Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[MotherboardsInThePark]

12 minutes ago, PhilGoodInc said:

i never mentioned any bald guy, and if that clip was indeed the point of that video, then it further cements the my point about GN being petty and unprofessional. I wasn't defending LTT, just pointing out that GN hasn't got the integrity they claim to have. Where is the bias?

 

Also, you say im biased, but you joined the forum only 2 hours ago and your first post is absolute insanity. You have no credibilty.

I actually joined on November 2nd, 2013 but I haven't touched my main account in 3 years so I found it easier to just make a new one. And even if I did just join, many people made accounts today just to comment on this. So what? It doesn't change anything. I don't care about GN's integrity as that's not the thing in question here.

 

You're clinging on to stuff that doesn't matter. Facts are facts and LTT is in the wrong here. Not only that, but their response is very concerning and not at all enough to calm the outrage. Linus' attitude is really disturbing.

[RWxAshley]

Just now, RedRound2 said:

It would've changed a lot.

 

For one, anyone watching GN video will naturally think Linus maliciously sold the cooler for a profit at an auction ignoring their request to return it. That is not what happened. It was a gross miscommunication error and LMG has already committed to compensating them for whatever they deem the value of the cooler. That is the reality and that should have been mentioned.

 

Second, Linus approached the cooler review in a different way. Purely as an item on whether people should buy or not, rather than a technical showcase. He has admitted to that mistake as well.

 

It is a journalistic practice to reach out for comment before completely attempting to destroy someone's credibility. GN talks about framework investment potential conflicts of interest when there is literally no proof or evidence of the same.

 

What GN did was build up drama. They should have approached Linus for comment and then published the video - with the most up-to-date info. All I can help feeling is that he did not approach Linus because he wanted his video to carry pain as much as it did. And that is just sad. 

For your first point. That changes nothing about the situation that has occured due to LMG neglect of its own business. They can compensate, and pay whatever they want, but that doesn't change the fact that LMG broke trust with a business associate, and failed to communicate with this company for months.

Linus reviewing it differently is the issue. I can throw a gpu into my PC, fail to plug the power cable in, and call it a negative review of the GPU, but that is simply bad testing methodology that is far beyond reason. He knew it wasn't fit for the gpu, and why. If he tested it properly, and then added onto the review that its limited to only that specific gpu it was built for what changes about his point? He gave it the best chance, and still kept it original point. The point he wanted to make didn't require him to do the extra work of testing it with the wrong GPU. It would only show how it works, what it works with, and then he can address the limited use of it, and the expense. Nothing would change if he properly tested it, and he could keep his original opinion. He literally loses nothing.

[dragonuck76]

15 minutes ago, Karon said:

Defending a gas lighter with more gas lighting. Classic

but I am here to discuss, and comment on my view, not make comments about others who comment on here, or personel statement towards me, so I would advise to retract, where here to discuss not make personel statements against one another.  So your comment is not welcomed and is in very poor taste

 

[Needfuldoer]

58 minutes ago, bandainamcofan said:

Contacting Linus personally could be seen as him trying to "soften the blow" of the problem for Linus, therefore he's ethically justified in not reaching out for comment.

Well yeah. Why do you think Linus is so upset Steve and the HardwareUnboxed guys didn't reach out to him personally, about this and Tim's lab tour faux pas? 

 

If Steve's video was about any other content creator, it would be a headlining topic on this week's WAN Show.

[WallacEngineering]

11 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

What GN did was build up drama. They should have approached Linus for comment and then published the video - with the most up-to-date info. All I can help feeling is that he did not approach Linus because he wanted his video to carry pain as much as it did. And that is just sad. 

 

Unfortunately for LMG, LTT, and all of us, that isn't true at all. Several attempts have been made not just by GN Hardware Unboxed and several manufacturers of products whose products were misrepresented accidentally in their respected videos. GN pointed out a fair few number of the attempts to show LMG that their data wasn't accurate in the video.

