Explain like i'm 5 what a bunch of chilren on reddit think they'll achieve with this group tantrum?

[redditrefugee1]

19 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

So you agree that Reddit is the sole owner and source of Reddit's IP and therefore any 3rd parties who want to use that IP must pay the fee decided by Reddit for the access to their API? 

I agree we can leave if and when we find their demands unreasonable and arbitrary we can leave... and many have. 

 

If you can screw Peter today... you can screw Paul tomorrow. So it's better it be dead then to continue to support something that is no longer being respectful of it's consumers. We can find other sites and other resources and make them better. 

 

That's the power of informed and responsive consumers. 

[ToboRobot]

4 minutes ago, redditrefugee1 said:

Yeah I think you're projecting here. People deal with a lot of terrible things in their lives. Some have gone to war, others have gone through cancer, lost a child, dealt with a disability, been the subject of horrible abuse... the number of terrible things that people go through can't be dismissed as "lacking real adversity"

 

 

 

People that have gone to war aren't complain about Reddit API issues. 

People going through cancer don't care either.

Losing a child isn't like losing access to Reddit.

I think people complaining about the Reddit API issue, probably aren't starving to death or worries about drones dropping bombs. 

Compared to people currently living and dying in war zones, the problem of Reddit API access isn't a real problem.

I think people are bored and living pointless hopeless lives of convenience and luxury, and stirring up controversies is a symptom of lacking real adversity in life.

I bet if you had to go find a patch of dirt and start growing crops to feed yourself and cutting down trees to build a house, suddenly the reddit api issue would be totally irrelevant.

[ToboRobot]

5 minutes ago, Holmes108 said:

 

This has nothing to do with Reddit.

Because Reddit is a terribly run company they haven't invested in accessibility features and 3rd party app developers have filled that gap, and therefore some people who require accessibility tools (screen readers for the blind for example) will not have access to reddit when API access is cut off and some people feel this would be a human rights issue. 

Thats what it has to do with reddit.

[Mr. Rabbit]

Honestly, accepting bulls*it like this is what made the internet progressively worse over the years.
It's always "it's a tiny change, it's for the best" and we bend over and take it.

 

Maybe the mistake was letting half-a-dozen companies take over everything and centralizing content there.

[Rex Hite]

Reddit's value, measured any way we like, is overstated. Right now Reddit's board has to find ways to maintain their particular fiction of value.

 

[redditrefugee1]

19 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Exactly what rights are they taking from you?

This isn't like "rights" in the classical governmental sense. No one is throwing anyone in jail, or telling me which drinking fountain to use. 

 

But... 

 

Customers have a right to a degree of fairness, and transparency, and especially in a business model like reddit, where respect for the community and empowering them is what made their site run in the first place.

 

If Reddit believes they don't then they will lose a lot of people that expect them to be fair and somewhat open with changes. 

 

If Reddit is going to make arbitrary changes well outside the norm, whenever they want, without any input from the communities that make them function, ... it's perfectly acceptable for people to take their ball and go home. 

 

Sorry if my response was a bit hyperbolic, I'm a bit hyped up today. It's a new day. 

[Blademaster91]

14 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

People that have gone to war aren't complain about Reddit API issues. 

People going through cancer don't care either.

Losing a child isn't like losing access to Reddit.

I think people complaining about the Reddit API issue, probably aren't starving to death or worries about drones dropping bombs. 

Compared to people currently living and dying in war zones, the problem of Reddit API access isn't a real problem.

I think people are bored and living pointless hopeless lives of convenience and luxury, and stirring up controversies is a symptom of lacking real adversity in life.

I bet if you had to go find a patch of dirt and start growing crops to feed yourself and cutting down trees to build a house, suddenly the reddit api issue would be totally irrelevant.

I agree, and I think reddit has become too much of a convenience, so much so it has killed off a lot of forums, which IMO is a much better way of having a decent discussion, and is a better way of having information available if someone wants to search for help instead of having to make a new post, or having to scroll through a mess of grouped replies to find an answer.

