Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Cavalry Canuck]

1 minute ago, idiocracy said:

I think you're incorrect. I think GN is doing just fine financially. I think Steve is well aware that his more technical videos attracts a smaller audience. I don't think Steve cares, as long as he gets to do what he thinks is interesting in the way he wants to do it.

At least that's the vibe i'm getting. Having watched both channels for years, LTT caters to a younger, much younger audience, i skip quite a few of his videos as they're too childish for me. GN caters to a more technical, mature audience, and some of the in-depth PSU videos can put me to sleep, so i typically skip those.

 

When Linus talked about how he would be unbiased in laptop reviews, i believed him. But i also understand why GN raises that as a concern, as that is a valid point. I still think Linus is capable of doing the laptop reviews, but the concern is valid regardless.

That’s not the vibe I get. Listen to him talk about the pull Linus has with YouTube, be it the better reps, video editing, etc. To me he sounds very envious. 

 

I wish he weren’t. I wish he were the way you’re suggesting. But I don’t see it. If anything, I understand why. GN deserves a hell of a lot more clout than it currently has.

[ice_hiboy]

1 minute ago, Lyre said:

Not that I think that this would work, seeing that us fans look at most of what they do using rose tinted glasses, but sense the dislike button has gone away its been hard for me to confidently comment something along the lines of "This video was bad because..." difficult because I don't know if I'm an outlier and Ive had times in the past where I've posted grievances online to get doxed by fan boys (Not LTT Related) just something that scares me. I think there should be a more transparent rating system either self imposed or otherwise

I feel the same way. The only time I remember actually voicing my disgust with a video, was the infamous blackout build. I really hated that video, and so did most people it seems.

[amphobius]

I felt like the video hits on a lot of great key points that are well known anyway, there's nothing really objectionable from Steve's end here.

 

I do feel like there is a warranted rebuttal - or at the very least, a dedicated, scripted response that isn't just Linus flying off the seat of his pants on the WAN Show.

 

At large I feel like quality control has slipped significantly over the past 24 months and the points raised about errors are quite concerning. I also understand from the position of budget that reshoots or retakes isn't feasible, or sometimes impossible in some shoots, but if they're being caught in the edit, they should be caught in the script writing - you can't blame hosts for saying it wrong if the information they're being given is wrong. It's apparent of a crunch culture within the company that's been publicised by LMG itself.

 

The Billet Labs copper cooler situation is downright unacceptable and needs its own dedicated response, preferably sooner than later. Above everything else, which is merely just issues with journalism and subconscious biases -- something I could live with, even if it's bad for the industry as a whole -- auctioning off a prototype cooler that's now stalled the company's actual development of future products is beyond problematic, it's literally criminal. At the very best, it's a massive breakdown in communication within the company - something else that's been touched on in the video - but even that doesn't come close to excusing what can only be described as the biggest fuck up LMG has ever made.

[post_screen]

No part of this controversy was addressed as it should be. LTT has gotten too big at this point. Call me a casual, but it was probably my first time seeing the guys that helped in the last AMD Tech Upgrade. It's no wonder that things slip through the cracks. It would make sense that having more employees should give you more opportunities to check every step of your work, but it doesn't seem to be the case. I wonder how they are going to address it because going for quantity over quality like this is going to undo everything that labs are meant to be and ruin LTT's reputation 

[Skipple]

1 minute ago, Asbo Zapruder said:

A good employer, at worst, doesn't care about unions, and at best encourages his employees to join one because it ensures that any problems or issues are worked out before they become serious.

I have never heard of an employer that encourages their staff to unionize. Unions, for better or for worse, will always be a roadblock for a business. 

[Kronoton]

6 minutes ago, idiocracy said:

When Linus talked about how he would be unbiased in laptop reviews, i believed him.

 

Linus/LTT laptop review are biased and would still be biased if he hadn't invested in FrameWork.