 

The problem is As you can see, Linus simply rejects any criticism or dismisses it as false and then just continues on as if nothing ever happened which is what has triggered this video to be released.

 

You need to understand that GN puts ethics and unbiased professional testing and sound methodologies above all else. You also need to understand that Steve did not want this, there is no universe in which this situation can benefit him in any way shape or form. As he stated at the very beginning, this damages relationships with extremely important people and extremely powerful people that have far more influence than he does.

[Dom1252]

4 minutes ago, Shlouski said:

I don't see your point when it comes to the WAN videos, whether or not people watch them doesn't change the fact he admits he is wrong in them.

my point is, if he wanted to make things right, he would admit mistakes somewhere where people are going to notice this, not in wan show which is watched almost only by the most hardcore fans who often think he "cannot do wrong" 

I mean, if you mess up review of some GPU, next week you are doing review of next GPU, you can say there that you messed up in last one... why only admit this in WAN shows (if even that) where it seems you're doing it only so people can't claim you didn't, while at the same time least amount of people possible will see that you made a mistake? 

 

 

[filpo]

And now we got the duo's take on it 

 

Also anyone else realise the traffic that just caught up?

[E-Waster]

It seems like the forum server can't handle all the traffic this situation is bringing. Either that or Linus is restricting access lol.

[Alex T88]

Don't know if this has been posted, Hardware Unboxed released a video, regarding the situation: 

 

Edit: @filpo beat me to it, by a few seconds

[JiRoDev]

Many instances beyond what Gamers Nexus pointed out can be easily spotted like in M1 Max's review LTT resorted to Dolphin Emulator (using OpenGL which is deprecated on MacOS for like 5 years now) as if they couldn't find any properly optimized test that runs on the Metal API (3D Mark wild life extreme is something that even I can recall on top of my head as a GPU benchmark that supports Metal) to make their out of this world conclusion that the GPU is nowhere near a 3050 laptop, when in fact it is closer to a 3080 laptop when you stop using deprecated APIs like OpenGL and start using Metal API.
Another instance when they were testing the media engine and the result was that the base M1 (with no Media Engine) was heavily outperforming M1 Pro (with Media Engine) and M1 Max (with double Media Engine), and they didn't care one bit to investigate and just put up the graph as a valid benchmark.
Another instance was the Short Circuit video of M2 MBP 14/16", where they stated the screen can sustain 500 nits where in fact it can sustain 1000 nits and peaks at 1600 nits, they mentioned the webcam was 720p when in fact it was 1080p. And they didn't even care to pin a comment correcting it and just let people do the work in the comment section.
These are just things I recall on top of my head that I caught while watching the videos and thought it was strange, seeing Gamers Nexus going beyond that was an eye opener, and seeing Linus doubling down on his stance in a blog post is even more of an eye opener. I was hoping the message would trigger an acknowledgement at the very least and a quality control to address these issues rather than doubling down on such a pathetic stance. The accuracy is a huge problem, and passing down wrong information because they prefer to push 25 videos per week or whatever that quota is screams typical corporate greed rather than users first as they claim to be.
I get the hate against Apple that's generally steaming from PC folks, I'm a PC guy as well and a game developer, and I see some outrageous decisions taken by Apple like pricing 8GB of RAM at $200. But those are not an excuse to use deprecated API's against them to prove that their machines suck, as a reviewer you start from a neutral position and work your way up, not from how can I make this product look bad because the company is bad, which was the dominant message in those reviews as it's much harder to find deprecated benchmarks than properly optimized benchmarks. As a game developer making games for PC/mobile, I was interested in the gaming state of Mac's after the ARM transition, and watching LTT reviews almost convinced me that it's not worth it to care about ARM Mac's as a new platform. But watching basically everyone else convinced me that there's a massive potential, and that the hardware is already there and it's capable, all we need to do is port games to Mac (many big titles are already ported like Resident Evil Village, No Man's Sky, and so much more are coming soon like Death Stranding, Stray, Baldur's Gate 3....).
So for me at least as a game developer always exploring new markets, LTT videos were heavily misleading and almost convinced me to ignore such a huge opportunity. Seeing them doubling down on their stance basically disqualified them as a trusted source from now on, at least for me.