The overblown drama is what I really dislike about this whole reddit protest, yes I think what reddit wants to charge for the API is way too much, but complaining about it isn't going to do anything, people need to get together and move elsewhere if they don't like it.

[redditrefugee1]

11 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

I think people are bored and living pointless hopeless lives of convenience and luxury....

Well thankfully your opinion is just that. 

 

I'm sure a lot of people are doing the best they can and dealing with things that you don't understand, and making blanket judgements about people you don't know is a terrible way to go through life. 

 

The best thing you can do, is reserve your judgment and just take people as they are, not as you think they are. 

 

But hey, that's just being open minded, can't force you to be that now can we? 

[Holmes108]

17 minutes ago, redditrefugee1 said:

....If Reddit is going to make arbitrary changes well outside the norm, whenever they want, without any input from the communities that make them function, ... it's perfectly acceptable for people to take their ball and go home. 

 

Sorry if my response was a bit hyperbolic, I'm a bit hyped up today. It's a new day. 

 

On this, we can 100% agree. I think the new pricing is ludicrous. So crazy in fact, that I can only surmise that they don't expect people to pay, and want to indirectly kill off 3rd party access. And I suppose that's their right.

 

Perhaps, if they stick to their guns, this will be a bad business decision and the downfall of Reddit. That's not something I'm rooting for. But it could happen, and so be it. It's also entirely possible it'll remain huge, even with the changes. Hard to say.

 

I just tend to take issue when people try and bring things like "morals" into a discussion like this, because I don't personally think that it applies. But to each their own. We can't all always agree on if something is right and just, or if it just.... "is".

 

I tend to agree with Caroline's view of Reddit, largely. There are many helpful, non-toxic subreddits, but I feel do like they're the minority. But I am able to find them and access them, so I find the site useful. I hope it stays around, and stays useful though.

 

[Holmes108]

6 minutes ago, redditrefugee1 said:

 

The best thing you can do, is reserve your judgment and just take people as they are, not as you think they are. 

 

But hey, that's just being open minded, can't force you to be that now can we? 

 

Oh, I think people on both sides could be doing a better job of that.

[redditrefugee1]

10 minutes ago, Caroline said:

I then read about the shitshow going on with the admin, the bot accounts, the neckbeard incels, pedo controversies, misogyny, racism, doxxing, and so on, what makes reddit be reddit so to speak.

 

In comparison, the good content here or in any other mildly serious forum is the majority.

There were plenty of diverse and open and positive communities on Reddit, I'm sorry that you had a negative experience.

 

The internet itself can be extremely toxic and any site that is that large is going to have it's ugly parts. There is no utopian site, and I would be afraid of any place that tried to sell you that idea. 

 

It had some pretty amazing and cool people who were part of it, and some really great communities that were inclusive and fun. I'm sorry that all you saw were the worst bits, and that ruined it as a whole for you. 

 

But for many of us, the site was a real place of community, and was a place to go for all sorts of good information and help. I will miss it. 

[IkeaGnome]

27 minutes ago, redditrefugee1 said:

This isn't like "rights" in the classical governmental sense. No one is throwing anyone in jail, or telling me which drinking fountain to use. 

 

But... 

I was really hoping you weren't going to claim free speech or any of that there.

27 minutes ago, redditrefugee1 said:

Customers have a right to a degree of fairness, and transparency, and especially in a business model like reddit, where respect for the community and empowering them is what made their site run in the first place.

 

If Reddit believes they don't then they will lose a lot of people that expect them to be fair and somewhat open with changes. 

This is where we are going to start agreeing on some things and disagreeing with others. Both "sides" are correct on some points, and both are wrong on some points. Just to make it very clear my stance on this so it doesn't get spun around later. Reddit and the strikers are both wrong and both right. Yes, that can happen.

 

Keeping "All reddit toxic" out of this. I'm also going to quote "right" because it's the best word, but as a reminder we aren't using it in the governments rights sense.

