG videos declining over time, and watching Steve's video opened my eyes to how Linus himself pushed his company to pump out too many videos, compromising on quality. I don't think there is any reason to reach out to Linus for comment, the video was just a compilation of publicly available information.
I want to hold companies accountable for mistakes they make, so this is a goodbye from a super long time FloatPlane user.

[MotherboardsInThePark]

Just now, PhilGoodInc said:

My take on the GN video:

Yes, the billet labs debacle is bad. LTT/LMG have stuffed up big with that one.

 

The errors seem very nitpicky. Yes there are errors, but the conclusions made are generally unaffected by these errors. I do agree there needs to be less errors, but the severity of them is blown way of proportion IMO.

 

The thing that bothers me about GN's video, it is posted under the guise of being unmonetised, and "This isn't drama", but at the same time, uses over the top phrases such as "desperately needed conversation" "complete chaos" "Irresponsible actions" "harmful information to viewers" "reckless, irresponsible and concerning". The first 1-2 minutes of the video also seems a bit petty and unprofessional, it starts the video on strange note, especially when they are insisting this isnt drama. To me, I can see through the whole "good guy Steve" act, this was all calculated. 

You're missing the point. The problem isn't that there are errors. The problem is that they are way too frequent, they are not corrected properly, and then that bald guy from Labs claims that their testing is better than GN's or HUB's.

 

You, my guy, are clearly biased.

[Dom1252]

Just now, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

Because that's literally attacking someone's credibility and not giving them a chance to defend themselves?

what? they're not making claims out of the blue, GN was just posting what is in LMG videos 

defend themselves? how, why? especially why? 

give them chance to sweep it under a rug and delete these videos? 

 

GN made a correct step by not going to LMG. just like LMG usually doesn't go to anyone either 

[DeerDK]

3 minutes ago, Dom1252 said:

what is the reason why should GN reach out? 

just because Linus said so? 

 

there's nobody in this thread that gave a single valid reason for GN to reach out to LMG before publishing this video, it's all just "well they should" 

"

....

 

If an article contains personal or serious allegations or claims against an individual, it may be appropriate and necessary to give that individual an opportunity to respond to these claims, or to deny them if they wish.

 

....."

 

From a link to ethical journalism

[Dom1252]

Just now, DeerDK said:

"

....

If an article contains personal or serious allegations or claims against an individual, it may be appropriate and necessary to give that individual an opportunity to respond to these claims, or to deny them if they wish.

....."

 

From a link to ethical journalism

this was debunked in this thread like 20 times already, stop it

[DeerDK]

Just now, Dom1252 said:

this was debunked in this thread like 20 times already, stop it

what was debunked?

[Babymillie]

Long time fan, account since 2017 but never posted anything on forums all i say

i unsubscribed 

 

From GN channel, i saw the video on my feed i watched 20 min and i just closed it

 

its Drama and that's all it is I will still continue Watch LTT , be subscribed on Floatplane for as i saw on comments here and comments on his video it was all about mouse thing witch Linus mentions in previous wan show btw about the error, done deal for me why drag it out, and about the water cool block that was not suppose to be auction off and used a wrong video card to test with, boo hoo price was still 800 + or so whatever like most of us can even afford it i sure cant , plus Linus compensated that company for the price they agreed on,

 

I may be a fan girl for ltt but i so was for GN to,
Steve attacking Linus like this common he dint even contacted Linus for comment about it before he made this video and using cut video clips without contexts whatsoever, zooming in on Lukes and Linus faces for expressions???? please

[FUTDomi]

7 minutes ago, treestain said:

I never said he should "let it slide."

 

LMG did not put their credibility in "jeopardy." It was one employee, who got his facts wrong, who was in a 20 second clip on a Twitter post. There wasn't an hour long video about Gamers Nexus attacking the company as a whole on the LTT Channel. I didnt even hear about it until now, same with plenty of others. Gamers Nexus could've replied to the post, they could've reached out to Linus directly as Linus is very quick to fix and resolve things, but they didnt. They pitifully lit a community on fire hoping for their competition to go with it. This isnt a fun and nifty topic, this is bad.

 

LMG didn't need to reach out for comment, this was a stupid 30 second rant by an employee, not a hour long documentary.

 

Yes LMG needs to improve and receive valid criticism. As us all humans need to. But lighting his community on fire and making him and his entire company questionable does nothing but harm. Read this forums comment section. People are outraged and pissed and are canceling their subscriptions and attacking Linus and his "shills." Again, over a short clip on Twitter by a random employee. This whole thing is ridiculous. This wasn't journalism nor criticism, this was a successful attempt to recreate past drama and hopefully burn the company down with it so there won't be as much competition with GN over a stupid clip on Twitter, which again, could've been cleared up very quickly and easily. Linus didn't use his time and money with writers and editors to make a movie length attack on GN, this whole thing is because of a clip on Twitter... Absolutely pathetic.

 

The simple, TL;DR, is that Gamers Nexus needed extra fries with his salt.