[filpo]

Just now, Alex T88 said:

Don't know if this has been posted, Hardware Unboxed released a video, regarding the situation: 

 

 

Lol I did just now, I posted the full one but this vid is a more compact summary

[rrats]

im glad this has come to light now

[freeagent]

53 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

Why do you think Linus is so upset Steve and the HardwareUnboxed guys didn't reach out to him personally, about this and Tim's lab tour faux pas? 

Because they are sick of his shit.

 

And why the fuck does this website keep crashing lol. Spend some of that YouTube money here big spender.

[R.E. Visser]

Lets discuss the fact that there's a new podcast from down under. And also discuss the take from them on the recent GN video. https://youtu.be/yw39wYJlLRc

 

Edit: @filpo posted this already 

[Polderviking]

Just now, freeagent said:

Because they are sick of his shit.

 

And why the fuck does this website keep crashing lol. Spend some of that YouTube money here big spender.

They turned on visitor verification on Cloudflare so my guess is that they are beeing DDoS-ed...

[VeryScary]

1 hour ago, Empyreal said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, those aren't laptop REVIEWS. You're reaching. 

 

This is a laptop review. It's even stated in the title. 

 

 

[filpo]

2 minutes ago, R.E. Visser said:

Lets discuss the fact that there's a new podcast from down under. And also discuss the take from them on the recent GN video. https://youtu.be/yw39wYJlLRc

Me and @Alex T88 have already posted both the summary of the vid and the full podcast

[Sarra]

Are we going to get a solid commitment from LMG that they will do better in the future? Or are we watching LMG turn into the NVidia of YouTube tech channels?

[BustinJustin]

18 hours ago, rcmaehl said:

You mean you don't drag youtube videos into VLC to skip ads and have more control over the video?

What is this wizardry?

[Error 52]

5 minutes ago, JiRoDev said:

Many instances beyond what Gamers Nexus pointed out can be easily spotted like in M1 Max's review LTT resorted to Dolphin Emulator (using OpenGL which is deprecated on MacOS for like 5 years now) as if they couldn't find any properly optimized test that runs on the Metal API (3D Mark wild life extreme is something that even I can recall on top of my head as a GPU benchmark that supports Metal) to make their out of this world conclusion that the GPU is nowhere near a 3050 laptop, when in fact it is closer to a 3080 laptop when you stop using deprecated APIs like OpenGL and start using Metal API.

Dolphin on MacOS didn't use OpenGL, it used MoltenVK, a translation layer that is slower than native Metal but not by too much. (There's a direct Metal backend now.)

[dogwitch]

3 minutes ago, Polderviking said:

They turned on visitor verification on Cloudflare so my guess is that they are beeing DDoS-ed...

why am i not surpised....

[R.E. Visser]

1 minute ago, filpo said:

Me and @Alex T88 have already posted both the summary of the vid and the full podcast

Right, thanks for pointing that out. 

[RedRound2]

51 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

 

Unfortunately for LMG, LTT, and all of us, that isn't true at all. Several attempts have been made not just by GN Hardware Unboxed and several manufacturers of products whose products were misrepresented accidentally in their respected videos. GN pointed out a fair few number of the attempts to show LMG that their data wasn't accurate in the video.

Alright, could you show some examples where Linus ignored critical feedback? If what you claim in indeed true and Linus was definitely trying to brush away constructive criticism, then yes I will support you. But you should also demonstrate intention, because a lot of the clips from WAN show are people misinterpreting his point of view (is his pov right? not necessarily, but I can see from where he comes)

[filpo]

What the servers at LMG right now are thinking:

 

[ToboRobot]

1 minute ago, RedRound2 said:

Alright, could you show some examples where Linus ignored critical feedback? 

Cue the montage of LMG staff saying they need more time.