 

Just like you have a "right" to a degree of fairness and transparency, so does the business. The CEO or what ever it's called at Reddit, head mod in charge?, has an obligation to the company to make it grow. 3rd party apps take away from ad revenue for Reddit. If the rumors are true, and Reddit wants to go public, doesn't it make sense to take a profitable company public over one that doesn't profit? If you're getting ready to go public, wouldn't it make sense to go through with these changes now before it would effect stock prices? If the company goes public, there is now a legal obligation to do the best for the company. If they went public, and 6 months down the line made these changes and someone said "wait a minute, why are we doing this now, and why is it being handled this way. We are losing money" there can be prison time and fines involved. 

 

Now, just like a company has a "right" to profit and make money if a company is built on fairness and transparency, you have a "right" to that. If there is an industry standard pricing, then it would make sense for the company to go with that, and I understand the upset around that. 

27 minutes ago, redditrefugee1 said:

If Reddit is going to make arbitrary changes well outside the norm, whenever they want, without any input from the communities that make them function, ... it's perfectly acceptable for people to take their ball and go home. 

Agreed. However demanding access to continue to be free and how it has been for years, as a lot of the people behind this "strike" have been, is a bit like demanding eternal life. It's simply not sustainable. Reddit was started in the tech bubble, and expanded around the "hot time" where everyone was investing in every tech company that they could. That bubble has popped. Tech companies are feeling the strain, and unfortunately, that strain either gets passed onto the user or that company gets left behind. EVGA's graphics card division is a great example of that, all be it for slightly different reasons. 

 

Reddit has the "right" to be compensated for their work, and using third party apps to access that content is (arguably because of ads) a form of piracy. They have a "right" to stop that from happening no matter the reason. Yes, they should give better tools to moderators. Yes their app is archaic as hell and could be updated. This might just be the push to make those changes happen. 

27 minutes ago, redditrefugee1 said:

Sorry if my response was a bit hyperbolic, I'm a bit hyped up today. It's a new day. 

A bit of fair warning for this site in particular. What you say is taken at face value. If you say something is fact, someone will ask you for sources to back that up. 

 

I understand being hyped up, but if you're hyped up to the point of saying that what Reddit is doing is the equivalent of the things you listed before, then it might be time for a breather. Go outside, get some fresh air. I don't mean that in a "you don't touch grass way", I mean that in "fresh air and going for a walk helps just about everyone calm down." I do hope you see why some users have reacted the way they have to some of what you said. In all honesty, my first thoughts to some of what you said were along the lines of "stereotypical Reddit user."

 

Just like I can break myself from thinking that's true you can break yourself from making that peoples' first impressions of you. 

 

Edit: I really hope you don't take any of that as me attacking you personally. Just as the views of someone from the outside looking in.

Edited June 14, 2023 by IkeaGnome
Wasn't quite happy with how I ended that.

[rcmaehl]

Reddit is allowed to be their dictatorship/monarchy (depending on your viewpoint)

Subreddits are allowed to stand in solidarity of fellow users in support of a cause until Reddit acts upon them (and they will per their "active moderation" policy)

 

This is activism.

 

Is the cause silly? Absolutely.

Does the cause have some valid points? Absolutely.

Does reddit have to give into demands? No. 

Do users have to stay on the site when reddit doesn't? No.

 

The demographic protesting this is likely the "power users" of the site and, if so, I honestly think the quality of reddit will diminish without concessions. Starting a slow roll downhill just like tumblr has been. Reddit won't "die" anytime soon just like tumblr hasn't, but it's not going to stay the same.

[redditrefugee1]

47 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

People that have gone to war aren't complain about Reddit API issues. 

People going through cancer don't care either.

Losing a child isn't like losing access to Reddit.

I think people complaining about the Reddit API issue, probably aren't starving to death or worries about drones dropping bombs. 

Compared to people currently living and dying in war zones, the problem of Reddit API access isn't a real problem.

I think people are bored and living pointless hopeless lives of convenience and luxury, and stirring up controversies is a symptom of lacking real adversity in life.

I bet if you had to go find a patch of dirt and start growing crops to feed yourself and cutting down trees to build a house, suddenly the reddit api issue would be totally irrelevant.