 

Exactly. And Steve knows how to put the audience in his side:

 

- Announce you are not monetizing the video (as if matters, he's going to get so many views that it will bump other of his content that is monetised)

- Have this attitude of "I am the small guy fighting these evil big corporations" (this is not something he has done against LTT)

[NuDimon]

4 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

...

 

Do you know what my problem with this community reaction is? Linus has been very transparent about sponsorships and the offers he got to acquire the company and numerous other things. And that VERY TRANSPARENCY is what is biting him in the back. Look at how many comments here talk about the 100 million dollars in a mocking way (all over Reddit and youtube). Had he not shared, YOU GUYS WOULDN'T HAVE SUCH STRONG AMMUNITION TO hit back at him. And it's not like he has 100 million dollars. It was turned down. It was potential and nothing more. Just because someone is worth so much on paper due to Equity does not actually mean they have that much money to spend. This is exactly the sort of 5-year-old thinking you expect from the internet and it's sad that a generally more informed tech community has fallen prey to this.

...

When they did the free shipping deal on the store he even said it was to inject some capital to help actual cash flow. Paraphrased, but that was the gist of it. People actually thinking there are millions of dollars to throw around are extremely ignorant at best.

[redshirt]

Just now, Vandor said:

This witch hunt and all this fake outrage is insane. 

 

Nobody gave a damn about Billet Labs 2 days ago, in a month nobody will care again.

 

Truly don't believe LMG is out here pulling a rug out from under small businesses for a giggle because they sell overpriced products.

 

They made grave errors/mistakes/communications, it happens. They compensated Billet Labs (Allegedly).

 

Get over it.

 

This video helped bring the issue with billet labs to light, I believe this is the reason people care more about the issue now than two days ago. It is reasonable people are more engaged with the issue after the coverage by GN and it does not make the outrage less genuine.

[YoungBlade]

2 minutes ago, Dom1252 said:

what is the reason why should GN reach out? 

just because Linus said so? 

 

there's nobody in this thread that gave a single valid reason for GN to reach out to LMG before publishing this video, it's all just "well they should" 

It's proper for a media outlet to reach out to the subject of a piece before publication. This is why you hear "We reached out to so-and-so for comment" so often in news pieces.

 

It's a journalistic best practice. It's not a requirement, and sometimes either isn't possible or isn't a good idea, but given that the GN piece was not time sensitive, and LMG couldn't have done anything to prevent the story from going live, I don't see why GN shouldn't reach out for comment.

 

I still feel the piece is justified, but reaching out for comment would have been a good move, as LMG can now claim to have been treated unfairly. Which is why you should follow such best practices whenever possible.

[Dom1252]

Just now, DeerDK said:

what was debunked?

it doesn't apply to this situation and it doesn't state that you have to reach for comment from said party 

there's no "accusation" of incompetence from LMG, there's video snips of LMG admitting to incompetence 

[RedRound2]

2 minutes ago, Stark_Source21 said:

 

Yeah, no. I'm not going after Linus over these errors. I'm "going after" him for the way he's responding to critical feedback.  He's done this before, and he'll probably do it again - had a knee-jerk reaction to critical feedback that he often responds to better further down the line, because the community, his team, and Luke hold him to account. 

 

The system works. 

 

2 minutes ago, GameFox said:

I would agree that the some of the community has gone too far.

 

However, without criticism there is no change. As you stated, the majority of issues (besides the Billet Labs) are not earth shatteringly bad.

 

I believe your response undermines the severity of the arguably terrible response that Linus typed up. It did not paint a positive image of Linus himself. So, I would argue much of the forums responses are in backlash to Linus's response rather than the lack of quality in his videos.

 

Right, I am coming from reddit and youtube. I posted my same comment here because I assumed the 85 page forum was also complaining about the same, rather than his response. I had written on my original post about the same as well. But I don't know. You can't help it but become a little salty after becoming directly attacked by your friend out of the blue, with no warning or a chance of recourse whatsoever

[MisterBanderson]

I may be in the minority here, but after watching the initial "Trust me bro" thing unfold and now this, I personally feel like Linus handled this as best as he could as a business owner, and CEO (at the time). It's obvious that while some of his logic is flawed, however the fact of the matter is that he recognizes it and the creative team is actively improving their processes to fix accuracy issues among other problems outside of the creative team. Being a close follower of LTT and GN, when I saw the video come out yesterday I honestly thought it was a bit uncalled for, but I watched it anyways. All I can say is LTT has communication issues like every other small business who is actively growing (belive me, I deal with this daily) if they are actively working to resolve it, then I have no complaints. I wrote this at 5:00am on the toilet, and while there may be holes in my commentary, these are my feelings on the situation, so let the crucifixion begin.

[HaughtonBothered]

1 minute ago, Babymillie said:

Steve attacking Linus like this common he dint even contacted Linus for comment about it before he made this video and using cut video clips without contexts whatsoever, zooming in on Lukes and Linus faces for expressions???? please

Steve's video could have been a collaboration where he pointed out the issues, and Linus addressed how each would be fixed. Steve would get praise for keeping other tech news outlets honest and for informing everyone about the inaccuracies, and LTT would get praise for stepping up and correcting those issues. It could have been a happy feelings all around video. Steve CHOSE not to go that route. He chose instead to make an antagonistic video. Why? His stated purpose for the video was to inform the public and hold LTT accountable. That purpose would have been served with the happy video scenario as well. So again, why? The main difference between the two videos is that LTT takes a hit to their reputation. It is therefore a reasonable conclusion that THIS was one of the main goals of Steve's video. To hurt LTT.