 

He (like most of us) live in a geek bubble that is quite insulated from what the general public expects from a tech item or how they would use it in the real world.

[yoichi_nasu]

1 minute ago, Asbo Zapruder said:

For me the biggest red flag when it comes to Linus wasn't the backpack warranty, but his attitude towards unions

He has a lot of opinions like this. Whenever someone criticizes a video, posts a negative comment, disagrees with something he did, he takes it so personally almost as a personal attack on his ego and it's suddenly all about him. I remember during the "Trust Me Bro" debacle, Luke had to butt in more times than I think he would have liked to, that it's not a personal thing and it's not that the community hates him and his person specifically. He just doesn't get that people can criticize actions and opinions without completely despising the owner of those actions/opinions.

[A_Mediocre_Kangaroo_Farmer]

2 minutes ago, jooroth18 said:

I remember when LTT would have videos reviewed by the writers, then by managment, then get pubished. It seems as this practice is gone.

Maybe Edzel is unable to watch, fact check and rebounce 25+ videos in his work week.

[Zato80]

I trust GN because Steve calls

out everyone and anyone …… personal relationships or sponsors be damned.

 

I like Linus and have watched since NCIX days, I even bought the screwdriver even though postage was really expensive. The quality has dropped and it can’t be denied, as Steve says it’s something that can be easy remedied, more time and care is needed. That would fix issues related to sloppy results being reported to embarrassing things like the mouse.

 

The billet labs thing has actually made me question Linus, wilfully doing things wrong, berating the company and the product because of results due to LMG testing it wrong, doubling down on them being wrong and not wanting to spend the money to fix it, not sending the prototype back and the.auctioning it off after being asked to return it seems to go way beyond “sloppiness” it actually seems to be wilful behaviour.

 

As a one time small business man and creator I expected Linus to look out for fellow people coming from the same place. 

[A_Mediocre_Kangaroo_Farmer]

1 minute ago, Kronoton said:

 

Linus/LTT laptop review are biased and would still be biased if he hadn't invested in FrameWork.

 

He (like most of us) live in a geek bubble that is quite insulated from what the general public expects from a tech item or how they would use it in the real world.

That's a completely different kind of bias

[VicBar]

1 hour ago, ice_hiboy said:

I dont think there is any bad blood or anything but Steve was not a LTX so maybe not on the best of terms?

I think he knew this video was coming and didn't have the stomach to go to a tech event and have a good time with everybody, then go back to work and publish such a harsh "objective" video. (nothing is 'objective' but they try harder than anyone)

 

Also maybe they couldn't afford to take those days off, or in general didn't feel like going and making content of a vloggy nature to justify the cost of going (time), etc... one of a million possible reason.

 

I don't recall tho... have they gone to any previous LTX? I think so.... right?

[Cavalry Canuck]

1 minute ago, post_screen said:

No part of this controversy was addressed as it should be. LTT has gotten too big at this point. Call me a casual, but it was probably my first time seeing the guys that helped in the last AMD Tech Upgrade. It's no wonder that things slip through the cracks. It would make sense that having more employees should give you more opportunities to check every step of your work, but it doesn't seem to be the case. I wonder how they are going to address it because going for quantity over quality like this is going to undo everything that labs are meant to be and ruin LTT's reputation 

There was a WAN show late this winter where they talked about the diminishing returns of growing more. Eventually, things start going in the other direction. LMG is what it is because of a few people that firmly had their hands on the controls from start to finish. They don’t have that now, and they never will again unless they undergo a dramatic re-org or downsizing.

[yoichi_nasu]

3 minutes ago, Cavalry Canuck said:

That’s not the vibe I get. Listen to him talk about the pull Linus has with YouTube, be it the better reps, video editing, etc. To me he sounds very envious. 

 

I wish he weren’t. I wish he were the way you’re suggesting. But I don’t see it. If anything, I understand why. GN deserves a hell of a lot more clout than it currently has.