You have no idea what the people behind this walk out/protest are going through... and whats important to them. 

 

Thats my point about not judging the priorities of the people who are behind this. The people who were on reddit have gone through things just like you, I've been on AMA's with people dealing horrifying things, things you can't even imagine, but they felt this protest was important and they walked away. These are folks who feel Reddit saved their lives. they will tell you they found a community, dealt with things that most of us will never have to go through...  Who are you to tell them what is and isn't important in their lives? 

 

You can feel however you want to feel. But let people make their judgements on what is important to them, and don't act like you know what they are dealing with and how they should respond. 

 

You don't know them...and if it's important to them, people have every right to protest in whatever legal way is available to them. 

 

 

[redditrefugee1]

25 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

I was really hoping you weren't going to claim free speech or any of that there.

This is where we are going to start agreeing on some things and disagreeing with others. Both "sides" are correct on some points, and both are wrong on some points. Just to make it very clear my stance on this so it doesn't get spun around later. Reddit and the strikers are both wrong and both right. Yes, that can happen.

 

Keeping "All reddit toxic" out of this. I'm also going to quote "right" because it's the best word, but as a reminder we aren't using it in the governments rights sense.

 

Just like you have a "right" to a degree of fairness and transparency, so does the business. The CEO or what ever it's called at Reddit, head mod in charge?, has an obligation to the company to make it grow. 3rd party apps take away from ad revenue for Reddit. If the rumors are true, and Reddit wants to go public, doesn't it make sense to take a profitable company public over one that doesn't profit? If you're getting ready to go public, wouldn't it make sense to go through with these changes now before it would effect stock prices? If the company goes public, there is now a legal obligation to do the best for the company. If they went public, and 6 months down the line made these changes and someone said "wait a minute, why are we doing this now, and why is it being handled this way. We are losing money" there can be prison time and fines involved. 

 

Now, just like a company has a "right" to profit and make money if a company is built on fairness and transparency, you have a "right" to that. If there is an industry standard pricing, then it would make sense for the company to go with that, and I understand the upset around that. 

Agreed. However demanding access to continue to be free and how it has been for years, as a lot of the people behind this "strike" have been, is a bit like demanding eternal life. It's simply not sustainable. Reddit was started in the tech bubble, and expanded around the "hot time" where everyone was investing in every tech company that they could. That bubble has popped. Tech companies are feeling the strain, and unfortunately, that strain either gets passed onto the user or that company gets left behind. EVGA's graphics card division is a great example of that, all be it for slightly different reasons. 

 

Reddit has the "right" to be compensated for their work, and using third party apps to access that content is (arguably because of ads) a form of piracy. They have a "right" to stop that from happening no matter the reason. Yes, they should give better tools to moderators. Yes their app is archaic as hell and could be updated. This might just be the push to make those changes happen. 

A bit of fair warning for this site in particular. What you say is taken at face value. If you say something is fact, someone will ask you for sources to back that up. 

 

I understand being hyped up, but if you're hyped up to the point of saying that what Reddit is doing is the equivalent of the things you listed before, then it might be time for a breather. Go outside, get some fresh air. I don't mean that in a "you don't touch grass way", I mean that in "fresh air and going for a walk helps just about everyone calm down." I do hope you see why some users have reacted the way they have to some of what you said. In all honesty, my first thoughts to some of what you said were along the lines of "stereotypical Reddit user."

 

Just like I can break myself from thinking that's true you can break yourself from making that peoples' first impressions of you. 

 

Edit: I really hope you don't take any of that as me attacking you personally. Just as the views of someone from the outside looking in.

I'm good, trust me, you don't exist in any on-line space without developing a pretty thick skin. 

 

I will take the judgement of being an average Reddit user. To me that's not a bad assessment, because I've met some terrible redditors and some really awesome ones. 

 

I'm more then willing to take my time and spell out my resources and my reasoning. I'll even admit on occasion when I've taken an argument too far. Today I'm kinda mourning it's loss. It's dying, and it's for the best. 