[DeerDK]

3 minutes ago, bandainamcofan said:

This is the point I keep making: It was not, and is not, a requirement to reach out for comment. There is no breach of journalistic ethics in not reaching out for comment. The video was made in reply to comments made on public facing youtube videos. 

 

If you want to argue it was disproportionate to the comments made, I think that's a fair take. But to continually say he didn't do what he was supposed to do is flat out wrong.

I disagree, but i doubt we can get an overall ruling unless we can get an ethics board involved.

Eventhough we really butted heads, I can respect this ending if you are on board as well?

[Dom1252]

4 minutes ago, Vandor said:

This witch hunt and all this fake outrage is insane. 

Nobody gave a damn about Billet Labs 2 days ago, in a month nobody will care again.

Truly don't believe LMG is out here pulling a rug out from under small businesses for a giggle because they sell overpriced products.

They made grave errors/mistakes/communications, it happens. They compensated Billet Labs (Allegedly).

Get over it.

how many people knew about that prototype fiasco? 

[Texbobcat]

5 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

If you bothered to read my entire post, I do mention my fair share of criticisms as well. I also mentioned how his thinking as seeped into all of this. Please read it again.

 

But on his LTT forum post, I don't think it's childish. He has admitted to the factual mistakes, he has claimed he is going to compensate billet labs for their loss and he is right that Gamers nexus should have reached out to him before publishing his piece

You are talking as if they did it intentionally. They very well did not, unless you have proof. It was a long chain of communication breakdown (which is not really uncommon). 

You mean to tell me in the entire month from when they initially emailed linus for it to be returned till LTX they didn't even attempt to go get it from storage to ship back, and you mean to tell me linus has no part in approving of what items were to be auctioned off. If linus had nothing to do with approving of what's to be auctioned off he is a horrible owner as he would be allowing anyone to just sell his property.

There are so many mistakes that have to happen for something like this to occur that it's more than a few oopsies. 

[treestain]

1 minute ago, FUTDomi said:

 

Exactly. And Steve knows how to put the audience in his side:

 

- Announce you are not monetizing the video (as if matters, he's going to get so many views that many of them will so straight after other of his content that is monetised)

- Have this attitude of "I am the small guy fighting these evil big corporations" (this is not something he has done against LTT)

But don't forget to decorate the desk and background with his name and merch...

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

Just now, Dom1252 said:

what? they're not making claims out of the blue, GN was just posting what is in LMG videos 

defend themselves? how, why? especially why? 

give them chance to sweep it under a rug and delete these videos? 

 

GN made a correct step by not going to LMG. just like LMG usually doesn't go to anyone either 

Then I sincerely hope not too much video footage of you exist, because with these sort of standards you could get into a lot of trouble with some careful cuts of you talking about something you like or appreciate. It's very easy to defend a particular approach if it agrees with your opinion in this case, now imagine the same tactic being used against yourself.

 

2 minutes ago, Dom1252 said:

this was debunked in this thread like 20 times already, stop it

Yes, because debunking ethics guidelines ... (I'll let the reader imagine the follow-up on that one, too many juicy options available.)

[DeerDK]

1 minute ago, Dom1252 said:

it doesn't apply to this situation and it doesn't state that you have to reach for comment from said party 

there's no "accusation" of incompetence from LMG, there's video snips of LMG admitting to incompetence 

And the auction part? LMG could have informed that they were working to make up for it?

[Godiwa]

5 minutes ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

Because that's literally attacking someone's credibility and not giving them a chance to defend themselves?

 

That's a low bar for entry to shilling. Say someone talks about VHB tape and goes: this tape is from 3M, so it's probably good. That ain't shilling, that's just going by 3M's track record of actually delivering OK quality products, and that's entirely separate from the countless environmental disasters they've caused and the fact that they ship products that could be labelled as chemical weapons, because they do make pretty good tape on average.

that could be justified if they have a good track record... and doesn't buy media, doesn't have shite warrenties etc. etc. which for example Jays2cents have made a very clear video on, GN has too, heck even LTT did a vide with "asus pulls a trust me bro" on techlinked...

so "oh this must be great" is shilling yes...

[Dom1252]

1 minute ago, Texbobcat said:

You mean to tell me in the entire month from when they initially emailed linus for it to be returned till LTX they didn't even attempt to go get it from storage to ship back, and you mean to tell me linus has no part in approving of what items were to be auctioned off. If linus had nothing to do with approving of what's to be auctioned off he is a horrible owner as he would be allowing anyone to just sell his property.

I disagree that he would be terrible owner if he had no idea about this, LMG is a big company and this isn't something that needs owner approval 

I do think he is horrible owner for letting this happen anyway tho