I think he's pushing the message that LMG is not a small creator like GN or HUB anymore. They have a lot more pull with YouTube and other corporations because they have such a large following and as such they also deserve to be called out when they make mistakes just like you would with any other corporation. Linus himself has said many times that "LMG is a corporation" and then later say  "Corporations are not your friend"

[Skipple]

9 minutes ago, Kronoton said:

Linus/LTT laptop review are biased and would still be biased if he hadn't invested in FrameWork.

 

He (like most of us) live in a geek bubble that is quite insulated from what the general public expects from a tech item or how they would use it in the real world.

Having an inherent bias towards something is different than being biased due to a financial motive. 

[Rau]

3 minutes ago, Skipple said:

I have never heard of an employer that encourages their staff to unionize. Unions, for better or for worse, will always be a roadblock for a business. 

Exactly, also a bit worrying that this is now moved on from review accuracy and ethics to just "let's have a pop at Linus for any old stuff".

 

[Timoran Synkral]

I agree with most of what Steve said in his video. But it rings hollow to me that he dunks on LTT for taking sponsorship from Asus and for investing in Framework meanwhile reviewing laptops for other brands. Steve often runs baked-in ads on his own content for product categories he reviews. He's very clear that he has to test the product and believe it's good before he accepts ads featuring that product, and I believe him (I would assume LTT does this too). But despite running ads for cases like the Lian Li O11D, he doesn't exactly rub it in your face that that type of sponsorship exists on all of his case review videos. And even though I've never seen him run an ad for a case on the same video as a case review, by the logic Steve is projecting onto LTT, it's already a conflict of interest for him to review cases at all or to not disclose it up front in every case review. I'm not actually arguing that how GN does this is a problem, I think the way Steve does it is pretty okay and is on the same level as LTT reviewing laptops from brands other than Framework. It would be better if GN only took sponsor deals from product segments he does not review, e.g. mice and keyboards, and even better still if he didn't accept deals from brands that overlap products he reviews, e.g. no Asus, MSI, Dell, Noctua, etc. brand deals for keyboards and mice. But being that strict isn't very realistic when it comes to paying the bills, and GN is probably nowhere near LTT being able to literally give brands the middle finger thanks to their own store sales. Still, it's really hypocritical for Steve to take shots at LTT for this.

 

I'm also not totally on board with the remark that the WAN show reaction to Asus's beta BIOS situation was soft. On that WAN show they did get a response, although only in private, and I feel like they handled it the same way they would have if Asus wasn't a sponsor of LTX. It's super lame that Asus didn't provide that same response to GN, but I don't find fault with Linus here. I agree with everyone who said they softballed Asus on the sponsor secret shopper video though. When Dell did similar stuff, Linus was a lot harder on Dell.

[Doddilus]

The Billet Labs Water Block Auction is BIG news. There is potential legal action there if true.

 

However its 30 minutes of LTT is inaccurate /misleading followed by "Billet Labs said" and then no comment from LMG. Did Steve reach out about this before publishing?

[jooroth18]

1 minute ago, FadedSpark said:

Wilfully inaccurate, not purposefully. They could fix these issues, and the employee interviews are all but begging for more time to make the content better, but the company culture is permanent crunch. It didn't used to be that way, and all of us old heads know when ltt was a strictly reliable source. Maybe not the most in depth but the info you got was good, if occasionally lacking depth.

 

I've been reading the thread trying to see what the community vibe is like right now and yours have stuck out a ton. You're getting a little hot, and it feels like you're almost taking it personally because you love ltt.

 

You should be equally upset that this company that you value for one reason or another has betrayed your trust and devotion for money. Either to spend less, or to make more, it boils down to dollars and cents. Yours, in fact. Money from sponsorships, merch, events.

 

The journalistic integrity of ltt is at an all time low. Hopefully this is a turning point, and if not, I do in fact know where the unsub button is.