 

Just a regular reddit user... I will take it as a badge of honor, because that place was pretty awesome to me, and I met some really great people and argued, debated, and swapped tips with most of them. 

 

I will miss it. But that's life, somethings come, somethings go, and we roll with the punches. 

[Forbidden Wafer]

Nice little site to keep track of forums set as private. https://reddark.untone.uk/

[ToboRobot]

1 hour ago, redditrefugee1 said:

You have no idea what the people behind this walk out/protest are going through... and whats important to them.

 

Who made you their spokesperson?

[IkeaGnome]

2 hours ago, redditrefugee1 said:

I will take the judgement of being an average Reddit user. To me that's not a bad assessment, because I've met some terrible redditors and some really awesome ones. 

Sorry, but I said stereotypical, not average. Just like when I said "A lot of people behind the strike" and not "you" that was on purpose. 

2 hours ago, redditrefugee1 said:

I'm more then willing to take my time and spell out my resources and my reasoning. I'll even admit on occasion when I've taken an argument too far. Today I'm kinda mourning it's loss. It's dying, and it's for the best. 

While I am sorry for your loss, the grass is always greener. 

 

2 hours ago, redditrefugee1 said:

Just a regular reddit user... I will take it as a badge of honor, because that place was pretty awesome to me, and I met some really great people and argued, debated, and swapped tips with most of them. 

Something to keep in mind here is your experience is not everyone else's experience and in this thread when people share bad stories of reddit you're borderline dismissive. I understand rose coloured glasses and letting them stay on for a bit, but for every person who had a good experience there I'd bet you could find a person who had a bad experience there. In the state of Reddit a month ago, they could not be taken seriously as a company. They've had to make changes for what ever reason to be more inline with other companies. They've been overly heavy handed about it, but it looks like that's their new model. 

[Thaldor]

2 hours ago, ToboRobot said:

People that have gone to war aren't complain about Reddit API issues. 

People going through cancer don't care either.

Losing a child isn't like losing access to Reddit.

I think people complaining about the Reddit API issue, probably aren't starving to death or worries about drones dropping bombs. 

Compared to people currently living and dying in war zones, the problem of Reddit API access isn't a real problem.

I think people are bored and living pointless hopeless lives of convenience and luxury, and stirring up controversies is a symptom of lacking real adversity in life.

I bet if you had to go find a patch of dirt and start growing crops to feed yourself and cutting down trees to build a house, suddenly the reddit api issue would be totally irrelevant.

And you are here complaining about not getting access to some subreddits right here and right now. Are you any better?

 

Like if you need help with something you are completely free to go to public library and read a book,m figure it out yourself or find the solution elsewhere, maybe pay some helpdesk or something. If you need to talk with someone there's way too many platforms for that so complaining about some subreddit going private is pretty damn stupid.

 

You know kids in Africa are still starving and here are you complaining that people put their work behind joining button so you cannot access it without registering and pressing said button. Like imaging needing to walk 10km to a place where there either is or isn't water today just to get drinking water and you cannot even register and press that joining button, oh lord, how much the world demands from you.

 

At least the Reddit moderators have a reason to complain and that is that the Reddit mobile app is pure garbage and the tens of billions in dollars valued company has 0 interest to fix their garbage. You on the other hand complain about someone else complaining which causes some inconvenience for you and already skipped the ship to complain somewhere else.

[Strobel]

It's an example of how far their real intellect goes, and Reddit is already a dumpster fire, let it burn.

[Strobel]

3 hours ago, redditrefugee1 said:

There were plenty of diverse and open and positive communities on Reddit, I'm sorry that you had a negative experience.

 

The internet itself can be extremely toxic and any site that is that large is going to have it's ugly parts. There is no utopian site, and I would be afraid of any place that tried to sell you that idea. 

 

It had some pretty amazing and cool people who were part of it, and some really great communities that were inclusive and fun. I'm sorry that all you saw were the worst bits, and that ruined it as a whole for you. 

 

But for many of us, the site was a real place of community, and was a place to go for all sorts of good information and help. I will miss it. 

I signed up to Reddit after the fact the guy who founded the place took his own life.

I have never seen this sunny side of Reddit you talk about and over time it got worse and worse.

Rules destroy any kind of relevant discussion, it is all controlled hive mind.

People have no respect for each other and hate anything that is slightly different to their opinion.

New accounts get nowhere and are forever stuck in limbo as nearly all posts they make are auto modded and removed. The karma system holds people mentally hostage.

 

The average age is mid twenties, so no development of the prefrontal cortex yet and very few actual intelligent people on there.

 

From Reddit:

 

That's 8 years ago, now it is far more politically motivated, arrogant, racially divided, mind set divided to the point everything is now pretty much seen as left because all the loud mouths literally have a seizure if someone dares have a slightly different opinion.

 

Filled with SJW's, idiots, a terrible karma system which does way more harm than good, mentally unchallenged narrative and way too much politics.

 

Then there are the very few times you get through, it was never worth the time.

 

This is 2 years ago.

 

Think harder, the people who are of normal character pointed it out and left, now you understand why it's a hive mind, it's full of a certain demographic and barely anything else.

 

[Strobel]

4 hours ago, redditrefugee1 said:

Yeah I think you're projecting here. People deal with a lot of terrible things in their lives. Some have gone to war, others have gone through cancer, lost a child, dealt with a disability, been the subject of horrible abuse... the number of terrible things that people go through can't be dismissed as "lacking real adversity"

 

Are all things on the same scale? Of course not. But there are at times important principals that people should stand up for and not accept lesser standards. Where that line is differs for everyone, but you can't just say "this isn't important" because you feel you aren't being impacted. Fairness and transparency are important principles. In this recent situation, Reddit's owners have shown that both are lacking. 

 

You can't change much in this life. But you can, on occasion, make a difference in a small yet important way. No one said you have to go all MLK any time you see injustice. But taking a reasonable stand? Like not buying a product, or not giving a company or politician your support? That's just basic "do the right thing". 

 

I hope you are on the pay roll as this is a lot of word salad for a company you seemingly don't work for.

 

Also you just used things to pump up your own side without showing any factual evidence, a non intelligent move almost all the average Reddit user does (You will listen to me :Insert story irrelevant to the discussion: to manipulate the other emotionally, then pull out the victory medal and pretend you are virtuous.]. Then when countered with irrefutable argument or even counter-evidence they go to the help section and report you.

 

Here is a revelation, why do any of you pretend to care? You only care about yourself and self importance, just backing your own voice with no real connection to anything in reality, word salad, emotional garbage, anger, narcissism, mentally ill.

 

 

Have a good long read.

 

https://www.girlsaskguys.com/technology-internet/a63564-why-is-reddit-so-absolute-trash-filled-with-absolutely-obnoxious

[Zodiark1593]

On 6/12/2023 at 9:04 PM, Caroline said:

It's not a strike.

You have to be employed in order to have the right to strike, so far being a doritos vacuum and banning users on reddit isn't a real job. Sorry fellas.

This would probably be closer to a Boycott. 

[tdkid]

11 hours ago, MistaHiggins said:

Finally created an account here after leaving my 10+ year reddit account to rot due to their API changes.

 

This thread has been an exceptionally poor first impression of the community that exists here and the tone of conversation between users.

 

 

well to let you know. me and the other person were joking around with each other. it was nothing serious. 

[art12354]

11 hours ago, MistaHiggins said:

Finally created an account here after leaving my 10+ year reddit account to rot due to their API changes.

 

This thread has been an exceptionally poor first impression of the community that exists here and the tone of conversation between users.

 

 

I am also leaving my 10+ year reddit account and I am debating not staying here on LTT forums because of this thread.

 

The tone and content is disheartening to say the least.

 

This makes me sad because I have been watching LTT for over 10 years as well. I was really looking forward to moving my home here.

 

Seems like the community here doesn't want any new comers. I hope this changes, because I know Linus himself would love to offer this as a new home to people to find their community as a replacement to reddit.