 

 

Being an LTT viewer for 8 years now, the amount of corrections made after the fact has been alarming. I remember when they used to cut the video and insert a clip correcting mistakes, even for comedic videos, like the ONN TV video, and i was fine with that. Nowadays, using asterisks or pinned comments on big videos like GPU reviews is just bad.

 

You cant look me straight in the eye and say this is okay.

 

Honestly, it hurt me inside to watch the GN video. It really did, as im a big fan and have a ton of merch. But i cant let emotions or feelings change facts. When GN did the video on TMB and the backpack, i thought it was a bit harsh and didnt consider the human element. But this video is daming on a level that i just cant make excuses for.

[RasmusDC]

3 minutes ago, Skipple said:

I have never heard of an employer that encourages their staff to unionize. Unions, for better or for worse, will always be a roadblock for a business. 

Unions are good for employees, they are bad for Employers, although the learning her in Denmark at least, is good collaboration and respect for unions, is actually what creates a PROPER work enviroment. the ability for the small single voice of an employee to have HARD impact for a company because a union, stops more shit that you actually would believe .. also here. 

 

Do i like Unions, not really, because they are also now BIG corps, with large sums of money, with leders making big money to be part of them. but i respect especially here, what they have done for the working force.

 

And also that they are one of the voices now in these times with hyper inflation, that has actually kept companies a bit at BAY with . focus on BIG earnings in companies, without at least making staff follow the Curve... 

 

So no maybe not the best for an employee, but if you do want to focus on the best for your employers, and you do respect them. it is not bad.

 

it is a foundation of actual collaboration, more than a fight.

[Lyre]

5 minutes ago, post_screen said:

they are going to address it because going for quantity over quality like this is going to undo everything that labs are meant to be and ruin LTT's reputation 

I Agree 100% about this, you need your earliest data to be as accurate as possible to build rapport

[Middcore]

5 minutes ago, A_Mediocre_Kangaroo_Farmer said:

That's a completely different kind of bias

 

It's just... having a personal perspective. Anybody who does a review has one. It's true that Linus's perspective might not align with what the majority of laptop buyers are looking for in a way that makes his reviews useful to them, but it isn't what I would call bias.

 

In any review of any product you read, you have to judge how well the reviewer's tastes and needs that form the lens they're looking at the product through line up with your own and then decide how much weight to give to their conclusions.

[Vishera]

I have never considered LTT as a reliable source of information,

Mistakes occur too often,

LTT are better off releasing entertaining videos than informative ones, because they often fail with the informative part.

[Blademaster91]

52 minutes ago, Cavalry Canuck said:

That’s not the vibe I get. Listen to him talk about the pull Linus has with YouTube, be it the better reps, video editing, etc. To me he sounds very envious. 

 

I wish he weren’t. I wish he were the way you’re suggesting. But I don’t see it. If anything, I understand why. GN deserves a hell of a lot more clout than it currently has.

Well I think most tech youtubers would be envious of the treatment LTT gets from youtube, the channel got hacked and it was back up within a few hours, when anyone else gets hacked or loses their channel they don't have a personal rep to talk to or get no help at all.

Although I don't think this video is out of jealousy at all, GN calls out companies all the time in reviews, Steve has called out LTT before with the backpack warranty, when he calls out a company for doing something bad it's telling them to do better, and advice on how to do better.

[Lyre]

6 minutes ago, Kronoton said:

 

Linus/LTT laptop review are biased and would still be biased if he hadn't invested in FrameWork.

 

He (like most of us) live in a geek bubble that is quite insulated from what the general public expects from a tech item or how they would use it in the real world.

Nothing is Unbiased the reason people go to reviewers however, is that their bias tends to be informed with a large catalog of other reviews to reference.

[Kronoton]

3 minutes ago, A_Mediocre_Kangaroo_Farmer said:

That's a completely different kind of bias

 

2 minutes ago, Skipple said:

Having an inherent bias towards something is different that being biased due to a financial motive.

 

Even more reason NOT to invest into something you claim to investigate (report on).